MMA & UFC General - Featuring Bellator MMA & Rizin Fighting Federation

[You're a Big Guy]

Francis has proven POWER>>>>everything. Gane and France in SHAMBLES

 

[Slimy Time]

Francis has proven POWER>>>>everything. Gane and France in SHAMBLES

Shit...I can't get the knockout, wait, I'm the strongest man in the heavyweight division, why don't I just throw this 240 pound man around like it's nothing. Give Gane credit, he made it to the end of a fight with Francis without looking like some folded up laundry.
Apparently if you bet on Francis to win by decision, you were looking at a 10x payout on this one.

Fuck, i hope the aussie finally defeats trannybender next month
For some god forsaken reason trannybender has the ability to drop his opponents iq just like khabid

We can only hope. I don't enjoy seeing him engage in his sexual fetish for large, roided out men in the octagon.

 

[naffatune]

Moreno and Figi are probably fighting again by the looks of it.

On a side note. I hope Ngannou ends Gane's career.

Yeah, it seems like they're going to fight again. After all, it'll be the first time the UFC does a fourth "rivalry" fight.

I just hope that Moreno and Figgy improve their styles more drastically this time. It seems like they were almost the same as they were in the second fight, except this time, Figueiredo had better head movement and Moreno styled on Fig with that spinning hook kick to the leg four times.

Also, Said Nurmagomedov is a fighter I'm looking forward to seeing again. That guy's a clone of Zabit, I swear.

 

[WutangLee]

Yeah, it seems like they're going to fight again. After all, it'll be the first time the UFC does a fourth "rivalry" fight.

I just hope that Moreno and Figgy improve their styles more drastically this time. It seems like they were almost the same as they were in the second fight, except this time, Figueiredo had better head movement and Moreno styled on Fig with that spinning hook kick to the leg four times.

Also, Said Nurmagomedov is a fighter I'm looking forward to seeing again. That guy's a clone of Zabit, I swear.

moreno has to improve his. He took too many leg shots in the first 2 rounds, if Figi had pushed the initiative to finish them off he wouldn't have needed to risk the decision.

Apparently if you bet on Francis to win by decision, you were looking at a 10x payout on this one.

I was shocked too see Francis was not only the underdog, but they honestly had the audacity to say Francis wouldn't wrestle fuck and dirty box him. He's been at Xtreme Couture for 3 years, that's their trademark answer to people wanting to point fuck you. Randy did it against Gonzaga and tried doing it against Lesnar (why he tried that on a D1 wrestler we'll never know)

 

[Slimy Time]

I was shocked too see Francis was not only the underdog, but they honestly had the audacity to say Francis wouldn't wrestle fuck and dirty box him. He's been at Xtreme Couture for 3 years, that's their trademark answer to people wanting to point fuck you. Randy did it against Gonzaga and tried doing it against Lesnar (why he tried that on a D1 wrestler we'll never know)

Xtreme Couture guys I think of as decently well rounded, if only hampered by a lack of depth to their game. Dan Ige is one of their fighters and he's constantly coming in with bad gameplans (just watch the Zombie fight, terrible gameplan), just kinda doing the same thing he always does. The corner advice from Nicsick does seem to always be solid and generally their fighters will do exactly what they are asked of in between rounds. They say throw to the body and level change, Francis does that. But you aren't going to see subtle feints and clever footwork from them imo.

Switch up was nice from Ngannou seeing as how by round 2 it was starting to look like every Gane fight of him hitting his opponent and making them swing at air.

 

[naffatune]

moreno has to improve his. He took too many leg shots in the first 2 rounds, if Figi had pushed the initiative to finish them off he wouldn't have needed to risk the decision.

Moreno still has quite a bit to improve. He throws his jab from too far away, which is a big shame because it's the fastest and snappiest jab in the UFC imo. In fact, he's usually a bit too far away to even land his straight punches; it's almost like he can't gauge whether or not he's in mid-range. This was how Fig was able to chop his front leg several times without getting consistently countered. On top of that, Moreno swings his left hook too wide, and moronically charged in fast at times which allowed Fig to shoot for singles or doubles.

Oh, and lastly, I'd like to say that Michel Pereira got robbed pretty bad, literally. The guy got no bonus, even though he clearly deserved it. Go watch his fight with Fialho if you haven't already done so.

 

[JamusActimus]

Oh, and lastly, I'd like to say that Michel Pereira got robbed pretty bad, literally. The guy got no bonus, even though he clearly deserved it. Go watch his fight with Fialho if you haven't already done so.

Fialho is so one note and one dimensional tho. He's very limited imo.

 

[naffatune]

Fialho is so one note and one dimensional tho. He's very limited imo.

Lol I know. Fialho is kind of shy and the negative head movement doesn't help. But Pereira styled on Fialho so hard and got away with all of it that I can't help but say he deserves something for that. Besides, O'Malley got an award for dusting Moutinho in the same way, so...

 

[Slimy Time]

Moreno still has quite a bit to improve. He throws his jab from too far away, which is a big shame because it's the fastest and snappiest jab in the UFC imo. In fact, he's usually a bit too far away to even land his straight punches; it's almost like he can't gauge whether or not he's in mid-range. This was how Fig was able to chop his front leg several times without getting consistently countered. On top of that, Moreno swings his left hook too wide, and moronically charged in fast at times which allowed Fig to shoot for singles or doubles.

Agree that he's got the best jab form/snap wise in the UFC. Rewatching this 3rd fight is hard since so much happens in each round, keep forgetting what happens at the start of it (commentary off, of course, since the podcasters can't stop sucking Moreno off).

The one thing I noticed when watching live is how Fig relied on feints quite a bit, to the point where I went "he's starting to remind me of Volkanovski" while watching live. That was definitely a key factor in him landing those leg kicks with the success he did, because when he threw them blind, Moreno defended them using the Aldo leg hinge. Opening of round 3 is a good example. Jab feint, shoulder feint, jab feint, half beat pause, full speed jab feint into leg kick, while Moreno was shelling up expecting a bombing right hand. I think that is what really fucked with Moreno's sense of distance and the midrange, leading to him doing wild run ins at times.

Another one from the same round, around 3:35 - Fig does the shoulder feint, short break, steps forward into southpaw as if he's going throw a big hand but doesn't, Moreno throws the wild left hook to check him, it misses. Fig blasts him with the body kick and then ducks under the return left hook, switching back to orthodox. Moreno then pursues with a jab, and gets hit with Fig's left hook which sends him reeling off balance and needing to roll out to recover.

Just seemed to dictate exchanges with the feints a lot and led to Moreno being unsure of distance. It's when he stopped doing it and went back to wild man Fig that he gets clipped and Moreno has some moments.

 

[East_Clintwood]

Curious to see where this ends up, because I might be tempted to go. Haven't been to a live UFC event in fucking forever but this could be a banger.

 

[I.B. Niggin]

Oliveira is on absolute fire but I hope Gaethje can sleep him. His run in WSOF made me a fan for life and it'd be nice if he could get the top belt in MMA, even if he doesn't even make a successful defense.

 

[Blue Frog]

If Charles defends again against Gaethje, where do you guys see him in the conversation for the best lightweights ever?

I could easily see him being around in the top 5.

 

[Slimy Time]

If Charles defends again against Gaethje, where do you guys see him in the conversation for the best lightweights ever?

Really gay and meaningless conversation to have tbh. He will probably go down as one of if not the most exciting lightweight champions there have been. He is the Robbie Lawler of the division. A veteran fighter who wins the belt and then has a number of exciting action fights with the other action fighters in the division during his title run (Chandler, Poirier, Gaethje), and in that sense he can and should be appreciated as the champ, for however long it lasts.

I think I can say that I would prefer having him than the person everyone expects to take over as the next long reigning champ - Islam Makhachev. I just can't stand the idea of that man being champion. He's Khabib if you take away everything fun about Khabib, and instead just make him Khabib's baby brother. He's not fun on the mic, he doesn't talk during fights, he doesn't have the physical presence that Khabib does. He is the "technical" Dagestani wrestler who takes his opponent down, forces them into positions he wants, knows that there are only a select number of ways to respond to being in those positions, and has a set submission that he will hit on his opponent once they move that way.

You can't even go "wow, this guy is a technical wizz" because he has Khabib in his corner, and also his shadow hanging over him. He cannot shake it. Even promos involving him are more about Khabib than him. Just...I really don't want him to be champion.

 

[Blue Frog]

Really gay and meaningless conversation to have tbh. He will probably go down as one of if not the most exciting lightweight champions there have been. He is the Robbie Lawler of the division. A veteran fighter who wins the belt and then has a number of exciting action fights with the other action fighters in the division during his title run (Chandler, Poirier, Gaethje), and in that sense he can and should be appreciated as the champ, for however long it lasts.

I think I can say that I would prefer having him than the person everyone expects to take over as the next long reigning champ - Islam Makhachev. I just can't stand the idea of that man being champion. He's Khabib if you take away everything fun about Khabib, and instead just make him Khabib's baby brother. He's not fun on the mic, he doesn't talk during fights, he doesn't have the physical presence that Khabib does. He is the "technical" Dagestani wrestler who takes his opponent down, forces them into positions he wants, knows that there are only a select number of ways to respond to being in those positions, and has a set submission that he will hit on his opponent once they move that way.

You can't even go "wow, this guy is a technical wizz" because he has Khabib in his corner, and also his shadow hanging over him. He cannot shake it. Even promos involving him are more about Khabib than him. Just...I really don't want him to be champion.

Fair enough, who would you want to be champion then?

 

[Slimy Time]

Fair enough, who would you want to be champion then?

I would rather Oliveira keeps it and builds up a legacy for a good length of time. He's guaranteed fun. Maybe someone like Fiziev or one of the guys down the ranks slowly working their way up. In terms of fun up and comers it's Fiziev, Gamrot and Tsarukyan.

 

[naffatune]

If Charles defends again against Gaethje, where do you guys see him in the conversation for the best lightweights ever?

I could easily see him being around in the top 5.

In terms of raw skill, I'd say Oliveira would be in the #6 - #10 range, mostly because his striking defense (e.g. head movement, parrying and blocking) is bad due to his poor eyesight. He also seems to have trouble gauging distance, since there's this one moment in his fight with Poirier where he threw a front kick in punching range, and got countered with a rear hand very quick. On top of that, Chandler clipped Oliveira hard twice in their fight, dropping him the second time he did it.

This isn't to say that Oliveira is unskilled. His punches are tight, he capitalizes on takedown opportunities very well (which he gets by feinting with his hands or waiting for his opponent to swing hard), and of course, you can't ignore the jiu-jitsu.

That being said, I think Gaethje will gives Oliveira lots of crap, and even if he wins, he'll take a good deal of punishment. I don't even think Oliveira will last that long as a champion. In fact, I'm projecting that he'll retire 3 years from now due to a deterioration in eyesight, ending in a sad TKO a bit similar to the way Bisping's career ended.

On the bright side, Jeremy Stephens is about to become the BKFC's Conor McGregor, so that's something to look forward to.

 

[Slimy Time]

In terms of raw skill, I'd say Oliveira would be in the #6 - #10 range, mostly because his striking defense (e.g. head movement, parrying and blocking) is bad due to his poor eyesight. He also seems to have trouble gauging distance, since there's this one moment in his fight with Poirier where he threw a front kick in punching range, and got countered with a rear hand very quick. On top of that, Chandler clipped Oliveira hard twice in their fight, dropping him the second time he did it.

This isn't to say that Oliveira is unskilled. His punches are tight, he capitalizes on takedown opportunities very well (which he gets by feinting with his hands or waiting for his opponent to swing hard), and of course, you can't ignore the jiu-jitsu.

That being said, I think Gaethje will gives Oliveira lots of crap, and even if he wins, he'll take a good deal of punishment. I don't even think Oliveira will last that long as a champion. In fact, I'm projecting that he'll retire 3 years from now due to a deterioration in eyesight, ending in a sad TKO a bit similar to the way Bisping's career ended.

On the bright side, Jeremy Stephens is about to become the BKFC's Conor McGregor, so that's something to look forward to.

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His poor eyesight (which apparently causes him to see 3 people in the cage) is probably why he fights the way he does. Last thing he wants to be in is a long, 25 minute technical fight where he has to fight from range, so he uses the clinch, fights in close, wrestles, does bjj shit etc. Problem for him is that Gaethje used to be the same as him, almost blind, and since correcting his eyes and following Wittman he's become a great "technical brawler". He puts on the fight of the year against Chandler, yet Chandler comes out looking like someone put his face against a buzzsaw, while Gaethje seemed fine, minus a bad leg from all the kicks he took/gave.

If your prediction on Oliveira not lasting long is correct, then the Lawler comparison becomes even closer. Just a pure action fighter who reached the top and fights other action fighters for the belt. Never a boring fight.

Thoughts on Makhachev as a potential champ? I personally really don't like the idea of having him as the champ for the reasons stated above. He's baby Khabib with none of the things that made Khabib fun, either as a character or a fighter, and with the former champ in his corner, he's probably not going to get as much respect as his coach will for training/grooming him into the position. Someone like Khamzat is at least fun for now, and he's a physical specimen. Islam? Boring.

 

[naffatune]

Thoughts on Makhachev as a potential champ? I personally really don't like the idea of having him as the champ for the reasons stated above. He's baby Khabib with none of the things that made Khabib fun, either as a character or a fighter, and with the former champ in his corner, he's probably not going to get as much respect as his coach will for training/grooming him into the position. Someone like Khamzat is at least fun for now, and he's a physical specimen. Islam? Boring.

I haven't watched a lot of Makhachev, but judging from his fight with Moises, calling him "baby Khabib" is kind of a mistake.

When it comes to striking, Makhachev and Khabib are clearly different. First of all, Makhachev is a southpaw. His striking is also much more cleaner than Khabib's, since he measures distance with his lead hand, keeps his hands up by his chin and the elbows tucked, throws tight combinations, and has super fast rear kicks to the head and body. His footwork is also pretty solid, and he uses that to avoid punches easily.

Makhachev is the guy who is the most likely to beat Oliveira in my opinion, probably by a UD. His hands are pretty fast, and that already gives Oliveira some major issues. Islam's wrestling is questionable though. It seems like he doesn't care about taking people down against the fence all time, which was important for Khabib since it limited the space that the opponent had to make an escape or get a submission. It also gave Beeb the opportunity to throw hammers like there was no tomorrow.

So, if Makhachev stupidly takes Charles down on open ground, that's Do Bronx's opportunity to win. But since Khabib and guys like him are in his corner, they will advise against this, and instruct him to use his striking to push Do Bronx against the fence, and then take him down. So, in my view, Makhachev boxes Oliveira's face, throws some kicks, pressures with the striking until Charles is against the fence, and probably go for takedowns to get some ground-and-pound going, then that'll be it.

So, yeah. Islam becomes champion. I don't think he's that boring honestly; he's solid in a lot of areas and that's always cool to watch. But when Khamzat and him finally go toe-to-toe (if they agree to it) I think this is where Islam has a rough time.

 

[Slimy Time]

I haven't watched a lot of Makhachev, but judging from his fight with Moises, calling him "baby Khabib" is kind of a mistake.

When it comes to striking, Makhachev and Khabib are clearly different. First of all, Makhachev is a southpaw. His striking is also much more cleaner than Khabib's, since he measures distance with his lead hand, keeps his hands up by his chin and the elbows tucked, throws tight combinations, and has super fast rear kicks to the head and body. His footwork is also pretty solid, and he uses that to avoid punches easily.

Makhachev is the guy who is the most likely to beat Oliveira in my opinion, probably by a UD. His hands are pretty fast, and that already gives Oliveira some major issues. Islam's wrestling is questionable though. It seems like he doesn't care about taking people down against the fence all time, which was important for Khabib since it limited the space that the opponent had to make an escape or get a submission. It also gave Beeb the opportunity to throw hammers like there was no tomorrow.

So, if Makhachev stupidly takes Charles down on open ground, that's Do Bronx's opportunity to win. But since Khabib and guys like him are in his corner, they will advise against this, and instruct him to use his striking to push Do Bronx against the fence, and then take him down. So, in my view, Makhachev boxes Oliveira's face, throws some kicks, pressures with the striking until Charles is against the fence, and probably go for takedowns to get some ground-and-pound going, then that'll be it.

So, yeah. Islam becomes champion. I don't think he's that boring honestly; he's solid in a lot of areas and that's always cool to watch. But when Khamzat and him finally go toe-to-toe (if they agree to it) I think this is where Islam has a rough time.

See for me, his tighter striking and less wild man tendencies than Khabib is a function of his lack of comparable ridiculous athleticism. To me, he's like the Sergio Pettis to Khabib's Anthony. He has no choice but to be super technical and safe, both on the feet and in his wrestling, because he can't get away doing ridiculous things. His fight against Martins (his only loss), he tries to be a bit of a wild man, throws a massive overhand against a fellow southpaw, and gets instantly killed by a counter lead hook. The lack of fence takedowns and lack of GnP also indicates to me a lack of physicality/great athleticism. It takes both great technique and strength to hold someone against the fence while dropping bombs, and I don't think he can do it.

For me, I watch him and go "this guy is technical...but I wish I was just watching his far more fun coach Khabib". It's why I find Khamzat far more fun, even if he's relatively untested. The man is a physical freak. He deads Meerchaart in one punch, he picks up Jingliang by a rear waist cinch, holds him in mid air, walks to Dana White/commentary booth, slams him down and puts him out quick. Something intriguing about watching him.

All that and credit no doubt being passes off to Khabib being in his corner over Islam's own achievements, and I just don't like the idea of continuity, knockoff Khabib as champ.

 

[PonPonPataPon]

This is in complete fanfiction territory, but I wish Charlie would beat everyone by submission including Macklechef, forcing Islam's superior out of retirement for his 30th match.