Military Equipment Sperging Thread - The Tiger II is a better tank than the M1 Abrams edition

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Falcos_Commisar said:
The VAST majority of FPV drones are maxing out at 20km one way and according to both sides it's usually 10km to maybe 15km.

Fiber optic FPV drones are almost all capped at 20km (or 10km) die to the fiber spool taking up too much weight and bulk.

Plus, a lot of wireless drones end up interfering with each other and causing issues. So you're limited on how many wireless ones you can have up at once

If you see Ukrainian videos of failed Russian attacks, the FPV drones usually take out fewer vehicles than artillery or mines.

Massive sci-fi drone swarms are only happening once generative AI weighs at or under 1kg and can be be powered by a ~99 watt hour battery and still allow 20-45 minutes of flight / loiter time.
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Oh yeah. If there's anything that has been 100% vindicated by this war, it's that artillery still is and probably always will be king.
 
Sleazy Car Salesman said:
Not really. Drones are still tied to the infantry and can't outrun them or range too far from them. Plus they can't carry SOF guys. Scout helicopters are still faster and much longer ranged and can carry useful munitions without the prerequisite of also being the munitions.

Cavalry is going to get a lot more use from a scout helo than a drone assuming you aren't fighting Iran/Iraq War 2.0 which is what Ukraine is.
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Optimistic.

Scout helicopter is a big buzzing target and if you're thinking of 4-6 SF guys buzzing in on a Little Bird then they're SoL as those helicopters usually only carry machine guns.

Ukraine has shown that SF actually aren't THAT useful in conventional wars as once they face larger / heavier units and weapons than Johnny Jihadi and his AKs and maybe a PKM/RPG-7 they end up getting killed in a lot greater numbers.

Both Russia and Ukraine burned through a LOT of SF types in the first year of the war and they've been using them mostly as light infantry ever since.

A Ukranian SF small boat insertion in Crimea went VERY badly and got 1-2 RHIBs work of the Ukrainian equivalent of Green Berets (or even Delta) killed

Russian SF was mauled in their helicopters in Southern Ukraine in the first 3 weeks of the war.

The Kiowa is dead and the AH-6 is even smaller and carries less plus it has worse sensors.
The Grognard said:
I would argue the scout helicopter is going to still be useful in the first 72 hours of a conflict and any mobile phase because they also can carry a small amount of people into places other things can't carry them. Though, I would at least try to ensure that they can be outfitted with ATGMs because during times when things aren't mobile, being able to pop behind a forest or a hill and shoot something 5+ kilometers away is going to be their main job.
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Nope. Try attack helicopters with the best EO, IR and even radar based sensors engaging from their ATGM's max or near max ranges (8-12km maybe even 15+km or, with LMUR and the US equivalent, 25+ KM)

Scout helicopters carry fewer weapons and usually worse sensors and may be slower than a bigger attack helicopter.

Black hawk, UH-72, Mi-17, and Cougar/Super Puma type helicopters will stay. Carry more and are faster.
Sleazy Car Salesman said:
The vast majority of scout helos can carry guided ATGMs. Hell back in the nineties you could slap TOW missiles onto the Kiowa-A and during Desert Storm they did.

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4 TOWs max or usually 2 TOWs or Hellfires plus a machine gun or rocket pod.

A shitload less than a AH-64 while being slower and having fewer sensors.

Plus Kiowa is dead and almost all militaries globally are dumping scout helicopter and even dedicated attack helicopters.
 
Falcos_Commisar said:
Plus Kiowa is dead and almost all militaries globally are dumping scout helicopter and even dedicated attack helicopters.
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Most militaries that are keeping attack helicopters in the long term are looking at missiles in the 30-50km class along the lines of Spike NLOS. Cheap guided rockets are also a big deal for drone defense, especially in a maritime setting. So there's definitely room for larger choppers with good sensors and payload to shift their roles as technology develops.
 
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Falcos_Commisar said:
Ukraine has shown that SF actually aren't THAT useful in conventional wars as once they face larger / heavier units and weapons than Johnny Jihadi and his AKs and maybe a PKM/RPG-7 they end up getting killed in a lot greater numbers.

Both Russia and Ukraine burned through a LOT of SF types in the first year of the war and they've been using them mostly as light infantry ever since.

A Ukranian SF small boat insertion in Crimea went VERY badly and got 1-2 RHIBs work of the Ukrainian equivalent of Green Berets (or even Delta) killed

Russian SF was mauled in their helicopters in Southern Ukraine in the first 3 weeks of the war.
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Honestly I think what Ukraine demonstrates is that if you're a shithole country that doesn't have the infrastructure or manpower for industrial warfare drones make a good stop-gap to shore up your shitty conscripts your half baked doctrine and your general unpreparedness. And yes that goes for both sides.
 
Sleazy Car Salesman said:
Honestly I think what Ukraine demonstrates is that if you're a shithole country that doesn't have the infrastructure or manpower for industrial warfare drones make a good stop-gap to shore up your shitty conscripts your half baked doctrine and your general unpreparedness. And yes that goes for both sides.
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If your doctrine+equipment is good, you can deal with the asymmetric drone threat. Drones just add a curveball into the mix. A TOW missile is still as lethal and true as it was yesterday, unlike a drone, which is easily shot down, crashed, all this shit. Now add drones into a army with good doctrine? Kino happens
 
Falcos_Commisar said:
Except, a LOT of Nazi gear was mediocre to retardedly overcomplicated.

And a shitload of Soviet gear was so unergonomic to cause issues with the troops riding around in them. See almost all Soviet IFVs and APCs.

Oh and was obsessed with low silhouettes and amphibious capabilities to the detrimental of almost everything else.
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Agreed, some equipment was overcomplicated, some was low quality, however I very much disagree with the statement of "a LOT" of gear being so, most of the gear used was acceptably engineered, but political and strategic level problems can make even the best equipment look like shit. This is the case for basically every country, but what I am saying is that some people ignore issues with their side and denigrate the other side for political reasons, i.e russia bad nazis bad so russian equipment bad nazi equipment bad.
Most equipment that saw widespread use for all nations in WW2 was not bad, with a few exceptions (obviously also only talking new stuff, not the old equipment still in usage by all parties that had become obsolescent). People will laugh at the Jagdtiger for instance for being an overweight vehicle with many engineering issues, but to then apply that to the nation as a whole is ridiculous. Same with poor ergonomics in Soviet equipment, undoubtedly that is true in quite a few cases (the early 2-man turret T-34 springs to mind), but the advantages in production efficiency and simplicity of repair/maintenance are a compromise that was acceptable to the Soviets, understandably so in my opinion.
Anyway I'm just fucking annoyed with that fat scottish fag lazerpig and his similarly reductive statements, hence my ranting.
 
Speaking of helicopters and their future;


The Army is developing a new long range missile for Apache gunships to replace the Spike NLOS adopted as a stopgap in 2020. Minimum acceptable range is 30km, they also want a turbojet for loitering capability. Some level of AI-based targeting is also in some of the documents, IIRC.


AH-1Zs have also been spotted with a new weapon, just as recently as the start of this month. The Red Wolf is some sort of drone/missile, details are still sketchy but some that have surfaced are a subsonic flight speed, 'low triple-digit range', and possible variants with payloads other than warheads.
 
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VF-1S Valkyrie said:
Speaking of helicopters and their future;


The Army is developing a new long range missile for Apache gunships to replace the Spike NLOS adopted as a stopgap in 2020. Minimum acceptable range is 30km, they also want a turbojet for loitering capability. Some level of AI l-based sensor processing is also in some of the documents, IIRC.


AH-1Zs have also been spotted with a new weapon, just as recently as the start of this month. The Red Wolf is some sort of drone/missile, details are still sketchy but some that have surfaced are a subsonic flight speed, 'low triple-digit range', and possible variants with payloads other than warheads.
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Once again, the Attack Helicopter is not dead. It merely evolves. A platform to launch munitions is always useful. And if they're trying to go over 100 miles for some of them, that's well past a piddly little drone.
 
WelperHelper99 said:
Once again, the Attack Helicopter is not dead. It merely evolves. A platform to launch munitions is always useful. And if they're trying to go over 100 miles for some of them, that's well past a piddly little drone.
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You already did see how the Attack Copter is going to be used in a real fight during the counter-offensive of 2023, where Ka-52s would sit about ten kilometers away from approaching columns and pop them with their laser-guided missiles.
 
Falcos_Commisar said:

New grenade rifle who dis?

Barrett won the contract for a 30mm grenade rifle aka the XM25 redux.

Uses the new Vortex optic from NGSW (hopefully the recoil won't break it)

Programmable grenades, will probably have an anti drone grenade.
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Just wanna say the Barrett Bolter makes me happy. Now we just need power armor to make our Space Marines
 
WelperHelper99 said:
Once again, the Attack Helicopter is not dead. It merely evolves. A platform to launch munitions is always useful. And if they're trying to go over 100 miles for some of them, that's well past a piddly little drone.
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The Grognard said:
You already did see how the Attack Copter is going to be used in a real fight during the counter-offensive of 2023, where Ka-52s would sit about ten kilometers away from approaching columns and pop them with their laser-guided missiles.
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100+ is way more range than anyone else has ever launched off a helicopter AFAIK, but I'm more interested in the other variants, there's a lot of stuff they could do besides just one-way attack. Helicopter launched loitering recon drones and spoofer/jammers like MALD would fit well into the new USMC priority on amphibious operations against near-peer enemies.
 
WelperHelper99 said:
Once again, the Attack Helicopter is not dead. It merely evolves. A platform to launch munitions is always useful. And if they're trying to go over 100 miles for some of them, that's well past a piddly little drone.
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Not dead but buzzing in for mk 1 eyeball guided rocket and canon runs ja essentially dead unless you're up against tribals/militias

Plus those missiles can be launched from Mi-17/Blackhawk class helicopters too
The Grognard said:
You already did see how the Attack Copter is going to be used in a real fight during the counter-offensive of 2023, where Ka-52s would sit about ten kilometers away from approaching columns and pop them with their laser-guided missiles.
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10+km

Now the danger is better MANPADS with MUCH better targeting systems (think javelin CLU) or FPV anti helicopter drones.

Allegedly at least one Russian attack helicopter was lost to a FPV and in Myanmar a Mi-17 was hit and eventually crashed due to one.
VF-1S Valkyrie said:
100+ is way more range than anyone else has ever launched off a helicopter AFAIK, but I'm more interested in the other variants, there's a lot of stuff they could do besides just one-way attack. Helicopter launched loitering recon drones and spoofer/jammers like MALD would fit well into the new USMC priority on amphibious operations against near-peer enemies.
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That would be a turbojet Powered miniature cruise missiles that'll be larger than a hellfire/JAGM
 
Ah sorry for the double post but Russia might have lost ~1/3 to HALF of its entire strategic bomber fleet last night. Tu-95s and possibly Tu-160s hit.

Ukraine smuggled literal shipping containers full of drones near 3-4 airbases including ones jna SIBERIA and launched them.

LMAO indeed, Russian military COMPETENCE strikes again because WHO NEEDS HANGARS. Oh and Russian can make something like 1-2 Tu-160s a YEAR, zero Tu-95s and probably zero Tu-22M3.... Whoops. I have a feeling the Russian thread for the war on happenings is taking this very well.


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Impossible, ive been told for the past few pages drones arent capable of such strategic impactful results. Only B-2 stealth bombers can possibly conduct such long range strike missions.
Falcos_Commisar said:
LMAO indeed, Russian military COMPETENCE strikes again because WHO NEEDS HANGARS.
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To be fair hangers are only used for maintenance purposes(aside from B-2s?). The US doesnt store its fleet of B-52s and B-1s inside hangers.

Maybe this will finally wake the MIC up to the threat and capability of drones.
 
Falcos_Commisar said:
Not dead but buzzing in for mk 1 eyeball guided rocket and canon runs ja essentially dead unless you're up against tribals/militias

Plus those missiles can be launched from Mi-17/Blackhawk class helicopters too
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The cannon is after you launch your super ATGM'S and wipe the map of everything that can hurt your attack helicopter. Mop up.
 
74164978231 said:
Impossible, ive been told for the past few pages drones arent capable of such strategic impactful results. Only B-2 stealth bombers can possibly conduct such long range strike missions.
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Sit back down retard, Russia having an incompetent intel apparatus that can't stop Ukraine from sneaking around with custom shipping containers doesn't make HMP tech stop existing for first world militaries.

Again, WWI tanks; ad hoc solutions before actual counterdevelopment.
 
Major security failure by Russia on this. Looks like these where sophisticated containers they used;


VF-1S Valkyrie said:
Sit back down retard, Russia having an incompetent intel apparatus that can't stop Ukraine from sneaking around with shipping containers doesn't make HMP tech stop existing.

Again, WWI tanks; ad hoc solutions before actual counterdevelopment.
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You can say drones are a novelty but some people just struck a major blow to one of Russia's nuclear triads using fpv drones of all things.

Cope harder.
 
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