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As much as I think MGS2 is the best of the series, it's got it's own glaring plotholes that were never resolved if Kojimbo just couldn't blanket it in nanomachines in MGS4.
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Dr J
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MGS2 is definitely highly underrated and ahead of its time (seriously, it's got AI AND VR) but I dunno if I'd say it was the best.
Such as? Other than Snake looking like the President?
UnknownUser
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Making Solidus President of the United States actually seems like a pretty good idea. He had Big Bosses charisma and was groomed his whole life to be a leader of men. Also presidents famously seem to age rapidly so the whole short life spawn thing would fit in as well.
As far as no one pointing out that Solid Snake looked like the current president of the United States during the Shadow Moses incident... that's probaly just Kojima not thinking about it, though I'm sure with some fan creativity someone could play spin doctor and make it work.
As far as no one pointing out that Solid Snake looked like the current president of the United States during the Shadow Moses incident... that's probaly just Kojima not thinking about it, though I'm sure with some fan creativity someone could play spin doctor and make it work.
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Unless I'm forgetting lore, the whole thing with Fortune being able to deflect bullets. Ocelot says "you have nothing we didn't give you" but then she magically gets it back? Even Ocelot is surprised.
What even was the Ray battle arena? I know the game is weird, but even this is really out there.
Using Liquid's body in the tanker sinking to fake Snake's death, when only the Patriots would have that thing on ice. Snake in their eyes is supposed to be dead, but then Liquid's body goes missing and they buy that as Snake's body.
Liquid "choosing" Ocelot as his host. I know Ocelot is latently psychic, but this line of dialogue is really retarded and doesn't make any sense.
How the fuck the Patriot proxies even get orders from an AI is never touched on in either MGS2 or 4. This information is being funneled from somewhere and we're supposed to just swallow that shit.
Dr J
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Yeah, he could lead men. But he was genetically engineered to be a soldier. Solidus becoming the President really just seems like Peter Principle at work (and indeed, he was incompetent at his job because he had to resign in disgrace)
UnknownUser
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Big Boss was equally famous for his leadership skills, so your 30 something year old super solider who spent his youth doing merc shit in Africa living out his final years as a politician makes sense to me. His resigning in disgrace seemed to be born from him fighting the Patriots and not following the script anymore.
Man this while thing makes me wish we had more Solidus in the later games, would have loved to fight him in his prime as a villain in some prequel spin off title.
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Snake is a legend among boorish military types, but how many people had met him face-to-face at the start of Shadow Moses? The only people who would recognize him are his old FOXHOUND crew, and most of them are dead (including Miller). Meryl might have noticed, but they were in the middle of a mission and too busy fighting for their lives. Campbell might have noticed, but he wasn't in a position to do anything about it either.
Besides, going by the illustration we see during Raiden's face-to-face with the President, Solidus looked very plain as George Sears:
Gray hair, middle-aged. There's probably a million men in the US who look at least a little bit like this, and Snake looked younger, had brown hair and was wearing a bandana. I'm not surprised Meryl didn't notice.
For all we know, Otacon probably did bring it up during their down time in Philanthropy.
O: Hey, you look just like the last President. You ever notice that?
S: *grumbles*
And that was probably the end of it. Who else would have noticed between Solidus' presidency and his death in the Big Shell Incident?
Visa Credit
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I'm not sure how Patriot proxies receive orders from an AI, but we do learn how Cipher funnels information through it's proxies in MGSV by utilizing shell companies like SANR (Episode 13: Pitch Dark) who then hire and sometimes supply PF's in the region (Episode 15: Footprints of Phantoms). If we fulton some of these people doing Cipher's work out in the field, we find out that they don't even know who are paying them and their orders are also issued through another layer of proxy (Episode 19: On the Trail & Episode 21: The War Economy).
Most of this is discovered from the post-mission briefings that Kaz conducts, with more details being revealed if you fulton people of interest.
Dr J
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I never considered that, that most people wouldn't have known what Solid Snake looked like. Explains why, when 'Pliskin' took off his mask in MGS2, Raiden didn't immediately say 'Holy shit, you're Solid Snake'
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That was a plot point? I must have glossed over that.
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Otacon tells Raiden it. Why couldn't it be they just didn't find his body? Kojima is such a nincompoop.
verissimus
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Don't you mean no one pointing out that Solidus looked like Big Boss, someone that you would think a number of people would have known? Certainly more people had to have known who Big Boss was compared to Solid Snake. Snake only became a legend specifically because he took down Big Boss.
UnknownUser
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I think, he thought he needed to foreshadow or explain Liquids missing arm with a few different sources. The whole arm taking over a dudes mind is the real hard sell not who had the rest of the body when and where.
Kojima probaly had to be tard wrangled on his plot in so many other areas that some of this stupid shit seems to have fell in between the cracks.
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I always assume it was a "and the body was never recovered, Snake is dead" scenario. Do you have any video from the game where they talk about using liquids corpse?
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Nintendo had an entire VR console before MGS2..... but it was the virtual boy....
FIFY.
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Only Sons of Liberty does, and then he reuses this plot mechanism again in MGS4 with Solidus's corpse pretending to be Big Boss's.
I just remembered they used body parts of Liquid and Solidus to put Big Boss back together again. God, fuck Kojima. For a game series that was taken so seriously (most of the time) there's some really dumb fucking ways it gets manipulated for plot convience.
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Maniacal Foreigner
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Didn't MGS4 retcon it so that the "possession" was never real, and Ocelot just hypnotized himself into believing it for the sake of his plan?
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Yeah and that's even dumber. Him being possessed fits with the lore since his dad was psychic. Making it kayfabe still irritates me.
MGS4 would work so much better if it was actually Liquid.
Dr J
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MGS4 didn't retcon it. Ocelot got rid of Liquid's arm sometime between MGS2 and MGS4 because it was throwing off his psyche. So, when you see Ocelot in MGS4 he has an artificial arm.
And now they've literally brought it back so people can have the three good games that were on it....
Could've been a fun plot for Metal Gear Rising 2 where someone finds Liquids arm in a freezer somewhere, plugs it into a cyborg body, and Raiden has to deal with Ghost-Cyborg Liquid.