March 21st Jihad attack on Brussels

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No you've advocated Tom Clancy Fanfic operations to solve the crisis instead.

Except we've already deployed 200 commandos in Iraq because the people in charge of figuring out the best way to deal with them is that way.

Other ex-Special Forces members have come out and said that between 200-300 of our best and brightest is all it would take to destroy them:
http://www.ijreview.com/2015/02/252...-gives-advise-just-300-marines-can-take-isis/

It's ridiculous to claim that it's 'Tom Clancy fan fiction' when this is literally what the Obama administration is doing right now
http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/01/22/what-can-200-u-s-commandos-actually-accomplish-in-iraq/

The problem is that, like everything they do, they are going half-measure. You never go half-measure.
 
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My heart goes out to the families who were affected by this :( this sucks really bad.
 
Yeah I don't agree with everything that he's saying, but ISIS is not a threat that we can't destroy. It's not even a threat that would require a thousand boots on the ground, if only we had the mettle to go through with it.

Honestly if we know certain roads are only used by ISIS fighters I'm 100% behind laying land mines and shit. Yeah we shouldn't blanket mines all over the place, but this is a valid tactic against military targets.

Anyway the point is that this could easily be done. A team of 20 US Special Forces could decimate hundreds of ISIS fighters in a couple of hours, then go on to play a round of golf later that afternoon. These guys are fucking amateurs who are only able to do what they are doing because they don't have any real opposition.

Estimates vary (because no nation comments on the number of special forces deployments) but there are currently 200+ US, French and UK SPECFOR within Syria and Iraq, acting as reconnaissance and forward air control. They are also there to confirm targets are where they say they are by the Mark 1 eyeball. They aren't there to engage because the number of fighters varies enormously, with some estimates for just I.S as low as 35,000 and as high as 200,000 for the amount of turf they've been able to hold. We genuinely don't know how many of the black-wearing gits there are.

The Kurds asked for months just to get a bit of air support so they could retake Sinjar. Apparently we couldn't afford to bomb more than 7 targets a day. The one time we said yes, they retook the whole city in 24 hours. They say they could do that for all of Kurdistan.

This should be a cakewalk, it's not, and it's infuriating.

Ok, time to let you into an open secret. Yeah we could. Within a month we could bring the might of NATO to bare on the I.S and crush them within weeks.

But we're not going to.

Islamic State's existence is very convenient for the Western World for numerous reasons. Much like Al Qaeda before it, the Islamic State is acting as a rallying flag for all of the nut jobs we're stuck with inside our own borders that, like many of us, grew up with the Afghan and Iraq wars as a background but rather than seeing it as the tragic waste of blood and treasure it was, they see it as a slight against Islam itself.

They're a tiny minority (in the tens of thousands at most) but they're there and they're bloody dangerous. Islamic State has, since 2013 been sending out a siren call to these people, sending them off to an area where it's pretty much a free-for-all CoD-esque paradise.

They can be killed by any number of Western backed proxies, reduced to chunks and paste by airstrikes, other islamic groups, or even the Chinless Wonder himself, Bashar-al-Assad and his Iranian and Russian backed proxies.

In other words, they go to fight the war out there, so we don't fight it on the streets here.

Paris and Brussels attacks included, we've had a grand total of two Islamic State attacks here in "The West" with under 200 casualties versus the quagmire of the middle east (250,000 and rising killed), where they actually need new bodies to throw at problems. Simple, cold and very hard facts.

It's also whittling down the various Caucasus Mercenary groups that sprung up after the second Chechen War and they're about as reliable as mercs have been through history (to the point we've stopped reporting so-called 'defections') as these groups (who could move on to any other future conflict zone) are slaughtered by one group or another.

The best part is? This plan is actually working.

Islamic State is now having to send out increasingly younger soldiers to the front lines, because their casualty rate is fucking terrible. Pictures of them "training the next generation" are being sold this way, but they were already resorting to 16 and 17 year olds six months ago and this process will get increasingly worse as the toll of lost territory, arms, money and food continues to bite.

The officer-corps (such as it is) remains dangerous but are being slowly closed in on by those SPECFOR soldiers acting as Forward Air Command, hence why so many of them fled to Libya (where it's believed about 50-100 western SPECFOR currently are).

Iraq and Afghanistan proved that there's no shortcuts in modern warfare, doubly so when dealing with fanatics. A lot of Western thinking (certainly of this political generation) is heavily influenced by the works of Blair and Bush which means that an invasion, while a quicker route initially, has to be backed up by enormously expensive and much better planning for peace.

Now, the smart way, is to accept the expense and to follow the same route as previous successful peace operations when rebuilding a country, this worked for Germany post-war and worked on some levels for the collapse of Yugoslavia; The Middle Men (the people that actually ensure a country runs) should be kept in place regardless of political affiliation and largely forgiven for any instructions they carried out, this didn't happen in Iraq (because Bush pursued a disastrous policy of De-Ba'athification and Afghanistan (because the last functional government was sometime back in the 70s).

The problem is, this approach is really fucking expensive.

The current and "cheaper" option is to try and allow local forces to do this naturally. This started to show promise in Libya until factions of the TNC broke apart into their respective governments, Libya Dawn (who basically hold everything of worth, including the Libyan Coastguard, and the TNG, which still has western backing in spite of the fact they can barely hold Tobruk.

Basically, it will be into the next political generation to find the more level response after going too far previously and not far enough this time around.
 
The Kurds asked for months just to get a bit of air support so they could retake Sinjar. Apparently we couldn't afford to bomb more than 7 targets a day. The one time we said yes, they retook the whole city in 24 hours. They say they could do that for all of Kurdistan.

I got mad enough in your first paragraph I ignored the rest of your post and just responded to that.

But this is one I agree with. If there is one morally reprehensible thing we've failed to do it is not supporting the Kurds, who are maybe the one single ethnic/national group in the region who doesn't hate us and even shares our values.

We have fucked those guys since Saddam.

Why don't we support them?

Oh, yeah. Turkey.
 
These ISIS faggots are an army, not The Cell. Bin Laden never wanted to hold territory, and never did. Thus, the warfare of attrition via drones and bombing simply does not work against ISIS. We need men, armor, and artillery to recapture the territory they've taken and hold it.

You cannot rely on the incompetent or ill-equipped Middle Eastern militias and militaries to do the job, either. This is something we have to do ourselves, and the sooner we resign ourselves to this, the better.
 
They just arrested 3 other terrorists in Belgium near Rosenheim who were supposedly on their way to perpetrate another attack.

@Sc4rface I don't think anyone in this thread has advocate any kind of sizable Western/NATO ground offensive so far.
I kinda did. Atleast I'm hoping for it.
Notice I said "world" back then and not "Murica!"

As for how and if it would be done and financed.. That's out of my area of knowledge.
I just think we all, on account on being humans, know and recognise that there is a point were cost and reason cease to be an issue when it comes to conflict. WWII comes to mind.
Now i'm not saying that point has been reached, far from it. But when regular, civil people of Belgium cant be safe, in Europe, this day and age... That's just sad.
 
Estimates vary (because no nation comments on the number of special forces deployments) but there are currently 200+ US, French and UK SPECFOR within Syria and Iraq, acting as reconnaissance and forward air control. They are also there to confirm targets are where they say they are by the Mark 1 eyeball. They aren't there to engage because the number of fighters varies enormously, with some estimates for just I.S as low as 35,000 and as high as 200,000 for the amount of turf they've been able to hold. We genuinely don't know how many of the black-wearing gits there are.

I know that, that's why I said very specifically that we need to unleash them. Right now they are not. They are doing very basic and unobtrusive shit with highly restricted and bullshit ROE. We need to just let them wreck shit up, which is what they do best.

As far as the number of ISIS troops, yeah it might reach as high as 200,000 but they have a very high desertion rate when the going gets rough. A lot of the fighters are in it for the perks, slaves & booty and shit, but the second shit hits the fan they want to leave. ISIS has started to kill anyone who leaves an active warzone, USSR style, in order to try and quell that.

If we go at them hard enough, the number of actual fighters will melt. They don't have the resolve and they don't have the training. We can beat them fucking easily.

I'll read/comment the rest of your Tolstoy when I'm done with my coffee & find my reading glasses.

Basically, it will be into the next political generation to find the more level response after going too far previously and not far enough this time around.

I think that for the most part, you are spot on when it comes to your assertion, at the very least what we think is happening and what's the best way this can turn out for us.

Problem is, every single damn time the West take a step back and think 'Uh, this is working for us, let's not interfere' it comes back to bite us in the ass ten times harder down the line. Putting shit on the back-burner/hoping its mostly gonna go away on its on has only fucked us.

Let's remember: the Surge worked. The situation in Iraq was under control. If Obama had no withdrawn the troops from Iraq, no one would have any idea who that small 'Daesh' group fighting in Syria amongst all of those other groups even is. Can any of you even name one of the other groups fighting in Syria aside from the FSA?

The IS caliphate is not going away, and the longer we wait the harder its gonna become for us to root it out, the more Christians, Kurds and Yazidis will die due to their genocide, and the more terror attacks will happen in the West.

Simply put, we need to crush them mercilessly, and we need to do it fucking yesterday. Which, as you pointed out, we can do in a matter of a couple of weeks.
 
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Let's remember: the Surge worked. The situation in Iraq was under control. If Obama had no withdrawn the troops from Iraq, no one would have any idea who that small 'Daesh' group fighting in Syria amongst all of those other groups even is. Can any of you even name one of the other groups fighting in Syria aside from the FSA?

You see there's the problem. The west didn't understand 'IRAQ' and we never have, even when we were designing the country. It's completely artificial and the British didn't bother taking into account how much local tribes hated each other when the artificial state lines were drawn. The whole region should be broken up into smaller chunks that the tribes can keep to themselves in. IRAQ doesn't have to exist, so why prop it up longer with a surge that the local government didn't want by drawdown time anyway?

we can do in a matter of a couple of weeks.

That's highly optimistic.
 
You see there's the problem. The west didn't understand IRAQ and we never have, even when we were designing the country. It's completely artificial and the British didn't bother taking into account how much local tribes hated each other when the state lines were drawn.

Don't forget the added stunt of carving out this imaginary country "Kuwait" solely to deprive the newly created Iraq of even having a port on the Gulf.

So you have an oil country which you deliberately fucked out of even having a port to ship their one product out of, solely to humiliate that country.

Then act amazed that the people in that country don't fucking like you that much after that fuck job.
 
You see there's the problem. The west didn't understand IRAQ and we never have, even when we were designing the country. It's completely artificial and the British didn't bother taking into account how much local tribes hated each other when the state lines were drawn. The whole region should be broken up into smaller chunks that the tribes can keep to themselves in. IRAQ doesn't have to exist, so why prop it up longer with a surge that the local government didn't want by drawdown time anyway?

Hindsight is 20/20. However you can't break up the country now into three different countries based on ethnic lines because it will not be viable. The Kurdish regions are basically Iraq's granary, and they are oil rich. The rest of the country would immediately become failed states and declare war against the Kurdish country anyway. Also Turkey and Iran would never allow that country to exist. And most likely Iran would immediately move to annex the Shiite country, and possibly the Kurdish one as well.

We can't deal with what ifs, only with what's happening.

That's highly optimistic.

Not my personal estimation, but according to most military strategist and others who know what they are talking bout. Remember, we destroyed the Iraqi army in under what, three weeks? They were much bigger, much more equipped and better trained than ISIS by a factor of 20

Don't forget the added stunt of carving out this imaginary country "Kuwait" solely to deprive the newly created Iraq of even having a port on the Gulf.

Uh no that's not what happened at all. That's Iraqi propaganda, the kind of shit Saddam used to say but is not actually rooted in reality.

Kuwait was an independent city-state that was highly important to the Persian gulf trading routes more than 300 years before Iraq was even created. It had never been part of Iraq, and always its own thing. They constantly clashed with the Ottoman central authority because they wanted independence and nothing to do with them. They were under British protectorate as an independent state more than 30 years before Iraq was even carved out of the surrounding states.
 
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Not my personal estimation, but according to most military strategist and others who know what they are talking bout. Remember, we destroyed the Iraqi army in under what, three weeks? They were much bigger, much more equipped and better trained than ISIS by a factor of 20

The Iraqi Army was shit. Guess what? The actual people living in Iraq were way more dangerous than the idiot army of Saddam.

How quickly did we conquer the Viet Cong?

Oh yeah, we didn't.
 
Hindsight is 20/20. However you can't break up the country now into three different countries based on ethnic lines because it will not be viable. The Kurdish regions are basically Iraq's granary, and they are oil rich. The rest of the country would immediately become failed states and declare war against the Kurdish country anyway. Also Turkey and Iran would never allow that country to exist. And most likely Iran would immediately move to annex the Shiite country, and possibly the Kurdish one as well.

We can't deal with what ifs, only with what's happening.

But simply setting up the old status quo isn't viable either. Iraq will simply fail again because those ethnic contradictions are present.


Remember, we destroyed the Iraqi army in under what, three weeks?

Because that worked out so well in the long run? You're suggesting we occupy that country indefinitely. I don't think that'll work.

Anyway here's some more news

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We were actually winning the Vietnam war and would have conquered the North. We "lost" Vietnam because of propaganda and lies on the home front, not because of what was actually happening there. We could have steamrolled North Korea and easily be done by 69/early 70 if we had followed through. We actually won the Tet offensive, for starters.

But let's not get off-topic and remember just who the fuck we're fighting:

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Seeing as how there was so much off topic discussion of military brutality going on in this thread I made a new thread to discuss it
https://kiwifarms.net/threads/military-ethics.18640/
 
This is why I actually happen to agree with Trump's proposed moratorium on Muslim immigration and I think that European countries are way overdue on doing the same thing, because even if most Muslims pouring into Europe aren't terrorists, they still have such horrendously low IQs (especially among Somalis) that they don't know how to function in more advanced societies and choose to live off of welfare instead of seeking employment while reproducing like rabbits at the same time, and to make matters worse when they commit violent crimes and sexually assault women and children, the police refuse to take action and the news media covers it up simply because they don't want to be labeled as "racist" (see Rotherham, Champagne, and Sweden's supremely high rape rate for more details)
 
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