Metal Gear

[Friendly Primarina]

and once again by MG Raiden, Snake is barely mentioned, all that effort, all that talk of legacy, and poof, gone.

When you put it that way it seems like the same thing is going to happen to Raiden. I need to play it again to remind myself, but IIRC everyone knows "Jack the Ripper" in that game. Granted, they all work for the same PMC but still. It makes me wonder if there's potential for a sequel set in 2032 or whenever that has Jar Jar George as the protagonist and Raiden as the grizzled veteran, making another iteration of the cycle.

 

[Dr J]

Hell, she might have been illegal (supplementary material puts her birthday in 1987).

Which, in 2005, would have made her 18. Also, she's a soldier. You can't join the military until you're 18.

Yeah, but then giving Naomi an American accent doesn't make sense because she, logically speaking, wasn't born in America and based on everything we know was raised in and around Africa, where any English she would have learned probably would have been with people speaking with an English Accent.

She wasn't raised in Africa. Grey Fox found her in Rhodesia/Zimbabwe and took her back to America (after having killed her parents). It's perfectly logical that, by the time she was an adult, she would have lost her accent.

My problem with the change is that Jennifer Hale was a lot more expressive as a Brit. Her acting in Twin Snakes is ironically the worst of the lot. Just so flat.

Edit: I'm forgetting they got rid of Nastashas accent too, which really doesn't make sense since she was born and raised in Ukraine until the age of like 16.

They didn't remove Nastasha's accent, they just toned it down. Which, again, would make sense. If she's been in America for a long time and around Americans, especially from a relatively young age, her accent would have softened.

The problem is, again, the performances in Twin Snakes were shit compared to the originals. Also there's no Japanese voice track

 

[Friendly Primarina]

Which, in 2005, would have made her 18. Also, she's a soldier. You can't join the military until you're 18.

The point was that Snake comes off as a raging hypocrite, since he is into women significantly younger than he is. The exact ages ware tangential to the point. I admit I probably read too much into it, though.

Then again, I forgot about OMGHOTNESSIWANNABANGYOU

Direct link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nvkPOgcM3s&t=55)

 

[Dr J]

The point was that Snake comes off as a raging hypocrite, since he is into women significantly younger than he is.

Snake, at that point, would have been 33. I wouldn't say an 18/19 year old girl was significantly younger than he was. Campbell, on the other hand, was depicted as being in his 70s by the time of MGS4 and he's married to a 27 year old woman. She is significantly younger than him

 

[Friendly Primarina]

Snake, at that point, would have been 33. I wouldn't say an 18/19 year old girl was significantly younger than he was. Campbell, on the other hand, was depicted as being in his 70s by the time of MGS4 and he's married to a 27 year old woman. She is significantly younger than him

If it's okay for a thirty-something to make passes at teenagers it should be okay for a 70+ year old to get with a 27 year old. Snake was throwing stones in his glass house. That was my point. We should agree to disagree here. I don't wanna argue about this.

 

[Dr J]

I don't wanna argue about this.

Well good, because you're arguing apples with oranges. 33 is a lot closer to 18/19 than 70+ is to 27. And it's not like Snake also had an 18/19 year old daughter at the time

 

[Problematic User Forever]

Which, in 2005, would have made her 18. Also, she's a soldier. You can't join the military until you're 18.

There're waivers to get you in at 17, but even with that Meryls age doesn't make any fucking sense.

She's supposed to be part of the reserve/replacement unit for the Next Generation Special Forces, but it's hard to believe that a fresh out of high school 18 year old girl would be part of that unit.

Her age honestly should have been retconned at some point, it'd make more sense if she was even 20 or 21. But I guess special forces people being super young is a trope in Japan. I think Jill Valentine from Resident Evil was supposed to be a Delta Force veteran by the age of like 24 which also didn't make any sense.

Actually, now that I think about it, I think a lot of the backstory behind the Genome Soldiers didn't make any sense. They were also supposed to all have IQ levels of like 180.

 

[Dr J]

She's supposed to be part of the reserve/replacement unit for the Next Generation Special Forces, but it's hard to believe that a fresh out of high school 18 year old girl would be part of that unit.

Makes perfect sense when your Uncle/Secret Father is a Colonel

But I guess special forces people being super young is a trope in Japan. I think Jill Valentine from Resident Evil was supposed to be a Delta Force veteran by the age of like 24 which also didn't make any sense.

The Japanese are obsessed with youth. A lot of characters in anime are way younger than they really should be for their level of experience and maturity

Actually, now that I think about it, I think a lot of the backstory behind the Genome Soldiers didn't make any sense. They were also supposed to all have IQ levels of like 180.

Yeah but Liquid said they're all total fuck-ups. They basically didn't handle being injected with Big Boss DNA very well

 

[Problematic User Forever]

Makes perfect sense when your Uncle/Secret Father is a Colonel

No, it really doesn't.

Also, Campbell was retired at that point.

Like I get MGS is supposed to be like an anime but I'll still call stupid shit stupid.

 

[Dr J]

No, it really doesn't.

It's literally stated that she was assigned to Shadow Moses by the Pentagon, in anticipation that Liquid's FOXHOUND unit would go rogue, to manipulate Campbell into participating in the mission

Also, Campbell was retired at that point.

He still had pull. In MGS4 Campbell says he used his influence to make sure Meryl didn't get put out to pasture like Mei-Ling, Nastasha and everybody else who participated in the Shadow Moses incident.

 

[Zenos Yae Viator]

Well good, because you're arguing apples with oranges. 33 is a lot closer to 18/19 than 70+ is to 27. And it's not like Snake also had an 18/19 year old daughter at the time

Meryl is actually OLDER than Rose, lol, it makes it even funnier.
not that they were banging anyways, though they COULD have told fuckin Raiden about this stupid plan.

Nastasha and everybody else who participated in the Shadow Moses incident.

well to be fair on Natasha, she literally wrote a fucking tell all book about the incident, she's lucky as hell she didn't have attempts on her life daily from the Patriots sending forces to do her in.

 

[Aunt Carol]

Big Boss fall to this as well, sure he's not outright replaced by Solid Snake, but he's his killer, and people talk about him similarly, and by MGS Big Boss is just some great dead man, we think he's in higher esteem because all the people who do rate him so high are in the cast of villains and some hero's, to everyone else he's already being forgotten minute by minute.
and once again by MG Raiden, Snake is barely mentioned, all that effort, all that talk of legacy, and poof, gone.

Big Boss ran two PMCs, a Special Forces unit, and his own country. He did a lot more organizing and orating, or at least being a well-known figurehead... and then Zero (et al) took the existing footage, photos, quotes and testimonies and built it up even more into a legacy that fit that "great man" mold.

Solid Snake was an operator, and a ...pretty good one. People in the industry recognized his reputation, but there wasn't any comparable footage of Solid Snake giving an inspirational speech to a whole auditorium of dudes he'd blood-choked until they loved him.

When people compared Naked Snake to Solid Snake, they were people close enough to the situation to even be aware of Solid Snake, so they talking about Big Boss' previous time in the field, not Big Boss' second career as a leader of men.

They basically didn't handle being injected with Big Boss DNA very well

just like one of my old man yaois

But yeah, my understanding was that the Genome Soldiers were kind of messed-up by this point, due to "lol let's go for it" science where "soldier genes" are even considered to exist. And as a parallel to Solid Snake getting FOXDIEd, maybe.

 

[Zenos Yae Viator]

Solid Snake was an operator, and a ...pretty good one. People in the industry recognized his reputation, but there wasn't any comparable footage of Solid Snake giving an inspirational speech to a whole auditorium of dudes he'd blood-choked until they loved him.

When people compared Naked Snake to Solid Snake, they were people close enough to the situation to even be aware of Solid Snake, so they talking about Big Boss' previous time in the field, not Big Boss' second career as a leader of men.

This really highlights just how flawed the Cloning angle was from Zero, neither Liquid or Solid were anything like Big Boss, even Solidus wasn't close at all, all he cared about was Revenge against the Patriots for making him infertile and age fast, and for taking over America.
Liquid was just a rabid animal, in his youth he was deadset on killing John, and in his adulthood he adored him, and was then deadset on just being a violent nuisance to everyone he could think of.
meanwhile, David had zero of Big Bosses trait of wanting to lead men, and was a complete loner.

 

[Dr J]

well to be fair on Natasha, she literally wrote a fucking tell all book about the incident, she's lucky as hell she didn't have attempts on her life daily from the Patriots sending forces to do her in.

Well, we don't see Nastasha in MGS4 so, for all we know, that could be what was happening.

 

[TheArtilleryman]

This really highlights just how flawed the Cloning angle was from Zero, neither Liquid or Solid were anything like Big Boss, even Solidus wasn't close at all, all he cared about was Revenge against the Patriots for making him infertile and age fast, and for taking over America.
Liquid was just a rabid animal, in his youth he was deadset on killing John, and in his adulthood he adored him, and was then deadset on just being a violent nuisance to everyone he could think of.
meanwhile, David had zero of Big Bosses trait of wanting to lead men, and was a complete loner.

He forgot to consider the memes.

 

[Problematic User Forever]

But yeah, my understanding was that the Genome Soldiers were kind of messed-up by this point, due to "lol let's go for it" science where "soldier genes" are even considered to exist. And as a parallel to Solid Snake getting FOXDIEd, maybe.

I meant more the idea that there was a whole ARMY of dudes with 180+ IQ's in itself is what I thought didn't make any sense. Not that they just acted dumb in game.

It's another one of those dumb things that Kojima added to justify one line where someone said they tried doing their own gene therapy I think. Either that, or it was just another thing he had to add to the pile like half of them being former Outer Heaven mercs and stuff.

 

[Dr J]

This really highlights just how flawed the Cloning angle was from Zero, neither Liquid or Solid were anything like Big Boss

Which was the point. Neither were exactly genetically similar to Big Boss, or to each other. That's why FoxDie killed Liquid but not Solid

even Solidus wasn't close at all

Solidus was a perfect Big Boss clone. To the point that even The Patriots couldn't tell the difference

Liquid was just a rabid animal, in his youth he was deadset on killing John, and in his adulthood he adored him, and was then deadset on just being a violent nuisance to everyone he could think of.

Liquid never adored Big Boss. He resented him because Liquid felt he was the inferior one and Big Boss was responsible. His arc in MGSV is a mirror of his arc in MGS1

meanwhile, David had zero of Big Bosses trait of wanting to lead men, and was a complete loner.

The Big Boss clones weren't cloned for leading men. They were cloned because Big Boss was thought to be the perfect soldier and, in that sense, they were all a success

 

[Zenos Yae Viator]

Well, we don't see Nastasha in MGS4 so, for all we know, that could be what was happening.

no, Solid and Otacon's entire operation from MGS1 to 4 is funded by her, from her Book proceeds, she's mentioned as giving intel as late as the Return to Shadowmoses bit in MGS4.
somehow they just let her skate, and mind you, she knows about the Patriots before Snake or Otacon and is the ENTIRE reason they are on their radar at all!
though she doesn't know they are A.I.'s as that info isn't found out till after MGS2.

 

[TheArtilleryman]

I meant more the idea that there was a whole ARMY of dudes with 180+ IQ's in itself is what I thought didn't make any sense. Not that they just acted dumb in game.

It's another one of those dumb things that Kojima added to justify one line where someone said they tried doing their own gene therapy I think.

You'd think that if you were manufacturing an army of soldiers, you'd want them to be of average or somewhat lower intelligence. You don't want them questioning their mission and getting all philosophical about shit, just operate gun properly and clean your kit.

 

[Dr J]

no, Solid and Otacon's entire operation from MGS1 to 4 is funded by her, from her Book proceeds, she's mentioned as giving intel as late as the Return to Shadowmoses bit in MGS4.

Philanthropy is funded by the Patriots