Naruto/Boruto Griefing Thread

[Ensok]

Boy you guys sure are angry over a series that ended over ten years ago. This is more like a seething thread for people that never got past 2014 or something. I mean seriously, some of your posts read like you think Kishi killed your parents or something. Like god damn, relax people. I'm not even this upset over Disney Star Wars. And why is half the last page just praising Oda and One Piece? Is the rest of the thread since the last time I looked at it like that? I already see a lot of posters common from the One Piece thread here.

Normally I wouldn't bother posting in the autistic thunderdome that is this thread, where you guys mostly just seem to whine and get angry over your own headcanon you made up, but I was browsing and saw a post:

Anyway, peak Naruto was making the final villian be a moon alien based on the fucking Kayuya myth of all things with 0 set up. I like to believe Oda and Kishimoto were shooting the shit and agreed to have moon aliens big bads in both their stories (to go with this take I'll asume Imu is from the moon), but since Oda took a few extra decades to get to the point left Kishi looking like a retard.

Actually I had Kaguya on the mind recently and this is a good excuse to write up some thoughts on her. So anyways, Kaguya was probably planned for about a year at minimum (although perhaps not as the final boss, it's impossible to know when Kishi made that exact decision) she's first mentioned once Obito spawns the Divine Tree and then Black Zetsu stabs Madara in the back and revives her about thirty chapter laters. There was also the brief voice that spoke to Madara urging him to take the Divine Tree into himself, among one or two other very minor things. But there wasn't zero setup, I know you're probably not being literal though, she might as well have zero setup.

I still think Kaguya was unnecessary, I don't remember exactly what I thought when that chapter came out other than probably pure confusion and the bad kind of surprise, and I don't particularly like what happened but I've warmed up to her over the years for a few reasons.

1. In one fell swoop, Kaguya and Black Zetsu ended years of Uchiha supremacy and Uchiha's stealing the spotlight. If you were part of the western fanbase and following Naruto for years, you'll know how many people were sick of this. Me included. The real leader of Akatsuki being "Madara", the Rinnegan being Madara's, the Uchiha being descended directly from the Sage, the Uchiha being one of the primary two clans that founded Konoha, Sasuke's everything, etc. etc. etc. So much of Naruto ended up being about the Uchiha and it was just tired and annoying years before this happened. But then Black Zetsu shows up and says "No, fuck you, you were all pawns." and then Kaguya becomes the final villain and the Uchiha have never been the focus of the series again. Not really at least. And she even has the Byakugan for added hilarity.
2. It gave Sakura and Kakashi something to do. If the final fight was against Madara, Naruto and Sasuke would've been the only ones who could fight him thanks to his abilities and way of fighting. Kaguya allowed for everyone to contribute naturally thanks to her being a different kind of opponent, it allowed Team 7 to come together one last time to defeat the final boss.
3. Although it's obviously retroactive, I like how Kishi ties her to Kimimaro and the Kaguya clan with her bone abilities. This is a clever thing by Kishi to be smart enough to realize the connection and it retroactively makes Kimimaro and his clan more interesting and explains why his power was so feared. The bone kekkei genkai is just cool in general too.
4. Great VA in the anime, shares her with my favorite Yonko. (Oh wait, now I'm the one talking about One Piece)
5. Allows for Reverse Harem Jutsu to happen.
6. Naruto telling Black Zetsu off and throwing him into Chibaku Tensei is genuinely one of the most satisfying moments of the series, it's way better in the anime than just in the manga though.
7. I just like her design in general, very regal.
8. As fun as Madara was, as good of a final villain as he would've been, what happened to him was perfect karma and incredibly fitting. Madara used everyone he could, treated everyone as pawns, thought he was the center of the world, and then gets the rude awakening he deserves. He had a dizzying case of main character syndrome and really genuinely thought he was the savior of the world. He didn't listen to anyone else because he thought he was better and above everyone else, so finding out he was just someone else's pawn was perfect and for such a haughty and smug bastard as him it's a great ending.

 

[TerminalTryHard]

The "is Sakura a cuck?" Was definitely another peak Naruto moment. That it was considered plausible that yes, Sasuke fucked Karin to death, she shat out Sarada and then proceeded to dump her on Sakura while he lived like a murder hobo as far away as possible from both really made that arc extra special.

Speaks volumes to how pathetic Sakura is and how much of a lizard person Sasuke is.

Gets funnier when you factor in that Karin and Naruto are related.

 

[Gorillion others]

We got the obligatory Naruto defender now, folks. I was wondering for a while when something like that would come.

 

[Incecticyder]

Boy you guys sure are angry over a series that ended over ten years ago. This is more like a seething thread for people that never got past 2014 or something. I mean seriously, some of your posts read like you think Kishi killed your parents or something. Like god damn, relax people. I'm not even this upset over Disney Star Wars. And why is half the last page just praising Oda and One Piece? Is the rest of the thread since the last time I looked at it like that? I already see a lot of posters common from the One Piece thread here.

We talk about Boruto too and that is ongoing. We talk about the Narutards that flood the internet with their bad takes that Naruto is better than <insert series here> which they cannot defend effectively. We criticize Kishimoto's and Ikemoto's writing skills because they are good examples as what not to do and how one can do things better with few changes. And we talk about the people that made manga around the time Naruto was running because it is better to compare him to people that were his contemporaries.

Is this good enough?

Actually I had Kaguya on the mind recently and this is a good excuse to write up some thoughts on her. So anyways, Kaguya was probably planned for about a year at minimum (although perhaps not as the final boss, it's impossible to know when Kishi made that exact decision) she's first mentioned once Obito spawns the Divine Tree and then Black Zetsu stabs Madara in the back and revives her about thirty chapter laters. There was also the brief voice that spoke to Madara urging him to take the Divine Tree into himself, among one or two other very minor things. But there wasn't zero setup, I know you're probably not being literal though, she might as well have zero setup.

Are we saying there was literally zero set-up? No, but there was not enough for someone who was touted as the final villain of the series either. Add the facts that she is not as interesting as Madara was, she is not skilled enough to be the final villain and the fact that BZ was doing the fighting for her, she was too little, too late.

I still think Kaguya was unnecessary, I don't remember exactly what I thought when that chapter came out other than probably pure confusion and the bad kind of surprise, and I don't particularly like what happened but I've warmed up to her over the years for a few reasons.

She was necessary. Madara was too strong to be defeated as he was. And we know that: He had the Rinnegan but did not use the Paths abilities even when they could be useful because it would make him too strong to have them on top of being as skilled and strong as he was already.

1. In one fell swoop, Kaguya and Black Zetsu ended years of Uchiha supremacy and Uchiha's stealing the spotlight. If you were part of the western fanbase and following Naruto for years, you'll know how many people were sick of this. Me included. The real leader of Akatsuki being "Madara", the Rinnegan being Madara's, the Uchiha being descended directly from the Sage, the Uchiha being one of the primary two clans that founded Konoha, Sasuke's everything, etc. etc. etc. So much of Naruto ended up being about the Uchiha and it was just tired and annoying years before this happened. But then Black Zetsu shows up and says "No, fuck you, you were all pawns." and then Kaguya becomes the final villain and the Uchiha have never been the focus of the series again. Not really at least. And she even has the Byakugan for added hilarity.

We hated the Uchiha domination too but it does not change the fact that that it ended in a way that was not very well written. If Madara had been struggling with the possession and that made him unable to fight to his full power, it would have been both better written and good karma. Also, if BZ made everything happen for Kaguya, that does not make here more compelling.

2. It gave Sakura and Kakashi something to do. If the final fight was against Madara, Naruto and Sasuke would've been the only ones who could fight him thanks to his abilities and way of fighting. Kaguya allowed for everyone to contribute naturally thanks to her being a different kind of opponent, it allowed Team 7 to come together one last time to defeat the final boss.

Having to nerf the final boss to make up for the fact that the power scaling went out of whack is not a sign of good writing. Kaguya did not need the BZ retcon and she certainly did not need this either. It only made her feel weaker and tedious.

3. Although it's obviously retroactive, I like how Kishi ties her to Kimimaro and the Kaguya clan with her bone abilities. This is a clever thing by Kishi to be smart enough to realize the connection and it retroactively makes Kimimaro and his clan more interesting and explains why his power was so feared. The bone kekkei genkai is just cool in general too.

If only he did it with more things. The retcons are a plague upon the series.

4. Great VA in the anime, shares her with my favorite Yonko. (Oh wait, now I'm the one talking about One Piece)

No comment. That is more on the actress.

5. Allows for Reverse Harem Jutsu to happen.

For which I am forever thankful. I did not like the rest of the fight but that was solid.

6. Naruto telling Black Zetsu off and throwing him into Chibaku Tensei is genuinely one of the most satisfying moments of the series, it's way better in the anime than just in the manga though.

We could have him be just as obnoxious but still granted Kaguya more agency.

7. I just like her design in general, very regal.

Her design is great but wasted.

8. As fun as Madara was, as good of a final villain as he would've been, what happened to him was perfect karma and incredibly fitting. Madara used everyone he could, treated everyone as pawns, thought he was the center of the world, and then gets the rude awakening he deserves. He had a dizzying case of main character syndrome and really genuinely thought he was the savior of the world. He didn't listen to anyone else because he thought he was better and above everyone else, so finding out he was just someone else's pawn was perfect and for such a haughty and smug bastard as him it's a great ending.

The problem is not the premise but the execution. Him becoming a puppet for Kaguya was a good idea on paper. It was just executed in the worst way possible. BZ planning everything and telling her how to fight made her look weak. Madara not using his Six Paths abilities was because Kishimoto gave abilities to the Rinnegan without thinking long term. Hagoromo had to appear before Naruto and Sasuke to grant them power because they could not win against the monster that had been created. Abilities were just being added to him and the heroes. It is a mess.

We got the obligatory Naruto defender now, folks. I was wondering for a while when something like that would come.

Let us give him some time, this might be fun. This place lacks opposition, it is good to avoid becoming an echo chamber. Of course, if he cannot back up his takes with sound arguments then we might have a problem but as long as he is not too obnoxious, we can tolerate him.

 

[Gorillion others]

Kishimoto gave abilities to the Rinnegan without thinking long term

"Pew pew bang bang wroooooogh!" - Kishimoto during the conception of the Rinnegan

 

[Ensok]

We talk about Boruto too and that is ongoing.

No one, including the people actually reading it like me, actually cares about Boruto. It's the Alien 3 and beyond of Naruto.

We talk about the Narutards that flood the internet with their bad takes

Are you living 15 years ago? Where do you even go to see this nowadays? For the most part it seems series like AoT, JJK, etc. have completely supplanted Naruto in that category. The Naruto fanbase has naturally died down over the years.

<insert series here>

Psst, you can just say One Piece. I'll give it to you straight, I used to like One Piece a lot, more than Naruto for a time, but I just don't think it's been good for a long time and I doubt it's going to end well at this point. But if it has an ending even half as good as Naruto's I'll be impressed and give Oda some praise.

Are we saying there was literally zero set-up? No, but there was not enough for someone who was touted as the final villain of the series either. Add the facts that she is not as interesting as Madara was

This is essentially what I already said myself, I know he wasn't being literal, I was just shedding light. The not skilled part makes her a foil to characters like Madara and Obito, whether that's less or more interesting as a fight is up to personal opinion. Kaguya was pure power, she didn't really know ninjutsu or how to actually fight, she only had her overwhelming chakra and busted abilities. Again, I don't think Kaguya was as good as Madara in basically any way, I'm just advocating possible positives with her/things to like about her.

She was necessary. Madara was too strong to be defeated as he was. And we know that: He had the Rinnegan but did not use the Paths abilities even when they could be useful because it would make him too strong to have them on top of being as skilled and strong as he was already.

He wasn't too strong to be defeated as he was, in the early fight against Naruto and Sasuke after they received their new powers they had him on the back foot and I don't think anyone would have bat an eyelash if they defeated him in a straight up fight even after he gained both Rinnegan. No one's bothered by Goku still beating Kid Buu with the Spirit Bomb. Yeah, as for not using the Rinnegan abilities it's basically a retcon? It wouldn't make the fight "too difficult" as Naruto knows how to counter all of them and Sasuke could theoretically have started using them too. I think there's a meta reason that Kishi just didn't want to reuse the same abilities for Madara as Nagato had. So Madara gets Limbo and other shit instead of using shinra tensei and what not to make the fight different. Also Animal Path is useless without prior summons ready, Hell Path is also useless for yourself in a fight, and Human Path would be occasional at best.

We hated the Uchiha domination too but it does not change the fact that that it ended in a way that was not very well written. If Madara had been struggling with the possession and that made him unable to fight to his full power, it would have been both better written and good karma. Also, if BZ made everything happen for Kaguya, that does not make here more compelling.

I disagree. Just because you say something is not well written doesn't make it true. What you're saying would be better is pure personal opinion.

Having to nerf the final boss to make up for the fact that the power scaling went out of whack is not a sign of good writing. Kaguya did not need the BZ retcon and she certainly did not need this either. It only made her feel weaker and tedious.

She isn't "nerfed". She fights differently than Madara because she's not a fighter. Is Kira nerfed compared to Dio?

We could have him be just as obnoxious but still granted Kaguya more agency.

This is a problem I agree with, Kaguya should've flat out talked more.

Hagoromo had to appear before Naruto and Sasuke to grant them power because they could not win against the monster that had been created. Abilities were just being added to him and the heroes. It is a mess.

This kind of stuff happening is not unique to Naruto at all and happens in all sorts of fiction, and generally speaking I'm far more lenient on when it happens at the end of a series like it did with Naruto. If you're going to do crazy powers you should do it right at the end. A lot of the things you're complaining about applies to other series but you make it sound like Naruto and Kishi are uniquely guilty. Does Gear 5 not fit almost exactly what you've said?

You could headcanon any number of reasons why Madara doesn't use the Rinnegan abilities, he definitely doesn't have practice with them for one. He could see them as unnecessary with all his other powers, he could just be doing it out of ego and pride. He could assume Sasuke could cancel them out with his Rinnegan, etc. For all the nitpicking and glass half empty headcanoning going on here there might as well be a positive spin.

Seeing the Rinnegan in action when those chapters first came out was great since it was truly unique and different and no one, absolutely no one, guessed or predicted what the "leader" of Akatsuki's abilities really were. Good lord there were so many fanfics guessing he used Void Element or something like that.

 

[Incecticyder]

No one, including the people actually reading it like me, actually cares about Boruto. It's the Alien 3 and beyond of Naruto.

Believe it or not, many act like Boruto is good. The manga is at its "Shippuden".

Are you living 15 years ago? Where do you even go to see this nowadays? For the most part it seems series like AoT, JJK, etc. have completely supplanted Naruto in that category. The Naruto fanbase has naturally died down over the years.

Mostly YT. Of course it is not as bad as it once was but you still see them being obnoxious.

Psst, you can just say One Piece. I'll give it to you straight, I used to like One Piece a lot, more than Naruto for a time, but I just don't think it's been good for a long time and I doubt it's going to end well at this point. But if it has an ending even half as good as Naruto's I'll be impressed and give Oda some praise.

One Piece is the one manga most Narutards have surrendered on. Also, One Piece has had more thought put into it to keep it fresh and consistent with its lore.

This is essentially what I already said myself, I know he wasn't being literal, I was just shedding light. The not skilled part makes her a foil to characters like Madara and Obito, whether that's less or more interesting as a fight is up to personal opinion. Kaguya was pure power, she didn't really know ninjutsu or how to actually fight, she only had her overwhelming chakra and busted abilities. Again, I don't think Kaguya was as good as Madara in basically any way, I'm just advocating possible positives with her/things to like about her.

I understand that she was pure power. Still, that is way worse for a final villain. Did she have positives? Yes, but that is faint praise. She could have used Jutsu like a wizard or a sorcerer giving her an alien fighting style while making her skilled in her own way. I understand WHY she was weak but that does not change the fact that she was weak.

He wasn't too strong to be defeated as he was, in the early fight against Naruto and Sasuke after they received their new powers they had him on the back foot and I don't think anyone would have bat an eyelash if they defeated him in a straight up fight even after he gained both Rinnegan. No one's bothered by Goku still beating Kid Buu with the Spirit Bomb. Yeah, as for not using the Rinnegan abilities it's basically a retcon? It wouldn't make the fight "too difficult" as Naruto knows how to counter all of them and Sasuke could theoretically have started using them too. I think there's a meta reason that Kishi just didn't want to reuse the same abilities for Madara as Nagato had. So Madara gets Limbo and other shit instead of using shinra tensei and what not to make the fight different. Also Animal Path is useless without prior summons ready, Hell Path is also useless for yourself in a fight, and Human Path would be occasional at best.

The Six Paths could have helped in the fight. Asura could have used its weapons, Human would make it risky to approach him on melee, Preta could eat chakra attacks (and since Madara can use Sage Mode, he would not turn into stone) and Deva can use gravity. If he was pushed into a corner, why did he not even attempt to use those abilities? And what is his MS ability? He never used his Mangekyo Sharingan ability for all we know.

I disagree. Just because you say something is not well written doesn't make it true. What you're saying would be better is pure personal opinion.

True, but still. I was not satisfied and it felt stitched together. The story did not flow as well as it should. Of course it is personal opinion. Critique always is. But I feel like it could have been done better and threw in some ideas. I did not say "this sucks" and leave it at that.

She isn't "nerfed". She fights differently than Madara because she's not a fighter. Is Kira nerfed compared to Dio?

She is a nerf to Madara. She dialed the skill down to make for an easier to beat final boss. Kira is different. Jojo villains have the tendency to be largely incomparable to each other in terms of ability. Any of them could defeat either if they planned things well.

This is a problem I agree with, Kaguya should've flat out talked more.

Hell, have BZ BE her. Have them share memories and experiences.

This kind of stuff happening is not unique to Naruto at all and happens in all sorts of fiction, and generally speaking I'm far more lenient on when it happens at the end of a series like it did with Naruto. If you're going to do crazy powers you should do it right at the end. A lot of the things you're complaining about applies to other series but you make it sound like Naruto and Kishi are uniquely guilty. Does Gear 5 not fit almost exactly what you've said?

They kind of are. This has been done better in other series. Again, good premise, bad execution. Awakenings in OP are when the body catches up to the DF. Perhaps the beating and the adrenaline helped Luffy's mind and body awaken. Hagoromo literally came and gave the powers to the heroes. This IS different. Execution matters.

You could headcanon any number of reasons why Madara doesn't use the Rinnegan abilities, he definitely doesn't have practice with them for one. He could see them as unnecessary with all his other powers, he could just be doing it out of ego and pride. He could assume Sasuke could cancel them out with his Rinnegan, etc. For all the nitpicking and glass half empty headcanoning going on here there might as well be a positive spin.

Perhaps you are right. Madara was egoistic and proud. But skill would not have been an issue. He mastered Sage Mode immediately. Could Sasuke cancel them? Maybe but still he should attempt it to cause Sasuke to run out of chakra and tire himself out. Show us Madara trying things we know he can do.

Seeing the Rinnegan in action when those chapters first came out was great since it was truly unique and different and no one, absolutely no one, guessed or predicted what the "leader" of Akatsuki's abilities really were. Good lord there were so many fanfics guessing he used Void Element or something like that

Yeah, that was pretty cool.

Look, we had more complains about the writing in Naruto and Boruto. Too many to list here (backstories, characters, themes etc etc). Maybe give the entire thread a look and see them for yourself? At least so we can be clear and not repeat ourselves. Check them out.

 

[Gorillion others]

see them for yourself

Likely not gonna happen. I've seen hundreds of these guys in YouTube scraping the barrel just to put down some of the most solid criticism ever fathomed by the greatest of Naruto critics, and even then, it begins to border on the ridiculous and childish. Oh, and they have shovels to dig deeper. A lot deeper.

 

[Gravityqueen4life]

Gets funnier when you factor in that Karin and Naruto are related.

That could have been the trigger to have awakened saskues sexual urges. What better way to get close to your BFF then tying your genetic line to his?

 

[Gorillion others]

Peak Naruto was when Hashirama pretty much praised and commended Itachi for nearly wiping out his own family.

Also, Naruto called Obito a cool guy for wanting to be Hokage just like him.

I'm genuinely surprised nobody has taken advantage of those little factoids.

 

[Lone MacReady II]

Sad thing is that Kishi made so that, even in the war arc, Naruto pines for Sakura. All that time was wasted. He knew he wanted Naruto and Hinata together but he did not bother to have them interact and develop chemistry.

I had already peace'd out of the franchise by that point, so learning that makes me think he is extra retarded. You can't have the mother of your MC's children be some under-developed, especially when she ends up being in the sequel series and the mom of the next MC...

And I do think that Orihime was better in the regard she was allowed to interact with her love interest more. Even when Ichigo liked to pretend he did not have feelings for her due to dealing with his own issues and shyness. Chemistry was still there.

I always liked Orihime, her design is simple and the orange hair pops, and she's also voiced by Hinata's VA.... I guess they're kindov interchangeable to me, but Orihime definitely suffered more even if she didn't suffer as critical of beatdowns. Her powers were to heal and that was her strength, in addition to iron hard back muscles.

 

[Gorillion others]

Her powers were to heal

Not really heal, but "reject" an outcome. When she uses her powers, she's actually reversing the injured party back to their uninjured state. It's pretty much a reversal of causality or the rejection of a phenomena.

 

[Incecticyder]

I had already peace'd out of the franchise by that point, so learning that makes me think he is extra retarded. You can't have the mother of your MC's children be some under-developed, especially when she ends up being in the sequel series and the mom of the next MC...

Yeah, in full view of Hinata, he calls Sakura his girlfriend WHILE TALKING TO HIS FATHER! That means that Hinata lost the opportunity to talk with her father-in-law and he thinks Naruto married Sakura. That is what I call "badly written".

I always liked Orihime, her design is simple and the orange hair pops, and she's also voiced by Hinata's VA.... I guess they're kindov interchangeable to me, but Orihime definitely suffered more even if she didn't suffer as critical of beatdowns. Her powers were to heal and that was her strength, in addition to iron hard back muscles.

One thing (of many) that Bleach does better than Naruto is its female cast. Both the heroines and villainesses are written better in Bleach. Rukia is a better deuteragonist than Sakura and Orihime is a better love interest than Hinata. I honestly never understood why that is even a debate. I also do not like how people place Sakura on the same level of usefulness as Orihime. Like, neither fights well, which is a problem in a battle shonen, but Sakura is a trained assassin while Orihime is at best a blackbelt in self-defense but nothing that implies actual combat experience. It hurts way more to know that someone like Might Dai (Might Guy's father), who was a pioneer in Taijutsu and the 8 Gates, was forced to remain a Genin while someone like Sakura made to Chunin at a young age and later to Jonin even though she fumbles most of her fights. That is why I do not like it when Orihime's fight record is compared to Sakura's. One is trained to kill and screws that up while the other is not and fights like someone normally for someone of her caliber.

 

[Son of Big Boss]

I don't think having literally Ninja Jesus appear and give godlike powers to the protagonists so they can defeat the final villain could ever be called good writing. Only Naruto fans would ever defend this shit.

 

[Party Hat Wurmple]

Well another month goes by and that means Boruto Ch. 19 is out and it's one of the stronger entries.

The cover art this week is Moegi proper. It's much better than last week's cover art of Matsuri. Honestly, I like this design. Maybe it's only because we've rarely seen Moegi and most of her screen time is as a child, but for once Ikemoto's art actually made a character look better. Ikemoto has a habit of drawing faces with very profound cheeks and eyes that I've dubbed baby-face. It actually works here though as Moegi's hair provides a good frame for it and it doesn't look out of proportion. Her outfit is a simple black body suit with a Leaf Shinobi vest and some bracelets. She still has the stupid Ikemoto platform heels, but I've already screamed into the void enough about them. The reason I'm highlighting this is because it's one of the rare times I think Ikemoto has actually IMPROVED a character's design. Usually they all come out worse.

The chapter starts in the sand village with Shinki talking with Araya. Shinki infuses Araya's sword with his chakra to allow it to control Iron Sand. Araya says this will give him the advantage while sparring and Shinki says it's better to have this handicap so someday he can better protect Gaara. Araya says he's always going on about his adopted father. He tells Shinki to give Yodo some more attention, insinuating Yodo has a thing for Shinki. Shinki however retorts with joking that Araya is a hypocrite because he always talks about Yodo. While this is a mostly innocuous scene, it -le gasp- actually has a reason for being shown.

We cut back to the fighting in present day. Araya quickly dispels Ryu's Iron Sand and they begin the fight proper. Everyone focuses on attacking Ryu but they realize he can actually dissipate his entire body into Iron Sand. Yodo is still able to detect him however and Araya can reassemble him with his Iron Sand Sealing Sword. Ryu's in a bit of a pinch. Sarada follows up with a Chidori strike but while effective, it fails to put him down. The fighting choreography is actually quite easy to follow for a change. Everyone even gets a decent role to play with Yodo tracking him, Mitsuki restraining him, and Sarada dealing heavy attacks. One of the better fights so far.

We cut to Matsuri and Konohamaru and she's pissed off he won't let her call him Konohamaru-chan. The cloth around her neck splits into hair like tendrils and they start surrounding his neck and strangling him and choking him. He insists it just doesn't feel right her and she demands to know why Moegi gets to call him that but she doesn't. Unfortunately this whole part seems kind of dumb if you aren't Japanese because of the honorifics thing. The honorifics play a big role and if you keep them in mind, this scene makes more sense.

We jump to Eida who is watching the fight and explains that she's not upset over not being able to call him by that name but rather she's jealous of the relationship Moegi has that Matsuri does not. Eida chastises Konohamaru though for not understanding this. She explains the situation to Koji and Boruto. The others are holding their own but it's too early to tell how the fight will go but Konohamaru pissed off Matsuri and is about to be eaten. Koji tells Boruto to let it play out and not to jump in.

We cut to Jura telling Bug and Hidari that in his opinion, beings should strive to follow instincts to lead to further evolution. He goes on to explain that humans due to their social nature though bind themselves with reasoning to dull their instincts. He says that it's a negative consequence of human intelligence. According to Jura, not following instincts are a fatal flaw of humanity. The other consequence of intelligence, that even the Divine Trees are vulnerable to though, is love.

Back to Matsuri, she tells Konohamaru that her head is constantly filled with thoughts of him. She doesn't understand why she has these feelings and it's driving her mad. Apparently even causing her pain. She thinks that if she can devour Konohamaru it will stop and she will never feel this way again. Jura chastises Team Ino Shika Cho for throwing their lives in danger to save Himawari despite it being illogical and insists love was responsible for their actions. Hidari asks what love is but Jura isn't sure himself. He just knows it's dangerous, even to them. He urges the others to overcome their feelings of love though in favor of their instincts.

Back at the fight with Ryu, he appears overhead and spawns several Claw Grimes. They try to fend them off before they even land, but there's too many. One of them bites Yodo and Araya instinctively attacks it. The sword however gets lodged in the Claw Grime and another Claw Grimes absorbs its body, taking Araya's sword with it. The chapter ends with them now completely defenseless from Ryu's Iron Sand and Matsuri prepares to devour Konohamaru.

Pretty decent chapter overall. It was pretty clear to me this was always where the stuff with the Trees would go. However, I think we took a lot of detours to get to the meat and potatoes of the actual story and conflict. Now it seems like Ikemoto did a bit of course correction to make the Divine Trees actual characters. If anything, Jura's characterization is a little inconsistent as he's always portrayed as being smarter and understanding more than he lets on, but I'm willing to sacrifice inconsistency for what we get instead. His point being driven home by Araya's instinctive reaction to protect someone he loves and putting them all in grave danger, really made for a good moment.

If I had to gripe about something it's about Konohamaru. I'll give Ikemoto that he did state Konohamaru is a little daft when it comes to romance. However, he's an adult by now in his 20s. Late 20s. Maybe even early 30s. He shouldn't be this oblivious. But let's say he is that dumb. Fine. Then what made Shikamaru think was EVER going to work? I get that Shikamaru is listening to Kashin Koji at this point. However, there better be some fallout from all of this. Orders or not, it's pretty clear Shikamaru made a mistake going through with this plan.

 

[Incecticyder]

The cover art this week is Moegi proper. It's much better than last week's cover art of Matsuri. Honestly, I like this design. Maybe it's only because we've rarely seen Moegi and most of her screen time is as a child, but for once Ikemoto's art actually made a character look better. Ikemoto has a habit of drawing faces with very profound cheeks and eyes that I've dubbed baby-face. It actually works here though as Moegi's hair provides a good frame for it and it doesn't look out of proportion. Her outfit is a simple black body suit with a Leaf Shinobi vest and some bracelets. She still has the stupid Ikemoto platform heels, but I've already screamed into the void enough about them. The reason I'm highlighting this is because it's one of the rare times I think Ikemoto has actually IMPROVED a character's designed. Usually they all come out worse.

That is rare but I am glad to see improvement.

The chapter starts in the sand village with Shinki talking with Araya. Shinki infuses Araya's sword with his chakra to allow it to control Iron Sand. Araya says this will give him the advantage while sparring and Shinki says it's better to have this handicap so someday he can better protect Gaara. Araya says he's always going on about his adopted father. He tells Shinki to give Yodo some more attention, insinuating Yodo has a thing for Shinki. Shinki however retorts with joking that Araya is a hypocrite because he always talks about Yodo. While this is a mostly innocuous scene, it -le gasp- actually has a reason for being shown.

They need to improve on the romance aspect. It is hard to get invested in couples when they feel like they are going nowhere. Also, yet another love triangle.

We cut back to the fighting in present day. Araya quickly dispels Ryu's Iron Sand and they begin the fight proper. Everyone focuses on attacking Ryu but they realize he can actually dissipate his entire body into Iron Sand. Yodo is still able to detect him however and Araya can reassemble him with his Iron Sand Sealing Sword. Ryu's in a bit of a pinch. Sarada follows up with a Chidori strike but while effective, it fails to put him down. The fighting choreography is actually quite easy to follow for a change. Everyone even gets a decent role to play with Yodo tracking him, Mitsuki restraining him, and Sarada dealing heavy attacks. One of the better fights so far.

It is the best fight in this arc by far. I do have problems with how things started though. Attacking obvious bait is stupid.

We cut to Matsuri and Konohamaru and she's pissed off he won't let her call him Konohamaru-chan. The cloth around her neck splits into hair like tendrils and they start surrounding his neck and strangling him and choking him. He insists it just doesn't feel right her and she demands to know why Moegi gets to call him that but she doesn't. Unfortunately this whole part seems kind of dumb if you aren't Japanese because of the honorifics thing.

Goddammit, just play the honeytrap and you will get your Moegi back you idiot. Let her call you donkey if it makes rescuing Moegi easier. Holy fuck, do they not teach that at ninja school?

We jump to Eida who is watching the fight and explains that she's not upset over not being able to call her by name but rather the relationship Moegi has that Matsuri does not. Eida chastises Konohamaru though for not understanding this. She explains the situation to Koji and Boruto. The others are holding their own but it's too early to tell how the fight will go but Konohamaru pissed off Matsuri and is about to be eaten. Koji tells Boruto to let it play out and not to jump in.

We did not need the explanation as to why Boruto cannot interfere. We talked about it before.

We cut to Jura telling Bug and Hidari that in his opinion, beings should strive to follow instincts to lead to further evolution. He goes on to explain that humans due to their social nature though bind themselves with reasoning to dull their instincts. He says that it's a negative consequence of human intelligence. According to Jura, not following instincts are a fatal flaw of humanity. The other consequence of intelligence, that even the Divine Trees are vulnerable to though, is love.

And there you have it. The boring "Love is a weakness" trope that will be told in the most boring way possible. They could have gone the more interesting route of "Love is a double-edged sword" but it looks like they will not. Exploring the circumstances that make love a strength and/or a weakness would be far better but I do not have faith in them doing such. At most the Trees will be like "love is a weakness" and the heroes will be "no, it is strength" and the Trees die realising they were wrong. That is what I dislike about artificially created villains. They almost always take that route.

Back to Matsuri, she tells Konohamaru that her head is constantly filled with thoughts of him. She doesn't understand why she has these feelings and it's driving her mad. Apparently even causing her pain. She thinks that if she can devour Konohamaru it will stop and she will never feel this way again. Jura chastises Team Ino Shika Cho for throwing their lives in danger to save Himawari despite it being illogical and insists love was responsible for their actions. Hidari asks what love is but Jura isn't sure himself. He just knows it's dangerous, even to them. He urges the others to overcome their feelings of love though in favor of their instincts.

I mean, they protected her because they did not want the Trees to win either. That is a reason too. Jura is portrayed as both dump and intelligent in a very schizophrenic way. We are meant to see him as charismatic and intelligent while also being a man who is naive and thinks he knows more than he does. He is boring.

Back at the fight with Ryu, he appears overhead and spawns several Claw Grimes. They try to fend them off before they even land, but there's too many. One of them bites Yodo and Araya instinctively attacks it. The sword however gets lodged in the Claw Grime and another Claw Grimes absorbs its body, taking Araya's sword with it. The chapter ends with them now completely defenseless from Ryu's Iron Sand and Matsuri prepares to devour Konohamaru.

Further proof that they jumped the gun way to fast. They knew that Claw Grimes are a thing and yet they still charged in like idiots.

Pretty decent chapter overall. It was pretty clear to me this was always where the stuff with the Trees would go. However, I think we took a lot of detours to get to the meat and potatoes of the actual story and conflict. Now it seems like Ikemoto did a bit of course correction to make the Divine Trees actual characters. If anything, Jura's characterization is a little inconsistent as he's always portrayed as being smarter and understanding more than he lets on, but I'm willing to sacrifice inconsistency for what we get instead. His point being driven home by Araya's instinctive reaction to protect someone he loves and putting them all in grave danger, really made for a good moment.

The detours are nice but I still feel too much was sacrificed. The story alternates between being too bloated and slow and fast and rushed with no in-between. Ikemoto probably did not expect the editor to tell him to accelerate.

If I had to gripe about something it's about Konohamaru. I'll give Ikemoto that he did state Konohamaru is a little daft when it comes to romance. However, he's an adult by now in his 20s. Late 20s. Maybe even early 30s. He shouldn't be this oblivious. But let's say he is that dumb. Fine. Then what made Shikamaru think was EVER going to work? I get that Shikamaru is listening to Kashin Koji at this point. However, there better be some fallout from all of this. Orders or not, it's pretty clear Shikamaru made a mistake going through with this plan.

Nearly every male character is daft on romance in Naruto and Boruto. Romance is not their strong suit but it hurts seeing them give teenagers and grown ass adults such a juvenile attitude on sexuality. It is either dense as an asexual rock or sniffs panties for men's attitude in this world while the women just pine for the former. Romance is either non-existent or off-screen. Also, Shikamaru is the worst genius ever. He should not have been made Hokage if they cannot write 200 IQ plans.

 

[Party Hat Wurmple]

They need to improve on the romance aspect. It is hard to get invested in couples when they feel like they are going nowhere. Also, yet another love triangle.

I let it go because Yodo are Araya are blank slates. They're one off side characters we probably won't spend much time with after this conflict. I'm just happy they're getting any characterization at all. Plus it's done with at least a little subtlety. It's not like they shove it down your throat. The romance wasn't really the point here. This scene was to set up Jura's monologue later which resulted in Araya losing his sword. It's not really for Araya's characterization, but rather Jura's. I give it credit because it's probably the only clever thing Ikemoto's done in this manga so far. Very few things end in consequences later down the line. They're usually just left hanging as loose strings. This ending in a consequence was at least earned a bit.

That is rare but I am glad to see improvement.

We're 3 for like 20 on designs so, anything is good. (I like Bug and Konohamaru's designs.)

It is the best fight in this arc by far. I do have problems with how things started though. Attacking obvious bait is stupid.

It is. But if you pair that with this chapter, then it becomes both Yodo and Araya's fault for not keeping their cool and getting everyone into bad situations. Yodo's love for Shinki ruining the mission and Araya's for Yodo leaving them defenseless.

Holy fuck, do they not teach that at ninja school?

It's the honorifics thing make it seem dumber than it arguably is. But yeah, Konohamaru bungled this.

The boring "Love is a weakness" trope that will be told in the most boring way possible. They could have gone the more interesting route of "Love is a double-edged sword" but it looks like they will not.

Personal romances suck in this manga. However, to be honest I think they are doing this "love is a double-edged sword" theme. Think about it. Kawaki's love for Naruto causes him to seal and imprison him and Hinata to save them. Amado's love for his daughter caused the Kara to become a thing. Eida's love for Kawaki caused Omnipotence. Sasuke's love for Sarada got him to go with Boruto and inevitably turned into a Tree. Kurama's love for Naruto caused his sacrifice. Eida's love never did any good for anyone. It's a thin, squint hard argument but you could argue love led to nothing good in Boruto if you pushed a square peg into a tight hole. That's also why I kind of think whatever the ultimate goal is won't happen at Jura's hand, but rather Bug's. Bug has no one to love and doesn't give a shit. So I guess calling it here: he'll be Black Zetsu.

 

[Incecticyder]

I let it go because Yodo are Araya are blank slates. They're one off side characters we probably won't spend much time with after this conflict. I'm just happy they're getting any characterization at all. Plus it's done with at least a little subtlety. It's not like they shove it down your throat. The romance wasn't really the point here. This scene was to set up Jura's monologue later which resulted in Araya losing his sword. It's not really for Araya's characterization, but rather Jura's. I give it credit because it's probably the only clever thing Ikemoto's done in this manga so far. Very few things end in consequences later down the line. They're usually just left hanging as loose strings. This ending in a consequence was at least earned a bit.

I would argue that there is no subtlety. I get that romance is not what this manga is about but people will be married by the end and the couples will not be developed. It is just like Team 7: Boy A is broody and does not have time for girls, Girl is in love with Boy A, Boy B is in love with Girl. It is just a bad sign. Ikemoto might treat the entirety of the relationships like that and that worries me. I just do not want a repeat of the Naruto romances.

It is. But if you pair that with this chapter, then it becomes both Yodo and Araya's fault for not keeping their cool and getting everyone into bad situations. Yodo's love for Shinki ruining the mission and Araya's for Yodo leaving them defenseless.

Veteran shinobi act like rookies all the time in this manga. It is frustrating. It makes it hard to cheer anyone on. I understand that it is to make Boruto look cool but still. If he needs to be surrounded by idiots to look cool, he ain't cool.

It's the honorifics thing make it seem dumber than it arguably is. But yeah, Konohamaru bungled this.

And he is supposed to be the leader of this operation too. You would think honey-traps would be one of the things one needs to do in order to pass the exams to Jonin at least. He is a Jonin, he is supposed to be more competent than this.

Personal romances suck in this manga. However, to be honest I think they are doing this "love is a double-edged sword" theme. Think about it. Kawaki's love for Naruto causes him to seal and imprison him and Hinata to save them. Amado's love for his daughter caused the Kara to become a thing. Eida's love for Kawaki caused Omnipotence. Sasuke's love for Sarada got him to go with Boruto and inevitably turned into a Tree. Kurama's love for Naruto caused his sacrifice. Eida's love never did any good for anyone. It's a thin, squint hard argument but you could argue love led to nothing good in Boruto if you pushed a square peg into a tight hole. That's also why I kind of think whatever the ultimate goal is won't happen at Jura's hand, but rather Bug's. Bug has no one to love and doesn't give a shit. So I guess calling it here: he'll be Black Zetsu.

It is hard to spin this to "love gives one strength" when it makes everyone act dump. No one acts like they have an IQ above 50 when in love in the manga. Ikemoto treats love like a gun that fires only upon its wielder. Whatever message the story will have, it will be bungled.

 

[Gorillion others]

Dudes and dudettes, everything just sounds like a mess now

 

[Gorillion others]

Or, remember that Kakashi went on a rampage during the 4th Shinobi War? Revenge is good then too. Some men you just can't reach.


It is almost funny how often they act like talking things out is the best solution but the series shows that the only times it works is vs a common enemy or to resolve misunderstandings. It is treated like a panacea but it only works on only a few situations.

The main reason why talk no jutsu became such a prolific meme is partly because of the fillers. A lot of them were resolved by Naruto just saying some deep shit that conveniently changed certain characters that helped resolve everything.