Naruto/Boruto Griefing Thread

[Gravityqueen4life]

A'ight, can someone here tell me exactly what it was that made Naruto stand out from the Jump line-up at the time in the 2000s? It couldn't have been because of ninjas, or because of Rock Lee, or Kakashi, or Naruto's ambitious one-track mind nature. I'm currently reading the manga for the first time, still in the middle of the Chuunin Exam arc, and I remember finding myself enjoying the arc when I watched the anime like a decade ago, but I still can't tell you why it was so popular outside of ninjas (for American kids). What was just so special about the series that it ran for 700 chapters?

Like @Party Hat Wurmple said, right place at the right time and all that but i think that's only half of it. Early Naruto used to have stakes. Character's could and did die in the series and it was very bloody and brutal at times. You get reminded that these 13-14 year old kids are child soldiers that get brutalized and thrown into really fucked situations.

Shippuden slowly lost that edge as time went on and later became slop.

 

[Incecticyder]

What? Bardock is still just a dude and the only thing special about Goku's mom is that she fucking sucks as a saiyan. The only real retcon was the implication that Goku being uncharacteristically nice for a saiyan is a result of his mom, instead of childhood amnesia after he landed on Earth.

I liked it better when Bardock was just as much a piece of shit as other Saiyans.
Now Goku being kind and honorable is not that special, since he inherited it from his parents who are literally the only good Saiyans.

Imo, Bardock was no more evil than the average Roman soldier. Just someone who comes from a society where war is not treated as morally evil and it is seen as necessary with those that take part in it being seen as worthy leaders. What I am saying is that Saiyan ideas of morality and evil are different than ours. Bardock would have been seen as good. And I am ok with that. I am also ok with Gine being gentle.

What I have a problem with is Bardock noticing and planning to save Goku ahead of time. It ruined the fateful and coincidental nature of the original story. In the original, Goku was saved by the baby policy that Frieza and his family put in place. It gave an ironic punishment feel. And Bardock found out that the son he dismissed as weak would take on Frieza. The futile struggle and last stand nature of the original Bardock special made it very appealing to me as well. It was just the better story.

 

[Party Hat Wurmple]

What? Bardock is still just a dude and the only thing special about Goku's mom is that she fucking sucks as a saiyan. The only real retcon was the implication that Goku being uncharacteristically nice for a saiyan is a result of his mom, instead of childhood amnesia after he landed on Earth.

Bardock made a wish on the dragon for his son's to always prosper. Meaning every success Goku has had over the series might not be due to his own efforts, but rather due to a wish made on the dragon. Why Toyotaro thought this was a good idea is beyond me. This just opens a can of worms that never should've been opened. It really does set up Goku to now be a chosen one type of story in the future if he ever comes back to this point too. It's something that never should've been put to paper and it's why I say the Granola Arc is the worst DB arc ever written.

Character's could and did die in the series and it was very bloody and brutal at times. You get reminded that these 13-14 year old kids are child soldiers that get brutalized and thrown into really fucked situations.

Yeah, there was nothing else doing these things at the time. As a kid, I never saw any story on TV like Naruto or as dark and gritty as it was in its presentation. Maybe Yu Yu Hakusho but that was the closest I think we ever got and that was very heavily censored.

 

[Gravityqueen4life]

It's something that never should've been put to paper and it's why I say the Granola Arc is the worst DB arc ever written.

That's why they should retcon the entire arc and pretend it never happened.

 

[Incecticyder]

Bardock made a wish on the dragon for his son's to always prosper. Meaning every success Goku has had over the series might not be due to his own efforts, but rather due to a wish made on the dragon. Why Toyotaro thought this was a good idea is beyond me. This just opens a can of worms that never should've been opened. It really does set up Goku to now be a chosen one type of story in the future if he ever comes back to this point too. It's something that never should've been put to paper and it's why I say the Granola Arc is the worst DB arc ever written.

Exactly. On a related note, Toyotaro is not the right kind of writer to write DB. He is a fanfic writer who writes characters he likes at the expense of everything else. He doesn't write what expands the world and moves the story/narrative/theme forward, he writes the characters he likes/dislikes in his own interpretation of them. Every character feels slightly off in an uncanny way. These are not the characters Toriyama wrote, they are the ones Toyotaro thinks they were. It reeks of fanfiction. He is a DB fanfic writer, not a DB canon writer.

Not only that but he is a self-felating writer as well. Every other page has a reaction panel or two. Characters explain the obvious and are impressed by what is happening. In the original DB, reaction panels were reserved for what could not be explained by drawings and were never allowed to destroy the pacing of the fight. Nowadays, "Goku: does something cool! Other characters: Look at how cool he is! AMAZING!!!!" FOR. EVERY. SINGLE. FIGHT. Toyotaro does not feel like a writer, he feels like a cheerleader or a fan watching the game and acting like he should have been the coach. He is in love with the world but he should have never wrote it as he can never stop acting like a fan and starts being a writer.

Yeah, there was nothing else doing these things at the time. As a kid, I never saw any story on TV like Naruto or as dark and gritty as it was in its presentation. Maybe Yu Yu Hakusho but that was the closest I think we ever got and that was very heavily censored.

Yu Yu Hakusho was much darker even in the dub even with the censorship.

 

[Party Hat Wurmple]

Exactly. On a related note, Toyotaro is not the right kind of writer to write DB. He is a fanfic writer who writes characters he likes at the expense of everything else. He doesn't write what expands the world and moves the story/narrative/theme forward, he writes the characters he likes/dislikes in his own interpretation of them.

I don't know if I'd go that far. I think he was just burnt out. He hadn't really had a break in awhile by the time the Granola Arc came around. His Goten/Trunks content is pretty in line with stuff Toriyama would do and I actually really like it. Despite it's flaws, I like the Moro Arc a lot, I consider it one of the best Super Arcs. The art is a like funky here and there but he's gotten better at it. I can understand what Toriyama saw in him.

Yu Yu Hakusho was much darker even in the dub even with the censorship.

I think people forget that YYH had two runs on Cartoon Network. The first was in a 5pm-6pm primetime time slot. It was back to back against DBZ for awhile. They didn't just censor it, they HEAVILY censored it. What you saw on Adult Swim later, was an uncensored version. Yusuke got to swear again. Blood wasn't purple. Naruto never had a primetime time slot AFAIK. I think it was always an 8:30-9PM time slot and they still censored the heck out of it. However, that was due to 4Kids handling the dub.

 

[Incecticyder]

I don't know if I'd go that far. I think he was just burnt out. He hadn't really had a break in awhile by the time the Granola Arc came around. His Goten/Trunks content is pretty in line with stuff Toriyama would do and I actually really like it. Despite it's flaws, I like the Moro Arc a lot, I consider it one of the best Super Arcs. The art is a like funky here and there but he's gotten better at it. I can understand what Toriyama saw in him.

I am not saying that he is not the best choice out of those available. I am not saying that he is talentless or incapable. I am saying that he needed a mentor. Toriyama should have been a teacher to him. Teach him paneling, story structure, chapter design etc etc. I remember a Totally Not Mark video where he went over the flaws in Toyotaro's manga design. He is talented but he also needed a mentor.

Here is the video:

I think people forget that YYH had two runs on Cartoon Network. The first was in a 5pm-6pm primetime time slot. It was back to back against DBZ for awhile. They didn't just censor it, they HEAVILY censored it. What you saw on Adult Swim later, was an uncensored version. Yusuke got to swear again. Blood wasn't purple. Naruto never had a primetime time slot AFAIK. I think it was always an 8:30-9PM time slot and they still censored the heck out of it. However, that was due to 4Kids handling the dub.

That is fair.

 

[RybenZ999]

What "time period" does the series take place in? Initially I was gonna say medieval Japan, but T.Vs, radios, headphones and even game consoles are shown sometimes. From the looks of it, the most fitting label I can put on it is 90s-2000s Japan with samurai-era laws and aesthetics.

 

[Gorillion others]

What "time period" does the series take place in? Initially I was gonna say medieval Japan, but T.Vs, radios, headphones and even game consoles are shown sometimes. From the looks of it, the most fitting label I can put on it is 90s-2000s Japan with samurai-era laws and aesthetics.

You're asking something even Kishimoto doesn't want answered.

 

[Incecticyder]

What "time period" does the series take place in? Initially I was gonna say medieval Japan, but T.Vs, radios, headphones and even game consoles are shown sometimes. From the looks of it, the most fitting label I can put on it is 90s-2000s Japan with samurai-era laws and aesthetics.

You're asking something even Kishimoto doesn't want answered.

The time period is another world. It is vaguely based on the Warring States period but it is not our world. There is no clear parallel beyond Warring States.

 

[Son of Big Boss]

I think Kishimoto did not even knew himself what time period he wanted to use for his world.
In early Naruto, there was a lot of weird technology (remember Hiruzen crystal ball?), guns and stuff, then when Kishimoto realized "oh shit if i have guns then why would ninjas use kunais and other medieval weapons?" he softly retconned the technology out of existance by pretending it never existed.

Then the Boruto writers for some reason thought it was a good idea to bring the technology back.

Why would ninjas bother to use swords and kunais when they can just use a shotgun?
If you can get turned into a cyborg and basically become Otsotsuki level instantly, why doesn't everyone do it?
Why bother learning jutsus if you can just use technology to mimic jutsus?

Having technology completely fucks up the power scaling and the world building.

 

[Party Hat Wurmple]

Why bother learning jutsus if you can just use technology to mimic jutsus?

That's the plot of the Boruto movie. Which is basically, something something.... tech bad....hard work good.... something, something Naruto big mad at Boruto because reasons....Not a real ninja. Ya know what, fuck it. Naruto is a bad dad.

The only time we see Naruto being a dad and it's to berate his son for test driving equipment-WHICH HE WAS ASKED TO DO. Sure, Naruto might be against it, but considering the Leaf Village is ya know...A MILITARY, developing a device that can give children multiple releases and A Rank Jutsu access might be worth developing and exploring.

 

[Chilson]

That's the plot of the Boruto movie. Which is basically, something something.... tech bad....hard work good.... something, something Naruto big mad at Boruto because reasons....Not a real ninja. Ya know what, fuck it. Naruto is a bad dad.

The only time we see Naruto being a dad and it's to berate his son for test driving equipment-WHICH HE WAS ASKED TO DO. Sure, Naruto might be against it, but considering the Leaf Village is ya know...A MILITARY, developing a device that can give children multiple releases and A Rank Jutsu access might be worth developing and exploring.

It was more "cheating bad...something something" but your absolutely right. The fact that Boruto was able to beat a better opponent thanks to the tool is proof enough that it works and when everyone else is using various bits of technology to win in a MAGIC NINJA FIGHT, then no one should really have any problem with Boruto using one to win.

 

[Incecticyder]

That's the plot of the Boruto movie. Which is basically, something something.... tech bad....hard work good.... something, something Naruto big mad at Boruto because reasons....Not a real ninja. Ya know what, fuck it. Naruto is a bad dad.

The only time we see Naruto being a dad and it's to berate his son for test driving equipment-WHICH HE WAS ASKED TO DO. Sure, Naruto might be against it, but considering the Leaf Village is ya know...A MILITARY, developing a device that can give children multiple releases and A Rank Jutsu access might be worth developing and exploring.

It was more "cheating bad...something something" but your absolutely right. The fact that Boruto was able to beat a better opponent thanks to the tool is proof enough that it works and when everyone else is using various bits of technology to win in a MAGIC NINJA FIGHT, then no one should really have any problem with Boruto using one to win.

I honestly think the "taking the easy way teaches nothing" lesson works. Yes, placing all your trust into a machine is stupid. You have to actually learn how to fight too. In my opinion, they should have the movie be about a different form of cheating or something else entirely. But yes, I side with Naruto on this. Even in real life, would you trust a doctor that relied on ChatGTP for his Phd? Yeah, new tech and shit but still, actually get the skills too.

 

[Chilson]

I honestly think the "taking the easy way teaches nothing" lesson works. Yes, placing all your trust into a machine is stupid. You have to actually learn how to fight too. In my opinion, they should have the movie be about a different form of cheating or something else entirely. But yes, I side with Naruto on this. Even in real life, would you trust a doctor that relied on ChatGTP for his Phd? Yeah, new tech and shit but still, actually get the skills too.

I would trust a doctor who uses an MRI machine over one who doesn't if they had to look at stuff inside of me. Boruto beating a better opponent with a new piece of technology is no different than a man with a gun beating one who is unarmed in a fight. Or going back to the fucking Naruto universe, a ninja with a exploding kunai beating an unarmed one.

The lesson only works on the surface level if you don't think about it, which is shitty writing. Ninja's as a warrior type are based entirely around deception, which is literally "cheating". Its just really dumb to make this the core of your narrative.

If I had to make this work then it would change from "cheating bad" to "ignorance bad". Then you have Boruto trying to use the device and losing horribly to the big bad (or even some of the other tournament fighters) because he fundamentally doesn't understand the use cases and concepts behind the techniques he is using. Showing that even if the device is useful, it needs someone who puts the effort in to fully understand the techniques so it can actually be helpful in a fight.

 

[Incecticyder]

I would trust a doctor who uses an MRI machine over one who doesn't if they had to look at stuff inside of me. Boruto beating a better opponent with a new piece of technology is no different than a man with a gun beating one who is unarmed in a fight. Or going back to the fucking Naruto universe, a ninja with a exploding kunai beating an unarmed one.

There is a difference between bringing a gun in a street fight where you have to worry about your life vs bringing a gun in a boxing match. The Chunin exams are tests on what you learned, not what you bought or were gifted. Anyone could get their hands on the gauntlet, they were tasked with showing their skills. Again, you would not want a doctor that cheated to pass the exam. Also, MRI machines are there to do the things we humans are incapable of learning. Such tech is necessary and needed.

The lesson only works on the surface level if you don't think about it, which is shitty writing. Ninja's as a warrior type are based entirely around deception, which is literally "cheating". Its just really dumb to make this the core of your narrative.

What equipment they would have in a war and in an exam is vastly different. Imagine relying on a calculator too much to the point you can no longer do math in your head anymore. What do you do should your device break down? Even modern militaries teach CQC to soldier because guns, while the primary weapon, they are not always the best weapon. What do you do should you run out of ammo? Lay down and ask for them to be gentle? Even today people in the military learn knifework and martial arts. You need to know the basics.

If I had to make this work then it would change from "cheating bad" to "ignorance bad". Then you have Boruto trying to use the device and losing horribly to the big bad (or even some of the other tournament fighters) because he fundamentally doesn't understand the use cases and concepts behind the techniques he is using. Showing that even if the device is useful, it needs someone who puts the effort in to fully understand the techniques so it can actually be helpful in a fight.

I think that both lessons can be taught.

 

[TerminalTryHard]

I would trust a doctor who uses an MRI machine over one who doesn't if they had to look at stuff inside of me. Boruto beating a better opponent with a new piece of technology is no different than a man with a gun beating one who is unarmed in a fight. Or going back to the fucking Naruto universe, a ninja with a exploding kunai beating an unarmed one.

The lesson only works on the surface level if you don't think about it, which is shitty writing. Ninja's as a warrior type are based entirely around deception, which is literally "cheating". Its just really dumb to make this the core of your narrative.

If I had to make this work then it would change from "cheating bad" to "ignorance bad". Then you have Boruto trying to use the device and losing horribly to the big bad (or even some of the other tournament fighters) because he fundamentally doesn't understand the use cases and concepts behind the techniques he is using. Showing that even if the device is useful, it needs someone who puts the effort in to fully understand the techniques so it can actually be helpful in a fight.

Except they've been ninjas in name only since half way through Shippuden. They're basically just more boring DBZ characters at this point.

 

[Party Hat Wurmple]

Except they've been ninjas in name only since half way through Shippuden. They're basically just more boring DBZ characters at this point.

What? You mean you don't like Boruto's Uzuhiko that just makes you...fall down and lose balance I guess? But it's so coooool...He uses the rotation of the planet.......It boosts him from like.....city level to planetary.....He can totally destroy a planet guys.....Boruto most op protag ever....look at all his rizzle.....

Fuck I hate Boruto fans. They're all subhuman brown shitstains with double digit IQs.

 

[We Are The Witches]

I think Kishimoto did not even knew himself what time period he wanted to use for his world.
In early Naruto, there was a lot of weird technology (remember Hiruzen crystal ball?), guns and stuff, then when Kishimoto realized "oh shit if i have guns then why would ninjas use kunais and other medieval weapons?" he softly retconned the technology out of existance by pretending it never existed.

Then the Boruto writers for some reason thought it was a good idea to bring the technology back.

Why would ninjas bother to use swords and kunais when they can just use a shotgun?
If you can get turned into a cyborg and basically become Otsotsuki level instantly, why doesn't everyone do it?
Why bother learning jutsus if you can just use technology to mimic jutsus?

Having technology completely fucks up the power scaling and the world building.

I saw this funny remark elsewhere, that Naruto fights would be like this if guns existed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5NYnkI9Gsc&t=381s
(6:21)

Although this would not work on high level ninjas right? Specially ones that have armor (e.g: Gaara) or can disable the gun/projectiles with ease (e.g: Kisame summoning waves and flooding the place, since it might affect the triggering/gunpowder).

Also, you have to think that chakra is really powerful right? Like Sakura punching several dozens of metric tons of pure stone with her fist. That impact is greater than a bullet, and so the chakra could be used defensively against them, yet bullets would be harder to engulf in your own chakra in order to penetrate that armour, because of the speed. But with a kunai, you can, and therefore cause damage to that chakra armour, where bullets wouldn't.

But of course that would be for elite fighting, not for kids being thrown into the forest fending off leeches & snakes.

 

[AnsemSoD1]

Lol, meanwhile One Peak just keeps showing up this absolute washed up piece of trash series by the week. ROCKS IS BB'S DAD