Disaster Microsoft wants to replace its entire C and C++ codebase, perhaps by 2030 - Moving to Rust with the help of AI, trannies, and Indians

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Microsoft wants to translate its codebase to Rust, and is hiring people to make it happen.

“My goal is to eliminate every line of C and C++ from Microsoft by 2030,” Microsoft distinguished engineer Galen Hunt wrote in a recent LinkedIn post.

“Our strategy is to combine AI and Algorithms to rewrite Microsoft’s largest codebases,” he added. “Our North Star is ‘1 engineer, 1 month, 1 million lines of code.’”

Hunt’s post mentions a job ad for a Principal Software Engineer who will be expected to work on the tools Microsoft is building to pull this off.


“The purpose of this … role is to help us evolve and augment our infrastructure to enable translating Microsoft’s largest C and C++ systems to Rust,” Hunt wrote.

Microsoft has already built some tools to make the move.

“We’ve built a powerful code processing infrastructure,” Hunt wrote. “Our algorithmic infrastructure creates a scalable graph over source code at scale. Our AI processing infrastructure then enables us to apply AI agents, guided by algorithms, to make code modifications at scale.”

Whoever gets the job will work within Microsoft’s Future of Scalable Software Engineering group, a team Hunt says has a mission to “build capabilities to allow Microsoft and our customers to eliminate technical debt at scale.”

“We pioneer new tools and techniques with internal customers and partners, and then work with other product groups to deploy those capabilities at scale across Microsoft and across the industry,” he wrote.

Unlike C and C++, Rust is a memory-safe language, meaning it uses automated memory management to avoid out-of-bounds reads and writes, and use-after-free errors, as both offer attackers a chance to control devices. In recent years, governments have called for universal adoption of memory-safe languages – and especially Rust – to improve software security.

Microsoft has also called for greater use of Rust. In 2022, the CTO of the company’s Azure cloud called Rust to become the default language for new projects. Microsoft scientists have worked on a tool that automatically converts some C code to Rust.

The software behemoth has also created tools to help developers write Windows drivers using Rust.

Microsoft offers a vast array of products. The site MSportals.io lists over 500 active online portals for managing Microsoft products! The company also has a huge internal IT estate.

The effort required to re-write all that must surely be beyond enormous. It will doubtless surface huge numbers of edge cases that automation can’t address.

If you’re brave enough to want to make a contribution, the job Hunt mentions requires you to work three days a week in Microsoft’s Redmond office and pays between $139,900 and $274,800 a year. ®


The linkedin post being referred to here:

Microsoft wants to translate its codebase to Rust, and is hiring people to make it happen.

“My goal is to eliminate every line of C and C++ from Microsoft by 2030,” Microsoft distinguished engineer Galen Hunt wrote in a recent LinkedIn post.

“Our strategy is to combine AI and Algorithms to rewrite Microsoft’s largest codebases,” he added. “Our North Star is ‘1 engineer, 1 month, 1 million lines of code.’”

Hunt’s post mentions a job ad for a Principal Software Engineer who will be expected to work on the tools Microsoft is building to pull this off.


“The purpose of this … role is to help us evolve and augment our infrastructure to enable translating Microsoft’s largest C and C++ systems to Rust,” Hunt wrote.

Microsoft has already built some tools to make the move.

“We’ve built a powerful code processing infrastructure,” Hunt wrote. “Our algorithmic infrastructure creates a scalable graph over source code at scale. Our AI processing infrastructure then enables us to apply AI agents, guided by algorithms, to make code modifications at scale.”

Whoever gets the job will work within Microsoft’s Future of Scalable Software Engineering group, a team Hunt says has a mission to “build capabilities to allow Microsoft and our customers to eliminate technical debt at scale.”

“We pioneer new tools and techniques with internal customers and partners, and then work with other product groups to deploy those capabilities at scale across Microsoft and across the industry,” he wrote.

Unlike C and C++, Rust is a memory-safe language, meaning it uses automated memory management to avoid out-of-bounds reads and writes, and use-after-free errors, as both offer attackers a chance to control devices. In recent years, governments have called for universal adoption of memory-safe languages – and especially Rust – to improve software security.

Microsoft has also called for greater use of Rust. In 2022, the CTO of the company’s Azure cloud called Rust to become the default language for new projects. Microsoft scientists have worked on a tool that automatically converts some C code to Rust.

The software behemoth has also created tools to help developers write Windows drivers using Rust.

Microsoft offers a vast array of products. The site MSportals.io lists over 500 active online portals for managing Microsoft products! The company also has a huge internal IT estate.

The effort required to re-write all that must surely be beyond enormous. It will doubtless surface huge numbers of edge cases that automation can’t address.

If you’re brave enough to want to make a contribution, the job Hunt mentions requires you to work three days a week in Microsoft’s Redmond office and pays between $139,900 and $274,800 a year. ®

The linkedin post being referred to here:


Update:
It appears my post generated far more attention than I intended... with a lot of speculative reading between the lines.

Just to clarify... Windows is *NOT* being rewritten in Rust with AI.

My team’s project is a research project. We are building tech to make migration from language to language possible. The intent of my post was to find like-minded engineers to join us on the next stage of this multi-year endeavor—not to set a new strategy for Windows 11+ or to imply that Rust is an endpoint.

Original Post:
I have an open position in my team for a IC5 Principal Software Engineer. The position is in-person in Redmond.

My goal is to eliminate every line of C and C++ from Microsoft by 2030. Our strategy is to combine AI *and* Algorithms to rewrite Microsoft’s largest codebases. Our North Star is “1 engineer, 1 month, 1 million lines of code”. To accomplish this previously unimaginable task, we’ve built a powerful code processing infrastructure. Our algorithmic infrastructure creates a scalable graph over source code at scale. Our AI processing infrastructure then enables us to apply AI agents, guided by algorithms, to make code modifications at scale. The core of this infrastructure is already operating at scale on problems such as code understanding.

The purpose of this Principal Software Engineer role is to help us evolve and augment our infrastructure to enable translating Microsoft’s largest C and C++ systems to Rust. A critical requirement for this role is experience building production quality systems-level code in Rust—preferably at least 3 years of experience writing systems-level code in Rust. Compiler, database, or OS implementation experience is highly desired. While compiler implementation experience is not required to apply, the willingness to acquire that experience in our team is required.

Our team is driven by a growth mindset. We are diverse team with a wide range of skills and perspectives. We take on bold risks. We work and play well with others. We love to bring value to internal and external customers. We have learned that our diversity and growth mindset is critical to success in the rapidly changing word of AI-based tools.

Our team is part of the Future of Scalable Software Engineering group in the EngHorizons organization in Microsoft CoreAI. Our mission is to build capabilities to allow Microsoft and our customers to eliminate technical debt at scale. We pioneer new tools and techniques with internal customers and partners, and then work with other product groups to deploy those capabilities at scale across Microsoft and across the industry.

To apply, or recommend someone, visit the Microsoft Career Hub: https://lnkd.in/gvzvAiJE (Job ID 200013722).
 
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Does no-one care any more about elegance or efficiency?
Back in the before times, when the year started with "19" and I was at university, one of my professors suggested this:
Algorithmics - the spirit of computing
which does an excellent job of teaching you about counting every byte and processor tick.
It's anathema to modern "programming" of course, but anyone wanting to follow in the footsteps of Saint Terry may find it instructive.
 
Can anyone explain why troons are so obsessed with Rust? I'm not a programmer but from what I've read it's a decent enough language but that doesn't come close to explaining the cargo cult around it.
Any new concept blows their peanut tranny mind.

As much as it pains me, Lisp nerds, Perl, functional programming, etc, etc has always collected crowds of terribly passionate, borderline religious nerds.
It's more or less along these lines, plus the language origins. Big one IMO is it originated from Mozilla's Graydon Hoare which catalyzed a measure of open-source interest and acceptance that a lot of more corporate-derived languages lack (e.g. Golang). That in turn led to the usual suspects infiltrating the oversight team (in part given Rust's 1.0 release was 2015 and the real start of the current day culture wars) and from there corrupting the entire thing from top to bottom.

Passionate, near-religious nerds especially ring true because I had a former coworker who was a huge Rust fan purely from the hype and marketing. He couldn't say why he likes Rust specifically, let alone why it's superior to e.g. Golang (given at the time we were considering both for our backend services), but goddamn the moment you mention the language we're into a half hour spiel about how he used it and why you should as well (with little hard evidence). I can see the use case for Rust, but the memes about its 1000+ game engines not being used and 12+ hour compile times for basic programs alone make you quickly realize why C/CPP and Java/Golang continue dominating the market.
 
Talk about making the best advertisement for switching to Linux.
NGL: If my professional software was available on a platform other than Windows, I'd consider switching. As it stands, I have a neighbor who offered me an old computer/laptop, and I might see if the offer still stands so I can use it to dabble in some flavor of Linux for my basic word processing, web browsing, and any other tasks that don't require Windows.

unclear call scopes or footguns
Is this akin to C/C++ overloaded operators where the plus sign (+) could represent mathematical addition, string concatenation, or even an overloaded addition function on 3x3 matrices? Overloading has its benefits but it also adds complications for anyone not fully knowing what's going on or the context for the overloaded versions.

Windows 11 is so bad even normies are not moving and word on the street is a lot of enterprises are moving to mac.
I swear I read something elsewhere on the site that the core functions that operate on the lowest level of the operating system are absolutely broken right now in Windows 11. I don't see how a conversion to another language will be successful when the underlying code doesn't even work properly right now. I'd also suspect all the added telemetry hasn't helped, either, because of how invasive that code is in the underlying infrastructure/code base.

Sadly the coder who cares, is skilled and has knowledge of their system is a dying breed. We are replaced by jeets, ai, and most damningly by people who are good office politicians and jockeying for the usual broken corporate promotions and metrics.
I have to agree. When I was still in the field, my last batch of coworkers were an awesome bunch. We knew our individual and collective strengths and knew how to work together to get the most out of our expertise to make both our clients and our managers happy.When our company folded and we were let go, our project manager had hopes of reuniting our core group to keep us working together, but the industry was already starting to change for the worst and I'm pretty sure at least half of us made career changes.

Cheap foreign labor and the demands to cut corners to stay within budget have decimated the field as has AI and everyone who claims they can do the job cheaper without disclosing how the quality of code will be lower than shit tier.
 
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The elites are retarded. I thought Jews were supposed to be super smart?

They claim 6 million died from the holocaust. buts its probably closer to 600k. And most deaths in concentration camps was from disease, not purposeful murder.


Didn't Ubuntu try to go all in on Rust? only to recently roll back since it broke some essential shit.
The elites and their plans strike me as something out of a Dastardly & Muttley episode.
 
OK, so my work switched to Windows11 and it so damn slow. Lots of tricks had to be applied to make my laptop usable, because everything now is just so slooow.

...

There is no way you can get some cache performance optimization with all this paranoid attitude towards pointers and memory allocations.
Don't worry. They recently started preloading the file explorer in the background so it will open faster. Unused ram is wasted ram :D

Why are companies so goddamn obsessed with Rust? I get it's "memory safe", but it just seems so... slow?
You want my schizo take? It's a software backdoor. I don't want to post (an even longer) wall of text but essentially this: https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~rdriley/487/papers/Thompson_1984_ReflectionsonTrustingTrust.pdf

It was feasible with C but since there were multiple compilers it would've probably been caught and boomer glowies didn't know shit about software when C was designed. With rust? Afaik there's only one compiler really (that changes often) and there's no stable ABI so nailing anything down would be challenging. Compile time also is way higher than any other language which will discourage people poking at it / just trying shit. If you wanted to get really conspiratorial any hardware that can compile rust in a reasonable amount of time will also have an IME or PSP.

The FBI currently is recommending people program things in rust. This might be a well-intentioned recommendation to eliminate a common class of (usually very exploitable) bugs in US software or I might be right about my schizo theory. So ask yourself, do you think the government wants secure software or the ability to break into everything? And remember they stockpile 0-day exploits instead of disclosing them to the vendor/project to fix.

Wait, wait wait, you can't even move the taskbar to the left, the place where its been ever since Win 95? I hope the ghost of Sir Wolseley comes back from the grave to personally ass-fuck every Jeet working there with a rusty bayonet.
Correct. Windows 11 lacks features that have been present in every release since 95 and are currently present in essentially every linux DE. People talk about the year of the linux desktop but I think it's going to look more like "the year of 60% mac, 20% linux (15% steamOS, 5% other), and 20% windows market share". Coming 2027-8.

I swear I read something elsewhere on the site that the core functions that operate on the lowest level of the operating system are absolutely broken right now in Windows 11.
Yeah that article was making the rounds recently. One example: https://www.neowin.net/news/microso...ll-major-windows-11-core-features-are-broken/
 
Compatibility is a major issue with the open source office software. When I was doing business via email I jumped ship on the office subscription and just used Google docs to draft and read documents.
Compatibility issues are a huge concern with business documents and data, for sure. I've had to deal with clients blissfully unaware of file compatibility issues when they cant understand why a file from one platform doesn't necessarily open on another lacking native support.

That's why any Linux dabbling I would ever do will stay on a personal/hobby level with LibreOffice being my suite of choice as it is on Windows for as much consistency as possible.

Articles like this convince me that Windows updates are little more than opportunities to add OS-level bloat and scope creep (*cough* AI *cough*) while being a large part of the reason nothing works right any more. Godbear forbid the core code be fixed and working properly before it's ported to a new language or has new features added.
 
Articles like this convince me that Windows updates are little more than opportunities to add OS-level bloat and scope creep (*cough* AI *cough*) while being a large part of the reason nothing works right any more. Godbear forbid the core code be fixed and working properly before it's ported to a new language or has new features added.
It's been that way for a while https://www.askwoody.com/2016/win7-and-8-1-to-get-cumulative-updates/

Neat trick with that: You can find out your IQ by doubling the years you used windows after 2016 and subtracting that from 120. For example I am a ~110 IQ midwit.
 
There are lots of things about C++ that are terrible, like the cancerous way template specialization is implemented, the ways people can abuse operator overloading, or the way type traits can metastasize and eat your code base. That said, there is a very simple principle in engineering: IF IT AIN'T BROKE, DON'T FIX IT.

Are there persistent, unfixable memory errors in the Windows code base that can only be fixed by switching to Rust? Doubtful. What happened is an ideological trannycock-sucking faggot got a position of power and is now living out his fantasy.

Is this akin to C/C++ overloaded operators where the plus sign (+) could represent mathematical addition, string concatenation, or even an overloaded addition function on 3x3 matrices?

The problem is you can do anything and therefore produce nightmare fuel like this:

C++:
#include<iostream>

template<typename T>
struct MyStruct{
  T _s;
};

template<typename T>
MyStruct<T> operator+(MyStruct<T> const &a, MyStruct<T> const &b)
{ return MyStruct<T>{a._s + b._s}; }

template<typename S, typename T>
MyStruct<T> operator+(MyStruct<S> const &a, MyStruct<T> const &b)
{ return MyStruct<T>(); }


int main()
{
    MyStruct<float> onef{1.0};
    MyStruct<int> onei{1};

    std::cout << (onef + onef)._s << "\n";
    std::cout << (onei + onei)._s << "\n";
    std::cout << (onef + onei)._s << "\n";
 
    return 0;
}

Compile this and run it yourself. I have seen worse things in production code.
 
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Problem - reaction - solution.

In this case, ms already has the solution, subscription cloud based everything. You will own nothing and you will be happy. In this case you will never have a local copy of anything on your computer, you will have to log into 'the cloud' for everything. This covers everything, messaging, photos, receipts, house deeds, anything business related. Yes I realise of lot of people already stupidly do all of the prior, this is to force the rest.

It's just another step in the digitalID, track everything they buy, do, and say world we have coming. Where everything you do and say will have consequences, from being locked out of your social media accounts for a period of time, to losing credits that will allow you to buy that tasty 3D printed goyslop meat, to being debanked.

___

For anyone that is still going '2030' what's that, FFS where have you come from, reddit? I'm going to assume the answer to that is yes. No one with half a brain even questions the reality of 'agenda 21/2030/2050'. 'They' have been shouting from the rooftops for years about it, they have the plans already drawn up, and 'how to manuals' already in existence.

Before us serfs started calling the wef/un out of their shit, they even used to have an agenda 21 website, where you could download all the documents you would ever need to understand what the fuck is going to happen. Those documents still exist, they are just harder to find, and have been superseded by the updated 2030/2050 ones. They have also got better in obfuscating their involvement, with organisations such as ARUP who 'used' the universities to 'come up' with reports such as C40.

Welcome to the 'everything you have every been taught is a lie' reality of life, have fun, enjoy the ride, try not to kill yourself at the end.

Oh, and gates 'owns' the un by the way.
 
In this case you will never have a local copy of anything on your computer, you will have to log into 'the cloud' for everything.

Nearly all of Microsoft's Windows revenue comes from enterprise customers, both businesses buying enterprise licenses and mega-deals with OEMs like Lenovo and Dell. These are already recurring streams of revenue, and if they were to fuck over literally their entire customer base, companies whose buying power is the sort that can turn a Fortune 100 company into a Chapter 11 situation overnight, it would end Windows.

For example, in 2024, about 186 million laptops shipped. Nearly all of these have either Windows Home OEM or Windows Enterprise, so representing probably in the neighborhood of $10-$15 billion of Windows' $23 billion of revenue. Oh, and those 186 million laptops represent 130 million Intel chips shipped.

If Microsoft announces their plan to destroy the laptop business, what do you think Intel, Lenovo, Dell, and HP will do? Just take it on the chin? People think SteamOS is a big deal. It isn't. But imagine something like SteamOS, except backed by Fortune 100 companies with a fully tard-wrangled DE, BC mandates, and release cadence. It would end Windows forever.

Oh, and gates 'owns' the un by the way.
Gates hasn't run Microsoft for decades.
 
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As this is not a nerd thread I will give you a small story about big application design that will stun you. All of my fellow tech bros will know this pain all too well. This whole Rust rewrite (it could really be any language it honestly doesn't matter) will run into tens of thousands of issues like I am about to describe. I will paraphrase to avoid too much tech specific stuff.

Some years ago I worked for a small private equity company that produced and sold a single Java based SAAS product. They had some $100M in revenue. It was a cool place to work. Now, I was working on a feature one time that had to function dependent on the version of the software a given account was using. As this is a SAAS product it functions like an account you login to but the application itself was hosted on our own servers. It was just "yours." For reasons I was unaware of certain accounts would be on different versions and updates were propagated across the infrastructure in a piece by piece way. With various holdouts retaining older versions for whatever reason. Normally agreements with the company that they wanted to stay on X version until some time in the future.

We did a lot of "shadow release" shit where you push features to all accounts regardless of version but just didn't expose it based on the version itself. This was to keep the underlying code base consistent. Which is where we get to the current dillemma. My feature had to find out which version the account was on to work conditionally. But the version information was not stored in the code base or anything it was in an account specific TEXT FILE on our internal servers. Which was updated in an entirely separate process. So a given account was literally just reading some text file to tell you which version it was. The secondary service was completely independent to update this so you had tons of situations where a version update was propagated but the retarded text file never updated along with it. So my feature in this case was fucking up because it could never truly verify the version without even more retarded logic to look for things you knew were version specific then conditionally work. Leadership had me implement the more retarded workaround which persists to this day and has to be updated with every version. Adding tech debt.

Now I will bet you every single penny I have that Microsoft has thousands or even tens of thousands of fucktarded solutions like this across their 40 years of business and thousands of applications they support. I guarantee you that an absolutely critical process to Microsofts continued operation for a billion dollar product is critically dependent on some office drone uploading an excel sheet to some sharepoint drive somewhere and that's just what that team has done for 20 years and he has no idea why.

Now convert all of that to Rust because lol. Fire all of your seniors and replace them with Indians for additional hilarity. Let the good times roll.


I swear I read something elsewhere on the site that the core functions that operate on the lowest level of the operating system are absolutely broken right now in Windows 11. I don't see how a conversion to another language will be successful when the underlying code doesn't even work properly right now. I'd also suspect all the added telemetry hasn't helped, either, because of how invasive that code is in the underlying infrastructure/code base.
This is discussed some in the Windows/Programming threads. Win11 removed the POSIX file structure you would use on your local drive. Because the metadata tag system that is used in Cloud storage doesn't use it. For non nerds this means that your file in "directory/folder/folder/file.txt" is not actually in that location it just has an extended file name that shows that. While this superficially looks the same it has the side effect of making many functions of many languages simply not work. Because standard programming functions of "retrieve file from this folder" no longer function.

I have not messed around with this but I have been reading it some here on the farms. In order to workaround this you need to do some convoluted mounting so the folder structure exists so you can then use normal system functions like you have for the past 50 years.

That is just one of the pain points too.
 
This is discussed some in the Windows/Programming threads. Win11 removed the POSIX file structure you would use on your local drive. Because the metadata tag system that is used in Cloud storage doesn't use it. For non nerds this means that your file in "directory/folder/folder/file.txt" is not actually in that location it just has an extended file name that shows that. While this superficially looks the same it has the side effect of making many functions of many languages simply not work. Because standard programming functions of "retrieve file from this folder" no longer function.

I have not messed around with this but I have been reading it some here on the farms. In order to workaround this you need to do some convoluted mounting so the folder structure exists so you can then use normal system functions like you have for the past 50 years.

That is just one of the pain points too.
I suspect many jeets working on web applications don't understand S3 doesn't actually have real directories and it just looks that way.

That they put that in the actual kernel too is fucking wild.
 
I'll admit it's been eleventy thousand years since I did any serious coding, but this stood out to me. Since when has the goal been to create the most lines of code possible? Does no-one care any more about elegance or efficiency?
It sounds good. I’ve heard people in my industry talk about ‘100 day trials’ and it’s just a number that sounds good. It’ll have got out on a PowerPoint and shoved in front of someone with a line that goes up and to the right and some guff about AI and synergistically claiming efficiencies across blah blah to drive blah blah and now it’s a Goal
The fact that you can’t test a drug for safety in 100 days is neither here nor there for these people. The number just sounds good.
 
Compatibility is a major issue with the open source office software. When I was doing business via email I jumped ship on the office subscription and just used Google docs to draft and read documents.
Fortunately LibreOffice works just fine with Word and Excel docs (well, mostly except when it comes to certain spreadsheet things that just don't format properly in LibreOffice). I actually saved the business my dad worked for a bit of money by recommending they ditch Word and Excel where possible for LibreOffice. Wasn't a big place he worked at and they couldn't replace the copies the women in the front office were using for obvious reasons, but all of the backroom stuff was doable. I think technically it was a violation of the ToS to be used for business use like that, but nobody reads those anyways, but since he gave LibreOffice some money in donations as thanks I think its fair.
This is discussed some in the Windows/Programming threads. Win11 removed the POSIX file structure you would use on your local drive. Because the metadata tag system that is used in Cloud storage doesn't use it. For non nerds this means that your file in "directory/folder/folder/file.txt" is not actually in that location it just has an extended file name that shows that. While this superficially looks the same it has the side effect of making many functions of many languages simply not work. Because standard programming functions of "retrieve file from this folder" no longer function.
They... they... got rid of file and folder pointers just like that?

Fuck, I probably would be on the verge of eating a bullet if I had accidentally swapped over to it at any point.
 
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