MrJokerRager
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2019
Kojima has a knack for pissing off people like David Hayter for example. And probably should have worked on P.T. after finishing off his grand masterpiece but hindsight is 2020.
Metal Gear
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- Joined
- Dec 17, 2019
IIRC cameras actually do end up getting installed at the African Oil Refinery and Airbase. I think they *might* be at the Afghanistan military base too, but that might only be during the Mamal Pod mission and not free roam.
Also I'm absolutely certain that Mother Base, or at the very least FOB's, were said to be completely customizable in terms of layout and paint jobs up to about a month or two before release. It was why I was actually excited for FOB's and when the game came out I was really confused as there wasn't much you could plan out with them at all.
It's actually really weird that they would have kept the ATV dialogue in the game when they never got anywhere NEAR implementing them, while they had everything set to go for Armored Vehicle and Helicopter Patrols in free roam and then just decided not to implement them.
MGS V is certainly an oddity of development. I get that it was a first for open world gameplay for Kojima Productions, but like...most first time open world games tend to be the buggiest shit imaginable. With Phantom Pain everything is very polished but then it's like half the game is missing. The development of the Fox Engine concurrent with MGS V must have been a real cluster fuck. I really do wonder if they couldn't have just gotten the results they actually wanted if they just went with Unreal or something else.
It's really sad. MGS V is probably the greatest military action/stealth game I've ever played while also being disappointing as all hell. There's so much damn potential there. And to think instead of doing some kind of expansion sequel they chose to do Metal Gear Survive of all things...
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2013
Was half the shit not cut because it needed to run on a PS3 and 360?
It's a miracle that it does, but those versions where holding the entire game back.
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2019
If they were cut for those reasons they should have been cut far earlier in development, before any actual development sould have been done. MGS V started development on PS3/360 and took so long to make it was ported to next gen after the fact.
That is probably a part of the cluster fuck of its development though. I would think that developing the Fox Engine that late into the generation was because they had plans for it in the next generation, but at the same time why would Konami not greenlight MGS V being developed as a next gen game at that point as well?
The whole thing is just odd. If Kojima had some vision in mind, but Konami insisted it be cross generational...why not just develop the next gen version and then cut and scale back for the last gen version? Everyone was doing that. Just look at Shadow of Mordor and Watch Dogs.
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- Joined
- Aug 18, 2020
My unpopular MGS opinion: I don't like The Boss. She's basically the patron saint of "just following orders." She continues to follow her superiors even after they repeatedly betray her. Loyalty is one thing, but when her superiors have no loyalty in return it just makes her look like an exceptionally talented useful idiot.
One of the cornerstones of her ideology is that "enemies change with the times." This is treated by the other characters as some incredibly deep insight when it's patently obvious to anyone with a basic grasp on human history. The other point of her massive infodump at the end of MGS3 was a tract on globalism. I'm not going to comment on that one way or the other but why do Japanese developers always feel the need to push the "no borders" angle? They live in the second most ethnically homogeneous nations on Earth and treat foreigners like shit. I'll listen to their thoughts on globalism when they have experienced it.
I could stomach all this but her life and motives served as the driving force for every influential figure for the next forty years. A huge cold war between Zero and Big Boss that is party responsible for a massive surveillance state and the war economy came about entirely because they interpreted her will in different ways. They then spent the rest of the series lecturing the player about how Christ-like she was.
TL: DR The Boss is a hopelessly naive useful idiot.
One of the cornerstones of her ideology is that "enemies change with the times." This is treated by the other characters as some incredibly deep insight when it's patently obvious to anyone with a basic grasp on human history. The other point of her massive infodump at the end of MGS3 was a tract on globalism. I'm not going to comment on that one way or the other but why do Japanese developers always feel the need to push the "no borders" angle? They live in the second most ethnically homogeneous nations on Earth and treat foreigners like shit. I'll listen to their thoughts on globalism when they have experienced it.
I could stomach all this but her life and motives served as the driving force for every influential figure for the next forty years. A huge cold war between Zero and Big Boss that is party responsible for a massive surveillance state and the war economy came about entirely because they interpreted her will in different ways. They then spent the rest of the series lecturing the player about how Christ-like she was.
TL: DR The Boss is a hopelessly naive useful idiot.
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- Joined
- Aug 17, 2018
My problem with the Boss was that the twist was completely butchered.
The Boss betrays you the moment she's introduced, so her "betrayal" had zero impact. So I couldn't care about her not really betraying Snake either.
You can't just dump a sob story in a really long cut scene at the very end and expect me to give a shit.
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2016
I had the twist spoiled for me long before I ever touched MGS3, so I wasn't emotionally devastated by the ending as others were. Not to say it didn't completely affect me, because seeing Big Boss wordlessly accepting his award, ignoring his comrades, and saluting the Boss' grave is powerful. It's just that the Boss' death and ideology never touched me as deeply as everyone else.
Sometimes I wish I didn't have the ending spoiled so that the twist could have been an actual surprise, because by the time I played it I wouldn't have been smart enough to figure it out on my own.
Sometimes I wish I didn't have the ending spoiled so that the twist could have been an actual surprise, because by the time I played it I wouldn't have been smart enough to figure it out on my own.
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2019
You know, I looked back on a few MGS games and scenes and here is something I felt off about them
MGS 4 - Am I the only one disappointed we never had the Patriots' AIs talking like in 2? They did show to be frighteningly smart and very controlling. You would think that a scene or two with an "avatar" of the AIs appearing to talk with some of the characters, maybe Snake or Liquid Ocelot, perhaps to try to convince them why its preservation is the most beneficial outcome for humanity and that humanity CANNOT exist without them long term...that all the tech, nano machines and etc will not simply balance itself out. Without their control, they will only get more and more powerful until humanity figures a way to eliminate itself. Yeah, this could all sort of foreshadow MGR and its borderline cartoonishly OP nanomachines (lets not be naive and think that the nanomachines the Desperados used have died with them), imagine if Armstrong's nanomachines fell into (more) wrong hands? Raiden cant exactly kill an entire army of nanomachine supermen, he is still one cyborg at the end of the day. The Patriots most likely knew this outcome with nanomachines bringing forward walking Weapons of Mass Destruction and knew that their control, while morally evil, was the most beneficial outcome for humanity. Besides, I even imagined one of the AIs mocking Snake's decaying mortality by saying that they will be immortal and ever lasting while he will only have a year at best to live, to which Snake just gives them his equivalent of "Fuck you" cleverly while not letting that get in his way.
The patriots's AI felt scary in 2, in 4 they are pretty much non existant.
MGS 5 - The scene where they say Liquid isnt Venom's son always bothered me, are we ignoring that they outright told the twist right there? You can say its foreshadowing but I disagree, anyone who knows MGS can tell what this means. What? Are they seriously saying Liquid suddenly ISNT Big Boss's son at all? That he never had any connection to Big Boss and that maybe his entire backstory was a lie told him? Or the most likely scenario that we arent playing as the real big boss at all? Which of these fucks up the lore the least? The only other possibility is that it was a lie or botched result (which could work but clearly they werent building towards that). I have a lot of problems with MGS 5's story (I honestly think MGS 5 went for a "gameplay over story" approach like MGR) but this was one of the scenes that made me wonder what was Kojima thinking...he just spoiled his own twist right there!
To be honest, what you are doing is an "interpretation" of her will. MGS4 did conclude her true Will was to let the world be. What she wanted was for the world to just get along and yet maintain their indepedency. The "no borders" wasnt for globalism necessarily, it was just for the world to come together and not focus on supremacy but rather being capable of laying down their weapons for a better world when there is no need for fighting.
It was perhaps too idealistic to ever come true and maybe thats the whole point, both Big Boss and Zero tried to do their own version of this "perfect" world and both versions did come true in the worst way possible. The Boss was a good person that had her entire life controlled, her wishing a world without "control" was expected of her.
What she wanted was for the Cold War to end and people to just stop needless violence, she had lived this her entire life...however I doubt she wanted needless control and violence to achieve this ideal world (which are the methods Big Boss and Zero used). In the end, Solid Snake was the true carrier of her will, he wanted to create a free world without weapons of mass destruction, where people could decide for themselves but be ready to defend themselves and others, simply for it being the correct thing.
MGS 4 - Am I the only one disappointed we never had the Patriots' AIs talking like in 2? They did show to be frighteningly smart and very controlling. You would think that a scene or two with an "avatar" of the AIs appearing to talk with some of the characters, maybe Snake or Liquid Ocelot, perhaps to try to convince them why its preservation is the most beneficial outcome for humanity and that humanity CANNOT exist without them long term...that all the tech, nano machines and etc will not simply balance itself out. Without their control, they will only get more and more powerful until humanity figures a way to eliminate itself. Yeah, this could all sort of foreshadow MGR and its borderline cartoonishly OP nanomachines (lets not be naive and think that the nanomachines the Desperados used have died with them), imagine if Armstrong's nanomachines fell into (more) wrong hands? Raiden cant exactly kill an entire army of nanomachine supermen, he is still one cyborg at the end of the day. The Patriots most likely knew this outcome with nanomachines bringing forward walking Weapons of Mass Destruction and knew that their control, while morally evil, was the most beneficial outcome for humanity. Besides, I even imagined one of the AIs mocking Snake's decaying mortality by saying that they will be immortal and ever lasting while he will only have a year at best to live, to which Snake just gives them his equivalent of "Fuck you" cleverly while not letting that get in his way.
The patriots's AI felt scary in 2, in 4 they are pretty much non existant.
MGS 5 - The scene where they say Liquid isnt Venom's son always bothered me, are we ignoring that they outright told the twist right there? You can say its foreshadowing but I disagree, anyone who knows MGS can tell what this means. What? Are they seriously saying Liquid suddenly ISNT Big Boss's son at all? That he never had any connection to Big Boss and that maybe his entire backstory was a lie told him? Or the most likely scenario that we arent playing as the real big boss at all? Which of these fucks up the lore the least? The only other possibility is that it was a lie or botched result (which could work but clearly they werent building towards that). I have a lot of problems with MGS 5's story (I honestly think MGS 5 went for a "gameplay over story" approach like MGR) but this was one of the scenes that made me wonder what was Kojima thinking...he just spoiled his own twist right there!
To be honest, what you are doing is an "interpretation" of her will. MGS4 did conclude her true Will was to let the world be. What she wanted was for the world to just get along and yet maintain their indepedency. The "no borders" wasnt for globalism necessarily, it was just for the world to come together and not focus on supremacy but rather being capable of laying down their weapons for a better world when there is no need for fighting.
It was perhaps too idealistic to ever come true and maybe thats the whole point, both Big Boss and Zero tried to do their own version of this "perfect" world and both versions did come true in the worst way possible. The Boss was a good person that had her entire life controlled, her wishing a world without "control" was expected of her.
What she wanted was for the Cold War to end and people to just stop needless violence, she had lived this her entire life...however I doubt she wanted needless control and violence to achieve this ideal world (which are the methods Big Boss and Zero used). In the end, Solid Snake was the true carrier of her will, he wanted to create a free world without weapons of mass destruction, where people could decide for themselves but be ready to defend themselves and others, simply for it being the correct thing.
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- Joined
- Aug 18, 2020
You're right, of course. That was certainly the intention. I just didn't think it was as deep or noble as the game seems to think and am just slightly resentful that it was treated as such *shrugs*. Besides, for someone who wanted an end to senseless violence she killed a lot of people, including nuking an entire base full of noncombatants. This is as big a war crime as it gets and would be a big deal in a well-written game, but Snake Eater is just like, "welp, that happened. Boss fight!"
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2019
Honestly, the only reason I liked the ending of Peace Walker was cause Big Boss was kind of like "Fuck the Boss, I'm doing my own thing."
I really hate how The Boss became the mesiah of the series.
I really hate how The Boss became the mesiah of the series.
Noideawhattopick
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jul 10, 2019
It's insane how much I enjoy MgsV. I just can't stop trying so many variations of sneaking mixed with Rambo-action.
Even Ground Zeroes is fucking awesome sometimes.
I really enjoy the open world aspect.
Say what you want about Kojima but he and his crew knew how to make games like this.
Even Ground Zeroes is fucking awesome sometimes.
I really enjoy the open world aspect.
Say what you want about Kojima but he and his crew knew how to make games like this.
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2019
Humm, if The Boss is meant to be "God"
Big Boss and Zero are sort of the followers of God, tho both interpretating its will differently.
So with that we can conclude...
Revolver Ocelot is motherfucking Jesus Christ. And his death was the start of a new good age.
Kojima, everyone!
Big Boss and Zero are sort of the followers of God, tho both interpretating its will differently.
So with that we can conclude...
Revolver Ocelot is motherfucking Jesus Christ. And his death was the start of a new good age.
Kojima, everyone!
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2020
Does that make Snake Judas Iscariot?
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2015
In the context of Phantom Pain being out Big Boss telling Snake "You've killed me twice already, this will mark the third" in MGS4 you can now read Big Boss's mind and know he's thinking "I've got maybe three minutes left. I'm just not going to bother talking about Venom Snake"
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2019
The most likely in-universe explanation (as the out of verse reason is obvious that MGS 5 didnt exist yet) is that Big Boss knew he was running low on time before Foxdie killed him so he didnt want to bother having to explain that Snake only killed his "phantom" in MG1. It didnt add anything since they were both dying and its not like Snake would ever care about this information given his days were counted (and Big Boss wanted him to quit all the soldier stuff and actually live out his last year of life in peace).
Besides, in a cold way, Venom Snake played his part and now there was no further "use" for him anymore. Its almost symbolic because if MGS5 never happened, we wouldnt even know that Venom Snake existed.
His fate, sadly, was being forgotten or omitted even by the man he admired.
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2014
I could kind of see Big Boss trying to explain Venom Snake and all the things he did to him might have muddled up the moment a bit.
"So I had this loyal soldier that tried to shield me from an explosion and decided to have him under go plastic surgery and Ocelot mind fuckery to make him think he was me and draw all the heat from Cipher, Skull Face, a demon hell spawn guy and all sorts of adventures so I could have an easier time for a bit. Oh I also sent him to rescue my best friend at the time who was in a bad spot. Some guy named Miller you probably never met him, he was a bit of an asshole. Anyway Venom also totally met your brother Liquid oh what a fun time they must have had together. Then I accidentally led you into killing him when I was trying to get you killed instead. He was a good friend. Hey where are you going? Why are you walking away? Can't you at least take me to her before you go? Hey get back here!"
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2020
I always remember reading an LP on the somethingawful archive of MG2: Solid Snake. After beating Kyle Schneider (I forget his space ninja name) the player goes on and on about how dumb it is that:
a) Snake immediately assumes from Schneider's vague allusion that Big Boss survived the destruction and subsequent bombing of Outer Heaven
b) He's actually right
It's only reading the quoted paragraph I realize that, in trying to fix the above, Kojima somehow made a story that's even stupider. It's almost impressive.
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2019
I've said since release that Venom Snake has been the absolute dumbest Kojima twist ever, and the fact more of his fanboys don't see all of the obvious flaws present in the game and their own reasoning for it being necessary makes them all look dumb.
First, they tend to say it was necessary to explain how Big Boss survived Metal Gear. This is a question that I had never seen anyone ask or care about in all my years of being in the Metal Gear fandom. This is just a bullshit fanboy justification because nobody ever questions how Gray Fox survives Metal Gear 2, how Liquid survives at least 3 separate death scenarios in Metal Gear Solid, etc. etc.
Second, they say that it was necessary in order to make Big Boss "evil again." Once again, this is a stupid because Venom Snake witnesses Big Boss go into a coma before (presumably) passing out. So basically...Big Boss wasn't involved in the plan at all. It was a Zero plot. "Oh, but Big Boss still took part when he woke up!" you say. Well...I mean, the brainwashing had already been done at that point. If you go by the truth tapes, the plastic surgery had already been done as well. It's more a matter of him taking advantage of something he couldn't stop than anything else which really doesn't make him out to be that evil just dealing with a situation he was handed.
Then you get into all of the inconsistencies that are presented in the narrative itself
First, Big Boss despite being shielded from the bomb blast and coming out almost completely unscathed mysteriously goes into a coma while the medic who took the full force of the bomb blast and all that shrapnel is conscious up to the point that Big Boss slips into the coma so he can witness it. Am I to assume then as part of Zeros plan he was put into a coma?
Miller is fully awake when Big Boss goes into a coma, and specifically asks about and looks at the medic and is told he took some shrapnel to the head. So he witnesses a perfectly normal looking big boss go into a coma, then see's the medic with a big ass fucking horn in his head. 9 years later, Big Boss with a big ass horn in his head rescues him...and he doesn't suspect anything at all? Doesn't ask where the horn came from? Is shocked and upset when Ocelot reveals what should be an OBVIOUS truth to him?
The truth tapes establish that Zero could not tell the two apart, meaning that the plastic surgery must have happened while they were both under and not weeks after Venom wakes up like is shown in the actual mission.
Also in the truth tapes, it's established that they "wake up" Venom. If this is the case, it makes it sound like he was put into a coma. Doesn't it stand to reason then that he could have possibly AGREED to this "horrible" plan due to his loyalty to Big Boss? (negating the "it was needed to make Big Boss evil" excuse) It also makes me wonder why the hell they needed a code for Venom Snakes awakening (V has come to) if they were able to control it the whole time. You can SAY they used it when Big Boss woke up, but the game presents it as being done when VENOM woke up.
Then you have the entire timeline of events as shown in the truth mission. Venom and Ishmael escape a pursuing Man on Fire only to have an attack chopper start to pursue them. They go into a tunnel and then crash at the end of it. We are then shown that while Venom was knocked out Ocelot came by at 2:32 AM, picked up Big Boss, took him safety, then came back for Venom at 3:07 AM only to suddenly have the attack chopper that was at the other end of the tunnel show up and get attacked by the man on fire. So basically, this attack chopper and the man on fire just...fucked off for over a half hour?
Also, what good was it giving Big Boss a motorcycle to escape the ISLAND of Cyprus? (this has nothing to do with the twist, it's just dumb)
This isn't even getting into how the twist is supposedly clever because "oh it makes the player Big Boss" but it isn't really clever because this was pretty much the whole fucking point of Raiden in MGS2 already.
Honestly, there are so many inconsistencies and holes in the Venom Snake twist I prefer to just think it really is Big Boss suffering from DID over the guilt of getting the medic killed as well as the events of Shining Lights. That'd somehow make more sense given the Paz side story.
First, they tend to say it was necessary to explain how Big Boss survived Metal Gear. This is a question that I had never seen anyone ask or care about in all my years of being in the Metal Gear fandom. This is just a bullshit fanboy justification because nobody ever questions how Gray Fox survives Metal Gear 2, how Liquid survives at least 3 separate death scenarios in Metal Gear Solid, etc. etc.
Second, they say that it was necessary in order to make Big Boss "evil again." Once again, this is a stupid because Venom Snake witnesses Big Boss go into a coma before (presumably) passing out. So basically...Big Boss wasn't involved in the plan at all. It was a Zero plot. "Oh, but Big Boss still took part when he woke up!" you say. Well...I mean, the brainwashing had already been done at that point. If you go by the truth tapes, the plastic surgery had already been done as well. It's more a matter of him taking advantage of something he couldn't stop than anything else which really doesn't make him out to be that evil just dealing with a situation he was handed.
Then you get into all of the inconsistencies that are presented in the narrative itself
First, Big Boss despite being shielded from the bomb blast and coming out almost completely unscathed mysteriously goes into a coma while the medic who took the full force of the bomb blast and all that shrapnel is conscious up to the point that Big Boss slips into the coma so he can witness it. Am I to assume then as part of Zeros plan he was put into a coma?
Miller is fully awake when Big Boss goes into a coma, and specifically asks about and looks at the medic and is told he took some shrapnel to the head. So he witnesses a perfectly normal looking big boss go into a coma, then see's the medic with a big ass fucking horn in his head. 9 years later, Big Boss with a big ass horn in his head rescues him...and he doesn't suspect anything at all? Doesn't ask where the horn came from? Is shocked and upset when Ocelot reveals what should be an OBVIOUS truth to him?
The truth tapes establish that Zero could not tell the two apart, meaning that the plastic surgery must have happened while they were both under and not weeks after Venom wakes up like is shown in the actual mission.
Also in the truth tapes, it's established that they "wake up" Venom. If this is the case, it makes it sound like he was put into a coma. Doesn't it stand to reason then that he could have possibly AGREED to this "horrible" plan due to his loyalty to Big Boss? (negating the "it was needed to make Big Boss evil" excuse) It also makes me wonder why the hell they needed a code for Venom Snakes awakening (V has come to) if they were able to control it the whole time. You can SAY they used it when Big Boss woke up, but the game presents it as being done when VENOM woke up.
Then you have the entire timeline of events as shown in the truth mission. Venom and Ishmael escape a pursuing Man on Fire only to have an attack chopper start to pursue them. They go into a tunnel and then crash at the end of it. We are then shown that while Venom was knocked out Ocelot came by at 2:32 AM, picked up Big Boss, took him safety, then came back for Venom at 3:07 AM only to suddenly have the attack chopper that was at the other end of the tunnel show up and get attacked by the man on fire. So basically, this attack chopper and the man on fire just...fucked off for over a half hour?
Also, what good was it giving Big Boss a motorcycle to escape the ISLAND of Cyprus? (this has nothing to do with the twist, it's just dumb)
This isn't even getting into how the twist is supposedly clever because "oh it makes the player Big Boss" but it isn't really clever because this was pretty much the whole fucking point of Raiden in MGS2 already.
Honestly, there are so many inconsistencies and holes in the Venom Snake twist I prefer to just think it really is Big Boss suffering from DID over the guilt of getting the medic killed as well as the events of Shining Lights. That'd somehow make more sense given the Paz side story.
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2019
It's terribly tragic, in my mind's eye I can see The Phantom Pain as the absolute masterpiece it came so close to being so clearly that it breaks my heart it just wasn't able to stick the landing.
There's so much about The Phantom Pain that is absolutely fascinating, but it's like looking at puzzle pieces and not the finished puzzle.