MMA & UFC General - Featuring Bellator MMA & Rizin Fighting Federation

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Bolo_the_Second said:
Sure guys like Islam or Khamzat might have their fans, but they have the charisma of a doorknob, they don't do numbers with the normies, who don't have to pretend to be entertained when watching a guy being in half guard for 25 minutes.
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Their fans are TikTok generation/weird people who fetishise “mountain men” (very homosexual) or jeets/pakis aka worthless when it comes to viewed.

Saudis and oil/dictator money love them then though. Anything to pose next to them.
 
Slimy Time said:
Their fans are TikTok generation/weird people who fetishise “mountain men” (very homosexual) or jeets/pakis aka worthless when it comes to viewed.

Saudis and oil/dictator money love them then though. Anything to pose next to them.
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The jeets hate them dagistani folks, but the pakis love 'em, and since the Internet is nothing but jeets and pakis farming engagement, it creates the impression that people give more of a shit about them what the actuall reality does.

Just numbers wise, Khabib is by far the biggest star that came from that region, and while he does have the largest PPVin UFC's history, he was also sharing the stage with the biggest star the sport ever seen. Aside from that, none of Khabib's main events PPV crack the top 30.

I don't mind these guys, I know what I'm getting if I watch a Islam, or a Merab fight, I get that their pressure wrestle is effective and no one expects these guys to fight like Wanderlei Silva, fair enough. No one is forcing me to watch, and by round 3 of the JDM Islam fight I was mostly looking at my phone or talking to friends who also lost interest.

But have you watched any UFC promo, the ones they keep showing people being K.Oed? Yeah, that is what the product is being sold on, the very same product Paramount bought for 7 billions dollars, and the UFC has to deliver on their end.

The "hardcores" may cry about the "integrity" of the sport, but MMA always had that "carnival freak show" DNA, and if push comes to shove, they are going to favor the guy who might have a shot at being a star.

UFC is a commodity, and commodity follows money, simple as.
 
Bolo_the_Second said:
The "hardcores" may cry about the "integrity" of the sport, but MMA always had that "carnival freak show" DNA, and if push comes to shove, they are going to favor the guy who might have a shot at being a star.

UFC is a commodity, and commodity follows money, simple as.
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I hate that as a guy who also likes to think of things like "legacy". UFC shot themselves these few years in star making and now have to do some serious manufacturing to get these "stars". They wants them popular enough to sell but not big enough to try and jump to some serious money like boxing (which TKO is also trying to muscle in on using oil money to back them and recreate their UFC model).

Sport I think is in some serious dire straights with the lack of major star power that seems self inflicted. Who's left as a major star? Pereira is still massive but old. Still hoping on luring Jones or McGregor back in for one more? Ilia could be one but is flighty/already seems like he has other ideas. Paddy could be it but he's really not very good.

They also have the issue of lacking serious American talent as a company that is very much American in their identity (and very much in bed with the current administration) - can be traced mostly to the college wrestlers now finding other alternatives that pay much better. DC was recently caught on camera talking about how when he finished wrestling, he was getting paid something like 5k for a tournament, so obviously UFC/MMA is more lucrative. Now? Wrestlers paid 200-300k or thereabout. They again have to try and manufacture people like Bo Nickal and Joe Pyfer. Only have to see what Gable Steveson tried to do (NFL draft, then when that failed go to WWE, which he sucked at as well), then finally turning to MMA.
 
Bolo_the_Second said:
The jeets hate them dagistani folks, but the pakis love 'em, and since the Internet is nothing but jeets and pakis farming engagement, it creates the impression that people give more of a shit about them what the actuall reality does.

Just numbers wise, Khabib is by far the biggest star that came from that region, and while he does have the largest PPVin UFC's history, he was also sharing the stage with the biggest star the sport ever seen. Aside from that, none of Khabib's main events PPV crack the top 30.

I don't mind these guys, I know what I'm getting if I watch a Islam, or a Merab fight, I get that their pressure wrestle is effective and no one expects these guys to fight like Wanderlei Silva, fair enough. No one is forcing me to watch, and by round 3 of the JDM Islam fight I was mostly looking at my phone or talking to friends who also lost interest.

But have you watched any UFC promo, the ones they keep showing people being K.Oed? Yeah, that is what the product is being sold on, the very same product Paramount bought for 7 billions dollars, and the UFC has to deliver on their end.

The "hardcores" may cry about the "integrity" of the sport, but MMA always had that "carnival freak show" DNA, and if push comes to shove, they are going to favor the guy who might have a shot at being a star.

UFC is a commodity, and commodity follows money, simple as.
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It wouldn’t kill these dagestanis to learn some top position submissions and better ground and pound. From my perspective they tend to fight very safe, I even remeber khabib occasionally letting loose some tough ground and pound, but Chimaev seems terrified to give up any sort of advantageous position. He should’ve done a lot more damage to dricus but he was very afraid of escapes/submissions
 
Slimy Time said:
I hate that as a guy who also likes to think of things like "legacy". UFC shot themselves these few years in star making and now have to do some serious manufacturing to get these "stars". They wants them popular enough to sell but not big enough to try and jump to some serious money like boxing (which TKO is also trying to muscle in on using oil money to back them and recreate their UFC model).

Sport I think is in some serious dire straights with the lack of major star power that seems self inflicted. Who's left as a major star? Pereira is still massive but old. Still hoping on luring Jones or McGregor back in for one more? Ilia could be one but is flighty/already seems like he has other ideas. Paddy could be it but he's really not very good.

They also have the issue of lacking serious American talent as a company that is very much American in their identity (and very much in bed with the current administration) - can be traced mostly to the college wrestlers now finding other alternatives that pay much better. DC was recently caught on camera talking about how when he finished wrestling, he was getting paid something like 5k for a tournament, so obviously UFC/MMA is more lucrative. Now? Wrestlers paid 200-300k or thereabout. They again have to try and manufacture people like Bo Nickal and Joe Pyfer. Only have to see what Gable Steveson tried to do (NFL draft, then when that failed go to WWE, which he sucked at as well), then finally turning to MMA.
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Well, that is the big issue, how are you going to attract talent if your pay is utter shit?

If you have any athletic talents, you will obviously choose to play football/baseball/basket and, of course, boxing. And even in poor countries like Brazil, people chase soccer that pays way better. MMA is seen as a last resort avenue.

And being an mma professional sucks, the rate of injuries is way higher than any other sport, for a return that just isn't worth it, not to mention that the UFC's monopoly just makes thing worse for any regional fighter that has to go through a meat grinder just in the hopes against hopes that they might get Dana White's attention.

So that leaves mma as a viable professional sport to guys who are more accepting of the low pay. Behind closed doors, the UFC executives bemoan the fact that need to work with a bunch bearded of crouch sniffers, and wonder how the fuck they can market a guy like Islam, who can barely strings sentences and is always autistically staring at nothing, but it is their fault that the talent pool is so shallow that they have nothing to work with.

Dagestain doesn't have much as far as sports culture goes, but they have their sambo and wrestling, and they managed to work it in a way that nullifies the more striking orientated UFC that was popular in the early 2010. And while I don't think they have "dominated" the sport, their style certainly is the new "meta" and fighters from that region benefit from the fact they can live off from a fraction a professional athlete in the US makes.

So, given how low is the financial incentive is, true talent isn't going to show and try to overcome it.

So the UFC resorts to experiments like Sean O'malley or Paddy. Sure, they gave Sean the belt and even some defenses, but once they couldn't delay anymore, it hapened what we all knew it was going to happen, Merab humped him and now the division is being ruled over by a guy who has twice more decisions than finishes.

And while I don't hate Merab, good fucking luck selling his fights to the masses.
 
Guyspleasedontfight said:
It wouldn’t kill these dagestanis to learn some top position submissions and better ground and pound. From my perspective they tend to fight very safe, I even remeber khabib occasionally letting loose some tough ground and pound, but Chimaev seems terrified to give up any sort of advantageous position. He should’ve done a lot more damage to dricus but he was very afraid of escapes/submissions
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Oh they can do ground and pound, but not if the other guy can scramble or has any chance of turning it around.

Khabib was comfortable with that because the best fighters he faced, most of them had little to zero ground game, Justin didn't even know how to defend a triangle.

But they usually play safe, they don't take short notice fights, they circle around, use the takedown threat to keep aggression at bay, strike a jab and shoot, after that they search a sub, if the neck is tucked, they burn the clock.

Still, the Khamzat DDP fight was a extreme example. Khamzat plan was "fuck it, we gotta win no matter what" and barely tried anything besides wetblanket.

And in a way, Khamzat was right, because if you watch back, in R5, with the fight won, Khamzat tried to stand and trade with DDP, just to get cracked by a left hook, after that, the guy shot the double leg and didn't let go till the bell rang.
 
Bolo_the_Second said:
Sure guys like Islam or Khamzat might have their fans, but they have the charisma of a doorknob, they don't do numbers with the normies, who don't have to pretend to be entertained when watching a guy being in half guard for 25 minutes.
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Say whatever you want but I find Islam to be unintentionally funny and generally a chill dude, he's much, much more likeable than the forced meme UFC is push, aka Ilia the manlet cuckold.
But yeah Islam is right about how UFC either don't care or just being incompetent about promoting their fighters, other than demanding them to become conor clones. There are fighters who have intriguing backgrounds like Alexander Volkov, who actually has a rocket science degree from Bauman Moscow State Technical University which is basically the Russian MIT, but UFC has done absolutely nothing to make fans aware of this. I'm quite certain that UFC has been like this since the beginning and the only person they'd actually bother promoting is Dana himself.
 
Not really thrilled about Volk having to fight Lopez again. Would of rather seen him fight Evloev or Murphey. Hopefully he can get through the Lopez fight with a win and not too much damage.

Ideally I'd like to see Volk defend his belt twice more and then have a super fight against Merab at featherweight provided that Merab keeps cleaning out 135. And then Volk retires.
 
businessman12345 said:
Especially this being in Australia, it's basically set up for him to retire here. Though I believe the up and comers in 145 are good matchups for Volk, but age will catch up at some point.
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I don't really want him to retire unless his heart isn't in it or his body is shot. Win or lose, another Lopez fight isn't the best way to retire although it's in Volks home town.

His career has pretty much been a crazy run to the belt, lots of defenses and a superfight. If he did lose, I think there's fun fights he can have that aren't champ fights. As long as he wants to fight and he's getting a good pay day.
 
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Bolo_the_Second said:
But reddit told me Aspinall was just being a bitch.

On a serious note, when the UFC is going to crack down on these eye pokers?
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MMA is not a real sport, so never. The UFC is not interested in making an actual sports league, but a TV show (something I don't necessarily dislike btw)
Hopefully the NSAC forces them to do something
 
Bolo_the_Second said:
If you have any athletic talents, you will obviously choose to play football/baseball/basket and, of course, boxing. And even in poor countries like Brazil, people chase soccer that pays way better. MMA is seen as a last resort avenue.
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Which explains why so many of these guys take last minute fights, which in boxing is a not a thing, to grab as much money as possible despite the high risk. On a related note in an interview between Mighty Mouse and Max Holloway both agreed that MMA is the easiest sport to be a champion in because you can have deficits in other areas but if you're phenomenal in one area and can implement that over your opponent, you can win. The recent domination of wrestlefucking is the prime example in my mind.
 
Bolo_the_Second said:
But reddit told me Aspinall was just being a bitch.

On a serious note, when the UFC is going to crack down on these eye pokers?
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What I think could fix the issue with eyepokes, and fouls in general, is to have points for fouls that are a persistent part of a fighter's professional record, like points on a driving licence. Some fouls are indeed unintentional – although whether or not a point is deducted immediately from a fighter's score in a given should depend on how badly a foul compromises the fighter on the receiving end, not the intention of the fouler – but if a fighter consistently commits fouls, even 'unintentionally', then that would force them to change their technique or be at greater risk of being penalised by in-fight point deductions in future fights. The 'licence points' could be counted after each fight's conclusion by a review panel of referees, and also be removed as foul-free time in the octagon is accumulated.
 
I forgot what federation recently announced it, maybe it was KSW, but they’re going to start also deducting a point immediately for missing weight. Maybe if a fight ends in NC due to eye poke, a percentage of the fight money is given to the one who received the eye poke? You start fucking with people’s money, you start seeing results.
 
Sean_Igger said:
Which explains why so many of these guys take last minute fights, which in boxing is a not a thing, to grab as much money as possible despite the high risk. On a related note in an interview between Mighty Mouse and Max Holloway both agreed that MMA is the easiest sport to be a champion in because you can have deficits in other areas but if you're phenomenal in one area and can implement that over your opponent, you can win. The recent domination of wrestlefucking is the prime example in my mind.
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Yes, that and the fact that styles makes matches, and wrestling beats striking 8 out 10 times.

To give some visuals:



A micro second earlier and DDP's knee would have connected to Chimaev's temple and that would be it, he would be out cold in the floor. But it wasn't and Chimaev managed to chin it and shoved his head into DDP's balls.

As it is now, a striker needs to know wrestling to survive a ground fight, but a wrestler doesn't need striking skills to win, they just gotta chin shots and grab legs.

I mean, have you seen Khabib trying to stike? amateurish doesn't quite describe it.

Sure, that is the game, but the advantage is clearly the wrestler's, if you have a good take down and strong enough to position hold, you are golden, while the striker needs a precise and short window of opportunity to win.

And sure, some big minds over reddit can just say "DDP needs a entire camp just to wrestling, dagestain 2-3 and forget bratha" and retarded shit like that.

But that ain't the fucking issue, DDP isn't a noob when it comes to ground game, he does have some decent BJJ, but you will never close a skill gap against a guy like Chimaev, who has been wrestling since he could fucking walk, who trains with olympic wrestlers since he was a teenager and who doesn't need any other tools to win, because even if you call him a one trick pony crotch sniffer, he is the one who won the belt.

And now we have this fucking conundrum, the UFC wants guys like Alex Pereira as champions because he can drop motherfuckers with a punch, it looks great in promos and people want to watch that, but the sport benefits guys who can position wrestle like Merab, and the only way to beat a Merab is a better grappler, like Umar, another caucasus guy with more decision than finishes, who just went to a boring decision fight with Mauro Bautista, one the most boring fighters in the entire roster. You get the picture.

I'm not one of those guys who goes "the dagestani are destroying the UFC!!!!" because there is a bunch of good fighters and fights out there, but if you gonna look at the top level competition, you start to see where the style and skill gap starts to be evident, and then you get to the wrestlefuck domination.

It is what it is, if anything, I can just go over to Rizin or One for some fun, the wrestlefuckers can have all the belts in the world, I don't really care.
 
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My biggest wish is that grounding/control rules would be looked into. You need to actively be trying to do something when you have control. Using DPP/Chimaev as a prime example, how the fuck are you going to hold onto a crucifix for that long and do nothing with it? Those little pitter-patter pawing attempts don’t count for anything. If the position was taken but there’s no submission being applied or damage being done after a period of time, stand them the fuck up. If they inevitably get taken back to the ground, cool. Takedowns.

I don’t mind wrestling, quite the opposite really. What I do mind is when 23 minutes of a bout 25 minute bout are spent being a wet blanket and nothing else, securing a “dominant” victory.

I am so underwhelmed that I forgot that Short King UFC is on this weekend. Barring the Jan fight in the main card, everyone is 5’7” or shorter (correction, Talbott is 5’10”, but no one cares). 2 fucking Bantam and Flyweight bouts, and one LHW. lol, shit is dire. Hoping to be pleasantly surprised.
 
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