Metal Gear

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He actually doesn't find this out in Metal Gear 2. It was a retcon in Metal Gear Solid.

You really didn't need to play the first two games at all. I'd actually say it's better that someone doesn't as they don't gel well with the Solid series at all.
Oh, I see! I've never played 2, so it makes sense that this detail would be retconned to introduce the traumatised Solid Snake we follow in Solid.

Yeah, the game's main themes are genetic coding and moreso, trauma. Solid himself mainly serves as a traumatised deconstruction of the stereotypical action hero who only feels alive when facing death, most of the bosses are themed around some sort of trauma, and the themes of genes and trauma interweave and interlope in the game's villain, Liquid Snake. It was very clearly intended as an anti-war sci-fi piece like other pieces of asian-made media (I.E. the main Mobile Suit Gundam franchise, which had finished its trinity of standalone shows in the 90s at the time), but a number of gamers didn't get the point that Metal Gear Solid was trying to make and viewed it as a power fantasy wish fulfilment story where the hero beats evil and gets the girl, thus leading Kojima to create Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty and deconstruct that notion (this time in a blunt manner).

God bless Hideo Kojima. Like, when was the last time you made a sequel to a popular property you made just to show a certain misaimed fandom how wrong they were? Solid 2 is also even better than Solid 1.
 
Not only that but Kojima pillaged quite a lot of moments from MG2 for MGS1, a shame he didn't take the boss fight where you have to fire nikita rockets into the back of a scientist that has Snake in a choke hold.
This is what surprised me when I played MG2 was how much Kojima cribbed from it for MGS1, even down to getting ambushed while riding an elevator and having to use hot and cold to change the shape of an object.

It makes sense why, MG2 was a very good game very few people played, so why not rework it when making something more people will actually play? Ken Levine later did something similar with Bioshock and System Shock 2.

But you can see where Kojima got the idea for MGS2 by asking the question "if MGS1 echoed a lot of the events in MG2, what if they happened again not by coincidence but by design?"

He actually doesn't find this out in Metal Gear 2. It was a retcon in Metal Gear Solid.

You really didn't need to play the first two games at all. I'd actually say it's better that someone doesn't as they don't gel well with the Solid series at all.
One should play MG2 though because it's a very good game, it's MG1 that's skippable.

But it is odd that the "Snake, I am your father!" moment never actually happens, that's a pretty big retcon for Kojima to throw in, but again, considering very few people would have played MG2 circa 1998, I guess he felt like it didn't matter.
 
I'll admit, as much as everyone loves MGS3, I still think MGS2 is my all time favorite in the series. Even as a kid, I liked Part 2 the most though the first and third games are also awesome.

Never played anything from 4 onward.
 
One should play MG2 though because it's a very good game
I meant purely from a storyline perspective. Most of the stuff that actually happens in MG2 is just never mentioned again in the story. Holly is never brought up. OILIX is never mentioned again, which is weird when you factor in how much they talk about the oil economy being the precursor to the war economy in MGS4. Dr. Madnar is brought up in codec and only in relation to Raiden and his cyborg body, never mentioned when it comes to development of Metal Gear. That's not even getting into how he would have survived Metal Gear 2 and lived to Metal Gear Solid 4.

There is also the fact that Snake claims he met Gray Fox during MG1, and that he "showed him the ropes" but in the actual game you just untie him from the chair and move on.

It just doesn't gel well with the lore of series as a whole IMO. I think Kojima even made some vague mention about how he didn't want to remake MG1 and MG2 because they would require an entire rewrite to work with the MGS series.

I don't think it's odd at all that Kojima threw the retcon into MGS that Big Boss was his father. MGS as a whole feels like it was meant to be a soft reboot and it was't like people fanatically followed him or his games at the time.
 
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bosses are themed around some sort of trauma
Are the MGS1 bosses themed around trauma, isn't that the third game? I thought they all had animal codenames because they were themed around genes and genetic fate? Speaking of the third game, I have never really understood the theme of scene, is the setting anymore important in that game than the first two solids even if it is set in the past?
This is what surprised me when I played MG2 was how much Kojima cribbed from it for MGS1, even down to getting ambushed while riding an elevator and having to use hot and cold to change the shape of an object.

It makes sense why, MG2 was a very good game very few people played, so why not rework it when making something more people will actually play? Ken Levine later did something similar with Bioshock and System Shock 2.

But you can see where Kojima got the idea for MGS2 by asking the question "if MGS1 echoed a lot of the events in MG2, what if they happened again not by coincidence but by design?"


One should play MG2 though because it's a very good game, it's MG1 that's skippable.

But it is odd that the "Snake, I am your father!" moment never actually happens, that's a pretty big retcon for Kojima to throw in, but again, considering very few people would have played MG2 circa 1998, I guess he felt like it didn't matter.
I think it's worth playing as well, I emulated it sometime after I had played MGS1 and it was very interesting seeing where so many of the design principals were figured out. If they had decided to do a direct 3d remake instead I have no idea how they would have fit all the crazy shit like the marathon man and the owl puzzle in and still tried to tell a serious story (maybe it would work in Twin Snakes).
 
God bless Hideo Kojima. Like, when was the last time you made a sequel to a popular property you made just to show a certain misaimed fandom how wrong they were? Solid 2 is also even better than Solid 1.
There were quite a few revivals of old games made by Japanese publishers/developers for the PS1. Often they couldn't compete with new properties and few even remember them now. MGS really stands out as a success, probably because the original games were ahead of their time(just look at all the concept that they straight up reused) so they had a solid foundation to transition to 3D.
 
Hi. Me again. You just knew that I was going to play Metal Gear Solid 2 again. And something jumped out at me on this playthrough: How the Tanker Chapter was the perfect opening hours!

I mean think about it: although the segment lasts 2 hours, they accomplish so much: Solid Snake is given very important stuff to do in this; the only time where you play as him in the main story, they set up key plot points like character motivations and Liquid Ocelot, it's the first time the Patriots are mentioned by name after being hinted at last time, and moreso, we're given the best example of Metal Gear's gameplay style by giving you a small area to play around in, sneak, evade and deal with enemies in a manner you see fit before jumping into Raiden's shoes for the Plant Chapter which forms the bulk of the game. It helps that Solid 2's gameplay formula is the best in the series IMO, so right off the bat, you experience some of, if not THE most refined stealth gameplay in the entire genre.

Oh, sorry for sperging out. I just really love Solid 2.

Oh, and I just realised something: I began this playthrough of Solid 2 during the 13th anniversary of the Big Shell Incident. Weird, huh? In fact, a Youtuber named funnywes actually commemorated the occasion with what appeared to be a traditional Metal Gear Rising Shitpost (something he usually does), but then turned into a reiterance of Solid 2's main message.
Well, happy MGS2 day everyone! I'll definitely continue my playthrough, and I didn't realise I was celebrating this occasion until tonight.
 
I meant purely from a storyline perspective. Most of the stuff that actually happens in MG2 is just never mentioned again in the story. Holly is never brought up. OILIX is never mentioned again, which is weird when you factor in how much they talk about the oil economy being the precursor to the war economy in MGS4. Dr. Madnar is brought up in codec and only in relation to Raiden and his cyborg body, never mentioned when it comes to development of Metal Gear. That's not even getting into how he would have survived Metal Gear 2 and lived to Metal Gear Solid 4.

There is also the fact that Snake claims he met Gray Fox during MG1, and that he "showed him the ropes" but in the actual game you just untie him from the chair and move on.

It just doesn't gel well with the lore of series as a whole IMO. I think Kojima even made some vague mention about how he didn't want to remake MG1 and MG2 because they would require an entire rewrite to work with the MGS series.

I don't think it's odd at all that Kojima threw the retcon into MGS that Big Boss was his father. MGS as a whole feels like it was meant to be a soft reboot and it was't like people fanatically followed him or his games at the time.
A theory I've heard with regards to Madnar is that it's referring to his child and not him himself, it's possible Kojima was mulling over a Raiden spinoff even at the time of 4's development and that was a character who was meant to make an actual appearance, who knows.

You definitely have to take the MSX games with a grain of salt as the later games do imply a lot of stuff that never actually happen in them, but I think that's what gave MGS1 part of it's mystique was it was obviously taking place in a world with a lot of history and backstory, that gave it a more epic feel than if it was just the first story in a series, I've noticed a lot of Japanese media takes that approach where there's a lot of implied lore and backstory you aren't really privy to, this creates a mysterious, intriguing effect that captures people's imaginations.

One really weird way of looking at it is doesn't Venom Snake pop in a copy of Metal Gear at the end of V? Maybe MG1 and 2 are not the literal version of the events but games he programed in his spare time?
 
I like Sons of Liberty but I feel like I've been hit with a Mandela Effect with everyone now kissing it's ass for being a huge bait and switch that lazily remade the previous game and made you play as a fuckboi twink, when back in the day everyone recognized it for what it was. Also, Otacon's dad killing himself because his son cucked him is hilariously retarded.

Jack!

YOU DIDN'T HAVE ANY FURNITURE!!!!!!
 
Hi. Me again. You just knew that I was going to play Metal Gear Solid 2 again. And something jumped out at me on this playthrough: How the Tanker Chapter was the perfect opening hours!

I mean think about it: although the segment lasts 2 hours, they accomplish so much: Solid Snake is given very important stuff to do in this; the only time where you play as him in the main story, they set up key plot points like character motivations and Liquid Ocelot, it's the first time the Patriots are mentioned by name after being hinted at last time, and moreso, we're given the best example of Metal Gear's gameplay style by giving you a small area to play around in, sneak, evade and deal with enemies in a manner you see fit before jumping into Raiden's shoes for the Plant Chapter which forms the bulk of the game. It helps that Solid 2's gameplay formula is the best in the series IMO, so right off the bat, you experience some of, if not THE most refined stealth gameplay in the entire genre.

Oh, sorry for sperging out. I just really love Solid 2.
Like I said, I could go on for hours about how expertly designed and thematically rich MGS2 is.

Heck, the fact that it recycled many elements of the first game was entirely part of the point, as it was commentating on sequels in general, and how the consumers react to this sort of stuff. Nearly every single part of the game connects to something either from a narrative, symbolic, or gameplay perspective, with pretty much no fat. And it still remains fun to play, rather than sacrificing the gameplay for the sake of "making a point".

Honestly, Kojima pretty much peaked with MGS2, even though the other titles afterwards are also great.
 
I like Sons of Liberty but I feel like I've been hit with a Mandela Effect with everyone now kissing it's ass for being a huge bait and switch that lazily remade the previous game and made you play as a fuckboi twink, when back in the day everyone recognized it for what it was. Also, Otacon's dad killing himself because his son cucked him is hilariously retarded.

Jack!

YOU DIDN'T HAVE ANY FURNITURE!!!!!!
I think that's a big exaggeration. It's heavily tied to MGS1 in many ways, but the game isn't much like it. Yeah, the general idea is the same (intentionally), but in action it feels and plays much differently.

I never understood the hate for Raiden though. Yeah, Snake is cooler, but so what? Raiden was fine as a character.
 
Yeah, Snake is cooler, but so what? Raiden was fine as a character.
You have to take into account that the marketing didn't show Raiden at all. It was a bait and switch that pissed a lot of people off at a time when MGS was very much a "new" franchise in the west. People actually theorized at the time that Big Boss would make some sort of flashback appearance based on the line "This is my son...I taught him everything." that appeared in the trailer.

Even the credit cinematic at the start of the original MGS2 didn't show Raiden until the very end of it, to the point that you could have just assumed he was a support character on your very first playthrough.

And of course, a lot of people don't realize just how different the MGS fanbase was in the beginning. It had a lot of more of your typical shooter/action game fans than the current majority of weaboos. There was actually a major portion of the "original" fanbase that never returned after MGS2.
 
I like Sons of Liberty but I feel like I've been hit with a Mandela Effect with everyone now kissing it's ass for being a huge bait and switch that lazily remade the previous game and made you play as a fuckboi twink, when back in the day everyone recognized it for what it was. Also, Otacon's dad killing himself because his son cucked him is hilariously retarded.

Jack!

YOU DIDN'T HAVE ANY FURNITURE!!!!!!
I loved it from when I first played it in 2001, it got good reviews by a lot of outlets.

It was controversial, but it's not like it didn't also have it's fans.

It just took a long time for most everyone to come around to it and a big part of that is how downright spookily prophetic it is in light of today's world.

I think that's a big exaggeration. It's heavily tied to MGS1 in many ways, but the game isn't much like it. Yeah, the general idea is the same (intentionally), but in action it feels and plays much differently.
That is the irony is how different it is despite the plotline of a "recreation of Shadow Moses"

There's a few reused beats but it doesn't follow MGS1 as closely as MGS1 followed MG2.

I think it's mainly the broad strokes of "infiltrating a base full of bad guys with a Metal Gear and taking on a series of bosses with specialized skills" that, since this was the 4th time a game was using that set up, made Kojima decide to get meta with it.

I never understood the hate for Raiden though. Yeah, Snake is cooler, but so what? Raiden was fine as a character.
OPM said it best by comparing Raiden to Luke Skywalker and Snake to Han Solo.

I don't know how someone couldn't feel for Raiden after his dark backstory is revealed, that shit freaked me out good as a kid.

You have to take into account that the marketing didn't show Raiden at all. It was a bait and switch that pissed a lot of people off at a time when MGS was very much a "new" franchise in the west. People actually theorized at the time that Big Boss would make some sort of flashback appearance based on the line "This is my son...I taught him everything." that appeared in the trailer.

Even the credit cinematic at the start of the original MGS2 didn't show Raiden until the very end of it, to the point that you could have just assumed he was a support character on your very first playthrough.

And of course, a lot of people don't realize just how different the MGS fanbase was in the beginning. It had a lot of more of your typical shooter/action game fans than the current majority of weaboos. There was actually a major portion of the "original" fanbase that never returned after MGS2.
There weren't many military games at the time of MGS1, I can imagine the kind of gamer for whom later became Call of Duty's audience are probably among the "original" fans that never returned, as well as in Japan certain "military otaku" types.

What's sad is Kojima still tried to please those people as far back as 3, too much so in my opinion, especially with 4, which was him saying "fuck it" and just giving what the naysayers of 2 wanted.

Many accuse Kojima of pretentiousness but he listens too much to his haters imo, like Death Stranding being chock full of gameplay, to the point where it ruins the cinematic pacing that used to be the appeal of his games in the first place, I don't want long hours of trudging over mountains and hills, I want the tight pacing of MGS1 that you can experience over and over again like one would.... watch a movie.

Although don't get me wrong, as much as I love the metaness and "mess with your head" factor of MGS2, there is a special magic to MGS1 that you wonder what it might have been like had the series continued in that vein instead of going meta.

But that's part of the brilliance of MGS2, instead of just trying to capture lightning in a bottle twice, he did something very different which makes 2 just as brilliant in it's own way, MGS3, 4 and 5 were arguably all attempts at going back to the MGS1 well, with diminishing returns each time.
 
I love all the wacked-out things Kojima wanted to do, until he was hamstrung by the technology of his time/distracted by someone on the dev team jingling their keys.

The unlockable Mantis Mask for MGS2 so you can read NPCs' minds and figure out the multiple levels of conspiracy--that would be amazing in any MGS game, even if trying to read Ocelot's mind would probably have an Easter egg that makes your console reboot.

Then, for the very same game, he also really wanted real-time stubble growth and a tactical penguin kigurumi.

It makes you want the David Lynch thing to happen, where a bunch of French people give him a shit-ton of money and say "make whatever," and it either turns out a masterpiece or a nine-hour cutscene of mocapped taut man-ass with political analysis and mommy issues.
 
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