March 21st Jihad attack on Brussels

This story is breaking so hard I can't even find shit on it.

http://metro.co.uk/2016/03/22/two-loud-explosions-heard-at-brussels-airport-5766899/

Attackers were shouting islamic shit and then people died. Belgium YES!

 

[AnOminous]

Isn't there polling showing evangelicals want similar things in terms of religious integration into state matters?

A major difference is that we actually have a Constitution that directly prohibits that.

 

[Ruin]

Isn't there polling showing evangelicals want similar things in terms of religious integration into state matters?

Polls showing that they want prayer in school yes. There are no polls showing evangelicals wishing for homosexuals to be executed and women to be second class citizens. Trying to draw a comparison between the two is incredibly stupid.

 

[JU 199]

Polls showing that they want prayer in school yes. There are no polls showing evangelicals wishing for homosexuals to be executed and women to be second class citizens. Trying to draw a comparison between the two is incredibly stupid.

That's like arguing one type of religious integration isn't as bad as the other.
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/

Global South are more likely than those in the Global North to read the Bible literally (58% vs. 40%) and to favor making the Bible the official law of the land in their countries (58% vs. 28%).

Could near absolute literalism be the problem with modern Islam?

 

[*Asterisk*]

Isn't there polling showing evangelicals want similar things in terms of religious integration into state matters?

Pushing back the various forms of the Christan Far Right is the product of centuries of struggle, most of which was quite violent.

We're very fortunate to live with the benefits of a society where even most of the utterly contemptible reactionaries don't resolve disputes with government-sanctioned or government-condoned thuggery or violence. If that wasn't the case, peaceful change would be impossible.

 

[Lorento]

Could near absolute literalism be the problem with modern Islam?

Literalism is a problem with any religion based on books written thousands of years ago.

Most modern Christians would not, for example, follow all of the 10 Commandments or decide that Saint Paul was right about everything, because it is incompatible with the Enlightenment values of the West. Or rather "Don't kill people for who they are and don't keep people as Slaves."

Islam is a different sort of beast. While based on certain Abrahamic traditions, it's birth was violent and bloody and it came from a place riddled with Tribalism, whereas Christianity was formed in a world where one Emperor ruled supreme. Some of its tenements are certainly more violent than those mentioned in the Torah or the New Testament, although the Torah does contain some startlingly similar stuff.

The main issue is not that Islam has violent tenements. Abrahamic Religions all have this darker side to them. The issue is that Islam has regressed back into radicalism, back to the old days of the 6th century when they were just getting started. Extremists portray Islam as this poor oppressed religion, beaten down by the Western Overlords and humiliated by Imperialists. This, while false, rings true to those who saw the Soviet Union invade Afghanistan and those who saw the US and Britain invade Iraq.

How to solve the issue that caused this outrageous tragedy? Well, the first thing would be to stop supporting the Gulf States. These people export this terrorism and the fact that the West supports these fascists is absolutely absurd and a betrayal of our principles.

At the end of day though, you should not fear attacks that may come from Islamic Extremists. I mean, you should fear them, but fear for Europe. A lot of the anti immigration parties that are beginning to grow in prominence have a certain familiar stench to them. The Alt Right is rising in prominence, and those guys are just SJWs except they hate anyone who ISN'T white or male. In Germany, some of the parties that have been gaining votes would fit right in with the right wingers who rose in prominence in the 1920s. In the UK, UKIP, while not overtly racist, have elements within it that are batshit insane.

So, while you cry for Brussels. While you cry for whatever country is next (The UK is projected and I personally expect Manchester or Birmingham to be hit). I highly suggest that you instead cry for Europe, because while we focus on our enemies from without, our own populaces are starting to gather into Camp Marxist and Camp Fascist.

 

[Takayuki Yagami]

Literalism is a problem with any religion based on books written thousands of years ago.

Most modern Christians would not, for example, follow all of the 10 Commandments or decide that Saint Paul was right about everything, because it is incompatible with the Enlightenment values of the West. Or rather "Don't kill people for who they are and don't keep people as Slaves."

Islam is a different sort of beast. While based on certain Abrahamic traditions, it's birth was violent and bloody and it came from a place riddled with Tribalism, whereas Christianity was formed in a world where one Emperor ruled supreme. Some of its tenements are certainly more violent than those mentioned in the Torah or the New Testament, although the Torah does contain some startlingly similar stuff.

The main issue is not that Islam has violent tenements. Abrahamic Religions all have this darker side to them. The issue is that Islam has regressed back into radicalism, back to the old days of the 6th century when they were just getting started. Extremists portray Islam as this poor oppressed religion, beaten down by the Western Overlords and humiliated by Imperialists. This, while false, rings true to those who saw the Soviet Union invade Afghanistan and those who saw the US and Britain invade Iraq.

How to solve the issue that caused this outrageous tragedy? Well, the first thing would be to stop supporting the Gulf States. These people export this terrorism and the fact that the West supports these fascists is absolutely absurd and a betrayal of our principles.

At the end of day though, you should not fear attacks that may come from Islamic Extremists. I mean, you should fear them, but fear for Europe. A lot of the anti immigration parties that are beginning to grow in prominence have a certain familiar stench to them. The Alt Right is rising in prominence, and those guys are just SJWs except they hate anyone who ISN'T white or male. In Germany, some of the parties that have been gaining votes would fit right in with the right wingers who rose in prominence in the 1920s. In the UK, UKIP, while not overtly racist, have elements within it that are batshit insane.

So, while you cry for Brussels. While you cry for whatever country is next (The UK is projected and I personally expect Manchester or Birmingham to be hit). I highly suggest that you instead cry for Europe, because while we focus on our enemies from without, our own populaces are starting to gather into Camp Marxist and Camp Fascist.

Tenets. A tenement is a shitty rat-hole slum apartment.

 

[The Knife's Husbando]

A major difference is that we actually have a Constitution that directly prohibits that.

Which prevents their religious bigotry precisely until a majority of them get into office. The Constitution has been altered before, and remember what a colossal cock-up that was.

 

[Lorento]

Tenets. A tenement is a shitty rat-hole slum apartment.

In fairness, when it comes to radical Islamists, most of them do live in shitty European tenements. I did cock up though, thank you boss.

Which prevents their religious bigotry precisely until a majority of them get into office. The Constitution has been altered before, and remember what a colossal cock-up that was.

But Constitutional amendments have to ratified by the States. 3/4ths of them in fact. The issue of religion is too divisive to get such an amendment passed.

 

[Male Idiot]

Right wing parties are much less a problem than jihadists and terrorists.

Comparing them is like comparing the pain of vaccionation to the pain of a full blown plague victim.

Sure, right extremists can be bad, but they are by faaaaaaaaaar the lesser evil.

I really feel that US and western Europe has been in this bubble of safe spaces and hugboxes for half a decade now, they are becoming completely out of touch with reality like a hippie overdosed on drugs who tries to hug a campfire.

 

[Marvin]

Right wing parties are much less a problem than jihadists and terrorists.

Comparing them is like comparing the pain of vaccionation to the pain of a full blown plague victim.

Sure, right extremists can be bad, but they are by faaaaaaaaaar the lesser evil.

I really feel that US and western Europe has been in this bubble of safe spaces and hugboxes for half a decade now, they are becoming completely out of touch with reality like a hippie overdosed on drugs who tries to hug a campfire.

I don't know about that. It's not like terrorists are going to successfully take over your country's politics. A terrorist can blow up a shopping mall once. Right wing extremists will hamstring your country's politics for decades.

 

[Lorento]

Right wing parties are much less a problem than jihadists and terrorists.

Comparing them is like comparing the pain of vaccionation to the pain of a full blown plague victim.

Sure, right extremists can be bad, but they are by faaaaaaaaaar the lesser evil.

I really feel that US and western Europe has been in this bubble of safe spaces and hugboxes for half a decade now, they are becoming completely out of touch with reality like a hippie overdosed on drugs who tries to hug a campfire.

This is not to disrespect your opinion or anything, but I'm fairly sure that US policy in the 1980s was 'The jihadists are much less of a problem than the Communists.'

Don't get me wrong, the Soviet Union was a threat then and the jihadists are a threat now. But we HAVE to look further ahead than a few months, because the rise of radical right wingers WILL become a threat to democracy in the future. In destroying the jihadists now, we can stop the extremists of the future that are growing in power even as we type on this autistic forum.

 

[JU 199]

@Lorento He said this a few pages back-

I would rather live in a military dictatorship than have my family butchered by islam fanatics.

Yeah that isn't rational thinking.

Islam really brings the autism out of this forum

 

[Marvin]

@Lorento He said this a few pages back-



Yeah that isn't rational thinking.

Islam really brings the autism out of this forum

Yeah...

I live in a country of 300+ million people. I mean, sure, I don't want my family blown up by jihadists. But then again, I also don't want to die in a hurricane or a tornado, or a subway tunnel collapse. But they all might happen. There's some things you just can't control about your life.

But one thing I can control, to some extent, is my government and what restrictions it has. And I'd definitely like to have the best government I can, regardless of hurricanes, tornadoes, subway tunnels or terrorists.

Terrorists are temporary. Governments last.

 

[Cosmos]

I don't know about that. It's not like terrorists are going to successfully take over your country's politics. A terrorist can blow up a shopping mall once. Right wing extremists will hamstring your country's politics for decades.

Well, it's a bit more complex than that. In some Islamic countries, terrorists actually do have political power. For example, Hezbollah and the Muslim Brotherhood are officially part of the government in Lebanon and Egypt, respectively. There's raging debate over exactly how bad of terrorists they are, but no one can deny that they are pushing an Islamist agenda and shooting down any secular progress.

 

[Marvin]

Well, it's a bit more complex than that. In some Islamic countries, terrorists actually do have political power. For example, Hezbollah and the Muslim Brotherhood are officially part of the government in Lebanon and Egypt, respectively. There's raging debate over exactly how bad of terrorists they are, but no one can deny that they are pushing an Islamist agenda and shooting down any secular progress.

I don't care that much about other countries. Sucks to be them.

 

[Male Idiot]

First, you assume that I abide by US morality. Why do you think I am a supporter of democracy to begin with? For all you know, I could be a supporter of oligarchy, theocracy or any other goverment forms. Perhaps I want to be ruled by a bunny in a funny hat.
Assuming the entire world values what you value is quite... autistic and American.
Rational depends on the value one puts on certain things.

For some, these things are different than what, lets say, our robot loving friend, Ass Manager belives in. He is totally cool to have his opinion, it is his basic right, and I respect him for telling me his opinion to my "face" . However, not everybody will always agree.

The thinking of "America is the world, we know the only right, and we must educate others by force no matter what they want" is what started the whole trouble in the middle east and what made the SJWs and the self-destructive liberals.

I can understand how hard it is to think of the world without any morality or political views that one grew up with, and since when has the US been actually invaded and occupied by a foreign force? Not in a long time.
It is perfectly rational that you can not comprehend nor understand the jihadi threat, nor be willing to pay whatever unseemly price is needed to survive.

A year ago I would have laughed at the arabs with you and would have known no fear. Now I fear quite a lot and I think that you can't appreciate the threat if you are not facing it.
The USA is not facing this threat, may Freedom Eagle bless the Atlantic for that, and the memory of 9/11 is just a fading old smoke, its lesson forgotten in blissful ignorance.

You say that it is a temporary threat. Islam is not a temporary threat. It has been waging war on us for five hundred years. If you keep all muslims out of your country, you can actually control terrorist threats. You can take my word for it, or we can google the history.

But if I'm an irrational raving madman, please explain to me why islamic crime and terrorists attack happen to west Europe, and not east?

I don't care that much about other countries. Sucks to be them.

If you care not about the lives of my people, why do you wish to tell me what would be best for my country in your opinion? Let us deal with the invaders how we want.

 

[JU 199]

@Male Idiot

Assuming the entire world values what you value is quite... autistic and American.

1) I'm British
2) It's not that I'm saying Islamic terrorism isn't a giant problem. What I am arguing is that in practical terms a military dictatorship is terrible and would lead to negative consequences that dwarf Islamic terrorism in the longrun.

The thinking of "America is the world, we know the only right, and we must educate others by force no matter what they want" is what started the whole trouble in the middle east and what made the SJWs and the self-destructive liberals.

This is the autism I was talking about. America's expansionist view of itself has many different origin points and is a very complicated topic. It's not wise to say " X is the SJW of Y" or 'this was caused by SJWs'. That's using a very simplistic lens (based on internet culture most people don't care about) to look at a problem as big as Islamic terrorism or US expansionism.

 

[AnOminous]

But then again, I also don't want to die in a hurricane or a tornado, or a subway tunnel collapse.

The subway tunnel collapse scenario is vastly more likely if you have decades of corrupt, incompetent government refusing to do maintenance on basic infrastructure. So is dying of a flood in a hurricane because a levee bursts.

The actual events aren't controllable, but their results can be mitigated. If you have a competent government.

 

[Marvin]

First, you assume that I abide by US morality. Why do you think I am a supporter of democracy to begin with? For all you know, I could be a supporter of oligarchy, theocracy or any other goverment forms. Perhaps I want to be ruled by a bunny in a funny hat.
Assuming the entire world values what you value is quite... autistic and American.
Rational depends on the value one puts on certain things.

For some, these things are different than what, lets say, our robot loving friend, Ass Manager belives in. He is totally cool to have his opinion, it is his basic right, and I respect him for telling me his opinion to my "face" . However, not everybody will always agree.

The thinking of "America is the world, we know the only right, and we must educate others by force no matter what they want" is what started the whole trouble in the middle east and what made the SJWs and the self-destructive liberals.

No, I don't assume that. I know that American style first amendment rights don't work everywhere.

However, I consider that to be a failing of the country in question, not a failing of freedom. If your country can't handle freedom, your country has a problem. I would imagine that a country that can't tolerate freedom is inhabited by intellectual children who cry salty baby tears because they can't tolerate dissent in a mature manner.

It is perfectly rational that you can not comprehend nor understand the jihadi threat, nor be willing to pay whatever unseemly price is needed to survive.

A year ago I would have laughed at the arabs with you and would have known no fear. Now I fear quite a lot and I think that you can't appreciate the threat if you are not facing it.
The USA is not facing this threat, may Freedom Eagle bless the Atlantic for that, and the memory of 9/11 is just a fading old smoke, its lesson forgotten in blissful ignorance.

Oh pfft, my country is rich, capable and has a shitload of people. I'm a drop in the bucket. As noted before, I'm aware terrorist actions can happen. I remember 9/11. I'm from the DC area. I just didn't care that much about it. I'm much, much more likely to get hit by a car and die than to die in a terrorist attack. And most of our terrorist attacks are from right wing, anti-government dipshits anyway.

You say that it is a temporary threat. Islam is not a temporary threat. It has been waging war on us for five hundred years. If you keep all muslims out of your country, you can actually control terrorist threats. You can take my word for it, or we can google the history.

But if I'm an irrational raving madman, please explain to me why islamic crime and terrorists attack happen to west Europe, and not east?

I actually have a very good theory about why eastern Europe doesn't deal with this bullshit. I was in Moscow recently, and one thing I noted was the high number of asian, muslim immigrants. Russia is an incredibly diverse country. They inherited the Mongol empire.

My theory is that Russia has experience with handling a diverse population. They know what works and what doesn't. On the other hand, other parts of Europe, like Scandinavia and Germany, have no clue how to handle a complex, multicultural population. So in response to huge amounts of immigration, they're just going to yoyo back and forth between far left cuckfests and far right neonazis for decades before figuring out the right balance.

If you care not about the lives of my people, why do you wish to tell me what would be best for my country in your opinion? Let us deal with the invaders how we want.

Oh, go for it. Just saying, enjoy your decades of dictatorships. Are the few thousand lives saved going to be worth a generation of oppression?

The subway tunnel collapse scenario is vastly more likely if you have decades of corrupt, incompetent government refusing to do maintenance on basic infrastructure. So is dying of a flood in a hurricane because a levee bursts.

The actual events aren't controllable, but their results can be mitigated. If you have a competent government.

Heh, yeah, this is true.

 

[Male Idiot]

Ass Manager, you are right, I'm making things simple. I doubt this forum and us forumgoers are educated and well informed enough for a very deep analysis of all factors involved.

Marvin, I have to say that perhaps the years of Chris's presence has rubbed off a little bit of naive on you. I'm sorry to offend you like this.

I know that the USA is mighty, and that it will not be an easy target like Europe.

Your opinion on great American Freedom is your very right, I just don't think it is true. But than again I have a very cynical and nihilistic view of people. Could be I'm wrong or we are both wrong, so lets agree to disagree.

I was talking more about the Visegrad countries than Russia, but let me quote a security expert from TV ( I know, tv is not reliable) "If they (muslims) did that in Russia, they would have been shot on the streets."
Which is what I think why Russia has no such troubles, as they are a brutal dictatorship.
Anyway I was talking about the former soviet countries that declined to allow migrants in and are thus kebab free and don't suffer their depredations. I think there is a valid link between islamic migrants and terrorism/rape, and the situation seems to be proving me right.

I know a few thousand lives matter not to the USA and its citizens. Your country is huge, rich and has plenty of children. Our entire population is half of that of New York city's, and what we have had for the last few decades was corruption and nepotism under the glory of democracy and freedom. Recent statistics say that the US looses 2,5 million citizens a year, that's 1/4 of all hungarians.
I do not wish to devalue the lives of all American citizens, but the country itself can take casaulities that would devastate most european nation and shrug it off easily, like the mighty industrial juggernaut it is.

Forgive me if this does not give me fond memories of it. So yes, a few thousand lives will be well worth it, and if I have to give up some privilages to save my fellow people, it would be selfish of me not to give up a few privilages for it.
You can chalk this up to cultural differences, different values placed on the individual and the community, autism, me trolling, etc.

Yet I hope we can agree that the sooner this situation is solved and the sooner muslim immigrants are turned back, the less things will get out of control, whenever we worry about terrorists or right wingers.