Military Equipment Sperging Thread - The Tiger II is a better tank than the M1 Abrams edition

[74164978231]

The effect is less a product of the drones and far more a product of bean counters. If less dangerous routes exist then why use the more dangerous one? And if other, safer, routes exist then why commit massive manpower to taking out a group that really isn't worth the trouble due to topographical and geological advantages and an ironclad ideology that will most likely take literal generations to beat out of them? Frankly even if a nation were to curbstomp the Houthis the massive expenditure of time and manpower would be far more to quell that ideological resistance than due to some material advantage that drones would possibly give them. Drones or no drones the Houthis biggest advantages are due to them having the homefield and a sympathetic/brow beaten local population and not due to numbers or materials.

If there is no will to fight there will be no fight. Alternatively if there is a will to fight then the fight is not truly over.

Its not about eradicating the Houthis.

Its about the Houthis and their what tens of millions maybe hundred millions dollars worth of arms is unable to be subdued/nullified by the might of the US Military. Probably hundred billion dollars+ of assets(we even bombed them with B2s!) thrown at the Houthis and theyre still around laughing at us shooting down our drones and launching them at ships in the red sea.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

Its about the Houthis and their what tens of millions maybe hundred millions dollars worth of arms is unable to be subdued/nullified by the might of the US Military.

Being unwilling to nullify an enemy is the same thing as being unable to nullify an enemy in practice but that only stands up so long as the will isn't there. If the US had the will to truly commit then the Houthis would most likely be nullified. Committing token forces is not the same as committing to a war.

 

[The Ugly One]

Turns out you don't need to sink every ship to effectively blockade, just sink enough that people know you can.

It's like how there really don't need to be that many shootings to clear a neighborhood of all the white people.

 

[Blue Flying Leaf]

Being unwilling to nullify an enemy is the same thing as being unable to nullify an enemy in practice but that only stands up so long as the will isn't there. If the US had the will to truly commit then the Houthis would most likely be nullified. Committing token forces is not the same as committing to a war.

US lost afganistan, you cannot commit 21st century army to 15th century land. It is just a massive drain in resources and bases in such areas would burn more resources than ammo.
Houtinies already won before US invaded as they hold all the land, resources and livable places. US is destined to bring their own city that is fueled by burning cash. The only base they can make is in middle of nowhere which again means they lost everything.
You can't really bomb rocks or sand. Lives of those tribesman are worth less than ordinance US dropped on them, but there are many and they are expendable.
You can't win. It's like fighting an anthill with magnifying glass. You may get one or two but there are so many the replacement rate is faster than your killing rate.

 

[Jewthulhu]

So a small amount of inbred cave dwelling goat fuckers have caused significant global economic impact with a handful of drones and the most advanced military in the world is powerless to stop them short of committing god knows how many troops to invading them?

Again, an insurgency is different from a conventional war. It's not the equipment, it's the nature of the fight.

And I'd like to point out they haven't actually caused much damage or denied the red sea. They've basically created enough risk such that it's cheaper for commercial vessels to avoid the sea. If this was an actual war, they'd have little effect on military operations or logistics in the area.

Sure sounds like drones are an incredibly effective. How much money is tied up in a carrier battle group again?

Drones cannot replace a carrier battle group. Even if the future of warfare is entirely fought by drones (spoiler: it won't be), you'd still need a CVBG for force-projection of your drone fleet.

 

[74164978231]

Again, an insurgency is different from a conventional war. It's not the equipment, it's the nature of the fight.

And I'd like to point out they haven't actually caused much damage or denied the red sea. They've basically created enough risk such that it's cheaper for commercial vessels to avoid the sea. If this was an actual war, they'd have little effect on military operations or logistics in the area.

I didnt say invade Yemen and drive the Houthis to surrender. Who the hell cares about cave dwellers raping and pillaging fellow cave dwellers.

At the very least we should be able to degrade their capabilities such that they cant lob drones at will into the Red Sea. But we can do that because of how expensive it is to shoot tomahawks and drop JDAMs from F35s launched from a carrier.

Fun fact, we shot about 5 years worth of tomahawk production at the Houthis so far in 2024.

Drones cannot replace a carrier battle group. Even if the future of warfare is entirely fought by drones (spoiler: it won't be), you'd still need a CVBG for force-projection of your drone fleet.

A drone carrier wouldnt be nearly as expensive as a conventional carrier and if you arent sending something as expensive as a conventional carrier you dont need the dozenish other vessels that accompany the carrier to protect the very expensive carrier.

 

[TiggerNits]

Outside of what was already said, the USN is designed to fight a conventional war. Counter-insurgencies, like against the Houthis, are a different story. Insurgencies are much harder to target, deter, and predict.

I don't think anyone has figured out how to effectively fight a counter-insurgency, especially without boots on ground.

Well, Curtis Lemay figured it out, no one has the balls to act on it

 

[1Tonka_Truck]

These people forget this was created, battle tested then canceled?

That extra 5mm makes it not a war crime.

Pretty much every jet made between the end of Korea and through the 70s was gorgeous or exceedingly utilitarian with nothing in between

The A-6 being the pinnacle of the latter.

 

[The Grognard]

Well, Curtis Lemay figured it out, no one has the balls to act on it

The issue is that Houthis see the value of martyrdom as one of the greatest honors that a Muslim could ever face. All you're doing is simply giving them a good time and they will have time to rebuild their assets between the sorties. If you want to actually stop them from making the red sea a no-go zone for any ally of Israel, you need to actually physically occupy the land in order to have a reasonable follow-up to gunboat diplomacy.

 

[Falcos_Commisar]

I don't think anyone has figured out how to effectively fight a counter-insurgency, especially without boots on ground

It's called exterminating the enemy or absolutely destroying their ability to make war.

Something the Houthis haven't faced.... Ever

 

[Falcos_Commisar]

US lost afganistan, you cannot commit 21st century army to 15th century land.

You can if you don't let the other side fuck off across a border and get to rearm and reequip with impunity for 20+ years..... Oh wait

Pakistan is the most two faced "ally" the US has, even worse than Germany.

And I'd like to point out they haven't actually caused much damage or denied the red sea. They've basically created enough risk such that it's cheaper for commercial vessels to avoid the sea. If this was an actual war, they'd have little effect on military operations or logistics in the area.

Yep, it's literally an insurance company reaction.

Even then, ships are still passing through the straight every day.

The Houthis are immensely lucky that they masters in Iran run cover for them 24/7 and supply them with arms

 

[Geoff Capes Vapes Apes]

You can if you don't let the other side fuck off across a border and get to rearm and reequip with impunity for 20+ years..... Oh wait

Pakistan is the most two faced "ally" the US has, even worse than Germany.

Yep, it's literally an insurance company reaction.

Even then, ships are still passing through the straight every day.

The Houthis are immensely lucky that they masters in Iran run cover for them 24/7 and supply them with arms

You probably ought to explain all this to the German Navy, who are at this very moment not going through the straits but instead fucking off around the cape:
Krauts go boating

 

[Falcos_Commisar]

You probably ought to explain all this to the German Navy, who are at this very moment not going through the straits but instead fucking off around the cape:
Krauts go boating

Not anyone's fault but Germany's that their Navy is a useless joke.

 

[WelperHelper99]

Being unwilling to nullify an enemy is the same thing as being unable to nullify an enemy in practice but that only stands up so long as the will isn't there. If the US had the will to truly commit then the Houthis would most likely be nullified. Committing token forces is not the same as committing to a war.

If the US had the will to nullify the Houthis, they would be. Their skies would be filled with bombers non stop for months as every point of interest was obliterated.

Drones cannot replace a carrier battle group. Even if the future of warfare is entirely fought by drones (spoiler: it won't be), you'd still need a CVBG for force-projection of your drone fleet.

It cannot. Drones are good at some things, notably cheap suicidal ground attack where air defense is high. They are not good at air defence, nor good at carrying a ass load of bombs, ala a Super Hornet, which is just over 17,000 pounds of ordnance if it ditches all fuel pods.

A drone carrier wouldnt be nearly as expensive as a conventional carrier and if you arent sending something as expensive as a conventional carrier you dont need the dozenish other vessels that accompany the carrier to protect the very expensive carrier.

False. I present to you the Turks and their carrier adventures:

TCG Anadolu is a Juan Carlos I class amphibious assualt ship- aircraft carrier hybrid. Cost is a billion. No its not a supercarrier. But this is what a drone carrier looks like. Once they got banned from putting F-35B's on it, they slapped their drones on it. It can carry 30-50 drones if it ditches the helicopters. Its still extremely expensive and out of reach of most navies.

The A-6 being the pinnacle of the latter.

Such a beautiful bomber. Had side by side seating, which was really neat. Could carry three nukes at a time, which is absolutely insane in terms of fuck off firepower.

 

[TiggerNits]

The issue is that Houthis see the value of martyrdom as one of the greatest honors that a Muslim could ever face. All you're doing is simply giving them a good time and they will have time to rebuild their assets between the sorties. If you want to actually stop them from making the red sea a no-go zone for any ally of Israel, you need to actually physically occupy the land in order to have a reasonable follow-up to gunboat diplomacy.

I almost agree, but old Curtis, the way he wanted to go about eating insurgency you can't really occupy the land when it's done and finished because, well there ain't nothing to occupy.

Mr. Lemay realized that there's no point in making artificial sunlight on demand if you're not gonna use them to scratch the occasional annoying itch to remind the rest of the mosquitoes that they probably shouldn't be buzzing around

 

[74164978231]

TCG Anadolu is a Juan Carlos I class amphibious assualt ship- aircraft carrier hybrid. Cost is a billion. No its not a supercarrier. But this is what a drone carrier looks like. Once they got banned from putting F-35B's on it, they slapped their drones on it. It can carry 30-50 drones if it ditches the helicopters. Its still extremely expensive and out of reach of most navies.

This is a ship built around F-35s as well as carrying a battalions worth of infantry and their gear. A drone doesnt need a well deck nor birthing spaces for 500+ random infantry.

 

[WelperHelper99]

This is a ship built around F-35s as well as carrying a battalions worth of infantry and their gear. A drone doesnt need a well deck nor birthing spaces for 500+ random infantry.

It literally carries drones my guy. You may not like it, but that is what exists as a drone carrier in modern day. You want to carry 50 drones for your zerg swarm? It's gonna look like that, even IF you remove the amphibious elements, because that space will just go to more drone shit. It will still cost a billion, still need similar defense systems, and still be huge.

 

[74164978231]

It literally carries drones my guy. You may not like it, but that is what exists as a drone carrier in modern day. You want to carry 50 drones for your zerg swarm? It's gonna look like that, even IF you remove the amphibious elements, because that space will just go to more drone shit. It will still cost a billion, still need similar defense systems, and still be huge.

It carries drones because the US refused to sale Turkey F-35s. Thats the only reason because Turkey has nothing else to put on it.

If you build something to that size and purely for drones youre gonna be carrying a hell of a lot more than just 50 drones. You could probably pack a few aircraft carriers worth of air power into something that size dedicated to just drones.

 

[WelperHelper99]

It carries drones because the US refused to sale Turkey F-35s. Thats the only reason because Turkey has nothing else to put on it.

If you build something to that size and purely for drones youre gonna be carrying a hell of a lot more than just 50 drones. You could probably pack a few aircraft carriers worth of air power into something that size dedicated to just drones.

You realize it has to carry fuel and parts too, right? And the people that fly them from the ship? They didn't pick 50 for lol xd random. Even if it carries just drones, nothing else, this is about your limits before you get into super carrier territory.

 

[74164978231]

You realize it has to carry fuel and parts too, right? And the people that fly them from the ship? They didn't pick 50 for lol xd random. Even if it carries just drones, nothing else, this is about your limits before you get into super carrier territory.

If youre only carrying 50 drones you dont need a ship nearly that big. Again a huge chunk of that ship's space and equipment is only for supporting 500+ infantry, tanks/vehicles, landing craft etc.