Military Equipment Sperging Thread - The Tiger II is a better tank than the M1 Abrams edition

[Serbian Peacekeepers]

Atleast her theme song is, as the kids say, a banger

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YrGfBnPRZCQ&pp=ygUSYmx1ZSBveXN0ZXIgbWUgMjYy

The fact this song caused drama with Jewish groups will make it stay one of my all time favorites.

 

[Hey Johnny Bravo]

I love nothing more than images of soldiers in Africa. They use so many hand-me-downs and a lot of it is gear from between 1945 and 1967, which is aesthetically my favorite. I love seeing those guys with PASGT gear and G3s that still work 50+ years later.

 

[The Grognard]

I really just wanted to make a essay on this thing. It has so much potential but its being held back by navy planners saying "hey i know we said we wanted this at the start, but now we want this" and by a ship yard that basically got resuscitated from the brink of death, and as such, is a mess. It CAN be great, it just needs to get there. Any thoughts or discussion is welcome.

If you ask me, it's a prime example of how neoliberalism has rotten military procurement. Nobody gets punished for stuff that would have gotten you a swift military tribunal in any participant of WW2. There also seems to be no real will to reform this or anyone involved in the process to have ever done any real work.

 

[WelperHelper99]

If you ask me, it's a prime example of how neoliberalism has rotten military procurement. Nobody gets punished for stuff that would have gotten you a swift military tribunal in any participant of WW2. There also seems to be no real will to reform this or anyone involved in the process to have ever done any real work.

A lot of the issues stem from the navy telling them one thing at the start and changing it along the way. They needed to stick to the plan from the beginning to keep this program on track. That didn't happen. The workers at the shipyard have basically had to go back on certain sections. It's a mess.

 

[1Tonka_Truck]

And when you let the marine Corp have a say.

The Corps' insistence on a VTOL variant absolutely fucked that whole program.

The Navy could have given the Marines money for a separate VTOL program, but they choose not to and it's not like the VTOL requirement was because they thought it was neat.

It does not help that the shipyard in charge of this project, Fincantieri Marinette Marine, was in dire fucking straits before the Trump admin gave them this 20 ship contract to keep them open. As such however, they've had trouble finding skilled labor. The first ship, USS Constellation was supposed to be out at sea this year in 2024. It has moved to 2029 do to redesigns, bungling, etc.

I just want to point out that Marinette Marine was the issue. Fincantieri bought the yard off Manitowoc so it could compete for the this contract. Manitowoc originally bought the yard 20 years ago to inhouse their crane barge builds and as far as I can tell ran it into the ground because it wasn't cranes.

 

[Hey Johnny Bravo]

A lot of the issues stem from the navy telling them one thing at the start and changing it along the way. They needed to stick to the plan from the beginning to keep this program on track. That didn't happen. The workers at the shipyard have basically had to go back on certain sections. It's a mess.

Do you know if changes in material science research (basically, the NRL) is affecting the project? I know that the military (especially the Navy and Air Force) has been hiring a lot of material scientists in the past 4 years.

 

[WelperHelper99]

Do you know if changes in material science research (basically, the NRL) is affecting the project? I know that the military (especially the Navy and Air Force) has been hiring a lot of material scientists in the past 4 years.

A lot is the engine layout. It's diesel electric and gas. It's a hybrid. As such It's beefy. The hull itself had to get completely redesigned to fit it in. It's a new ass ship. It wouldn't be the materials tbh, the ship is steel. It's not a air plane. It's a frigate. Supposed to be low cost. Stealth composites or whatever is not in the ballpark.

 

[74164978231]

I really just wanted to make a essay on this thing. It has so much potential but its being held back by navy planners saying "hey i know we said we wanted this at the start, but now we want this" and by a ship yard that basically got resuscitated from the brink of death, and as such, is a mess. It CAN be great, it just needs to get there. Any thoughts or discussion is welcome.

Navy procurement has been ran by the dumbest mother fuckers for the past 30 years.

Literally every project since the Arleigh Burkes has been a unmitigated disaster thats has been significantly over budget and behind schedule.

 

[The Grognard]

Because the Lazerpig thread got derailed again to milspergery, I am going to start a conversation with a hot take by saying that the Su-25T is a superior CAS platform for modern warfare than the A-10, if for no other reason than the newest A-10 is 40 years old at this point.

 

[The Foxtrot]

Because the Lazerpig thread got derailed again to milspergery, I am going to start a conversation with a hot take by saying that the Su-25T is a superior CAS platform for modern warfare than the A-10, if for no other reason than the newest A-10 is 40 years old at this point.

Because the Su-25T was designed as modern for its time, and has gotten upgraded in the years since.

The A-10 was designed in the 1970s, with a lack of technology that was common in the 1950s, as a purely gun based "CAS" aircraft, for a battlefield which saw SAM use become extremely common and Soviet SPAAG models were well integrated into their frontline units for AA defense.

And people still actually defend the fucking A-10 as some kickass tank buster.

 

[WelperHelper99]

Because the Lazerpig thread got derailed again to milspergery, I am going to start a conversation with a hot take by saying that the Su-25T is a superior CAS platform for modern warfare than the A-10, if for no other reason than the newest A-10 is 40 years old at this point.

A-10 carries more, better gun, more missiles, more everything. Get on my level bitches.

 

[The Grognard]

A-10 carries more, better gun, more missiles, more everything. Get on my level bitches.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=NvIJvPj_pjE

I am saying this not because of hard factors like that but more out of soft factors like the ability to operate from improvised fields and having equivalent degree of survivability in a smaller package. The gun itself is not that important because the best use of it in that aircraft is as the last resort when all external stuff has been expended or as the target of opportunity weapon. I do agree that having more space for the hardware itself is a point in favor of the A-10 but if it ever gets replaced, it's going to look more like the Su-25 because it represents everything anyone would ever want from a fixed wing jet CAS plane. Cost-effective bomb and rocket truck work with room for upgrades.

Of course, at that point your competition starts to become stuff like the Super Tucano but that thing would never survive in any environment where the other side can shoot back.

 

[The Foxtrot]

A-10 carries more, better gun, more missiles, more everything. Get on my level bitches.

And it also got shot down long before it even had a chance to open fire, because no radar or IFF means a MiG-21 could easily turn your rustbucket into an easy kill.

 

[WelperHelper99]

I am saying this not because of hard factors like that but more out of soft factors like the ability to operate from improvised fields and having equivalent degree of survivability in a smaller package. The gun itself is not that important because the best use of it in that aircraft is as the last resort when all external stuff has been expended or as the target of opportunity weapon. I do agree that having more space for the hardware itself is a point in favor of the A-10 but if it ever gets replaced, it's going to look more like the Su-25 because it represents everything anyone would ever want from a fixed wing jet CAS plane. Cost-effective bomb and rocket truck work with room for upgrades.

Of course, at that point your competition starts to become stuff like the Super Tucano but that thing would never survive in any environment where the other side can shoot back.

A-10 carries 16,000 pounds of ordnance. SU-25 carries one third. You are getting much more bang per plane than for a single SU-25. For 200 A-10's, you'd need 600 SU-25's to drop the same amount of bombs. Its way more efficent than a SU its not even funny.

And it also got shot down long before it even had a chance to open fire, because no radar or IFF means a MiG-21 could easily turn your rustbucket into an easy kill.

That's what the US AIR FORCE is for, your wing man baybe.

 

[The Grognard]

A-10 carries 16,000 pounds of ordnance. SU-25 carries one third. You are getting much more bang per plane than for a single SU-25. For 200 A-10's, you'd need 600 SU-25's to drop the same amount of bombs. Its way more efficent than a SU its not even funny.

It's got worse range and speed than the Su-25. What is more important in CAS is not how large the amount of ordinance you carry as much as response time and turn-around time from ordinance dropped to going back and getting your next set installed for the next sortie of the day.

 

[The Foxtrot]

That's what the US AIR FORCE is for, your wing man baybe.

And this right here is the ultimate problem with A-10 fanboys. There's always a cope, a reason why the A-10 will never be in danger, and these reasons always basically amount to "The enemy will never ever be able to actually put up a fight!".

Because in order for the #BRRRRT to work, the OPFOR has to just roll over, belly up, and wait to die, and A-10 fanboys actually think the A-10 will always operate in uncontested/mostly uncontested airspace. No SAMs, no SPAAGs, no enemy aircraft, nothing. Because it "carries 16,000 pounds of ordinance" means it's the ultimate CAS machine, every other metric be damned! Oh, yeah, they have some MiGs or something, BUT WE HAVE THE YOU-ESS-AYY-EFF BAYBEE, so therefore A-10 = safe.

Hence why the only conflict the A-10 ever operated in against anything resembling a real military (Gulf War 1) resulted in lots of A-10 casualties, and so now the A-10 is always careful to only ever fly against goat herders with no real AA defenses, so the myth can be upheld. You'll never see an A-10 fanboy eager to send them into Ukraine because they'd be shot down and exposed for being the useless junk heaps they are.

 

[JesusChristDenton]

>MUH A-10
>MUH Su-25
Oh please, everyone knows the YA-9 and Il-102 are superior.

 

[Curzon Dax-sama]

>A-10
What for, I'm a B-1 and F-111 enjoyer.

 

[Jewthulhu]

A-10 carries 16,000 pounds of ordnance. SU-25 carries one third. You are getting much more bang per plane than for a single SU-25. For 200 A-10's, you'd need 600 SU-25's to drop the same amount of bombs. Its way more efficent than a SU its not even funny.

Precision > tonnage.

That's what the US AIR FORCE is for, your wing man baybe.

The USAF has been moving towards stealthy planes and longer range munitions for a long time now. They want to minimize the time spent in contested airspace, and be as hard to spot as possible when they are.

 

[WelperHelper99]

And this right here is the ultimate problem with A-10 fanboys. There's always a cope, a reason why the A-10 will never be in danger, and these reasons always basically amount to "The enemy will never ever be able to actually put up a fight!".

Because in order for the #BRRRRT to work, the OPFOR has to just roll over, belly up, and wait to die, and A-10 fanboys actually think the A-10 will always operate in uncontested/mostly uncontested airspace. No SAMs, no SPAAGs, no enemy aircraft, nothing. Because it "carries 16,000 pounds of ordinance" means it's the ultimate CAS machine, every other metric be damned! Oh, yeah, they have some MiGs or something, BUT WE HAVE THE YOU-ESS-AYY-EFF BAYBEE, so therefore A-10 = safe.

Hence why the only conflict the A-10 ever operated in against anything resembling a real military (Gulf War 1) resulted in lots of A-10 casualties, and so now the A-10 is always careful to only ever fly against goat herders with no real AA defenses, so the myth can be upheld. You'll never see an A-10 fanboy eager to send them into Ukraine because they'd be shot down and exposed for being the useless junk heaps they are.

Bro if the SAMS are all fucking dead, which they will be, it doesn't matter if the A-10 can't dogfight. Everything on the ground is now dead. It's called teamwork.

Precision > tonnage.

The USAF has been moving towards stealthy planes and longer range munitions for a long time now. They want to minimize the time spent in contested airspace, and be as hard to spot as possible when they are.

What they want isn't what they need. Flying machine gun bomb truck of doom is the answer to many problems a stealth jet can't fix.