Naruto/Boruto Griefing Thread

[Chilson]

I doubt that was entirely last minute. I'm sure he had neglected orphan nobody is actually the dead hero's son as an idea from the beginning, he just didn't plan out any of the details of how that would work.

Kushina was entirely last minute thing that probably only came up after his editor asked about Naruto's mom.

It wouldn't even have been hard to write your way out of this. Just have it so Minato kept his family safe from the many enemies he made during the war by keeping them an absolute secret to everyone but the 3rd Hokage who also thought it was a good idea to keep his wife who hosts the nine tails on the down low at the same time.

A lot of the side non-canonical stuff often features Shikamaru and Chouji as being some of the first friends Naruto had as a child. Even Kiba is spliced in there every now and again as the gang of boiz that would that cause trouble. Which when juxtaposed against it, makes the swing set scene and the "everyone hates Naruto" scenes absolutely fucking hilarious. It'd be less egregious if Kishimoto didn't rely so heavily on non canon material though to be "character development".

This could have been done well if Shikamaru, Chouji and Kiba treated Naruto like shit and Naruto only stuck around because they were the only ones willing to spend any time with him even if he was being treated like garbage. This is sadly not unheard of behavior for lonely children to desperately hang on to toxic groups in order to feel any sense of inclusion in any social setting.

And boom, the 3rd hokage has an excuse for keeping this shit secret and sort of allowing Naruto's ostracization from the rest of the village to keep him safe. And why Naruto was both incredibly lonely and had a "group" to hang out with as a kid.

It took me 5 fucking minutes to come up with this shit, its not hard. Kishimoto is just a hack.

 

[Incecticyder]

Another problem with clothing in Boruto is how same-ish the designs are for an action comic. Nearly everyone is the guy wearing dark baggy/flowing clothes and uses Taijutsu style techniques making the fights seem confusing. Action comics use different color schemes/accessories/dress codes/attacks for combatants so that it is easy to follow the movements and tell who did what. This should go triple for an action manga that is drawn black and white making differentiating the characters in a distinct way so much more important.

It wouldn't even have been hard to write your way out of this. Just have it so Minato kept his family safe from the many enemies he made during the war by keeping them an absolute secret to everyone but the 3rd Hokage who also thought it was a good idea to keep his wife who hosts the nine tails on the down low at the same time.

True but Hiruzen should have kept his little atom bomb from being attacked by the villagers (especially since the seal becomes undone when he is in danger or angry) and he should have put a bodyguard or two on him.

This could have been done well if Shikamaru, Chouji and Kiba treated Naruto like shit and Naruto only stuck around because they were the only ones willing to spend any time with him even if he was being treated like garbage. This is sadly not unheard of behavior for lonely children to desperately hang on to toxic groups in order to feel any sense of inclusion in any social setting.

And boom, the 3rd hokage has an excuse for keeping this shit secret and sort of allowing Naruto's ostracization from the rest of the village to keep him safe. And why Naruto was both incredibly lonely and had a "group" to hang out with as a kid.

It took me 5 fucking minutes to come up with this shit, its not hard. Kishimoto is just a hack.

Also true but that would make the marketable characters come of as unlikeable and unsympathetic. It is better to keep a bunch of kind troublemakers that do not care what adults are thinking around than actually toxic people otherwise there is no justification for the fact that Naruto did not kill everyone when he got the chance. By having him be largely ostracised but retain some friends, you give him a reason not to become a missing-nin.

 

[Party Hat Wurmple]

This should go triple for an action manga that is drawn black and white making differentiating the characters in a distinct way so much more important.

You physically can't. Kishi/Ike's stupid fucking over designed to hell and back outfits made it IMPOSSIBLE to draw distinctions. That's why the fights in TBV are so terrible and hard to follow. Everyone is over designed to shit so everyone has to wear a black cloak or something so they can be drawn as blobs when they have to move. That's been EVERY. SINGLE. FIGHT SCENE. in TBV. The art is just bad. Ikemoto can't keep up with these designs. That's why there's so many close face up panels. That's why there's so many inconsistencies and mistakes. It's why Kawaki sometimes has belts on that he didn't before. Or why Boruto's hair is different.

I've covered this all before in previous posts but the honest to God truth is, Two Blue Vortex is just bad. It's not just bad as a sequel or Naruto story, it's a bad fucking comic. Hell, Linkara could review this and even he'd probably agree this is a bad comic. Any other manga not bearing the Boruto moniker would've gotten cancelled. In fact, better manga have gotten cancelled in under 30 chapters. It's quality is literally trash tier. But it has so many retarded faggots worshipping it's anus, they mass report videos on YouTube that actually call it out on its bullshit. I'm also half convinced many of its online fans are just bots. Boruto OG might suck, but at least it's not a terrible comic. I honestly believe Two Blue Vortex's is currently the worst manga Shounen Jump has running. Hence, why I made this thread in the first place

 

[TerminalTryHard]

It wouldn't even have been hard to write your way out of this. Just have it so Minato kept his family safe from the many enemies he made during the war by keeping them an absolute secret to everyone but the 3rd Hokage who also thought it was a good idea to keep his wife who hosts the nine tails on the down low at the same time.

True but Hiruzen should have kept his little atom bomb from being attacked by the villagers (especially since the seal becomes undone when he is in danger or angry) and he should have put a bodyguard or two on him.

You could actually combine these two by having the guard be the only other person who knows the truth about Naruto. His father's last surviving student, Kakashi. This would also go to explain why Sasuke who we are told is the top ranked student from the academy and Naruto the lowest ranked student are in the same squad together.

 

[Incecticyder]

You physically can't. Kishi/Ike's stupid fucking over designed to hell and back outfits made it IMPOSSIBLE to draw distinctions. That's why the fights in TBV are so terrible and hard to follow. Everyone is over designed to shit so everyone has to wear a black cloak or something so they can be drawn as blobs when they have to move. That's been EVERY. SINGLE. FIGHT SCENE. in TBV.

My point exactly. This is the reason as to why they should have differentiated the designes from the start and put thought as to who fights who.

Use one of Kishimoto rivals from his generation of mangaka: Kubo. Ichigo first fights were against monstrous spirits called Hollows that you would never mistake for Ichigo even in a slugfest.

Following that, he fought Soul Reapers that had the same uniform as him. What did Kubo do? Give everyone different shaped weapons with distinct abilities to clear out any confusion you might have and make his stronger opponents wear a white coat to further differentiate them.

Then, there were the Arrancar. They wear white, kinda futuristic uniforms (contrasting the black kimono of the Soul Reapers) and possess half masks and weirdly shaped weapon that grant them monstrous forms. Extremely different from the Soul Reapers making confusion nearly impossible. And Kubo plays with this too by giving Ulquiorra a black super form while Ichigo gets a mainly white one due to clothing damage, reversing the color schemes.

Afterwards, the Fullbringers that have mainly black color scheme which would be a problem but they dress in Western fashion which differentiates them from the Soul Reapers and Ichigo (mainly sleek black clothes) fights Ginjo (white skeleton motif).

Finally, The Wandenreich wear mainly white Western military uniforms which contrast well with the black Eastern based uniform of the Soul Reapers.

And let 's not get into One Piece which has a great variety on clothes, abilities and character designs.

Goku and Vegeta also had different colors schemes and styles and so did Naruto and Sasuke. That is why I say that Kishimoto forgot what he knew.

I've covered this all before in previous posts but the honest to God truth is, Two Blue Vortex is just bad. It's not just bad as a sequel or Naruto story, it's a bad fucking comic. Any other manga not bearing the Boruto moniker would've gotten cancelled. It's quality is literally trash tier. But it has so many retarded faggots worshipping it's anus, they mass report videos on YouTube that actually call it out on its bullshit. I'm also half convinced many of its online fans are just bots.

That is why I compared the Narutoverse to a manga that was axed early. Most other manga would have been canceled before they got footing if they messed up characterisation so badly and obviously.

You could actually combine these two by having the guard be the only other person who knows the truth about Naruto. His father's last surviving student, Kakashi. This would also go to explain why Sasuke who we are told is the top ranked student from the academy and Naruto the lowest ranked student are in the same squad together.

Stop making sense. You are embarassing Kishi.

Also, I am planning on making a bad manga thread in the future where we can talk about bad writing in manga and addressing how it could have been done better. No popular but heavily flawed series (e.g. Fairy Tail) as they have enough fans to derail the conversation and any series that got popular would not fit the criteria in the first place as they are still too good for what I am looking for. Thoughts?

 

[Party Hat Wurmple]

Also, I am planning on making a bad manga thread in the future where we can talk about bad writing in manga and addressing how it could have been done better. No popular but heavily flawed series (e.g. Fairy Tail) as they have enough fans to derail the conversation and any series that got popular would not fit the criteria in the first place as they are still too good for what I am looking for. Thoughts?

I have a soft spot for Fairy Tail because it's mangaka is very much on autopilot at this point and the stories he tells really aren't meant to be that groundbreaking. It's very clear to everyone at this point that he's aiming towards younger kids and is just writing the same story over and over again while doing different things to get there. It's hard to kind of fault the guy because he pumps out manga like a machine and his art is on point. These are a "ride" not so much a quality story.

 

[Gorillion others]

I have a soft spot for Fairy Tail because it's mangaka is very much on autopilot at this point and the stories he tells really aren't meant to be that groundbreaking. It's very clear to everyone at this point that he's aiming towards younger kids and is just writing the same story over and over again while doing different things to get there. It's hard to kind of fault the guy because he pumps out manga like a machine and his art is on point. These are a "ride" not so much a quality story.

I will give Eden's Zero some credit, because in the early parts of the story, the author subverted a lot of his usual themes and actually gave Shiki some real development. The early chapters were really dark and showed how harsh discrimination against robots was, as well as how incredibly bleak the setting was. He was a typical idiot in the beginning, but after his adventures, he wasn't nearly as naive and ignorant as he was before. What seems to differentiate him from Natsu is that Natsu remained an idiot, but Shiki actually manages to grow into a competent leader who still needed some help from his friends. Haru was the same, but he wasn't necessarily stupid.

 

[Gorillion others]

You could actually combine these two by having the guard be the only other person who knows the truth about Naruto. His father's last surviving student, Kakashi. This would also go to explain why Sasuke who we are told is the top ranked student from the academy and Naruto the lowest ranked student are in the same squad together.

But ya don't ged id, Kashi had PtsDLGBtQWPEJHO{CNOWNOWA, which was why he couldn't help take care of Nard. Hurr Durr!

 

[Incecticyder]

I have a soft spot for Fairy Tail because it's mangaka is very much on autopilot at this point and the stories he tells really aren't meant to be that groundbreaking. It's very clear to everyone at this point that he's aiming towards younger kids and is just writing the same story over and over again while doing different things to get there. It's hard to kind of fault the guy because he pumps out manga like a machine and his art is on point. These are a "ride" not so much a quality story.

Which is why I will make the rule that "No popular series are allowed to be discussed" in that thread. Both because a popular series will have higher quality than the true slop, they have many fans that will derail everything, you can have an entire thread about them and you should and everyone has discussed them to death anyway.

 

[Gorillion others]

Which is why I will make the rule that "No popular series are allowed to be discussed" in that thread. Both because a popular series will have higher quality than the true slop, they have many fans that will derail everything, you can have an entire thread about them and you should and everyone has discussed them to death anyway.

I almost forgot to ask. What was the name of that cancelled manga that you've been alluding to?

 

[Incecticyder]

I almost forgot to ask. What was the name of that cancelled manga that you've been alluding to?

It has not been fully translated but it has been said that it was recently axed:

https://w.mangairo.com/story-cr292377

Spoiler: A review, if you will...

Goes to show that even a new perspective on a tired formula can flop if you do not understand the nuanced differences between the vanilla version and the new angle. Treating the protagonists like normal underdogs while disregarding their mistakes or pretending that they handled thing perfectly or even somewhat well does not make for sympathetic characters, especially since as we find out that the exiled member was only injured in the first place because the rest of the party that were meant to protect him (vanguards are supposed to protect rearguards) was too uncoordinated, too lazy and/or held back. No introspection, no misgiving, no nothing. Their minds went to firing him even though there were other things they could try such as getting a fifth member or training their teamwork better rather than just alienating a friend.

Lead female is the exile 's childhood friend, party leader and former love interest but she makes the stupidest decisions with absolute confidence and without second thought or hearing anyone else 's opinion on the matter. Lead male caused a massive misunderstanding that he did not correct because he is an idiot and he was holding back in combat which is what caused the exile to be injured in the first place. The mage is the psycho lesbo that is gaga for the female lead at the expense of creating conflict between the party members for the horrible crime of being male and distracting her "love interest" with stupid stuff such as combat planning and conflict resolution. And she mocked the exile on the worst day of his life as he was being exiled. And she is lazy who also holds back which lead to the near death of the exile. Finally, there is the new party member. She is a dragon girl who is a battle junkie and goes into combat without care of who she hurts and does not have any interest in coordination and technique. She outgrows those flaws and becomes the only likable member of the party to the point you could argue she deserves a better one.

These guys have all the disfunction of the Konosuba protagonists without the things that make them likable, funny, competent or sympathetic. They should have broken up the moment their minds went to exiling their "friend" instead of doing anything to improve their tactics and bodies. There is no way to get behind them once they reveal how much they held back their power.

This story reminds me of late Naruto and Boruto (all of it) in the sense that it is a bunch of story/character elements that were inserted into an otherwise interesting premise without considering if they work well with each other. Imagine this: you cook a steak and IT IS PERFECT! Then you add melted white chocolate, lemon juice and vinegar on top of it. Steak = good, white chocolate = good, lemon juice = good, vinegar = good. However, when you put them together, they suck!

Kishimoto made the same mistake only an amateur would make with his story. Amateurish mistakes can be forgiven on amateurs, not on writers with pedigree.

 

[Gorillion others]

axed

I don't think I've even heard of this, nor seen it. And I frequent mangakakalot a lot.

 

[Stanley Ipkiss]

You can come up with any number of fixes to this shit show, but it's all pointless because Boruto did not need to exist in the first place. It's like the 4th part of any classic trilogy. Criticizing it is like offering cooking tips to someone who just threw a frozen pizza into the microwave.

I still maintain that Naruto was OVERALL an insanely good series that few others will ever measure up to, but it's pretty obvious that Kishimoto is just half-assing Boruto because they shoved a lot of money in his face. The only reaction I can have to it is apathy.

 

[Incecticyder]

I don't think I've even heard of this, nor seen it. And I frequent mangakakalot a lot.

Try it if you want to analyse a trainwreck. It had potential but the main characters are not introspective at all. The Exile genre is build on sympathetic exilee and unsympathetic exiler. Switching it up is fine but conventions exist because they work and this switched up the wrong things. It kept the parts where the party make shortsighted decisions, threw insults at the exiled and fired him for something that was not his fault but forgot to give a good reason as to why exile was the option that made most sense and also why they did not try anything else first. They went with the most drastic, needlessly cruel and unintentionally unsympathetic option they could and we are supposed to root for them when they did not even think that maybe, JUST MAYBE, they could have handled things differently. They are just toxic people who do not even realise it. The exile is lucky to get rid off them but we were stuck with them like a bad back.

I still maintain that Naruto was OVERALL an insanely good series that few others will ever measure up to, but it's pretty obvious that Kishimoto is just half-assing Boruto because they shoved a lot of money in his face. The only reaction I can have to it is apathy.

I prefer the term "appealing". Naruto had great appeal due to a relatable protagonist, an imaginative world, a promising cast, an interesting fighting system and a lot of potential. It just failed to live up to that immense potential and this was a problem even before Boruto. The existense of Boruto is not the problem, the failure to make it good is.

On a different note, I was watching a short by NCHammer23 where he said this:

And you know what? I agree. Apart from the fact that he is dismissing all the critism thrown at Himawari as sexism, he is right. Making Boruto a clone of his father in terms of abilities would suck! Himawari is a better choice. HOWEVER, Himawari is not living up to her potential. She is a descentant of both the Sage of Six Paths AND his brother, meaning she is almost godlike by birthright, she has the insane chakra of the Uzumaki, she had Byakugan since she was a toddler, she is a Gentle Fist/Taijutsu prodigy and she has a good relationship with Kurama meaning she should be able to use Cloak version 1 and possible 2 (imagine Gentle Fist with Chakra arms and claws). What is going on? Was she not trained all this time at all? She does not use the Byakugan or Gentle Fist even though she should be more familiar with those than any Biju ability and they should be her primary weapons at this time. We saw her knock out both Naruto AND Kurama in the Hokage corronation chapter which shows that Gentle Fist works on Biju too and she is facing one right now. Wasted potential.

 

[Chilson]

I still maintain that Naruto was OVERALL an insanely good series

Gonna have to put a big ol "NO" on this take. Naruto had great protentional and even delivered on that protentional (for the most part) up until after Sasuke went full edgy boy and bailed. Almost everything after that was a complete shitshow and that shitshow is like 70-80% of the entire series. I wouldn't call a steak where only 30% of it is properly cooked and the other 70% is so raw its dripping with blood a "good" steak by any definition.

 

[Stanley Ipkiss]

Gonna have to put a big ol "NO" on this take. Naruto had great protentional and even delivered on that protentional (for the most part) up until after Sasuke went full edgy boy and bailed. Almost everything after that was a complete shitshow and that shitshow is like 70-80% of the entire series. I wouldn't call a steak where only 30% of it is properly cooked and the other 70% is so raw its dripping with blood a "good" steak by any definition.

There was still some good shit up till the end of the Pain Arc where it really should've ended. Going by number of chapters it's more 65/35 good/bad to me, but the War arc being a single 200 chapter long arc skews it more in favor of good because it becomes so much better by just cutting "one arc".

Even if you do call it mediocre it's still leagues better than the vast majority of it's successors, all of whom never reached it's heights (Demon Slayer) and or had already begun to crash and burn after 200 chapters (FT, NNT, MHA, JJK, CSM, AOT).
I cut Kishimoto a lot of slack because it's just really really hard to keep something good for 300+ chapters and he got to 500. The day I see a manga created post Naruto that stays great for 600 chapters is the day I can Naruto anything less than good. Closest I saw was Tower of God and even it got kinda stupid by chapter 300 and unreadable by 450.

 

[Incecticyder]

Even if you do call it mediocre it's still leagues better than the vast majority of it's successors, all of whom never reached it's heights (Demon Slayer) and or had already begun to crash and burn after 200 chapters (FT, NNT, MHA, JJK, CSM, AOT).

The only reason that those manga "did not reach its heights" is that Naruto came out at the right time. Back then, anime were niche and subbers were fewer so they translated the most popular and wide appealing stuff. Nowadays, there are far more options for everything due to the internet being far more common and anime being more mainstream. The Big 3 were "right place, right time".

 

[Stanley Ipkiss]

The only reason that those manga "did not reach its heights" is that Naruto came out at the right time. Back then, anime were niche and subbers were fewer so they translated the most popular and wide appealing stuff. Nowadays, there are far more options for everything due to the internet being far more common and anime being more mainstream. The Big 3 were "right place, right time".

I'm talking quality not sales or whatever you're thinking of. Not many series can match the run of Waves-> Chuunin Exam->Sasuke Retrieval, and certainly none of the current popular ones.

The flipside to the "right place right time" argument is that anime becoming mainstream has given exposure to a lot of mediocre work that would've died a quiet death during the heyday of the Big 3 (See AOT, FT, NNT, DS). Lest we forget they were competing with works like Vagabond, HxH, Nana, 20th Century Boys, Death Note, Real, Gintama and Inuyasha off the top of my head.
There weren't 100s of YouTube videos dissecting every One Piece chapter nor were there Twitter users fawning over random side characters in the early-late 2000s or viral memes spreading awareness of them to the whole world within minutes. It was all niche forums and school discussions.
Yes there is more competition now but there are also far far more people watching/reading than ever before and the likes of JJK, while great, just aren't that much better than everyone else.

But I digress, I meant that early Naruto still shits on any current shounen in terms of quality.

 

[Incecticyder]

I'm talking quality not sales or whatever you're thinking of. Not many series can match the run of Waves-> Chuunin Exam->Sasuke Retrieval, and certainly none of the current popular ones.

You are talking about impact. And yes, those were amazing but part of what made them so great was the promise of greater things to come. A mediocre pay-off can taint a great set-up retroactively. Where is the worldbuilding that was set-up in the land of Waves? Non-ninja military organisations were retconed. The cast of the of the Chunnin Exam? Most were underutilised despite how interesting they were in both skill and personality. Though I would hesitate to call everything in Shippuden bad. Part 1 had its flaws and Part 2 had its strengths.

But I digress, I meant that early Naruto still shits on any current shounen in terms of quality.

If you get remove the things people do not like about a story, then that story is perfect. You cannot ask others to ignore flaws. We must take the good and the bad as sometimes the imperfections serve to improve on the strengths. And at the same time we have to accept the opposite. That the strengths can highlight the imperfections.

 

[Stanley Ipkiss]

You are talking about impact. And yes, those were amazing but part of what made them so great was the promise of greater things to come. A mediocre pay-off can taint a great set-up retroactively. Where is the worldbuilding that was set-up in the land of Waves? Non-ninja military organisations were retconed. The cast of the of the Chunnin Exam? Most were underutilised despite how interesting they were in both skill and personality. Though I would hesitate to call everything in Shippuden bad. Part 1 had its flaws and Part 2 had its strengths.


If you get remove the things people do not like about a story, then that story is perfect. You cannot ask others to ignore flaws. We must take the good and the bad as sometimes the imperfections serve to improve on the strengths. And at the same time we have to accept the opposite. That the strengths can highlight the imperfections.

Sure that's fair. Naruto is far from perfect and has major flaws. I just think considering it's length and the sheer volume of good it has, it averages out to a very good series overall, and one that's better than most others.
My reason for highlighting the early part is that it's about as long as the current popular ones are, and they've all simultaneously failed to be as good and also suffered large drops in quality, highlighting just how impressive works like Naruto, DB and One Piece are for staying that good for that long.