Nintendo Switch (Currently Plagued) - Here we shit post about the new Nintendo console, The Switch

[whatever I feel like]

You keep saying stuff like this, but nobody gives a shit. We got xamount of A+ Nintendo games for 3DS, we got y amount of A+ Nintendo games for Switch and that kind of sucks. That's it. I don't care if 3DS had a drought in June 2013 if I was already playing a new Mario, Mario Kart, Mario Bros, Animal Crossing and Zelda by then. This shit isn't hard.

He said it didn't have droughts but it did motherfucker.

 

[Never Scored]

He said it didn't have droughts but it did motherfucker.

He said it was adequately supported and Wii U was the system they had trouble supporting which is 100% true.

 

[Two Dollars]

I could not tell that in the slightest from the marketing. That shit was all over the figures. It was nonstop promoted as a core part of the game and from the footage I saw I assumed that was how you played at all. My bad.

Looking back, maybe it was testing the waters for amiibo? In game, it's basically treated as a proof-of-concept, with only 20 or 30 of the ~650 Pokemon getting figures.

This is news to me, can you post some examples? I know for sure that past games didn't have anywhere near the quantity that Robobot had, at least from my memory.

From hitting CTRL+F "remix" on the thankfully-detailed Kirby wiki shows that counting partial remixes and removing short jingles (I had to do some manual counting on these so I may be slightly off), RtDL (original) had 20 remixes (16 if you remove invincibility + subgames), Triple Deluxe had 20 (13 if you remove Invincibility + subgames, plus there's an unknown number of reused songs as they're not listed in the soundtrack), Robobot had 14 (10 if you remove subgames, though it also had 14 reused songs; keep in mind that Robobot's soundtrack is ~50% bigger than Triple Deluxe's), and Star Allies for good measure had 60-ish(!) plus a ton of reused music, though it also had an absurdly large soundtrack to begin with.

Disagree, the sheer amount of porting and what they chose to port from was very distracting. Canvas Curse has an extremely noticeable soundfont that sounds awful and doesn't fit with Robobot's more orchestral/chiptune sounds in the slightest; it instead uses harsh squeaks and weird shit to sound very obnoxious.
Very, very, very obnoxious.

I don't know what to tell you, I thought Canvas Curse was a great game with a great soundtrack that also fit Robobot's techno theme

Two bosses out of seven...

Two bosses out of 17. Or anywhere between 12(?) and 17 depending on how you classify bosses that are fought one after another. And again, different attack patterns and all that.

 

[Anonitolia]

The tech in a Switch is comparable to the tech in previous Nintendo handhelds when they were released.

stupidest shit i've heard all month

 

[Anonitolia]

(double-posting since it's unrelated and I didn't see Dollars' post when I posted prior)

From hitting CTRL+F "remix" on the thankfully-detailed Kirby wiki shows that counting partial remixes and removing short jingles (I had to do some manual counting on these so I may be slightly off), RtDL (original) had 20 remixes (16 if you remove invincibility + subgames), Triple Deluxe had 20 (13 if you remove Invincibility + subgames, plus there's an unknown number of reused songs as they're not listed in the soundtrack), Robobot had 14 (10 if you remove subgames, though it also had 14 reused songs; keep in mind that Robobot's soundtrack is ~50% bigger than Triple Deluxe's), and Star Allies for good measure had 60-ish(!) plus a ton of reused music, though it also had an absurdly large soundtrack to begin with.

>RtDL had more remixes
this explains things
I didn't notice those because Return was my first Kirby game rip
Subgames and invincibility should absolutely be removed though, they're essentially spin-offs within the confines of a normal game

And that

also had 14 reused songs

part is what really irked me- there were more ports than remixes (+ those ports were often more numerous than previous games' remixes), and those ports were from Canvas Curse and Air Ride most of the time. Already gave my thoughts on that beforehand.
Thinking about it further I think the reuse definitely made the remixes more egregious to me. Even with a soundtrack 1.5x the size of Triple Deluxe's, that amount of reused content made it feel pandering.

Star Allies for good measure had 60-ish(!)

Christ, seriously? I never got that game- it looked redundant when I'd already played the RtDL trilogy and Super Star Ultra- and hearing this kind of makes me glad I didn't lol. No wonder I kept hearing the same music I'd heard before over and over in trailers...

Two bosses out of 17. Or anywhere between 12(?) and 17 depending on how you classify bosses that are fought one after another.

Aaand that's the fault of me not checking my memory before spouting my opinion. Oops.

 

[Never Scored]

stupidest shit i've heard all month

What's stupid about it? It has a quad core arm processor clocked at 1.02 GHz with 4 gig of ram, this is a lower clocked CPU with comparable ram to a budget smartphone from 2017. 3DS also had a dual core arm processor clocked at 268 MHz with 128 megs of ram. So again, a lower clock speed, though granted less ram than a budget smartphone of that era, they usually had 256-512 megs.

The Switch has half the ram of a Playstation 4 which came out five years before. The 3DS had half the ram of the PlayStation 3 which came out four years before, though again granted PS3 was also packing some video ram.

Not a perfect 1:1 comparison, mostly due to the 3DS's lack of ram, but certainly not a stupid one. They were very comparably powered in the context of when they came out.

 

[Two Dollars]

part is what really irked me- there were more ports than remixes (+ those ports were often more numerous than previous games' remixes), and those ports were from Canvas Curse and Air Ride most of the time. Already gave my thoughts on that beforehand.
Thinking about it further I think the reuse definitely made the remixes more egregious to me. Even with a soundtrack 1.5x the size of Triple Deluxe's, that amount of reused content made it feel pandering.

That's fair. Though it brings up the question of what's better: using a new song (that is, the same new song) twice, or using it once and bringing back an old song. Funnily enough, that's exactly what RtDLDX did; there were a few instances where the original used a new song multiple times, but the Switch version uses it once and brings back an old theme instead of repeating it. For example, the title theme for the True Arena originally reused the Dangerous Dinner map theme, but now it uses the Kirby Fighters 2 remix of Dangerous Dinner.

Christ, seriously? I never got that game- it looked redundant when I'd already played the RtDL trilogy and Super Star Ultra- and hearing this kind of makes me glad I didn't lol. No wonder I kept hearing the same music I'd heard before over and over in trailers...

For what it's worth, they're very good remixes. And a lot of them do interesting things like using a medley or combining a remix with a new theme.

 

[Anonitolia]

comparable ram to a budget smartphone from 2017

he said, while trying to refute the stupidity of his statement referring to the tech in previous Nintendo handhelds

Significantly lower clock speed, significantly less storage- these are very important differences and you're obscuring them by moving the goalpost

The 3DS and Switch aren't even remotely comparable in almost any way, you yourself just admitted that, so I don't see why my comment is surprising at all

 

[Never Scored]

The 3DS and Switch aren't even remotely comparable in almost any way, you yourself just admitted that, so I don't see why my comment is surprising at all

They were comparable in terms of what tech existed at the time they were released. Are you literally retarded and think I am directly comparing their specs to each other? Obviously a Switch has more power than a 3DS, but they are similarly speced compared to phones, consoles, etc that existed at the time each was released.

Just look at the original text from my post, which you can go back and see has not been edited:

The tech in a Switch is comparable to the tech in previous Nintendo handhelds when they were released.

That "when they were released" is key here. The specs of Nintendo's handhelds generally place them between the previous generation of home consoles and the generation before that in terms of specs, and Switch is absolutely in line with that trend.

I only brought it up because I think to point at Switch and call it a home console whereas 3DS was a handheld as a way to explain why it has fewer releases is a bit of a cop out. I will grant that increases in graphic fidelity over time has increase development time, though, as I said previously.

 

[NerdShamer]

I really really really hope you're joking

Yeah, it was Island Tour that was the dud.

 

[BananaSplit²]

You're probably reading it wrong. I've been mostly focusing on their first-party products and such, and especially in America (where most of the game-related stuff seems to come from. The Japanese main branch handles music copyright), so I can see that.

The main & japanese branch is handling virtually all the game development though (there are plans to expand the studios further in Kyoto), the sole game project that came out from NoA exclusively in recent years was the Advance Wars 1+2 Reboot (with WayForward) hence why I never bothered with it despite being an old AW fan.

They aren't partnering with Next Level Games anymore; they outright own them now.

My bad. Should have figured it was like with Monolith Soft.

Fire Emblem Fates was a rip-off with a horrible story that I still like fuck you and, as far as I'm aware, is the worst-received title in the series

It's actually the second most popular entry in Japan, but game is quite different compared to the localization fuckery. And I wouldn't take the consensus of americans & anglos for granted.

Switch is a handheld. It runs on phone hardware. They killed their home consoles and gave you the ability to hook the handheld up to a TV. The tech in a Switch is comparable to the tech in previous Nintendo handhelds when they were released.

It's a hybrid though, any user can decide to use it as a home console or portable console depending of the situation. I often alternate between the two sides even if I prioritize the handheld aspect more personally. Not to mention there are games that favor the system to be used more as a home console, and I do have dedicated USB accessories (imported from nipponland) for Taiko no Tatsujin and Densha de Go! on Switch.

I dunno what the last sentence means, but past portable consoles sure couldn't directly compare against their home concurrents, like how the Switch is able to. Especially the Playstation Vita was biting more than it could chew back when it was relegated as the "HD" portable console, as the tech wasn't clearly there yet to properly handle the task (even in niche japanese games - as of personal experience).

It also helps that the gains between generations of home consoles went progressively lower and lower for the portable tech to nicely catch up.

 

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

I'd also argue that their new IP for Switch are trash (ARMS sucks, Pushmo is good) and I'd guess fewer as well.

There are definitely fewer new IP than there've been in the past. I've mentioned this on this site before, but I actually have list where I went back, counted and identified the number of new individual Nintendo IP introduced on each console, along with their names. Note, this list only includes entirely new IP, not any spin-offs and subseries of existing IP. Here is the total number of new IP for the last three generations:

Nintendo DS: 48
Wii: 14
Wiiware: 13
DSiware: 25

3DS: 22
Wii U: 6

Nintendo Switch: 10

So as of now, when it comes to brand new IP, the Switch is behind every other console of the previous three generations, except the Wii U.

 

[Anonitolia]

Nintendo DS: 48

god I miss it so badly

that aside, has any of the Switch's new IP gotten a sequel yet? Ring Fit was a one-and-done, ARMS died pretty quickly, Snipperclips was always smaller in scope, Labo was another one-and-done unless you count the varying release dates of the kits...

 

[whatever I feel like]

god I miss it so badly

that aside, has any of the Switch's new IP gotten a sequel yet? Ring Fit was a one-and-done, ARMS died pretty quickly, Snipperclips was always smaller in scope, Labo was another one-and-done unless you count the varying release dates of the kits...

1/2 Switch.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

I think the "GBA/DS/3DS has more games" crowd is forgetting that handheld games take less time and resources to develop, even when compared to console games of their time, and that dev times in general are increasing.

Then make more games that take less resources. I guarantee you Super Mario Wonder isn't taking that much more resources than Super Mario 3D Land did. There's not really a good excuse here for us not having a new DKC, I understand something like Metroid Prime 4 taking longer, but you're not going to really convince people that Nintendo would be struggling to get another 2D Zelda or something out the door if they wanted to.

Remember, Switch isn't exactly cutting edge hardware, and not every game needs to juice it out anyway.

I don't have numbers, but I guarantee that Mario vs. Donkey Kong didn't take as long to develop as Mario Sunshine, and Sunshine probably took less time than Odyssey. Having one console (that happens to also function as a handheld) shouldn't double the number of games on that console, because those games now require Current Year home console levels of resources.

Maybe not double, but it would be reasonable to expect a bit more at this point, at least from smaller game series. I don't think them ending up with less games is something that should've happened, and Switch is pretty port and remake heavy too...

But I should reiterate I'm satisfied with the library.

That being said, the 3DS library kicked ass (same for DS/GBA), and I think people assumed that Nintendo would at least put out more smaller-scale low-cost games on the Switch. Think "3DS scale and price but now they render at 1080p". Even today, I'm sure people would be more than happy with a new Mario & Luigi with less detailed models at $40.

Yeah, definitely, I think they charged full price for the Link's Awakening remake and it's of a similar scale to something you'd expect on 3DS. I think there were rumors of it coming to 3DS before it was released, leading people to suspect it may have been a project shifted to Switch (don't quote me on that though).

No, you might think that the 3DS, which had graphical output somewhere between the N64 and Gamecube, took just as much time to develop games for as the Wii U/ Switch, but no one with any knowledge of game dev would.

You're forgetting the 3DS's bad start too.

Hyperfixating on graphical output is where you're making your mistake for reasons above, and I don't really care about 3DS' bad start. I'm just looking at what games they have, droughts suck but they mainly only effect you if you are a one system person, and even then only if you don't have a backlog.

Plus the bad start was mainly due to the price, it took off after the price cut and ended up with plenty of games ever since.

stupidest shit i've heard all month

I think what he's trying to say, or what would be a better point if not, is that Switch is basically as strong as what you'd expect a successor to 3DS to be, not a successor to Wii U.

In that sense, you could say "it is comparable to the tech in previous Nintendo handhelds when they were released", as in, DS/3DS was to Wii/Wii U what Switch would've been to a theoretical Wii U 2. It's obviously just a handheld system that can play on TV, if you don't have Switch Lite.

So as of now, when it comes to brand new IP, the Switch is behind every other console of the previous three generations, except the Wii U.

I see. Since it's also lacking in the sequels department too, I think it's pretty much impossible to argue that we came out on top in terms of Nintendo output compared to before.

There's probably business reasons for that, but it certainly is not about development being significantly more expensive or difficult, as some suggest.

 

[Anonitolia]

I think what he's trying to say, or what would be a better point if not, is that Switch is basically as strong as what you'd expect a successor to 3DS to be, not a successor to Wii U.

In that sense, you could say "it is comparable to the tech in previous Nintendo handhelds when they were released", as in, DS/3DS was to Wii/Wii U what Switch would've been to a theoretical Wii U 2. It's obviously just a handheld system that can play on TV, if you don't have Switch Lite.

I was going to do another detailed response but it's a pain in the ass without images and I'm really tired of arguing over stupid shit i shouldn't've been arguing over in the first place
will just say that, if that really is what he's trying to say, I still greatly disagree and think his opinion is dumb
I can vaguely see where it comes from, but not nearly enough for me to understand it

 

[IDanceonTrannyGraves]

They were comparable in terms of what tech existed at the time they were released. Are you literally retarded and think I am directly comparing their specs to each other? Obviously a Switch has more power than a 3DS, but they are similarly speced compared to phones, consoles, etc that existed at the time each was released.

Just look at the original text from my post, which you can go back and see has not been edited:

That "when they were released" is key here. The specs of Nintendo's handhelds generally place them between the previous generation of home consoles and the generation before that in terms of specs, and Switch is absolutely in line with that trend.

I only brought it up because I think to point at Switch and call it a home console whereas 3DS was a handheld as a way to explain why it has fewer releases is a bit of a cop out. I will grant that increases in graphic fidelity over time has increase development time, though, as I said previously.

Go insert your dick into your PEECEE like we all know you want to.

 

[Never Scored]

I can vaguely see where it comes from, but not nearly enough for me to understand it

There's not much to understand. In terms graphical fidelity/specs, a DS was somewhere between the Playstation 1/N64 era and the GC/PS2 era, the 3DS is somewhere between the PS2/GC era and the PS3/360, Switch is somewhere between the 360/PS3 and Xbox One/PS4. There's a clear through-line there technologically. I don't think it matters all that much anyway. I only brought it up in the first place because the guy I was replying to was implying the differences in the library were because 3DS was a handheld and Switch is a big boy console.

Let's face it, that argument doesn't hold a lot of water when we're talking about games like Mario Kart anyway. What makes Mario Kart 8 a console experience whereas Mario Kart 7 is not?

This whole shit flinging contest started because I said it kind of sucks that we're getting fewer Nintendo games than before, and it went from "Actually the Switch has more games" to "Actually the Switch has a more consistent release schedule" to "Actually the games on Switch are better" to now "Actually those 3DS games weren't a proper console experience." Anyone who's going to argue games like Tropical Freeze, Mario Kart 8 and Super Mario Bros Wonder are proper console experiences while New Super Mario Bros 2, Mario Kart 7 and Donkey Kong Country Returns 3D are not is huffing some hardcore copium.

I like Nintendo games. You like Nintendo games. I think it kind of sucks we're not getting as many as we used to. I didn't think this would be so controversial.

Go insert your dick into your PEECEE like we all know you want to.

Go hatefuck Mirrornoir some more, faggot.

 

[IDanceonTrannyGraves]

Let's face it, that argument doesn't hold a lot of water when we're talking about games like Mario Kart anyway. What makes Mario Kart 8 a console experience whereas Mario Kart 7 is not?

One's on a handheld and one's on a console, you stupid cunt.

 

[Never Scored]

One's on a handheld and one's on a console, you stupid cunt.

What makes a game system a console?