Magic The Gathering

[Ebonic Tutor]

Let's pretend, just for a moment, that we aren't consoomers with bad impulse spending control. You spend $40 on a preconstructed deck, then you sit down next to a guy whose first two turns are:
Polluted Delta -> Underground Sea -> Vampiric Tutor / Watery Grave -> Mana Crypt -> Talisman of Dominance -> Thoracle -> Consultation -> Force of Will

You think most of us haven't dealt with that before in the past? Like like get the fuck over it for real, don't be a bitch and just get the fuck over it if you don't wanna spend the money that's fine find a group that lets you play with proxies. Otherwise it's like golf, it costs money to play, suck it the fuck up.

People with your type of mentality are why we can't have cards with big tits / controversial images on them anymore, cause the people that whine about getting their asses kicked by older players encourage wotc to do the stupid shit they have been doing for the last 5-8 years.

So no, I didn't read any of your autistic rant cause I can tell where it's going, you want to be coddled and not learn / respect the game. If Magic would have actually gatekept the game a bit better I suspect a lot of the problems wouldn't be there, it's just woke fags saw it as a good nerd vector.

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

Polluted Delta -> Underground Sea -> Vampiric Tutor / Watery Grave -> Mana Crypt -> Talisman of Dominance -> Thoracle -> Consultation -> Force of Will

Yeah that is a silly play line..and two of those cards should have been banned ages ago but the Commander RC are a bunch of cowardly soylent drinking faggots who take it in the ass from Black Aragorn.

 

[Ebonic Tutor]

Yeah that is a silly play line..and two of those cards should have been banned ages ago but the Commander RC are a bunch of cowardly soylent drinking faggots who take it in the ass from Black Aragorn.

I neverminded labman or even Jace:WoM that much cause it was easy enough to stop, Thoracle combo is probably the one thing I would say deserves to get yeeted just cause of how much more difficult to interact with.

If the win trigger on oracle was dependent on it still being alive I wouldn't care as much, but with it being a part of the trigger it just makes it stupid.

 

[Rich Evans Ayypologist]

If you are just playing lands, mana rocks, a thing here and there, and then just suddenly go off one turn, that's not being the archenemy, that's just surprising people. The term "archenemy" means the table gets at least one go-round to recognize, "oh snap, somebody do something about that guy."

Even if three other players in a casual pod recognize that the fourth player is going to do a 2-card combo on turn 3, it's very unlikely that you can stop the guy by ganging up on him if the list is tuned. When any other strategy in the game becomes the archenemy, it has to leverage overwhelming advantage against three other people to win; combo just has to pull off its one-two without getting disrupted, which is a lot easier.

In cEDH, this isn't a problem because everyone at the table will either be packing counterspells, tutor hate, or hilarious gotchas like Angel's Grace, which blanks (for example) the thoracle combo and leaves the guy doing it dead to rights. This is usually when the austere, wizened, mature, humble pubstomper slams his fists on the table and kicks a chair before getting thrown out, I should add.

Without being able to flip at instant speed Face Down cards are all just kind of trash.

Eh, I mean, the best morphs in the set don't really ambush. Dog Walker and the thopter guy's main points are just to make the tokens and let you play a 2-drop on 4. The centaur thing that dies into a 2/2 is worse than it looks, and the big green things usually want to trade off in the early turns to stop the aggro player.

Of course, when the +2/+2 trick and On The Job both cantrip, midrange and control strategies do have a harder time in this format. Simic is surprisingly good at the moment because it's underdrafted. Avoid Dimir at all costs - barely an archetype, and what is there doesn't work. Just splash for the mind control or drag the canal. That card always runs late because UB is a terrible color pair, but the card itself is crazy value.

Yeah that is a silly play line..and two of those cards should have been banned ages ago but the Commander RC are a bunch of cowardly soylent drinking faggots who take it in the ass from Black Aragorn.

I have no issue with thoracle when it's played in a competitive setting - there's very few cards I think need to be banned there, even. I'm more in favor of splitting off casual and competitive, so you could have thoracle-consultation banned in casual, but kosher in competitive.

I'm of the radical opinion that flash-hulk is also fine in competitive, because competitive players can shell out for trickbind and stifle and tidebinder if it really bothers them so much. It'd mean that cEDH would drift to further blue dominance, but it's already just "legacy for people who can't compete in legacy."

Like like get the fuck over it for real, don't be a bitch and just get the fuck over it if you don't wanna spend the money that's fine find a group that lets you play with proxies. Otherwise it's like golf, it costs money to play, suck it the fuck up.

Is all of this coming from you being salty that people ask you not to pubstomp precons? Because it's looking a lot like this is salt coming from people asking you to not pubstomp precons.

cEDH is a fucking boring 100-card format. I could proxy, but I find that format boring and repetitive. So I don't play it.
When someone like you waddles in with a $1000 Kenrith Goodstuff, I'm under no obligation to sit through your hot masturbation session.

People with your type of mentality are why we can't have cards with big tits / controversial images on them anymore, cause the people that whine about getting their asses kicked by older players encourage wotc to do the stupid shit they have been doing for the last 5-8 years.

I genuinely do not know where this rant is coming from.
I'm choosing to play a game the way I prefer to play the game, by excluding antisocial weirdos looking to pubstomp from casual play, and thus I'm responsible for no boobplate?
Invoke Prejudice was 30 years ago, dude. I know it's funny, but they haven't been putting the KKK on cards for 30 years. I drop crusade regularly and no-one gives a shit.

So no, I didn't read any of your autistic rant cause I can tell where it's going, you want to be coddled and not learn / respect the game.

I'm very sorry that you have almost no-one to play the game with when they aren't compelled to in a tournament setting, but have you tried not being an antisocial weirdo who flies off the cuff about THOSE WOKE BASTARDS when someone asks why you dropped a mana crypt at a 4-5 level pod? You never know; it might work.

 

[Abella]

I neverminded labman or even Jace:WoM that much cause it was easy enough to stop, Thoracle combo is probably the one thing I would say deserves to get yeeted just cause of how much more difficult to interact with.

If the win trigger on oracle was dependent on it still being alive I wouldn't care as much, but with it being a part of the trigger it just makes it stupid.

Couldn’t you stifle the win trigger? I couldn’t imagine exiling your whole library with dcon and then dropping thoracle only for it to be stifled and you just have to sit there and accept that you’ve lost.

 

[Ebonic Tutor]

I'm very butthurt about losing at a card game

> this rant

Nigga you the one that's putting 8 paragraph posts up whining about getting your ass kicked in commander. I bet everybody (even the faggots that only like battlecruiser EDH) really loves playing with a whiny bitch like yourself.

 

[Danny.exe]

Couldn’t you stifle the win trigger? I couldn’t imagine exiling your whole library with dcon and then dropping thoracle only for it to be stifled and you just have to sit there and accept that you’ve lost.

Stifle effects work against Thoracle itself, but blue also has regular counterspells to combat against the combo. Other colors lack (good) ways to properly shut it down, which is the real problem. Its combos are incredibly simple, easy to protect, and forces other players to constantly keep up interaction, killing tempo and making it so even the potential of Thoracle combo being ready allows that player to advance in the game way more easily than anyone else.
Even if you only want to have a casual view on the card, this being a format of "staples bad" means that an auto-include combo in any Dimir+ deck is very "boring" and "unfun", to cite other casual ban reasons.

 

[Ebonic Tutor]

Stifle effects work against Thoracle itself, but blue also has regular counterspells to combat against the combo. Other colors lack (good) ways to properly shut it down, which is the real problem. Its combos are incredibly simple, easy to protect, and forces other players to constantly keep up interaction, killing tempo and making it so even the potential of Thoracle combo being ready allows that player to advance in the game way more easily than anyone else.

99% of the problem is killing oracle doesn't stop the effect, It's the reason I don't see much issue w/ Splinter Twin in modern other than it being everywhere when it was a thing.

 

[Flexo]

When any other strategy in the game becomes the archenemy, it has to leverage overwhelming advantage against three other people to win; combo just has to pull off its one-two without getting disrupted, which is a lot easier.

Player 1, about to combo...
Player 2:

Player 3:


Player 1:

In cEDH, this isn't a problem because everyone at the table will either be packing counterspells, tutor hate, or hilarious gotchas like Angel's Grace, which blanks (for example) the thoracle combo and leaves the guy doing it dead to rights. This is usually when the austere, wizened, mature, humble pubstomper slams his fists on the table and kicks a chair before getting thrown out, I should add.

I fail to see how this is any contradiction or counter to my point.

 

[Ebonic Tutor]

Player 1, about to combo...
Player 2:
View attachment 5743509
Player 3:
View attachment 5743515

Player 1:


I fail to see how this is any contradiction or counter to my point.

That's too complicated for Rich to think about, he just wants to run big monsters into each other for 3 hours I think.

 

[Oddjob OTP]

Couldn’t you stifle the win trigger? I couldn’t imagine exiling your whole library with dcon and then dropping thoracle only for it to be stifled and you just have to sit there and accept that you’ve lost.

Stifle is the goat, only problem is that it usually isn't maindeckable. Like in any format, anywhere, unless you plan to use it on your own triggers or it has a decent fallback. Like even stone raining people's fetches isn't quite enough to make it decent on it's own. The new 3/2 flash merfolk with stifle is great and almost maindeckable outside of flash decks and merfolk (and I guess Rhinos in modern). I maindeck stifles in Gearhulk Creativity in Pioneer because one of the 15 lines of text on Epiphany is a stifle and while it's a bad 6 mana stifle I still get up to some insane blue mage shit with it (although every other line of text is more consequential most of the time)

 

[Abella]

Stifle is the goat, only problem is that it usually isn't maindeckable. Like in any format, anywhere, unless you plan to use it on your own triggers or it has a decent fallback. Like even stone raining people's fetches isn't quite enough to make it decent on it's own. The new 3/2 flash merfolk with stifle is great and almost maindeckable outside of flash decks and merfolk (and I guess Rhinos in modern). I maindeck stifles in Gearhulk Creativity in Pioneer because one of the 15 lines of text on Epiphany is a stifle and while it's a bad 6 mana stifle I still get up to some insane blue mage shit with it (although every other line of text is more consequential most of the time)

I used to play it maindeck with RUG delver because you could hit a lot of targets back then. I think of it more as an emergency out, but even when it was maindecked it was used more to flip delver or cast a force of will.

Stifle effects work against Thoracle itself, but blue also has regular counterspells to combat against the combo. Other colors lack (good) ways to properly shut it down, which is the real problem. Its combos are incredibly simple, easy to protect, and forces other players to constantly keep up interaction, killing tempo and making it so even the potential of Thoracle combo being ready allows that player to advance in the game way more easily than anyone else.
Even if you only want to have a casual view on the card, this being a format of "staples bad" means that an auto-include combo in any Dimir+ deck is very "boring" and "unfun", to cite other casual ban reasons.

The nature of cEDH is a large part of why I like to stick to playing cubes. Auto includes and staples are going to always be a thing and you’d have to rule 0 any bans that aren’t already in place. The setup for any combo should be enough reason to switch targets, especially with problematic combos like that. You’re always going to have those moments where you have to decide whether or not doing something to break tempo and lose momentum is worth stopping another player from doing something that’s going to make the game state miserable.

 

[Rich Evans Ayypologist]

Nigga you the one that's putting 8 paragraph posts up whining about getting your ass kicked in commander. I bet everybody (even the faggots that only like battlecruiser EDH) really loves playing with a whiny bitch like yourself.

Unlike you, I can't say I've ever been asked to leave a store for having a chimpout, lol.

I have no problem with getting games, because most people play the game to have fun and socialize, which I don't think is your strong suite. Given, of course, that you started raging about THEM WOKE FAGGOTS because one guy on a forums board said he doesn't want people to pubstomp casual EDH games.

That's too complicated for Rich to think about, he just wants to run big monsters into each other for 3 hours I think.

I know it might be a little hard to imagine through the seethe, but you're spiking your blood pressure because people want to play a children's card game in a way you think you're too superior for. Maybe go outside and get a little exercise - poor hygiene might also be a reason you can't find people that want to play.

Again, I'm sincerely sorry that you became a known wallet warrior, people decided not to play with you, and the store owner informed you of the fact that you can't literally force them to.
I can see it hurt your feelings very much. I would say you'll get over it one day, but I'm really not sure.

Even if you only want to have a casual view on the card, this being a format of "staples bad" means that an auto-include combo in any Dimir+ deck is very "boring" and "unfun", to cite other casual ban reasons.

That's fundamentally why I really want the format to be split into two, and I don't think it's really good long-term of have a "rules committee" that sits on its ass doing fucking nothing.
Thoracle combos, Godo combos, Splinter-twins, and in my controversial take even flash-hulk combos aren't really an issue in cEDH, because decks are built explicitly with winning as their goal and they expressly take into account that other people will be running the same shit they are.

And seeing cards like Sylvan Primordial and Prime on the banlist are baffling - these cards are fine in the competitive scene, and would honestly make it more interesting. If stax and mld are extreme faux pas in casual pods, to the point of being de facto banned... what benefit is there in not expressly banning them from casual, but leaving them untouched in competitive? It was one thing when it was a niche format, but it's now arguably larger in reach than many or most of their 60-card formats combined. Competitive players shouldn't have to adhere to a casual banlist, nor should casuals have to put up with stasis being format-legal.

Player 1, about to combo...
Player 2:

If player 1 is about to combo into a player with seven open mana, that means that player one has interaction up. Often enough, more than one piece as well, since most (played) infinites are either very cheap or generate infinite resources anyways. The thoracle combo in particular doesn't care about rift: since it's "equal to," you bouncing their board and leaving them with 0 devotion to blue still means they win.

Even nonblue combo players will ensure they have some kind of interaction before playing into that much open mana. Dosan, Abolisher, Myrel, Conqueror's Flail, and Kutzil, Silence, and Mandate of Peace (enter combat, play it) are pretty common lockouts. It is five mana total to Silence, Witherbloom Apprentice, Chain of Smog.

I fail to see how this is any contradiction or counter to my point.

In a cEDH pod, a cEDH deck being the archenemy is a disadvantage. Not that this tends to happen - every cEDH can go off and win the game in a turn or two if unchecked, so you really don't have 3v1 scenarios.

In a casual pod, a cEDH deck being the archenemy is not a disadvantage, because a correctly-built cEDH deck can power through hate and comes online well before most casual decks do - precons, most tribal decks, politicking decks, grouphug decks etc. are all built with a theme in mind, and not necessarily towards winning as-quickly as-efficiently as possible.

 

[BlackDragoons]

*attempts Karlov Draft runs into an uncommon that shuts off the ability to flip face down cards 3 games in a row*

Oh fucking cool an uncommon that hoses the entire mechanic of the set. That's great, that will make Limited AMAZING

Karlov has been by far the weakest set they've released so far.


and by weak I mean its complete shit and forgettable.

 

[DOUBLE_WHEEL]

Karlov has been by far the weakest set they've released so far.


and by weak I mean its complete shit and forgettable.

I can't wait to read maro's coping on his Tumblr or in an article in a year or so.

 

[Oddjob OTP]

If you expect me to play a 2/2 with ward 2 on my turn 3 it and then spend 4-5-6 more mana to flip it it better flip into Atraxa with protection from everything and the collect evidence mechanic is SOMEHOW even worse. The set is only going to sell at all because of the rare land cycle for fetchland formats.

 

[Danny.exe]

That's fundamentally why I really want the format to be split into two, and I don't think it's really good long-term of have a "rules committee" that sits on its ass doing fucking nothing.
Thoracle combos, Godo combos, Splinter-twins, and in my controversial take even flash-hulk combos aren't really an issue in cEDH, because decks are built explicitly with winning as their goal and they expressly take into account that other people will be running the same shit they are.

And seeing cards like Sylvan Primordial and Prime on the banlist are baffling - these cards are fine in the competitive scene, and would honestly make it more interesting. If stax and mld are extreme faux pas in casual pods, to the point of being de facto banned... what benefit is there in not expressly banning them from casual, but leaving them untouched in competitive? It was one thing when it was a niche format, but it's now arguably larger in reach than many or most of their 60-card formats combined. Competitive players shouldn't have to adhere to a casual banlist, nor should casuals have to put up with stasis being format-legal.

EDH's biggest problem is the fact that they have both their own rules committee, and also push "Rule 0" as ultimate piece of the format. It's easy to have one or the other, but trying to run around with both results in a laughable banlist like the format has now. WotC has also done nothing but skew things further with a fuckton of design decisions being made specifically with EDH in mind, which is the reality of R&D no matter how Rosewater tries to spin it otherwise. EDH being a sanctioned and very actively supported format has been the death of any charm it might've had before, not only because of specially tailored cards and decks, but because it has brought in every single type of player ever thanks to it oppressing any other paper format when it comes to product and events.
So now in LGS play, you have people building powerful decks since they don't have any other outlet, mixing with people who insist on some random chaff from Ice Age block, and you can't actually Rule 0 anything because it's a sanctioned event following the one and only banlist you're allowed to use. I don't even figure trying to split the format would mean much, you have to find enough people that want to manage, that are qualified to manage it, and more than likely you'll need WotC to sigh off on it (they won't, because in-person and webcam cEDH play is full of playtest cards and other fakes.) We're in too deep for there to be an easy solution, if you ask me.

 

[PonderosaPete]

Eventually, if they make the mess big enough, no one will question Magic 2.

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

Couldn’t you stifle the win trigger? I couldn’t imagine exiling your whole library with dcon and then dropping thoracle only for it to be stifled and you just have to sit there and accept that you’ve lost.

You can but Stifle is kind of a narrow and terrible card, and having to run that because of the worst template mistake that WOTC has ever done is retarded. Cedh would be better without the degenerate stuff like Oracle and not worse, if you Yeet the stupid shit out of the format Cedh would be a fun format to actually watch as a tournament format...better than fucking Sheoldred and Rhinos forever.

Eh, I mean, the best morphs in the set don't really ambush.

No, put paying 6 Mana to Anticipate at sorcery speed is fucking trash and none of the Disguises are great if you are casting them as just vanillas, and "White is the best color already" just means the best color has access to a hoser for a major mechanic of the set at uncommon.

Also things that are annoying me about the set..the fucking "Utility lands" are all fucking shit. Bring back Crystal Grotto.

That's fundamentally why I really want the format to be split into two,

That is retarded because there is no actual way to define what is Cedh power level, and anyone who isn't a faggot should be wanting to tune their deck as much as they can without breaking the Thematics of the deck. Hulk isn't a problem, it was Flash Hulk automatically making it sac itself and instantly winning at next upkeep with Lab Man (it would use oracle now lol). If you have to set up the Hulk beforehand it's fine.

It's hilarious that you are sperging about 40 Dollar precons getting Crushed by Cedh..because if the 3 Cedh Decks police each other the 40 Dollar deck could pull out a win because Cedh Decks are Glass Canons and would Absolutely fold Ixahel or Abbadon precons which is how I built my high power deck..I have a pair of combos that can spike out on turn 3 like Cedh decks do..but I built it to be able to play the Midrange game as well.

It can't do much against Thoracle cause I don't run force of will..but fuck it if I lose to Thoracle I lose to Thoracle. It's like losing to turn 2 Blightsteel in Vintage Cube.

"Rule 0" as ultimate piece of the format.

Fuck Rule Zero, Sheldon deserved his cancer for inflicting that upon the format, it exists just so they can be Hypocrites about cards they like and Ban shit they personally don't like.

and the collect evidence mechanic is SOMEHOW even worse

At least the Evidence Signpost Uncommon* is so straight up broken that it will cover Collect Evidence being meh

*I am so fucking tired of this being a thing, can we not have every set be curated by stupid bullshit uncommons, half of which suck and the other half of which are obscenely strong in limited.

 

[BlackDragoons]

Doorkeeper Thrull is honestly a good answer to Thasa's Oracle.

It even has flash.