Military Equipment Sperging Thread - The Tiger II is a better tank than the M1 Abrams edition

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WelperHelper99 said:
There is a reason. It works. And making a big ass HMG that's reliable as what it's replacing is HARD. I won't deny issues, I've never shot it. I do know it's been kicking ass for a century. There is a reason for that. Everything else sucks dick.
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Let's just say if it was a POS or you have been replaced 50-100 years ago.

Could you make a better .50 cal today? Probably.

Would it be economical to replace every single M2 and M2A1 ever made from 1921 till today?

Hell no.
 
WelperHelper99 said:
There is a reason. It works. And making a big ass HMG that's reliable as what it's replacing is HARD. I won't deny issues, I've never shot it. I do know it's been kicking ass for a century. There is a reason for that. Everything else sucks dick.
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It's going to keep sticking around not because there's something better but more because the US has a significant surplus of them and they happily hand them out to whoever's asking. Inside NATO, the Poles have their own NSV clone that's been rechambered to the .50 BMG and the original factory in Kazakhstan also takes orders for the original NSV in that same chambering. Zastava also does offer them because Yugoslavia bought the license for production and the same tooling is still in Serbia.
Falcos_Commisar said:
Could you make a better .50 cal today? Probably.
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I would argue that as an overall design, the NSV is better due to being a reliable design that can be used with less maintenance while being substantially lighter. Having a side rail for optical sights also helps.
 
The Grognard said:
It's going to keep sticking around not because there's something better but more because the US has a significant surplus of them and they happily hand them out to whoever's asking. Inside NATO, the Poles have their own NSV clone that's been rechambered to the .50 BMG and the original factory in Kazakhstan also takes orders for the original NSV in that same chambering. Zastava also does offer them because Yugoslavia bought the license for production and the same tooling is still in Serbia.

I would argue that as an overall design, the NSV is better due to being a reliable design that can be used with less maintenance while being substantially lighter. Having a side rail for optical sights also helps.
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You are right in that it's immensely standardized. It is THE 50 cal, the Ma Deuce. It shares a rare achievement in that its reliable enough to stay in service while newer models have come out, outlived it's replacements, and is so standardized that replacing it is just stupid. It's why the US and allied countries keeps a lot of things tbh.
 
The M2 was designed by a engineers, not a committee. Is it outdated? Yes. But it was designed by a couple engineers who meant to design a better gun based on their own know-how and experience, not by somebody who was trying to please three different Senators, a House subcomittee, and an Army board. Consequently, it's a coherent design that's meant for real use.

If you had five engineers design a new .50, led by a chief engineer who was an Iraq vet with significant time on the M2, you would get a much, much better gun. Guaranteed. But we're not allowed to design things that way in the arms industry anymore.
 
The Ugly One said:
The M2 was designed by a engineers, not a committee. Is it outdated? Yes. But it was designed by a couple engineers who meant to design a better gun based on their own know-how and experience, not by somebody who was trying to please three different Senators, a House subcomittee, and an Army board. Consequently, it's a coherent design that's meant for real use.

If you had five engineers design a new .50, led by a chief engineer who was an Iraq vet with significant time on the M2, you would get a much, much better gun. Guaranteed. But we're not allowed to design things that way in the arms industry anymore.
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Well the primary engineer was John Moses Browning. Replacing his genius is a hard ask. That's before you get to the committees.
 
The problem isn't designing so much as procurement. Designing a better M2 than the M2 isn't that hard, the issue is convincing anyone to buy it without pleasing three senators and twenty bean counters.
 
The Ugly One said:
The M2 was designed by a engineers, not a committee. Is it outdated? Yes. But it was designed by a couple engineers who meant to design a better gun based on their own know-how and experience, not by somebody who was trying to please three different Senators, a House subcomittee, and an Army board. Consequently, it's a coherent design that's meant for real use.

If you had five engineers design a new .50, led by a chief engineer who was an Iraq vet with significant time on the M2, you would get a much, much better gun. Guaranteed. But we're not allowed to design things that way in the arms industry anymore.
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I do bet that if the M2 does get a replacement, it's going to have a lot of the same advances that you see with the NSV and Kord, like using light-weight materials, extensive stamping and having mounts for optical devices. Then again, machine guns are a wear item anyways so any phase-in would be done as the old ones wear out.
 
The Grognard said:
I do bet that if the M2 does get a replacement, it's going to have a lot of the same advances that you see with the NSV and Kord, like using light-weight materials, extensive stamping and having mounts for optical devices. Then again, machine guns are a wear item anyways so any phase-in would be done as the old ones wear out.
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I don't see it happening. It would have been replaced by now if they were going to. The M2 is a sturdy brick for all its faults. It shoots 50 cal. It can also be switched to a aircraft configuration with 1000 rpm. And now it has a quick change barrel. It does everything the military wants it to. And there are so many spare parts, it just doesn't make sense. You have recievers from the 40s still in service. It doesn't know death.
 
WelperHelper99 said:
Still, that is 3 guns while the M2 just continues on because it's a brick that works. Because yeah, it is good at basically anything you want a 50 cal to do.
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The M2 has been modfied multiple times, too. The headspacing issue was only fixed in 2010 so the vast majority of the M2 HMGs around still have to have their headspace adjusted periodically so they feed properly. That's a constant annoyance at best and a potentially deadly situation at worst.
 
The Evil Midnight Bomber said:
The M2 has been modfied multiple times, too. The headspacing issue was only fixed in 2010 so the vast majority of the M2 HMGs around still have to have their headspace adjusted periodically so they feed properly. That's a constant annoyance at best and a potentially deadly situation at worst.
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The modification program is still happening though to go from M2 to M2A1. The Marines should be done, that was only supposed to take till 2018. Army has a bit more to go through, 54,000 total. That said it has now been 15 years. They should be close by now.
 
WelperHelper99 said:
I don't see it happening. It would have been replaced by now if they were going to. The M2 is a sturdy brick for all its faults.
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Something being in service for a long time doesnt mean its "good". The M2 hasnt been replaced because its an incredibly niche weapon that has zero application outside the military, which means there is little incentive for someone to make an replacement on top of a monumental amount of inertia to overcome for any military to replace their M2s.

The M2 will only be replaced when the bean counters an generals find it in their interests to do so.
 
74164978231 said:
Something being in service for a long time doesnt mean its "good". The M2 hasnt been replaced because its an incredibly niche weapon that has zero application outside the military, which means there is little incentive for someone to make an replacement on top of a monumental amount of inertia to overcome for any military to replace their M2s.
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You some sort of FUDD? I can get a semi auto M2 and mount it on a truck if I want, fully legally. Why? Because it's God's gift to man, the ultimate. 50 cal!
22kmt7hr003a1.jpg
I could mount it in the hallway as home defense even. No use outside the military MY ASS.
 
74164978231 said:
The M2 hasnt been replaced because its an incredibly niche weapon that has zero application outside the military
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And even then it doesn't have much use case within most militaries since the idea of an HMG is very much so an American and Russian idea. Everyone else just uses LMGs and GPMGs even as vehicle mounts and if they do want something heavier they typically spring for something in the autocannon (20mm and up) range.
 
WelperHelper99 said:
I don't see it happening. It would have been replaced by now if they were going to. The M2 is a sturdy brick for all its faults. It shoots 50 cal. It can also be switched to a aircraft configuration with 1000 rpm. And now it has a quick change barrel. It does everything the military wants it to. And there are so many spare parts, it just doesn't make sense. You have recievers from the 40s still in service. It doesn't know death.
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You could achieve all that and be more reliable, easier to maintain, and lighter weight. We just didn't get that with the M85 because armchair engineers were in control.
 
The Ugly One said:
You could achieve all that and be more reliable, easier to maintain, and lighter weight. We just didn't get that with the M85 because armchair engineers were in control.
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Don't forget the XM312 and the XM806, the last of which was canceled in 2012.
1280px-PEO_XM806_.50-caliber_LMG.jpg
This... thing, the XM806, was supposed to replace the M2. Turned out to be a waste of time. They just upgraded the M2's into the M2A1 after. General Dynamics got paid though lmao. So there have been attempts between the M85 and now. They just are piles of junk.
 
I thought y'all would like this, as of last week the 1,100th F-35 has been delivered.

That's more than the Typhoon, Rafael and Gripen E combined.

Lockheed delivered 110 jets in 2024. More jets in a year than France can make in 5 years.

I remember way back when when tards were bleating about a "death spiral" for the jet..... Now it's not only the most common stealth jet on Earth it's actually one of the most produced fighter jets on Earth and certainly the most produced fighter jet so far in the 21st century.

 
the mosin has been in service for longer and will remain in militia/police service for very likely just as long as the m2 will remain in someones inventory atleast 100 years from now, so, according to the logic here the mosin is the best rifle in the world x3
 
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