Mega Man General Thread - Mega Man Battle Network Legacy Collection announced

[AlmightyMagichan]

Bla Bla Bla

If you don't think any of that is interesting at all, and that everything is crap, then I don't know what to tell you.

 

[MetokurGroomedMe]

While technically raising and then not using all the elves gives you Jackson in Z1, you are better served using all of them because that gives you Ultimate Mode instead which includes him anyway. You just do it at the last moment if you insist on having a high rank, because having a high rank makes the bosses use other attacks.

The crystal costs really have nothing to do with atmosphere, they are just an insane grind in 1 and 2, which is reduced in 3 where everything is supposed to be even worse off on paper due to Weil and Omega. Thankfully there's a ROM patch for it to cut down that grind.

The X series was not "always foreshadowing" anything about such an X vs. Zero fight. They already did one in X2 which the fandom screams is non-canon because they don't want to see Zero lose outright, and another one was only a thing starting in the X3 ending. Same deal with X4 X's ending, where Zero's side had no X in it at all.

The problem with the whole concept of X going bad is "why was it done?" It was not done because it'd be cool or interesting, because it's not, and the entire motif for it was taken from a tokusatsu film. It was done solely as an excuse for Zero to take the protagonist role, because Inafune was obsessed with him.

copy x is a good concept, imo, but he was done very dirty by the plot of zero seemingly getting constant rewrites. there are a number of interesting ways x could be the main antagonist without being a boring or hamfisted plotline. the most interesting way to do x in the zero series to me is that x eventually just got tired of fighting, and that leads just as well into copy x. the elf wars shit is all so unnecessary.

 

[X Prime]

copy x is a good concept, imo, but he was done very dirty by the plot of zero seemingly getting constant rewrites. there are a number of interesting ways x could be the main antagonist without being a boring or hamfisted plotline. the most interesting way to do x in the zero series to me is that x eventually just got tired of fighting, and that leads just as well into copy x. the elf wars shit is all so unnecessary.

The concept of Copy X is fine, easily better than it just being X all along. The problem is that they had to backfill it with nonsense.

People feel like they had to make up all this nonsense of why Copy X turned evil after the fact, such as that it's because he never had the morality testing. For some reason none of them simply suggest that maybe Ciel just made a bad copy because they are invested in their underage waifu being perfect.

In Inti's case, the implication from the MMZ Collection website is that it is because he was supposed to be possessed by a fifth of X's soul (because his soul split into 5 pieces after sealing the Dark Elf) but that fragment just fucked off. Which is even stupider than the usual "didn't have the morality testing" theory.

As for the Elf Wars, the less said about it the better. It was just done to puff up Weil.

 

[Another Random]

The X series was not "always foreshadowing" anything about such an X vs. Zero fight. They already did one in X2 which the fandom screams is non-canon because they don't want to see Zero lose outright, and another one was only a thing starting in the X3 ending. Same deal with X4 X's ending, where Zero's side had no X in it at all.

Mega Man X3 ending:

Narrator: X has crushed Sigma's plan once again. But many questions still occupy his mind......
"Why must humans fight against Reploids...?"
"And, why must Reploids fight against each other..."
As X stares at the burning remnants of Doppler's lab, his body trembles from an unknown sorrow.
"What does fate have in store for me?" he wonders.
He can only hope that someday Dr. Light's plan for him will finally be revealed.
Unknown to X, his destiny has already been decided.
To save mankind, he must destroy Zero.

But only time will tell, when and why.....

Mega Man X4 ending:

(X's small escape pod is seen flying out of the exploding space station. Inside it, X reflects over the battles he had with Colonel, Double, and Sigma. Suddenly a message comes from the Hunter HQ. Zero appears on the screen.)

Zero: This is Maverick Hunter Headquarters.

X: Zero!

Zero: It's good to see you're safe, X. I was really worried about you.

X: Sorry about that.

Zero: Don't worry. It's all over. Go home and rest. You've earned it.

X: But Zero... What... What if I become one of the Mavericks?

Zero: Don't ask such silly questions! I'm breaking contact now.

X: Wait, Zero! I-I'm serious! Zero... if... if I become a Maverick, you have to take care of me.

Zero: ....... Don't be ridiculous. Now hurry on back.

(Zero stops the transmission.)

X: ... Promise me... Zero......

(X speeds towards Earth in the escape pod.)

Narrator:...The battle has ended.
But for some reason, Zero's
memories of the past continue
to haunt his mind.

...As a hunter, it is his
duty to go after those
Mavericks...

...And at the same time,
he knows that it is his destiny
to defeat his friend one day.

Two different people.
Two different fates.

In the future...
Zero's decision will lead
two great hunters to tragedy.

The future is coming...

If you want to say this isn't good writing or a good idea, that's fair. But you can't really say 'they never said that'.

 

[X Prime]

I literally mentioned those endings in the thing you quoted? I questioned the "always" part.

 

[MetokurGroomedMe]

They already did one in X2 which the fandom screams is non-canon

from what i can tell, isn't it supposed to be that this fight with the fake zero in x2 where zero dashes in, fucks up the clone, and the game moves on supposed to be canon, since zero shows up in x3 with the design from x2, and the saber? it's entirely possible i've missed some random dev interview or a piece of japanese-only media that says the fight happened there.

i always assumed it didn't, and that black zero was a reference to the fake zero from x2, which was why x3 and x4 both pushed the x vs zero fight that they finally went in on a bit in x5, even if it's lackluster there because it's just a standard boss fight with extremely good music.

 

[X Prime]

from what i can tell, isn't it supposed to be that this fight with the fake zero in x2 where zero dashes in, fucks up the clone, and the game moves on supposed to be canon, since zero shows up in x3 with the design from x2, and the saber? it's entirely possible i've missed some random dev interview or a piece of japanese-only media that says the fight happened there. i always assumed it didn't, and that black zero was a reference to the fake zero from x2.

There's nothing about it. The usual citation is that the fans insist the slides at the start of X5 depict canon events, such as Zero fighting Bit.

 

[MetokurGroomedMe]

There's nothing about it. The usual citation is that the fans insist the slides at the start of X5 depict canon events, such as Zero fighting Bit.

god this fandom sometimes. seems like if we're just using the evidence presented in gameplay, the parts collected ending would be canon, if only because zero shows up in x3 with no explanation necessary, with the same design he has in his x2 redesign. occam's razor says that means the 100% version of that scene is probably the one they built the future games on. bet there's somebody out there who has a conspiracy theory that because we can play as black zero in x4-x8 (maybe not x7) it's not the real zero there, but a rebuilt version.

i watched day of sigma again yesterday, and it made me wistfully wonder what x2 and x3 in the MHX style would have been like. why the hell did it have to be on the psp?

 

[NERF or NOTHIN']

If you don't think any of that is interesting at all, and that everything is crap, then I don't know what to tell you.

Yes we know Leviathan gives you a "special feeling", doesn't make the games good. This may be a new concept for a Sonic fan as well but there are opinions other than yours.

My opinion is that Z4 was a step in the right direction. Humans are here, we have to protect them even though they do not like or trust Reploids. They have unique personalities and speaking styles. The world has opened up, you are beginning to understand Ciel's struggle to continue X's legacy.

lol nevermind Zero's dead again. Enjoy becoming a rock, buddy.

 

[X Prime]

god this fandom sometimes. seems like if we're just using the evidence presented in gameplay, the parts collected ending would be canon, if only because zero shows up in x3 with no explanation necessary, with the same design he has in his x2 redesign. occam's razor says that means the 100% version of that scene is probably the one they built the games on. i watched day of sigma again yesterday, and it made me wistfully wonder what x2 and x3 in the MHX style would have been like.

Zero has his booblight X2 design when he shows up to kill Fake Zero, however. So which design he has doesn't affect which ending is canon.

It's also worth noting that MMZ follows the bad ending of X5, where Enigma and the Shuttle both fail and Eurasia crashes. X6 by contrast does a mishmash that explicitly says that Eurasia did not crash.

MHX2-on would have been nice, yes. Though I wouldn't trust Inafune to do it.

 

[MetokurGroomedMe]

Zero has his booblight X2 design when he shows up to kill Fake Zero, however. So which design he has doesn't affect which ending is canon.

true, i suppose what makes the most difference there is that zero isn't dead in x3, the design is booblight for friend or foe in x2.

It's also worth noting that MMZ follows the bad ending of X5, where Enigma and the Shuttle both fail and Eurasia crashes. X6 by contrast does a mishmash that explicitly says that Eurasia did not crash.

is there ANY info on how large eurasia is? the colony, not the supercontinent. with the shuttle ending (the one i think is supposed to be 'canon' in x6, maybe) leaving about 14% of eurasia to hit earth, and saying that it did tons of environmental damage, i wish i could get a sense from the games of what that damage was. x7 and x8 both have stories related to earth being unlivable at least on its surface by humans, and how maverick crime increased drastically after Eurasia and the Nightmare incident. such a frustrating series because they never follow up on the interesting parts of it.

 

[X Prime]

is there ANY info on how large eurasia is? the colony, not the supercontinent. with the shuttle ending (the one i think is supposed to be 'canon' in x6, maybe) leaving about 14% of eurasia to hit earth, and saying that it did tons of environmental damage, i wish i could get a sense from the games of what that damage was. x7 and x8 both have stories related to earth being unlivable at least on its surface by humans, and how maverick crime increased drastically after Eurasia and Nightmare. such a frustrating series because they never follow up on the interesting parts of it.

You got the number exactly correct; however, Alia says most of it will burn up on atmospheric re-entry.

X6 does some weird thing where yes, the shuttle succeeded, but the explosion itself somehow damaged the planet after the fact. They also changed three years later to three weeks later.

What you say about certain things not being stated more clearly they also did to Axl himself. There's a weird story in the X7 soundtrack called "Golden Days" where Axl has no memories except for some kind of "longing" (phrasing...) regarding X. They did nothing with it, much like all the drama CD stories that were done for MMZ that if I recall had to kind of be retconned later.

 

[AlmightyMagichan]

Don't you love it when some jackass is hanging around and won't shut up about how "this isn't cannon" and "you don't know anything about the complicated lore," and "Infune wanted to do this, and this, and this."

Shut the Hell up for a few minutes so we think about these stupid games and their stupid writing.

 

[X Prime]

You seem to be making things up in your head for some reason. Nobody said it was complicated, just retarded.

 

[David Kirk Ginder]

I don't even think it's real and just a series of flash animations

MMX Corrupted appeared in my YT feed recently. Looks pretty impressive for a fan game.

If I remember correctly, it was made by a Brazilian? I wouldn't be surprised if it's a long con to steal money from hopeful Mega Man fans. It could just be fake flash animations. Or it could be real but will be permanently in development because once it's released, the Patreon cash flow stops.

 

[X Prime]

Corrupted is indeed a real game, in theory. It's just in development hell for what, 18 years now?

I distinctly remember being told like a year ago that the incomplete demo footage caused development to pick up. It's a race between which happens first, Corrupted coming out or the heat death of the universe.

 

[Dynamite Bean]

All X story and lore sperging just reinforces my opinion that the X series is the weakest of the franchise and is hard carried by how good the first 4 games are(especially 1 and 4 even if I think 2 and 3 are equally serviceable as well)
though in the grand scheme of it, it's the lore and story that bothers me the least, I personally can't stand the scavenger hunt shit of the games, just let me get straight to the point of the action which is why classic and zero will always remain my favorite
I get many people enjoy the aspect of starting weak and becoming more powerful overtime but I can't with how X does it, I grew up with X and was immediately sold with zero's glass cannon gameplay flow even if it can be total bullshit at times

I also don't think X Corrupted is ever coming out, I get fangames of that caliber take a long time but there's a limit and at this point i'm convinced it is a real game but the dude is just trolling the community especially X fans who hunger for a proper new entry for decades

 

[X Prime]

Zero only has glass-cannon gameplay if you decide to forgo the use of the Cyber-Elves for the sake of not taking a ranking penalty. Guy can literally get two entire health bars.

 

[Dynamite Bean]

Zero only has glass-cannon gameplay if you decide to forgo the use of the Cyber-Elves for the sake of not taking a ranking penalty. Guy can literally get two entire health bars.

I know but I like it that way, I know many complain about it but I find it to be a fair tradeoff, ex-skills in the grand scheme of things are midly helpful but not important and it feels like a nice reward if you want the challenge, whereas with elves ignoring the annoying grinding aspect it's a nice way to let players experience it casually at an extent albeit it'd be better if the grinding wasn't there at all since you're already punished for using them by being locked out of ex-skills and having to do tedious shit in order to make the game more enjoyable for a casual player will absolutely make them never want to return

 

[X Prime]

I know but I like it that way, I know many complain about it but I find it to be a fair tradeoff, ex-skills in the grand scheme of things are midly helpful but not important and it feels like a nice reward if you want the challenge

No, you're absolutely right about that. I just don't see the functional difference between deliberately choosing to do a minimalist X run and playing that way in Z with the exception of the game not giving you a negative number for using your options in X.

I actually don't see the complaint about the EX-Skills personally. You get what, 4 Elves to force your rank to A if you really want certain ones? Most of the skills feel virtually useless anyway, particularly the Buster ones. It just feels bad for completionism I guess.

I would think people would complain more about how stuff is completely missable.