Military Equipment Sperging Thread - The Tiger II is a better tank than the M1 Abrams edition

[The Foxtrot]

Speaking which, the only takeaway/conclusion that people should take from the Russian-Ukraine war is: Revive the arms industry, build more arms manufacturing plants, increase production of material. More shells, tanks, mortar rounds, SHORAD, missiles. Just look at the immense amount of equipment expenditure by both sides, it is crazy.

That's the first takeaway. The second takeaway should be that the NATO mindset of "expensive and ultra advanced!" is idiotic and that the Soviets had the right idea with "Good enough is good enough!".

 

[Falcos_Commisar]

That's our* attempt to design a modern plane to replace the MiG-21 back in the 80's. It eventually switched to Rafale-style inlets before the program was first gutted due to financial reasons, and finally killed off with the rest of SFRY in the 1990's.

Too bad really, i would have wanted to see how it turned out, seeing as Dassault estimated we could sell 3-500 globally. It could have been a Gripen-esque thing, but probably less advanced.

*with some help from Dassault

View attachment 6499018View attachment 6499019View attachment 6499020

Neat baby Rafale. Too bad it never got made, it had a great window to replace a lot of Mig-21s and F-5Es.

Now that is with the F/A-50 and JF-17 if you're poor / want more jets or the Rafale, maybe the Su-30/35 if you're Russia aligned, J-10C if you're chinese aligned or possibly KF-21 if you are rich / want a more capable jet.

Or F-35

VTOL is a tremendous waste and serves no genuine purpose in fixed wing operations. It was only useful once (the Falklands) and it only succeeded because Argentinas air force was retarded in every meaningful way so RAF and RN harriers with almost zero useful ordinance and next to nothing in fuel for loiter were able to hold off an entire wing of morons trying to charge them whenever the weather was nice.

An the USMC forced the F-35 to have a VSTOL variant.

Thankfully it's probably the best VSTOL jet ever made and Lockheed managed to have it not fuck the entire program.

Computers autonomous or not have weaknesses of their own. They can be tricked and fooled in ways a human can't. A human can point that 105 mm tank gun, pull trigger, boom, target dead, because he isn't fooled by ECM decoys. Also a 105mm shell, this:
View attachment 6532233
Is a far beefier payload than a quad copter can carry. It also comes in many flavors for any job. HEAT, APFSDS, HE, HESH, smoke, and many more. Direct fire will never be obsolete.

Also the Booker is immune to a 12 gauge shotgun. A quadcopter isn't. In fact the Booker has a 50 cal M2 machine gun up top for AA work if need be, so that's a direct counter to the drone issue, 50 BMG:
View attachment 6532238
Tends to vaporize small air targets and even kill big ones.

Or even better, the M230LF dual feed, coming very soon

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M230_chain_gun

https://www.northropgrumman.com/what-we-do/advanced-weapons/bushmaster-chain-guns/30x113mm-bushmaster-chain-guns

https://news.northropgrumman.com/news/releases/northrop-grumman-unveils-the-next-generation-of-bushmasterR-chain-gunR

a bit bigger than a .50 cal but 30mm proximity fused shell will turbo pwn any drone at longer ranges and they don't require a direct hit.

Isn't that some 30mm monster can launcher basically?

The Sheridan was a unloved beast with a 152mm HE spam launcher. Sigh. Also had beehive rounds.
----
I like the OSA
View attachment 6535700
View attachment 6535701
And it's missile:
View attachment 6535699
Been used by the East and West at this point. Originally a NAVAL system in response to the US Mauler program, example here:
View attachment 6535703
It's the circular launcher. But yeah. They took a naval SAM, strapped it to a amphibious hull, gave it a radar, and you had a short range, command guidance, ECM resistant system. Main con is that it's pretty short range, only 15km with a max altitude of 12km or 39,000 feet. That said it has a boat load of kills under its belt.

And its everywhere. Russia and eastern countries use it, NATO uses it, the OSA just works.

Say hello to the Norwegian Osa... the NOMADS

https://www.kongsberg.com/kda/what-we-do/defence-and-security/integrated-air-and-missile-defence/NOMADS/

https://www.twz.com/land/norways-nomads-short-range-air-defense-system-unveiled

Sucks but kinda fun. I know it got a little bit better after I got out, but I still get survivor's guilt when I think about it too much.

The T45 is the best plane I ever flew, the T2 was the one I flew the most

ah the T2 Buckeye, my Uncle flew those.

>New Infantry carrier
>Look inside
>Bradley with a smaller turret
View attachment 6536879

More like Bradley with a remote controlled turret and better autocanon.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

>New Infantry carrier
>Look inside
>Bradley with a smaller turret
View attachment 6536879

What an adorable little shit.

 

[Curzon Dax-sama]

That's the first takeaway. The second takeaway should be that the NATO mindset of "expensive and ultra advanced!" is idiotic and that the Soviets had the right idea with "Good enough is good enough!".

We should build millions of Davy Crocketts and be done with it. If the Ruskies are retarded enough, NATO should have enough portable small artificial suns available to turn all their 'guards' units into radioactive molten slag.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

We should build millions of Davy Crocketts and be done with it. If the Ruskies are retarded enough, NATO should have enough portable small artificial suns available to turn all their 'guards' units into radioactive molten slag.

I think we should just build tens of thousands of nuclear devices and set them off all over the world for no better reason than because the world is fucking boring and I want a new one.

 

[Hillary Clinton's Ass]

>New Infantry carrier
>Look inside
>Bradley with a smaller turret
View attachment 6536879

What are those rocket pods attached to the turret?

 

[Jewthulhu]

We should build millions of Davy Crocketts and be done with it. If the Ruskies are retarded enough, NATO should have enough portable small artificial suns available to turn all their 'guards' units into radioactive molten slag.

That was unironically the strategy from the 50s-70s.

 

[National Defense Advocate]

What are those rocket pods attached to the turret?

Stinger pods, I think.

 

[TiggerNits]

Everything I'm being told from guys who work in testing and interop are saying that the Bradley is being redeemed by the showings in Ukraine. Fast RoF, decent mag size and dedicated ATGMs with a fairly reliable chassis and great optics have come together to make it a really good IFV against a near-peer. There's a dozen good drone feeds showing them shredding BMPs, BTRs and T55s and popping T72s with TOWs

 

[National Defense Advocate]

Everything I'm being told from guys who work in testing and interop are saying that the Bradley is being redeemed by the showings in Ukraine. Fast RoF, decent mag size and dedicated ATGMs with a fairly reliable chassis and great optics have come together to make it a really good IFV against a near-peer. There's a dozen good drone feeds showing them shredding BMPs, BTRs and T55s and popping T72s with TOWs

I wasn't aware the Bradster needed redeeming, I was under the impression everybody who actually knew what they were talking about thought it was an exceptional IFV.
A bit long in the tooth, but who isn't these days.

 

[TiggerNits]

I wasn't aware the Bradster needed redeeming, I was under the impression everybody who actually knew what they were talking about thought it was an exceptional IFV.
A bit long in the tooth, but who isn't these days.

They weren't great in GWOT, but that was less the bradleys issue than the people who thought a weapon made to fight armor and scout for artillery was going to be good at COIN.

It performed fine in the invasion of Iraq, but the LAV and Striker were better as pure APCs since they were way easier to maintain and supply according to DoD, meaning the Brad was only used for check point defense when they couldn't get tanks. And like every armored vehicle in GWOT that couldn't hit 55 on a dirt road, it was pretty useless when EFPs started becoming a thing for IEDs

 

[Hillary Clinton's Ass]

Stinger pods, I think.

A SHORAD variant for the replacement of the M113? Interesting.

I'm taking a bit of a closer look and I see that is the same turret as the one on the M-SHORAD, the AA variant of the Stryker.

Speaking of SHORAD, would it be possible to improve on systems like any hard-kill APS, to be used in a platform dedicated for protection against FPV drones and loitering munitions?

I'm speaking mostly about the sensor suite together with strong EW suite as well. Strap all that together with a RWS with good elevation to some cheap vehicle and you could have a good defensive system against those type of drones.

 

[Jewthulhu]

They weren't great in GWOT, but that was less the bradleys issue than the people who thought a weapon made to fight armor and scout for artillery was going to be good at COIN.

It performed fine in the invasion of Iraq, but the LAV and Striker were better as pure APCs since they were way easier to maintain and supply according to DoD, meaning the Brad was only used for check point defense when they couldn't get tanks. And like every armored vehicle in GWOT that couldn't hit 55 on a dirt road, it was pretty useless when EFPs started becoming a thing for IEDs

The Bradley did really well in the Gulf War too.

 

[JJLiautaud]

>New Infantry carrier
>Look inside
>Bradley with a smaller turret
View attachment 6536879

How many men can it carry?

 

[The Grognard]

Everything I'm being told from guys who work in testing and interop are saying that the Bradley is being redeemed by the showings in Ukraine. Fast RoF, decent mag size and dedicated ATGMs with a fairly reliable chassis and great optics have come together to make it a really good IFV against a near-peer. There's a dozen good drone feeds showing them shredding BMPs, BTRs and T55s and popping T72s with TOWs

The main sets of critique tend to come from how it doesn't do the non-combat parts that the BMP-2 is better at like amphibious travel and carrying capacity. That said, I would still assume that if you have access to both, one gets to be the one that's on frontlines more while the other sticks to the battlefield taxi job.

 

[WelperHelper99]

Say hello to the Norwegian Osa... the NOMADS

https://www.kongsberg.com/kda/what-we-do/defence-and-security/integrated-air-and-missile-defence/NOMADS/
https://www.twz.com/land/norways-nomads-short-range-air-defense-system-unveiled

So it carries the AIM-9X Sidewinder, 4 specifically. Its a modern MIM-72 Chaparral lol, but with a fucking radar

I approve of this.

Or even better, the M230LF dual feed, coming very soon

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M230_chain_gun
https://www.northropgrumman.com/what-we-do/advanced-weapons/bushmaster-chain-guns/30x113mm-bushmaster-chain-guns
https://news.northropgrumman.com/news/releases/northrop-grumman-unveils-the-next-generation-of-bushmasterR-chain-gunR
a bit bigger than a .50 cal but 30mm proximity fused shell will turbo pwn any drone at longer ranges and they don't require a direct hit.

I mean its in 30x113mmB. I don't know how much better that is than 25mm in anti armor, though certainly it is better at anti air, especially with a dual feed.

Everything I'm being told from guys who work in testing and interop are saying that the Bradley is being redeemed by the showings in Ukraine. Fast RoF, decent mag size and dedicated ATGMs with a fairly reliable chassis and great optics have come together to make it a really good IFV against a near-peer. There's a dozen good drone feeds showing them shredding BMPs, BTRs and T55s and popping T72s with TOWs

The Bradley was a program everyone thought that would fail but didn't. Went through bureaucratic hell to get here, but you know what, it was worth it. Turns out bringing two TOW missiles and a 200 rpm autocannon to a fight does some real damage, that's not even counting the boys in the back. Love this guy.

Also it still has firing ports on the back door lol if you really need to spray 5.56 at the enemy if you're getting zerg rushed. Funny little addition nobody talks about, but I think is notable. Its for the M231 which they still have in the vehicles mostly just for the crew, very high firing rate, you literally screw it into the port and just let the bullets fly.


Also the M2A4 newly produced models (yes they're still making more lol) with the Iron Fist APS is sexy as FUCK:

Eat your heart out Burton, RPG's and ATGM's can't even touch the Bradley anymore, it'll shoot em down lol.

 

[Curzon Dax-sama]

That was unironically the strategy from the 50s-70s.

It never should have been changed.

 

[Falcos_Commisar]

The main sets of critique tend to come from how it doesn't do the non-combat parts that the BMP-2 is better at like amphibious travel and carrying capacity. That said, I would still assume that if you have access to both, one gets to be the one that's on frontlines more while the other sticks to the battlefield taxi job.

making an IFV amphibious leads to massive compromises and the BMP-2 is small and has awful dismount ergonomics.

The BMP series is a mediocre battlefield taxi due it only carrying 7 men max, and very uncomfortably at that, and the MTLB is worse than a 8x8 APC in most every way.

The biggest Bradley critics were the ones who either bought the Russian BS about the BMP-3 (rolling bomb due all the ammo and horrific dismount entry and exit procedure) or were angry and jealous (kinda rightly so) that the Euros got the ASCOD/ASCOD 2, and the CV90 Mk2/3/4 while we were stuck with the Bradley.

The post 1980s Euro IFVs were bigger, had bigger guns and better armor and carried more troops than the Bradley and had more powerful engines.

Now the US Army is going on a massive overcorrection with the XM30 OMFV and it's requirement for a fucking 50mm autocannon..... say hello to maybe 80 shots carried.... hope you don't need any more for those drones that are buzzing around. Meanwhile even the big 35mm Bushmaster is something like ~200+ rounds carried and the 30mm Bushmaster is ~400+ rounds carried and those will easily deal with anything that's not a MBT.

Oh and the Army and USMC are already putting 30mm bushmasters on the MPC and the Stryker Dragoons.... fucking idiocy.

 

[National Defense Advocate]

How many men can it carry?

Realistically? With manpower issues and the mounted section getting first dibs, probably like 4 dismounts. Maybe 5.

 

[74164978231]

Also, Barrett has started making fucking Bolters
View attachment 6534637

These people forget this was created, battle tested then canceled?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XM25_CDTE

Every 5 years there is a new one. I'm old enough to remember mil theorists claiming we were at the end of the artillery battery being operationally useful. Prior to Ukraine you had someone writing a white paper claiming modern militaries don't need infantry anymore, and politicians were starting to run with it.

Every time someone claims a combat platform is obsolete, is right at the moment someone makes a better one, or finds a new and interesting way to use it.

Conventional tube artillery is obsolete in the era of drones. Its just theres a lot of it around and large industrial bases built up to support it. Then of course the institutional inertia to actually adopt the better weapon system.