Metal Gear

[war has changed]

now I dont wanna play peace walker and 5 so much. his goofball shit was my favorite part of 3.

I wouldn't say the goofball is completely gone, just hidden behind exposition tapes in PW, which has it better in that department - character interactions and development are legit wholesome (for me at least). Instead of codec/radio calls you get the tapes, and while it takes away a lot of the spontaneity and urgency it's okay in its own right.

V though, is the polar opposite, even in the cassettes. BB is just an exposition depositer - you hear info, get some idea as to what the world you're living in is now like, and that's it. Very choice tapes are somewhat free of tension, and human.

Edit to add a couple words.

 

[Burned Man]

I wouldn't say the goofball is completely gone, just hidden behind exposition tapes in PW, which has it better in that department - character interactions and development are legit wholesome (for me at least). Instead of codec/radio calls you get the tapes, and while it takes away a lot of the spontaneity and urgency it's okay in its own right.

V though, is the polar opposite, even in the cassettes. BB is just an exposition depositer - you hear info, get some idea as to what the world you're living in is now like, and that's it. Very choice tapes are somewhat free of tension, and human.

Edit to add a couple words.

There is also that one moment where you have to search some trucks that has a few goofy bits not to mention hanging out with Miller on the beach. I loved all the tape stories and how it made MSF seem like a great group to be a part of and was hoping to see some of that stuff in V.

Most of the goofiness in V is in the gameplay and only if you want to play that way. The story and characters are played almost entirely straight. The only goofiness that comes to mind is Miller's future business plans.

 

[HeyYou]

There is also that one moment where you have to search some trucks that has a few goofy bits not to mention hanging out with Miller on the beach. I loved all the tape stories and how it made MSF seem like a great group to be a part of and was hoping to see some of that stuff in V.

Most of the goofiness in V is in the gameplay and only if you want to play that way. The story and characters are played almost entirely straight. The only goofiness that comes to mind is Miller's future business plans.

Big Medic and Quiet playing in the rain was goofy as hell, but that's probably not what Kojima intended with that scene.

 

[The handsome tard]

Big Medic and Quiet playing in the rain was goofy as hell, but that's probably not what Kojima intended with that scene.

It was both "awww she is happy playing in the rain like a free child" and "Fuck, a bikini clad woman wet in the rain playing around as her tits bounce"

 

[Ruin]

It was both "awww she is happy playing in the rain like a free child" and "Fuck, a bikini clad woman wet in the rain playing around as her tits bounce"

Isn't her carefree child like persona later revealed to be an act and her purpose was to infiltrate mother base and cause a parasite outbreak which her falling in love with Venom prevented?

 

[The handsome tard]

Isn't her carefree child like persona later revealed to be an act and her purpose was to infiltrate mother base and cause a parasite outbreak which her falling in love with Venom prevented?

Yeah but I'm just talking what the scene showed to us

 

[Ruin]

Yeah but I'm just talking what the scene showed to us

It was all pointless because that sped Huey fucked it up anyways.

 

[Zarkov]

Isn't her carefree child like persona later revealed to be an act and her purpose was to infiltrate mother base and cause a parasite outbreak which her falling in love with Venom prevented?

She wasn't a spy, she fell in love with Venom for real. She never planned to cause a parasite outbreak, in fact Huey causing the outbreak is what convinced her she was a risk to everyone and prompted her to leave. Miller thinks she joined DD just for another shot at killing Venom and/or sabotage their operation, but if true she abandoned this plan rather quickly.

 

[Jaimas]

It was both "awww she is happy playing in the rain like a free child" and "Fuck, a bikini clad woman wet in the rain playing around as her tits bounce"

No joke, I love that scene. It's silly as hell and absolutely ridiculous, but the reason I like it is because it's one of the few scenes in the game to show genuine whimsy, something that due to the dark nature of MGS5's overall plot and progression, is rather in short supply, when it isn't being caused by the player, I mean.

Even someone as cynical as me could go "All right, this is symbolic for the pair letting their guard down for once." And then I laughed my ass off because the game was embracing the silliness of it and putting doves flying in the background when they embraced.

 

[The handsome tard]

You know, in a hypothetical sequel to MGS 5 set after Rising where we control someone using mostly MGS styled gameplay...

How honesly would it work now that the world seems to be entirely composed of cyborg ninjas? CNs were awesome when MGS had them sparingly, Rising made it seem like now there is one around every corner. Besides, now that nano-machines can give borderline invulnerability, whats stopping someone from mass producing them? MGS 4 at least made Vamp's nano machines seem like one of a kind. Its just impossible to have the subtle and legit stealth of the series in a post Rising era where everything now just looks like something out of a Platinum game...oh wait.

I think its one of the reasons why I think that Rising just cant be canon (or at least not canon to the main universe), because it showed the prospect of a world that barely resembles that of MGS outside of Raiden himself and cyborg ninjas.

 

[Burned Man]

You know, in a hypothetical sequel to MGS 5 set after Rising where we control someone using mostly MGS styled gameplay...

How honesly would it work now that the world seems to be entirely composed of cyborg ninjas? CNs were awesome when MGS had them sparingly, Rising made it seem like now there is one around every corner. Besides, now that nano-machines can give borderline invulnerability, whats stopping someone from mass producing them? MGS 4 at least made Vamp's nano machines seem like one of a kind. Its just impossible to have the subtle and legit stealth of the series in a post Rising era where everything now just looks like something out of a Platinum game...oh wait.

I think its one of the reasons why I think that Rising just cant be canon (or at least not canon to the main universe), because it showed the prospect of a world that barely resembles that of MGS outside of Raiden himself and cyborg ninjas.

I like to think Armstrong's nanomachines were a one of a kind thing too considering it caught both Raiden and Sam off guard and if it was common place tech to be that op with nanomachines someone would have figured it out before Armstrong told them.

As for Cyborgs I also like to think that the bosses and Raiden himself are all like 1 out of a thousand compared to your average cyborg. Most cyborgs would be on par with the Maverick guys Sam cuts up in the begining cut scene. The winds of destruction are to cyborgs what Foxhound was to your average soldier. I think you could still have a normal MGS game on par with 4 by just adding some new tech to the hero designed to counter Cyborg soldiers like Snake's gear designed to fuck with the pmcs in 4.

As far as I'm concerned you can still have adventures that resemble MGS in a post Rising world just by saying what happened in Rising was extreme circumstances. Armstrong had the strongest private military in the world behind him and had to project enough force to stop Raiden a guy that was strong enough to stop battleship when he was still in an older cyborg model suit. You can still have all the enemies introduced in Rising but you just need to have less of them and make them bosses or threats you're not supposed to fight. The average cyborg soldier still has a human brain which means they can be outwitted so stealth would still work.

While I don't think Snake could have survived Rising as presented I think he could still could have had adventures in the setting. I also could easily imagine a Platinum version of 4 and 5 considering the amount of nanomachine/ parasite magic happening those games when you remember the silly bullshit the Frogs and the Skulls were capable of.

 

[The handsome tard]

I like to think Armstrong's nanomachines were a one of a kind thing too considering it caught both Raiden and Sam off guard and if it was common place tech to be that op with nanomachines someone would have figured it out before Armstrong told them.

As for Cyborgs I also like to think that the bosses and Raiden himself are all like 1 out of a thousand compared to your average cyborg. Most cyborgs would be on par with the Maverick guys Sam cuts up in the begining cut scene. The winds of destruction are to cyborgs what Foxhound was to your average soldier. I think you could still have a normal MGS game on par with 4 by just adding some new tech to the hero designed to counter Cyborg soldiers like Snake's gear designed to fuck with the pmcs in 4.

As far as I'm concerned you can still have adventures that resemble MGS in a post Rising world just by saying what happened in Rising was extreme circumstances. Armstrong had the strongest private military in the world behind him and had to project enough force to stop Raiden a guy that was strong enough to stop battleship when he was still in an older cyborg model suit. You can still have all the enemies introduced in Rising but you just need to have less of them and make them bosses or threats you're not supposed to fight. The average cyborg soldier still has a human brain which means they can be outwitted so stealth would still work.

While I don't think Snake could have survived Rising as presented I think he could still could have had adventures in the setting. I also could easily imagine a Platinum version of 4 and 5 considering the amount of nanomachine/ parasite magic happening those games when you remember the silly bullshit the Frogs and the Skulls were capable of.

Yeah but a lot of this is just "maybe" stuff.

Thats the problem with Cyborg Ninjas and I doubt anyone can disagree with me on that one. They always felt too out there even for MGS's standarts. I know, I know, the series had some EXTREMELY out there stuff too but CN never felt like they never went overboard until Rising (MGS4 came dangerously close tho...but it was the finale so maybe it was okay to go all out). CN still were human, they could bleed and die. Their speed just feels cartoonish now whilest before it was FAST but not impossible to see it happening in real life.

It just feels like MGS's future is something out of an over the top cyberpunk with massive nuclear tanks and tiny CNs who can take it out in just a few swings cuz Nano-machines are shamelessly tech-magic at this point.

I really feel like its a sense of flanderization with each entry, feels like everything needed to have more and more. Example, MGS 1 had slightly touches of the supernatural, MGS 2 had a woman actually stopping bullets without her magnetic device (and no, the theory that MGS2 was just a simulation doesnt justify it), MGS 3 had The Sorrow and a borderline river of the dead, MGS 4 had actually very little supernatural in comparison outside of Psycho Mantis deciding to make a cameo (guess its to add to the bleak tone of the game). Same goes for what Nano-machines and CNs, seems like each entry had to have it crazier and crazier to the point it made the series felt less grounded in reality as it on, absolutely climaxing with Rising. Yes, Rising is fun as hell (I personally think its one of Platinum's weakest games but thats a very unpopular opinion) but as a Metal Gear game, it just makes me realize Kojima just stopped caring and decided to go all out on the insanity (as long as it was fun). MGS 5 brought back some level of sanity but not by much with all this talk about parasites and invisibility without a suit and all.

You know, Im almost starting to see why Kojima felt like stopping at 4, he realized the flanderization and he knew it would only get worse with time...

 

[ChucklesTheJester]

Yeah but a lot of this is just "maybe" stuff.

Thats the problem with Cyborg Ninjas and I doubt anyone can disagree with me on that one. They always felt too out there even for MGS's standarts. I know, I know, the series had some EXTREMELY out there stuff too but CN never felt like they never went overboard until Rising (MGS4 came dangerously close tho...but it was the finale so maybe it was okay to go all out). CN still were human, they could bleed and die. Their speed just feels cartoonish now whilest before it was FAST but not impossible to see it happening in real life.

It just feels like MGS's future is something out of an over the top cyberpunk with massive nuclear tanks and tiny CNs who can take it out in just a few swings cuz Nano-machines are shamelessly tech-magic at this point.

I really feel like its a sense of flanderization with each entry, feels like everything needed to have more and more. Example, MGS 1 had slightly touches of the supernatural, MGS 2 had a woman actually stopping bullets without her magnetic device (and no, the theory that MGS2 was just a simulation doesnt justify it), MGS 3 had The Sorrow and a borderline river of the dead, MGS 4 had actually very little supernatural in comparison outside of Psycho Mantis deciding to make a cameo (guess its to add to the bleak tone of the game). Same goes for what Nano-machines and CNs, seems like each entry had to have it crazier and crazier to the point it made the series felt less grounded in reality as it on, absolutely climaxing with Rising. Yes, Rising is fun as hell (I personally think its one of Platinum's weakest games but thats a very unpopular opinion) but as a Metal Gear game, it just makes me realize Kojima just stopped caring and decided to go all out on the insanity (as long as it was fun). MGS 5 brought back some level of sanity but not by much with all this talk about parasites and invisibility without a suit and all.

You know, Im almost starting to see why Kojima felt like stopping at 4, he realized the flanderization and he knew it would only get worse with time...

If they ever do make a 6 I wouldn't be surprise if they up the ante for what nano machines can do. We've seen shit like Vamp, Raiden, and Armstrong. Next Logical step is to have the nano machines do shit like in comic Scooby Doo:Apocalypse. Where it causes everyone in the world turning into monsters. Make snake have to sneak/takeout while sneaking around what seem like normal mercs, but being caught turns them into monster, or robots or something. Weave in some ham fisted plot about how Nano Machines are bad and is dehumaning people both literally and figuretively.

Atleast that how I see it happening if it ever does happen.

 

[The handsome tard]

If they ever do make a 6 I wouldn't be surprise if they up the ante for what nano machines can do. We've seen shit like Vamp, Raiden, and Armstrong. Next Logical step is to have the nano machines do shit like in comic Scooby Doo:Apocalypse. Where it causes everyone in the world turning into monsters. Make snake have to sneak/takeout while sneaking around what seem like normal mercs, but being caught turns them into monster, or robots or something. Weave in some ham fisted plot about how Nano Machines are bad and is dehumaning people both literally and figuretively.

Atleast that how I see it happening if it ever does happen.

Not to sound like Im defending Metal Gear Survive, Im not, its an awful game but aparently the cause of the zombies there was nano-machines (I dont know the specifics tho...) which conceptually is alright if you want to show the dangers of over using nano machines (which, lets face it, the series rarely showed any negative side effects to using them outside of the supressing emotions stuff in MGS 4).

 

[Snekposter]

For MGR, the codec conversations go out of their way to say how rare cyborgs are and how far above the curve people like Raiden and the Winds are. Raiden probably single-handedly cut through a statistically significant number of the world's combat cyborgs, and the fall of World Marshal has probably devastated the supply of combat cyborgs in a similar manner to how the fall of SOP collapsed the utility of nanomachine mercenaries. Any sort of post-MGR world is probably going to look more like Shadowrun with cybernetics being more about utility than sheer performance due to the lack of infrastructure that can maintain those full conversions that suck up electrolytes and repair paste like a 1970's muscle car slurping down gas. Remember, even Raiden needed to head in to Doktor to get regular maintenance done, no different than an automobile needs to head into the shop every now and then. More common but less-powerful integrated cyberware that can run off the human body's natural reserves with limited nanotech self-repair are probably going to be the next big thing.

 

[ChucklesTheJester]

Not to sound like Im defending Metal Gear Survive, Im not, its an awful game but aparently the cause of the zombies there was nano-machines (I dont know the specifics tho...) which conceptually is alright if you want to show the dangers of over using nano machines (which, lets face it, the series rarely showed any negative side effects to using them outside of the supressing emotions stuff in MGS 4).

It wasn't just nano machines but sentience nano machines so it's even more stupid then just normal we have gone too far with nano machines.

 

[Burned Man]

Yeah but a lot of this is just "maybe" stuff.

Thats the problem with Cyborg Ninjas and I doubt anyone can disagree with me on that one. They always felt too out there even for MGS's standarts. I know, I know, the series had some EXTREMELY out there stuff too but CN never felt like they never went overboard until Rising (MGS4 came dangerously close tho...but it was the finale so maybe it was okay to go all out). CN still were human, they could bleed and die. Their speed just feels cartoonish now whilest before it was FAST but not impossible to see it happening in real life.

It just feels like MGS's future is something out of an over the top cyberpunk with massive nuclear tanks and tiny CNs who can take it out in just a few swings cuz Nano-machines are shamelessly tech-magic at this point.

I really feel like its a sense of flanderization with each entry, feels like everything needed to have more and more. Example, MGS 1 had slightly touches of the supernatural, MGS 2 had a woman actually stopping bullets without her magnetic device (and no, the theory that MGS2 was just a simulation doesnt justify it), MGS 3 had The Sorrow and a borderline river of the dead, MGS 4 had actually very little supernatural in comparison outside of Psycho Mantis deciding to make a cameo (guess its to add to the bleak tone of the game). Same goes for what Nano-machines and CNs, seems like each entry had to have it crazier and crazier to the point it made the series felt less grounded in reality as it on, absolutely climaxing with Rising. Yes, Rising is fun as hell (I personally think its one of Platinum's weakest games but thats a very unpopular opinion) but as a Metal Gear game, it just makes me realize Kojima just stopped caring and decided to go all out on the insanity (as long as it was fun). MGS 5 brought back some level of sanity but not by much with all this talk about parasites and invisibility without a suit and all.

You know, Im almost starting to see why Kojima felt like stopping at 4, he realized the flanderization and he knew it would only get worse with time...

I can agree with that. If you need evidence that the series went crazier and crazier as it went just look at the Twin Snakes. Even MGS 2 to a degree Snake fights a giant bipedal tank at the end so lets have Raiden fight an army of them. Snake gets in a hand to hand fight with a guy lets have Raiden have a sword fight with a guy in power armor. Now that I think of it the games are generally grounded for the most part in normal stealth gameplay but then forced action scenes happen and all hell breaks loose with ninjas, zombies, ghosts, robots, super soldiers, and crazy weapons showing up. I think it follows that a game entirely of action would follow this formula and be wall to wall nuts.

All I think you need to do to have a post cyborg world is just reduce the quantity of crazy that Rising brought in and deal a bit more with exploring the growing role of cyborgnetics and nano machines on the battlefield from the perspective of a normal soldier. There are some good codec conversations where they talk about how lots of cyborgs were just wounded veterans or bought the cyborgnetics in order to stay employeed with certain PMCs and the companies forcing the soldiers into indentured servitude to pay off their new bodies and limbs. You could also have soldiers experiencing complications from the shut down of the SOP system with their nanomachins still in them. I think you could even poke fun at Rising with some soldiers talking about the events of the game. One soldier talking about the crazy shit Raiden does with he other soldier refusing to believe him and calling him nuts. It could even be a codec call.

Either way I don't think we will be getting a sequel to Metal Gear Solid that either isn't a remake of Metal Gear or another sequel to Big Boss's adventures that doesn't really add anything to his character and ends with a teaser to Outer Heaven again. Maybe we could get some sort of pre Foxhound Solid Snake or something.

 

[The handsome tard]

I can agree with that. If you need evidence that the series went crazier and crazier as it went just look at the Twin Snakes. Even MGS 2 to a degree Snake fights a giant bipedal tank at the end so lets have Raiden fight an army of them. Snake gets in a hand to hand fight with a guy lets have Raiden have a sword fight with a guy in power armor. Now that I think of it the games are generally grounded for the most part in normal stealth gameplay but then forced action scenes happen and all hell breaks loose with ninjas, zombies, ghosts, robots, super soldiers, and crazy weapons showing up. I think it follows that a game entirely of action would follow this formula and be wall to wall nuts.

All I think you need to do to have a post cyborg world is just reduce the quantity of crazy that Rising brought in and deal a bit more with exploring the growing role of cyborgnetics and nano machines on the battlefield from the perspective of a normal soldier. There are some good codec conversations where they talk about how lots of cyborgs were just wounded veterans or bought the cyborgnetics in order to stay employeed with certain PMCs and the companies forcing the soldiers into indentured servitude to pay off their new bodies and limbs. You could also have soldiers experiencing complications from the shut down of the SOP system with their nanomachins still in them. I think you could even poke fun at Rising with some soldiers talking about the events of the game. One soldier talking about the crazy shit Raiden does with he other soldier refusing to believe him and calling him nuts. It could even be a codec call.

Either way I don't think we will be getting a sequel to Metal Gear Solid that either isn't a remake of Metal Gear or another sequel to Big Boss's adventures that doesn't really add anything to his character and ends with a teaser to Outer Heaven again. Maybe we could get some sort of pre Foxhound Solid Snake or something.

Im almost glad we dont seem to be getting any sequels, especially one set post Rising because I just honestly dont think we can just go back to good old stealth action after Rising, I just dont think the universe can recover despite all your suggestion so maybe it was better off it being the final in the timeline (especially since Snake isnt around as clearly this isnt a world he would adapt well in).


I only truly want a remake of MG 1 and 2 so we can properly cap off the timeline. Replay Snake's first adventures now with the full context of the entire saga. Maybe give Big Boss a better death than getting burned by a deodorant/lighter (maybe an explosion or something) and have him reveal he is Snake's daddy at some point.

 

[Duncan Hills Coffee]

Im almost glad we dont seem to be getting any sequels, especially one set post Rising because I just honestly dont think we can just go back to good old stealth action after Rising, I just dont think the universe can recover despite all your suggestion so maybe it was better off it being the final in the timeline (especially since Snake isnt around as clearly this isnt a world he would adapt well in).

I do want a Rising 2 because Rising ended with Raiden in a very uncomfortable state emotionally and I want to see a sequel that builds on that. That and a sequel could refine the combat mechanics into something truly great.

 

[The handsome tard]

I do want a Rising 2 because Rising ended with Raiden in a very uncomfortable state emotionally and I want to see a sequel that builds on that. That and a sequel could refine the combat mechanics into something truly great.

We can only get a sequel with Rising's gameplay, that is. And sadly, thats what happens when you kind of stop at a cliffhanger with no sequel guaranteed.