Mega Rad Gun Thread

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I'm not big on guns. Not because I don't like or dislike them, I'm fairly neutral. It's just I haven't had all that much exposure to them in my part of the world. That said, I've been watching Forgotten Weapons, a pretty fascinating channel, if I may say so, myself.

Right now, I'm watching a video on a Vietnamese copy of another gun, that doesn't appear to be all that well made. It's still quite interesting to me, though.

Ian inspecting homemade African poaching rifles is my favorite video of his
fallout tier civilization.
 
This morning was my last opportunity to go plinking out in the sticks before the summer heat turns the whole countryside into a blasted 40C/100F wasteland dotted with torrential flash flood zones.

I was trying out some of PPU's modern 175 grain 7mm Mauser ammunition that has unfortunately developed some nasty looking verdigris coating on the brass and jacket since the last time I cleaned it. I was always worried about the verdigris before since I had read that in the Indian Wars, the verdigris would fuse hot brass cases into the chambers of the early trapdoor Springfield carbines since they had weak extractors, but this time I threw caution to the wind and just hoped that verdigris would have minimal effect on a more robust extractor like the one in my Mauser.

And fortunately, the verdigris seems to have no effect on the smooth extraction of spent cases, even after the chamber is getting rather hot. I managed to recover all but one of the spent casings in the event that I can borrow someone's reloading bench sometime, and it looks like most of the verdigris gets stripped off the casings sometime during extraction. I don't think it ended up on the surfaces of the chamber, so maybe it fell back down into the magazine.

By the time I was finished plinking, it was too hot for me to make a thorough search for the spent bullets in the tall grass around my steel plate, so I can't say for sure whether the green verdigris gets completely stripped off the bullet jacket when it engages the rifling. I was very curious about this, because I read in the Boer War-era medical journals, the British Army surgeons kept pulling "poisoned" Mauser bullets out of their dead and wounded, mistaking either copper verdigris or green-dyed storage wax on the bullet for a poisonous coating. The most authoritative surgeon in that war eventually concluded it was the storage wax, but other surgeons and soldiers and Boers mention verdigris so many times that it makes you wonder.

But anyway, I don't regret buying PPU's 175 grain 7x57mm. It's a little more expensive than the 125 grain, but the recoil and kick is still extremely forgiving and gentle, and it's much closer to the historical 173 grain bullet that would have been used by those countries fielding 7x57mm service rifles. For the most historical loading, it would have to be the pre-spitzer round nose-type bullet, but I don't often see new manufactured PPU round-nose for sale at a reasonable price.
 
the verdigris would fuse hot brass cases into the chambers of the early trapdoor Springfield carbines since they had weak extractors
there was no "fusing". verdigris is a chemical reaction in brass between copper and salt where the copper exposed to certain acids that contain a salt as an active ingredient and starts a process that separates copper from the zinc in the brass alloy. the remaining zinc is often a paste-like substance bound with the inert salt leftover, and is colored green from the freed copper. this creates a "seal" if the brass is in a vessel with limited volume because the copper and zinc separately take up more room than when still alloyed.
the verdigris seems to have no effect on the smooth extraction of spent cases
any sufficiently plated (which is most modern chambers) bore, or a bore that is generous at the shoulder, or a verdigris'd cartridge that has not remaining in the bore long enough to continue absorbing atmospheric moisture, is unlikely to "stick" in the bore. an extractor of sufficient strength can overcome geometric changes to the cartridge case, but runs the risk of the weakened case material being pulled apart - creating a broken shell or rim tear.

ammunition is generally cheap enough that it usually isn't worth the time/effort to clean or use corroded ammunition, and with any such ammunition, care must be taken that the cartridge's strength hasn't been compromised.
 
there was no "fusing". verdigris is a chemical reaction in brass between copper and salt where the copper exposed to certain acids that contain a salt as an active ingredient and starts a process that separates copper from the zinc in the brass alloy. the remaining zinc is often a paste-like substance bound with the inert salt leftover, and is colored green from the freed copper. this creates a "seal" if the brass is in a vessel with limited volume because the copper and zinc separately take up more room than when still alloyed.

any sufficiently plated (which is most modern chambers) bore, or a bore that is generous at the shoulder, or a verdigris'd cartridge that has not remaining in the bore long enough to continue absorbing atmospheric moisture, is unlikely to "stick" in the bore. an extractor of sufficient strength can overcome geometric changes to the cartridge case, but runs the risk of the weakened case material being pulled apart - creating a broken shell or rim tear.

ammunition is generally cheap enough that it usually isn't worth the time/effort to clean or use corroded ammunition, and with any such ammunition, care must be taken that the cartridge's strength hasn't been compromised.
For whatever reason, most of the verdigris is on the bullet jacket, with only superficial specks of verdigris on the casing, so it seems pretty safe to me. When I scratch away the verdigris on the casing, it looks like there isn't evidence of deep pitting or corrosion to the casing surface underneath.

Should I be worried about the soluble salts in the verdigris drawing atmospheric moisture to the barrel and chamber of the rifle these cartridges were being fired from? I hope it's not like those nasty salts in corrosive primer ammo.

edit: nvm, according to Wikipedia the salts in verdigris are insoluble in water
 
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I'm sorry all, I really don't mean to constantly spam this thread with video links from one guy, but I find him genuinely interesting, and this thing is just too damn cool to not share.

I wonder how many James Bond-style pen guns are out there. Perhaps wildly impractical, but so goddamn cool, even for someone like me. I'll make this the last video I share, because I'm sure I'm annoying some people by doing it. Although I'll happily share more that I find interesting, if folks are interested.

 
verdigris is on the bullet jacket
most modern (after 1900) bullet jackets are copper alloy. the older the bullet, the more likely it is to have a higher copper ratio in the alloy. and as you mention, while there are several salts that can cause the reaction in copper to produce verdigris, almost none of is hydroscopic since they've already been bonded partially to the copper and that's often nothing left to endanger steel alloy. iron maybe, but not steel.
I wonder how many James Bond-style pen guns are out there.
i've manufactured and sold them - they're an "Any Other Weapon" in the US, and are neat novelty gifts. some jurisdictions have a blanket ban on firearms not readily identifiable as a firearm, but most places have no such ban.

they are largely useless in any sort of "James Bond" situation as at the ranges they would be useful at, you are better served with a needle/stiletto type automatic knife for stabbing, or using a pre-charged air capsule to introduce an embolism somewhere vital such as the neck, armpit, inner thigh, hollow of the shoulders, kidneys, lungs, ocular cavity, or spine (between vertebra). from experience, your target is likely not to be wearing armor in all of these locations at the same time in the situations where an agent can be within a useful range.

all that aside, and ignoring fancy ricin pellet umbrellas, it's far better for plausible deniability to arrange for street crime, a bombing, or an unfortunate accident. frequent travelers roll the dice often and mechanical failure of a critical system, especially in countries where PMCS can be costly (training, spare parts, facilities) or impossible (embargoes on the same) is a very real risk.
 
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most modern (after 1900) bullet jackets are copper alloy. the older the bullet, the more likely it is to have a higher copper ratio in the alloy. and as you mention, while there are several salts that can cause the reaction in copper to produce verdigris, almost none of is hydroscopic since they've already been bonded partially to the copper and that's often nothing left to endanger steel alloy. iron maybe, but not steel.

i've manufactured and sold them - they're an "Any Other Weapon" in the US, and are neat novelty gifts. some jurisdictions have a blanket ban on firearms not readily identifiable as a firearm, but most places have no such ban.

they are largely useless in any sort of "James Bond" situation as at the ranges they would be useful at, you are better served with a needle/stiletto type automatic knife for stabbing, or using a pre-charged air capsule to introduce an embolism somewhere vital such as the neck, armpit, inner thigh, hollow of the shoulders, kidneys, lungs, ocular cavity, or spine (between vertebra). from experience, your target is likely not to be wearing armor in all of these locations at the same time in the situations where an agent can be within a useful range.

all that aside, and ignoring fancy ricin pellet umbrellas, it's far better for plausible deniability to arrange for street crime, a bombing, or an unfortunate accident. frequent travelers roll the dice often and mechanical failure of a critical system, especially in countries where PMCS can be costly (training, spare parts, facilities) or impossible (embargoes on the same) is a very real risk.

Wow, that's awesome, dude! I probably should have a look, but did you feature any of your creations in this thread, or perhaps elsewhere? I'd be curious to see. And I guess all this shows just how much I know about guns and weaponry as a whole. It probably sounds pretty faggy to say that I've, as yet, never fired a gun, but they're just not a thing in my part of the world. It is something I'd like to cross off the bucket list, though, but I'm not exactly tripping over myself to do it. Still, it is on the bucket list to fire a weapon.

I can't help imagining what kinds of spy toys might actually exist. The movie ones might be cool, but I think the real stuff is even cooler. Something I've always been interested in, personally, is physical pentesting, basically getting paid to break into stuff. It's far from gun talk, so I'll keep it brief, apart from saying that there can be some really cool spy-esque toys involved, weapon or not.

Awesome to hear that you made guns, though. I might know absolutely nothing about them, but it's pretty obvious to anyone who knows a little bit about anything at all, that something like that tends to require quite a bit of precision machining and craftsmanship. I think I linked a video from Ian about home/shop-made guns, before. Some of them were mind-blowingly simple, and probably quite literally mind-blowing if you were to try to use any sights they may have!

EDIT: Yeah, this video is one of two I'm thinking about. The other one is linked below it. And again, I'm sorry to overshare. I just find the stuff extremely interesting.



I think most can agree that it's pretty astounding how little material and skill can make a lethal weapon, or at least one good enough to cause serious injury.
 
I probably should have a look, but did you feature any of your creations in this thread, or perhaps elsewhere?
i've provided firearms for television and film a couple times, mostly films and some "direct to video" type productions. some recent ones were the "blockbuster" category though. the vast majority of my business is contract armory duties (service/support, spare parts, training, accessories and supplies, et c) for government agencies that are too small or too remote to bother with constantly shipping things back and forth or dealing with locals who might not be familiar with their gear or who isn't manufacturer trained/supplied. last year i expanded into manufacturing ammunition as well.
I can't help imagining what kinds of spy toys might actually exist.
most fancy "spy" toys i've worked with were more ingenius than complex. like using a decorative metal dish as an amplifier and guitar "art piece" to pick up spoken conversation (which vibrated the strings on the guitar minutely, that were reflected and amplified by the metal dish to the conference room window) that is seen and examined via laser microphone through a glass from a skyscraper on the other side of a street (this was in the 80's).
Some of them were mind-blowingly simple, and probably quite literally mind-blowing if you were to try to use any sights they may have! [...] I think most can agree that it's pretty astounding how little material and skill can make a lethal weapon, or at least one good enough to cause serious injury.
the most common problem that expedient firearms face is the manufacturer not understanding how to manage the peak pressure impulse of when a cartridge is fired. it's why a PVC pipe shotgun works very well, but an all steel pipe handgun is a grenade waiting to happen. firearms are not generally very complex or technologically advanced objects; however if you don't understand mechanics very well, you're sure to have a bad day.
 

This is the old edition they are now currently working on the FGC 9 ( Fuck Gun Control 9). Being made by deterrence distributed on twitter. They have been able to 3d print glock mags (you can print them for about 3 bucks a pop) and nylon print AR lowers n mags (which is much stronger then anything previously) .

The new FCG is like the shunty in the video, The only non printable parts are the screws n pins, the barrel and the bolt (all available at a hardware store). They even developed a way to rifle the barrel using ECM with common parts.

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As for the old fashion way.

This pro Russian Georgian separatist killed 2 cops with home made ammo (that was also AP).
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Check out this link for more home made weapons around the world.
 
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I grew up around firearms. Never been a huge fan of higher caliber ones, but I like the simplicity of 9mml and .22. Got to fire an AK-47 my dad bought a few years back. Don't formally like rifles, but it was fun.
 

Just a heads up but the ATF changed it's policy on how you measure braced pistols.

Tldr: it's measured with the brace off and if you have a folding adapter on it's with it folded up.
 

Just a heads up but the ATF changed it's policy on how you measure braced pistols.

Tldr: it's measured with the brace off and if you have a folding adapter on it's with it folded up.

How do you do, fellow kids? You got any non-compliant pics? Looking for a good time.

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https://spee.ch/@Deterrence-Dispensed:2/MenendezMag

3D printable Glock mags. They are currently working on various other form of Glock mags and extended mags too. They are cheap and work very well. IIRC they are working on proving a spring jig. That said Glock springs are available everywhere even ali express easy.

They have Professor Parabellum (guy who made a bunch of old gun how to pdfs/books from the 80s and 90s) on board they are working on several projects. Such as
  • Mostly 3D printed pump action mag fed shotgun. They are specifically working on this because of 12 gauge being able to work easier with black powder
  • Boom string AKA a easy way to mass produce nitrocellulose (early smokeless powder) using cotton string and a trough of the required acids
  • Refining the FGC 9
  • AP ammo using ECM
 
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I'm so fucking excited for these galeo rifles. From what I've heard they'll be sitting at around 1000-1200 and I'm totally down for it.

A little disappointed they won't include a bipod but I can find one of those on my own.

 
No pics of some PA Luty SMG's in this thread yet? (Sorry if I missed it.)

I wonder what's more reliable, one of these, or an original WWII era Sten. 😄

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Another guy's take on it:

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