Mega Man General Thread - Mega Man Battle Network Legacy Collection announced

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X Prime said:
Zero only has glass-cannon gameplay if you decide to forgo the use of the Cyber-Elves for the sake of not taking a ranking penalty. Guy can literally get two entire health bars.
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That is completely wrong, especially since the amount of damage you take effects your ranking. If you play for a high rank then the amount of damage you take is nearly negligible, the strategy is to not get hit.
It's also perfectly possible to use the Cyber-Elves in ways that cause Zero to be a glass-cannon, especially if the player is going for a more casual play-through.

Please try to understand these things properly before trying to discuss them.
 
X Prime said:
No, you're absolutely right about that. I just personally don't see the functional difference between deliberately choosing to do a minimalist X run and playing that way in Z with the exception of the game not giving you a negative number for doing it in X.
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I guess it just comes to perspective, to me getting everything in X games feels like the "proper" way to play whereas with Zero in my eyes being a skilled swordsman from the start is the proper way to do it not to mention the game rewards you as well except in the 4th game where rank truly does not matter anymore

it's also admittedly bias as I do find Zero's gameplay of using the saber more fun than the buster so I have no issue further making things even more challenging and same deal with classic, I rarely use boss weaknesses since I find the extra challenge more fun
I guess it just comes down to me personally finding classic and zero more fun whereas with X's biggest positive for most I'm not too fond of,
Just wanted to offer a different perspective away from the story and lore talk, I know many zero fans talk of the games like their perfect because of the story but I personally just find it's gameplay loop to be the most fun of any 2D game i've played and I feel many of them completely gloss over that to instead talk about how amazing the lore is instead
 
Dynamite Bean said:
I guess it just comes to perspective, to me getting everything in X games feels like the "proper" way to play whereas with Zero in my eyes being a skilled swordsman from the start is the proper way to do it not to mention the game rewards you as well except in the 4th game where rank truly does not matter anymore
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I seem to remember there's a minigame you can get if you maintain S in Z4, so on some level you can get something out of it. In Z1 you just need to get A in the intro stage to open a door in the base for an Elf, then you can forget about it.

I do not know, I think it is erroneous to say playing minimalist is the proper way because there's an entire system that countermands it, plus an entire scavenger hunt related to that system. Though I say this when I do in fact do it that way too, so I am being a bit of a hypocrite there.
 
X Prime said:
I seem to remember there's a minigame you can get if you maintain S in Z4, so on some level you can get something out of it. In Z1 you just need to get A in the intro stage to open a door in the base for an Elf, then you can forget about it.

I do not know, I think it is erroneous to say playing minimalist is the proper way because there's an entire system that countermands it, plus an entire scavenger hunt related to that system. Though I say this when I do in fact do it that way too, so I am being a bit of a hypocrite there.
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I completely forgot the zero games had minigames in them(unless it's just zero 4 but i feel like i've heard of others being in other games)
You're probably right, I'd honestly have to try a proper x minimalist run someday just to see if i'm correct in how critical I am and compare it with zero to see how I feel
 
Dynamite Bean said:
You're probably right, I'd honestly have to try a proper x minimalist run someday just to see if i'm correct in how critical I am and compare it with zero to see how I feel
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There are absolute psychopaths who do X6 armorless X runs by using movement tricks with I think Magma Blade to get past the parts where he can't make a jump. You might find that sort of thing fun, give it a try; it's too much for me. The games just do not actively incentivize it like Z2 and Z3 do, albeit I would say poorly.

But I do want to mention this:

Dynamite Bean said:
Just wanted to offer a different perspective away from the story and lore talk, I know many zero fans talk of the games like their perfect because of the story but I personally just find it's gameplay loop to be the most fun of any 2D game i've played and I feel many of them completely gloss over that to instead talk about how amazing the lore is instead
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You are correct on this front. I think a lot of it has to do with how the Z series came out around the time when doing drama CDs and such for anime/games was in vogue, and that sort of side material started getting translated by fans.

Another problem, I would say, is that when MMZ fans do talk about the difficulty they implicitly do so while assuming minimalist runs that focus on rank, claiming it is uniquely difficult among the subseries without specifying that fact. Maintaining rank is strictly optional, and the game gets just as easy as any X game after collecting upgrades if the player does not care about that.
 
X Prime said:
You are correct on this front. I think a lot of it has to do with how the Z series came out around the time when doing drama CDs and such for anime/games was in vogue, and that sort of side material started getting translated by fans.

Another problem, I would say, is that when MMZ fans do talk about the difficulty they implicitly do so while assuming minimalist runs that focus on rank, claiming it is uniquely difficult among the subseries without specifying that fact. Maintaining rank is strictly optional, and the game gets just as easy as any X game after collecting upgrades if the player does not care about that.
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That is something interesting I always noticed, Zero and ZX feel the most anime of all series(though i've never played BN or SF games so i could be wrong) and it makes me wonder if that also plays a part in why the fans of this series act the way they do

I wanted to talk about that earlier to an extent till I forgot, but when people do mention the difficulty it feels like it's just jerking themselves off for obtaining a no damage S rank run
I'd argue the games get easier than X, first time I played through and was bad I went all out with cyber-elves and they make the diffuclty a joke, spikes can't kill you, two full healthbars, you don't slip on ice, I think some let you jump higher and climb faster
really a lot of the difficulty outside of certain stages and fights comes from purposely focusing on rank which like you said, is optional and most first time players probably won't care about it
 
Dynamite Bean said:
That is something interesting I always noticed, Zero and ZX feel the most anime of all series(though i've never played BN or SF games so i could be wrong) and it makes me wonder if that also plays a part in why the fans of this series act the way they do
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It's all anime or based on anime, the difference I think is similar to the transitions from classic Shin Megami Tensei (so like 1 and 2) to later entries like 4.

Namely, that the anime influences are becoming more blatant/recognizable as modern influences. Almost no one in the West has watched classic Casshan, so they won't recognize, say, that MM.EXE's mask or Bass.EXE's cloak are direct references. Many people think that the cloak Zero has in MMZ2's intro stage is a Bass.EXE reference when the whole thing, including the desert setting, is just a Casshan homage to begin with.

Dynamite Bean said:
I wanted to talk about that earlier to an extent till I forgot, but when people do mention the difficulty it feels like it's just jerking themselves off for obtaining a no damage S rank run
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This is pretty much exactly it. Meanwhile when you look at the X challenge run people it's very clear that they're talking about such runs, and nobody tries to claim or imply that the games are innately hard because those runs are an option.
 
X Prime said:
Namely, that the anime influences are becoming more blatant/recognizable as modern influences.
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the older anime based stuff, especially those very first couple of boxarts and the art with those games make it so clear that it's based on the anime of the era. mega man has always had very distinctly japanese aesthetic to its designs.
 
You will not get another Megaman game until MH Wilds is out, Retarded Evil gets 2 more games and Street Walkers gets another.
 
Celebrate Nite said:
Like more difficult than the classic games, or on par?
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i think it's about as hard as x2 and x3 are. so, not impossible, but you will need at least a decent amount of skill at platformers. the armor in this game is very strong, so that helps.
 
huckbeine said:
Legends 1+2 and Tron Bonne is not enough to make a new collection
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There's a decent amount of Japan-exclusive Legends spinoffs, plus they could release that MML3 demo they announced but cancelled, in a sorta Star Fox 2 way. That'd be more than enough for a collection.

David Kirk Ginder said:
Fuck, you really do suck at Mega Man.

Also, you sound like a 16 year old girl spending half an hour reading a menu trying to pick something to eat.
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X1 is possibly the easiest game in the entire series too. Well, the SNES version anyway, I struggled more with the remake and couldn't beat Vile's story at all.

X Prime said:
Star Force sold better than I had been led to believe, and it's kind of weird that it's somehow the black sheep of the franchise according to the fandom.
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It's because BN purists are let down that it wasn't as good as those games, I felt that way initially but learned to enjoy SF for what it was.
 
Grub said:
Generally I agree with you, but X2's intro stage has one of my favourite Megaman X themes

https://youtube.com/watch?v=1wvoDBEhaOg:89
Actually, the intro sequence in general is just pretty awesome and probably one of the best intro sequences in the X series.
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I love that opening. It's epic as hell, I wish we had gotten Maverick Hunter 2 so we could see a remake of that scene.
 
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