Naruto/Boruto Griefing Thread

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TerminalTryHard said:
I simply wouldn't have written her into the story at all.
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In an ideal world, I would agree but she was mandated by the higher ups. Kishimoto had not choice on whether or not he could put her in and only had power to choose how. That is why I blame only the execution on him and not the decision to impliment her.
 
Trollblade69 said:
No she wasn't. She exists because Kishi got bored with Madara and wanted to do something else.
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I have heard people saying both so I am not sure which is true. I am merely giving Kishimoto the benefit of a doubt as I feel like I might be tearing the guy to many new assholes. But the point still stands: no matter who asked for her, if she is to be part of the story, she ought to have been better.
 
Incecticyder said:
I have heard people saying both so I am not sure which is true. I am merely giving Kishimoto the benefit of a doubt as I feel like I might be tearing the guy to many new assholes. But the point still stands: no matter who asked for her, if she is to be part of the story, she ought to have been better.
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My assumption was like the whole ninja war arc Kishimoto was told to just keep the story going so they could milk as much money out of it as possible but no specific story beats were given.
 
TerminalTryHard said:
My assumption was like the whole ninja war arc Kishimoto was told to just keep the story going so they could milk as much money out of it as possible but no specific story beats were given.
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Maybe. But is this the best thing he could have come up? I would be fine if it was a subpar arc only because he was busy making the Madara/Kaguya fight better. The pay off was not enough.
 
Incecticyder said:
But is this the best thing he could have come up?
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Well, yes. Dumbass had spent the past few years keeping Naruto going for the sake of its own self-perpetuation rather than any creative spark. So no shit he'd pull the same kind of stunt you'd see out of Bleach by just making new powers and characters anytime you hit writer's block.
 
Trollblade69 said:
Well, yes. Dumbass had spent the past few years keeping Naruto going for the sake of its own self-perpetuation rather than any creative spark. So no shit he'd pull the same kind of stunt you'd see out of Bleach by just making new powers and characters anytime you hit writer's block.
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For Bleach, a lot of the thing were foreshadowed. Same goes for One Piece btw. Admitably, it can be hard to see it if you are reading weekly (unless you are really autisic or reread the story every now and then) but it is unfair to say powers come out of nowhere though I will admit Kubo 's failing health at the time of TYBW meant the resolutions he had in mind were skipped. But Kishimoto was given every chance imaginable as unlike One Piece, Naruto had a foothold overseas as well as Japan nor did he have the health issues Kubo had. What excuse did Kishimoto have? His greatest competition became better over time, he got worse.
 
Incecticyder said:
The story 's theme was "underdog that proved everyone wrong" but Kishimoto realised that he could not write that story and he switched it to a Christ allegory, made Naruto 's genes powerful to the point his family was wiped out and Naruto was a reincarnation of a demigod. Everything can be traced back to this: "Kishimoto realised he could not write this, so he abandoned it". He could not write 200 IQ fights, so Shikamaru was pushed out. He could not write underdog stories, so Lee was pushed out and Naruto became a demigod. He could not write women as characters on their own so he had them pine for a boy like a teenage girl would. He could not write Kaguya into the story organicaly, so he dropped her on it like brick.
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In Sakura's defense, it's actually a sad story. Kishi really liked her and didn't know why fans hated her. He then apparently spent hours researching writing teen girls and looking at novels to write her better. Unfortunately those novels were for fujoshi shoujo and not Shounen. So Sakura came out the way she did. The only thing about Five Kage Summit Sakura is that she listened to that autistic retard Sai who led her down that path. Her boneheaded decisions are all his fault. Post series Sakura though is awesome. She gets kidnapped by Shin and what does she do? She's already kicking his head in. She sneaks into the prison complex to help Sasuke posing as a nurse. Sure, the dino arc might not be great but watching Sakura and Sasuke work together doing actual ninja stuff is genuinely good to see. It's much more than we ever got for Hinata.

Speaking of which, Sai is another dropped piece of work....
 
Incecticyder said:
For Bleach, a lot of the thing were foreshadowed. Same goes for One Piece btw.
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I could say the same thing for Naruto. It still doesn't mean all three don't have asspulls or bullshit in their pages that the manga has attempted to backfill or use Bakuman-style "foreshadowing" to justify.

Party Hat Wurmple said:
Speaking of which, Sai is another dropped piece of work....
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Talk about a topic shift...
Sai is just another case of "missing the point". Kishimoto thought a walking sign saying "Naruto wants Sasuke back" would become a likable character if he just gave him a sad backstory. Then he just stopped using him because lolsidecharacters.
 
Party Hat Wurmple said:
In Sakura's defense, it's actually a sad story. Kishi really liked her and didn't know why fans hated her. He then apparently spent hours researching writing teen girls and looking at novels to write her better. Unfortunately those novels were for fujoshi shoujo and not Shounen. So Sakura came out the way she did. The only thing about Five Kage Summit Sakura is that she listened to that autistic retard Sai who led her down that path. Her boneheaded decisions are all his fault. Post series Sakura though is awesome. She gets kidnapped by Shin and what does she do? She's already kicking his head in. She sneaks into the prison complex to help Sasuke posing as a nurse. Sure, the dino arc might not be great but watching Sakura and Sasuke work together doing actual ninja stuff is genuinely good to see. It's much more than we ever got for Hinata.
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I respect Kishimoto for at least trying but Sakura is not the only problem. 90% of his women characters have the exact same thing in mind as first character trait: love interest. Do not get me wrong, love interests can flesh out a character but if most of his women have that trait as their defining one, they all feel kinda same-ish. It did work with Tsunade but a lot more were done with her than with Sakura/Ino/Hinata/Tenten/Konan.

Trollblade69 said:
I could say the same thing for Naruto. It still doesn't mean all three don't have asspulls or bullshit in their pages that the manga has attempted to backfill or use Bakuman-style "foreshadowing" to justify.
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Nope, you really can 't! Retcons ruined Naruto. Foreshadowing does not work when the world shifts every arc because the author cannot make up his mind about how things work and the only excuse as to why things changed is "I changed my mind". Otherwise, no matter how brilliantly you might think something was foreshadowed, I can point out that the author changes things willy nilly all the time without regard for thematic and character narrative. Kubo knew pretty much everything about the story of Bleach by the end of Soul Society arc and while Oda brings new ideas all the time into the world of One Piece, he puts thought about how to impliment them without breaking the worldbuilding and continuity. The Empty Throne for example was inspired by GoT which Oda was watching at the time but he spent time to think about where it would fit and would have propably been discarded it if he could not make it work.
 
Incecticyder said:
For Bleach, a lot of the thing were foreshadowed. Same goes for One Piece btw. Admitably, it can be hard to see it if you are reading weekly (unless you are really autisic or reread the story every now and then) but it is unfair to say powers come out of nowhere though I will admit Kubo 's failing health at the time of TYBW meant the resolutions he had in mind were skipped. But Kishimoto was given every chance imaginable as unlike One Piece, Naruto had a foothold overseas as well as Japan nor did he have the health issues Kubo had. What excuse did Kishimoto have? His greatest competition became better over time, he got worse.
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I think it just goes to show Kishimoto can't improvise. When he has time to plan and do rewrites you get the original Naruto, when he has to write something on the fly you get Kaguya.
 
I know bringing up fanfic faggotry is a can of worms most people would rather not open, but I've really got ask; what's up with the "teme" and "dobe" shit seemingly all fic writers have autistically latched onto? It's just so... random. Like why not have Sasuke say usuratonkachi instead? That's his iconic catchphrase after all. "Dobe" is something he has said only once in a very early episode. And has Naruto ever even said "teme" on the show?
 
RybenZ999 said:
I know bringing up fanfic faggotry is a can of worms most people would rather not open, but I've really got ask; what's up with the "teme" and "dobe" shit seemingly all fic writers have autistically latched onto? It's just so... random. Like why not have Sasuke say usuratonkachi instead? That's his iconic catchphrase after all. "Dobe" is something he has said only once in a very early episode. And has Naruto ever even said "teme" on the show?
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Can of worms indeed. This is not a fanfiction forum. But I will say this: If you expect fanfic writers to get characters right, you must be really green.
 
RybenZ999 said:
I know bringing up fanfic faggotry is a can of worms most people would rather not open, but I've really got ask; what's up with the "teme" and "dobe" shit seemingly all fic writers have autistically latched onto? It's just so... random. Like why not have Sasuke say usuratonkachi instead? That's his iconic catchphrase after all. "Dobe" is something he has said only once in a very early episode. And has Naruto ever even said "teme" on the show?
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The Naruto fanspace had a habit of just shoving gratuitous Japanese into every conversation as shibboleth, which included their fanfics. I'm surprised you didn't run into "Sandaime" or "Yondaime" first.
Also "usuratonkachi" didn't exist as a term they knew until the very end of the manga in late 2014.
 
Has anyone ever made a meme template of Kabuto reviving Sasuke and replacing his head with Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin and other mass murderers?
 
By the way, does anyone else think Two Blue Vortex, despite all of its flaws, is alot better than Boruto part 1? Boruto just feels like it's trying to evoke the same feelings as Naruto part 1, but fails miserably. At least TBV seems to be trying to be its own thing instead of being a lamer Shippuden.
 
RybenZ999 said:
By the way, does anyone else think Two Blue Vortex, despite all of its flaws, is alot better than Boruto part 1? Boruto just feels like it's trying to evoke the same feelings as Naruto part 1, but fails miserably. At least TBV seems to be trying to be its own thing instead of being a lamer Shippuden.
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It is too early to tell but considering that TBV just started and retcons are already happening to its inciting event, I am not too sure.
 
RybenZ999 said:
By the way, does anyone else think Two Blue Vortex, despite all of its flaws, is alot better than Boruto part 1? Boruto just feels like it's trying to evoke the same feelings as Naruto part 1, but fails miserably. At least TBV seems to be trying to be its own thing instead of being a lamer Shippuden.
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If it's "a lot better" than Boruto, that pretty much speaks volumes about its quality.
 
RybenZ999 said:
By the way, does anyone else think Two Blue Vortex, despite all of its flaws, is alot better than Boruto part 1? Boruto just feels like it's trying to evoke the same feelings as Naruto part 1, but fails miserably. At least TBV seems to be trying to be its own thing instead of being a lamer Shippuden.
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No. I read the entirety of Boruto Part 1 and there is absolutely NOTHING TBV does better. Boruto part 1 had parts I liked:

Kawaki and Naruto bonding was genuinely good stuff. Kawaki might be a punk, but he has a heart somewhere deep down and that's very evident.

Amado was an interesting antagonist. The fight against Jigen ending with a shadow clone from Kawaki was the perfect ending.

Boruto's characterization dealing with karma actually gave him some depth. He's got a bit of a death complex for someone who's never seen anyone die.

Code is a terrible villain, but for a brief time we had multiple villain factions with different agendas which is something we never had in Naruto.

When Omnipotence happens and Eida realizes what she did, she's IMMEDIATELY disgusting by Kawaki's behavior and turns on him.

I make that point last because the first thing TBV does in Chapter 1 is do a complete 180 on that like that never happened. Eida is back in Kawaki's corner with no explanation in between.

In TBV, Kawaki is a monster. He cares about no one and nothing, even if it makes people have doubts about if Omnipotence is true. Any goodwill is completely destroyed. He's not a threatening villain either. He gets bitch slapped in every chapter he's in so far. Mitsuki knocked him out with a fucking snake and has to hold back while training with him. He's a nuisance every time he's on panel.

In TBV, there hasn't been a good antagonist. Code was OG villain but he's been all but shoved aside for the Trees because he's also a pathetic embarrassment. The only hope is Jura who's okay at best. Tree Sasuke is the worst idea Kishi/Ike ever had. I didn't think you could get lower than Jiraiya's AWFULLY written clone, Kashin Koji, who is also inexplicably revived, but they did. Tree Sasuke is just a slap in the face to him and the fans. And for what? So we can get a couple more Chidori-Rasengans? Fuck you Kishimoto. Nobody wanted this and it wasn't needed.

In TBV we have no Boruto characterization. Maybe it's too soon to say it, but he doesn't do much. He shows up, acts cool, and then he's gone. If we want to be honest, we don't know all that much about him.

There's only one good moment in TBV and that's when the Trees pick their target, we get a genuinely intimidating panel of Bug choosing Eida while she's watching them. It's the ONLY good panel. Why do I mention this? Well, let that sink in - 10 chapters, 40 pages each, that's 400 pages. FOUR HUNDRED PAGES, longer than most graphic novels, longer than a majority of novels, and there's only ONE memorable moment. TBV has had 400 pages to do something memorable and we get ONE panel. Everything else is garbage. That's fucking pathetic. That's especially pathetic when you consider it's at least partially created by one of the most famous mangaka on the planet. TBV is so bad it's the whole reason I made this thread. There's no defending it.
 
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