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Let me get this straight... Timetwister, a literal P9 card, is legal in Commander, but Sylvan Primordial and Primeval Titan are not???
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Timetwister was always the weakest of the power 9 and isn't nearly as powerful without all the crazy stuff to abuse it with, and with it being a singleton format. Meanwhile people in commander already don't like the stuff green can pull off, because green is pushed so hard it can do almost everything.
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Timetwister never belonged in the P9 anymore than Wheel of fortune(In fact with graveyard play, I'm willing to say fortune is better.). Timetwister is not that good of a card for blue all things considered. It immediately provides a card disadvantage with +1 to your opponent and leaves you with 3 less mana until next turn. That can be devastating to a blue player up against red or green midrange.
The Moxen, Lotus, Dark ritual(With Mana filtering) and time walk are what make multiple copies of Timetwister a problem. In a Singleton format, you can't timetwister a timetwister in your graveyard which makes going infinite much more difficult than standard. Where you could.
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They had to have something to push the set and they didn't want to be too obvious by making it a mythic. Besides, it's a modern Horizons set so its rare is allowed to be a standard set mythic.
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Though the weakest of the P9, it's still on another level of insanely busted compared to virtually every other card ever printed. Being the worst of the best is still ridiculously good. Green being pushed is a more recent development. It's probably the fourth weakest color, with white being the weakest. U > B > R > G > W is how I'd rank the colors' power
Twister is likely the best combo card ever printed. Non-combo decks don't play it. The reshuffle effect is much better than it reads since it allows you to redraw spent rituals and draw spells. Don't be fooled by the fact it's symmetrical since symmetrical effects are historically very broken. Think Show and Tell or Blood Moon. Even though the effect is symmetrical, if you built your deck around it and your opponent didn't, it's not really all that symmetrical. A deck that resolves Twister against a non-blue deck almost always wins the game that same turn.
Additionally, Wheel isn't better because it's not blue, and therefore can't pitch to Force of Will.
Though it is possible to cast Twister multiple times in a game, it is not legal as a 4-of in any format that isn't kitchen table casual. It's banned in Legacy and restricted in Vintage.
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Timetwister is a wheel, it's a good wheel, but it isn't Time Walk compared to other extra turn spells good. People who want a wheel in eternal formats mostly just cast Days Undoing or Echo of Eons which are nearly the same card. You almost never need 2 wheels to win the game if you broke symmetry on it with Narset or whatever.
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Timetwister isn't all that strong, hell it isn't even the strongest card with that effect and it isn't in Vintage Cube, Time Spiral is the wheel you are thinking of being Power Nine Level.
Sylvan Primordial and Prime Time are absurdly powerful cards and will only get stronger as time goes by and we get more Overpowered Lands (with Forest as a type for Primordial).
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Replying to the initial comment: the only point of life that matters is the last.
As for the edit? Primordial is more likely to get dumb because WOTC cannot balance lands.
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Primordial only gets forests, Right now about the most broken thing it does is get 3 Surveil lands.
Prime Time gets everything, that got banned before the billion Utility lands we have now
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I'll blame the booze; I meant Prime Time.
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Though extremely powerful, Time Spiral is nowhere near as good as Timetwister. Costing double and exiling itself are serious drawbacks. Untapping your lands is very strong but requiring a 6 mana investment before you do it is a LOT.
Despite being legal in Legacy, the only deck that plays Spiral in Legacy is one of the High Tide variants.
Despite being unrestricted in Vintage, Spiral is rarely seen. Whereas Timetwister (restricted) is seen often. It's in most combo decks as well as control/midrange decks that include some combination of Narset and/or Bowmasters and/or Hullbreacher.
When I look at the EDH banlist, I can see why some cards are banned... the P9, very strong legendary creatures (since they're basically your 8th card in your opening hand), things restricted in Vintage/banned in Legacy, Trade Secrets, Limited Resources, and Hullbreacher.
When I see shit like Sylvan Primordial, Primeval Titan, Sundering Titan, Upheaval, Biorhythm, and Sway of the Stars are banned, I wonder why cards like Vampiric Tutor, Demonic Tutor, Sol Ring, Atraxa, Grand Unifier, Thassa's Oracle, Demonic Consultation, Yawgmoth's Will, etc aren't.
Primeval Titan is damn good. It still sees play in Modern (and some very fringe Legacy play) even after all these years, mainly in Amulet Titan but also in Scapeshift (if anyone still plays that deck). But you can't tell me that it's worthy of being banned when a card like Yawgmoth's Will isn't.
Sylvan Primordial is a joke and sees literally zero play, as evidenced by its cost being near-bulk. It's only good for EDH, yet is banned there because the retards that only play EDH think it's too strong.
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EDH Committee banned stuff back before WotC dedicated themselves to completely dicking up the format and as a result there are a lot of bad cards banned because they didn't like the play pattern and like all of the formats they are deathly allergic to unbanning shit. Coalition Victory for example is cringe but basically any interaction can fizzle it and if your entire pod is tapped out at least it's mercifully quick as opposed to non-deterministic combos ending in Thassa's Oracle.
I wish they split ban list into EDH and CEDH and went much more aggressive in banning in the former.
I wish they split ban list into EDH and CEDH and went much more aggressive in banning in the former.
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Neither Timetwister or TimeSpiral show up in Vintage at all anymore, the only Meta Deck that runs TimeTwister is a Standstill deck that is basically non existent in the meta.
TimeSpiral costing more mana but untapping lands was a very important thing for the Storm decks as it meant that you could have extra mana for your storm turns, but Bolas Citadel replaced it.
That is why I went to Vintage Cube because it is the only format that either one is remotely seeing real play in.
Sylvan Primordial is incredibly powerful when you have 3 opponents, you are getting a 6/8 destroying 3 permanents and getting 3 (Non Basic Forest) lands. It is a massive swing in board presence even when it was banned and Lands have only gotten better since then, like I said..Sylvan Primordial can be "Destroy 3 Non-creature permanents, get 3 lands and Surveil 3" now.
On an enter the battlefield ability..for 7 mana compared to Ulamog the Ceaseless Hunger who is 10, doesn't ramp you and only gets 2 permanents..and can't be cheated in, that is Card Advantage on Par with what Atraxa will often do.
And it will only has and will get stronger, lets all be glad that green has had bad luck when it comes to Utility lands but they will accidentally print one that isn't trash.
Prime Time is one of the singular longest running decks in the Modern Meta, and directly gets more powerful every single set that exists because every single set has Utility lands of some sort now, Even if you ignore Field of the Dead from the Equation you can still grab Thespian Stage and any card that is really good with it like Lotus Field or Dark Depths.
Or if you really hate your play group, Get that new Talon Gate card, Phase out your Prime Time and then get Glacial Chasm so they can't damage you for the turn that way your Titan gets to attack.
Primeval Titan is more than Damn Good a mistake card that should have gotten Banned back before Modern Horizons became a thing and is basically the only Pre-Modern creature that can stand as the center stage of a Modern Deck post Modern Horizons, and is one of two decks from Pre-Modern Horizon's era that didn't get a direct infusion of cards (I am talking about Tron) that can compete with those decks.
The other is Burn.
Sundering Titan is banned because it's trigger goes off on both entering and exiting so you can blink the shit out of it
Upheval is banned because it resets the game (And really shit like Tatyova and Aesei do not fucking need the ability to repuke all the lands)
Biorhythm can be a very sudden win out of no-where with a single card.
Sway of the stars like upheval is banned because it effectively resets the game
Vampiric Tutor is marginal in commander, you give up a card to get one. It is good but not amazing
Demonic Tutor isn't that great outside of Combo, like you should play it because it gets you what you need..but adding 2 Mana cost to the best spell you can get in that moment isn't the most mindblowing thing on the planet.
Sol Ring should have been banned but Sheldon was a faggot who never had the ballsack to do it.
Atraxa is a dumb card, but she isn't the most obnoxious 7 Drop in the game (Toxril says howdy)
I have already said Oracle shoudl be banned in every format
Consultation isn't an issue without Oracle
Yawgwill is good in storm and that is about it, and its not even really the best of it's class because Past in Flames exists and can be cast from Graveyard.
I just wish they would have the balls to kick shit like Oracle, Crypt and Sol Ring out, like are CEDH players really gonna cry if you make them play games that don't end on turn 3?
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Ral's gonna have something bloom in his burrow.
It's a highly infectious auto immune disease
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I used to play Vintage back in the day and while most decks did their best to exploit the Power 9, most didn't include Twister unless it was a combo deck that really wanted the effect and even then there were other options. Even mono brown builds like Stax would sometimes splash for Recall and Walk, but never even looked at Twister.
The only reason Twister is on the list is because early on people had real biases towards it because it was blue and did things that spooked players. Really time Vault should be in its place, but the reason its not is it had multiple changes including a period where untapping it in any way at all made you skip a turn.
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I mean, Sol Ring should be in the Power Nine if anything takes Twister's place, like if you are cubing and it is Pack 1 Pick 1 and you have to choose between Sol Ring and Black Lotus..you Choose Sol Ring.
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Leovold wheel deserved to be cast into the fire.
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That tracks. From what I saw on mtgtop8 combo still plays it but now control and midrange play it too. Most recent results are from June 22nd. Both paper and MTGO events.
Dimir, Esper, Grixis, and Sultai were the archetypes. Bowmasters is a hell of a card.