Magic The Gathering

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Lands are a second separate deck, usually 10-15 cards, you get one guaranteed land draw a turn by tapping your commander. Still possible to get somewhat color screwed, but never land screwed.
I'm not the biggest fan of that as it creates more set up complexity and just feels like an inelegant solution. I'd rather there be less decks/cards in zones when the game starts and things evolve in complexity as the game progresses.
 
I've heard of it but never really looked into it. I know they had a big bust with overprinting and stuff, but what did they do to fix the problem of flooding? WoW TCG basically made it so you could place any card face down as a land, but then had "quests" which were basically lands with a one time use ability. So for example, pay 1: Look at the top 2 cards, draw one. That way you never mana screwed but you still wanted to play lands as you'd otherwise exile useful resources.


As is normal for the Japanese based on all of the hentai I've seen.
Yeah WoW TCg stole their idea from the VS system which placed any card as a resource but locations worked like Quests. Dragonborne had something similar where each card could be a land of its color. (You'd play it upside down.)

But what @updoot farmer said. Land is a shuffled side deck.

Flesh & Blood as well as Marvel Champions both use a "hand burn" system. You pitch cards out of hand for resources.
 
Yeah WoW TCg stole their idea from the VS system which placed any card as a resource but locations worked like Quests. Dragonborne had something similar where each card could be a land of its color. (You'd play it upside down.)

But what @updoot farmer said. Land is a shuffled side deck.

Flesh & Blood as well as Marvel Champions both use a "hand burn" system. You pitch cards out of hand for resources.
That does make sense as I think some of the people who worked on VS ended up on the WoW TCG team. I never played VS but still have some WoW TCG stuff as I like it, probably because I played WoW back in the day.

I should really look into Flesh and Blood, I've glanced at it and it's growing like crazy, but I don't know anything about it. There's a lot of design space in table top games which I don't think is normally explored and Magic probably isn't optimal as much as it's versatile which gives it a lot more ability to pivot and survive.
 
I got some small F&B starters. My biggest issue with it is the card design itself. The resource icon is top left while the cost is a black number on red background in the top right. It and metazoo both feel almost designed against older players with fading eyesight. LoL

Best games I ever played were the original run of monsterpocalypse and Unmatched. Cards games wise, I really enjoyed keyforge.
 
And why did they fuck around with block designs? Because Maro could not come up with enough cards to make a compelling 3-set block anymore. Time Spiral (maybe Lorwyn if you want to be generous, Ravnica 1 if you want to be strict) was the last time until Return to Ravnica that Wizards did not add some catastrophic event in the 3rd set of the block to justify making all new themes/mechanics, Return to Ravnica coasted on the original's popularity, then we only had one more block (Theros) before the two-block structure was implemented.

They also need to fire whatever idiot decided to gut quality control and decide broken cards are acceptable - if drafting amounts to hoping I get a chase rare and my constructed deck could get banned for WotC's mistakes, I'm not going to spend a dime.

Edit: I just realized two things. First, Maro became head designer in late 2003 or after Ravnica was already in development. This means Time Spiral was the only block where he was in charge that tried to follow the old 3-set structure until Return to Ravnica. The second thing I didn't realize was that Gatecrash was a large set which means Theros was the first time in six years and only the second set he created that didn't deviate from the 3-set block design in some way. Put them together and either he never had the creativity or he was eager to break the block design WotC had used for over a decade the second he took over.
I don't especially love MaRo, but I'll defend him on this one:

Pre-MaRo:

Mirage block: the first block. Weatherlight has a (quiet) graveyard theme that isn't supported in the first two sets.
Tempest block: Exodus is continuous in theming and mechanics with the first two sets.
Urza's block: Destiny is more-or-less continuous with the first two sets.
Masques block: Every set is on a different world. Prophecy has a no-lands-untapped matters theme that is at best vaguely supported in the rest of the block.
Invasion block: Apocalypse is all enemy-colored whereas the first two sets were allied. You can argue this is an extension of what they were doing.
Odyssey block: Torment was color-imbalanced to black, so Judgement was color-imbalanced to white and green. Both sets were less all-in on the graveyard theme of the block than Odyssey itself was.
Onslaught block: Legions is an all-creature gimmick set. Scourge has a high-cmc theme supported nowhere else in the block, and the "play lots of spells" play pattern of Storm is also pretty unsupported (even in the same set!).
Mirrodin block: Fifth Dawn is all about playing five colors. Aaron Forsythe came out and admitted years ago they did this because of power level concerns from the rest of the block.
Kamigawa block: Saviors has a hand-size-matters theme supported nowhere else in the block.

Post-MaRo:

Time Spiral block: aside from being themed around time and having a mishmash of MTG history in theme, every set is fairly distinct.
Alara block: Alara Reborn is about as continuous with the rest of its block as Legions is with its block: they're both gimmick sets riffing on their block's theme.
Scars block: this block's progression is driven by its story. The mechanics in New Phyrexia, while different, play into the block's theme and the faction's theme.
Theros block: Theros block was a mess, but Journey is about as continuous with the rest of the block as Fifth Dawn was with its block. Arguably, Journey should have been what the whole block was, but I won't soapbox about Theros's sins here.

So I think you could argue that the block system had been messed with long before MaRo was in charge, and the third set was usually the red-headed stepchild of the block system.
 
I don't especially love MaRo, but I'll defend him on this one:

Pre-MaRo:

Mirage block: the first block. Weatherlight has a (quiet) graveyard theme that isn't supported in the first two sets.
Tempest block: Exodus is continuous in theming and mechanics with the first two sets.
Urza's block: Destiny is more-or-less continuous with the first two sets.
Masques block: Every set is on a different world. Prophecy has a no-lands-untapped matters theme that is at best vaguely supported in the rest of the block.
Invasion block: Apocalypse is all enemy-colored whereas the first two sets were allied. You can argue this is an extension of what they were doing.
Odyssey block: Torment was color-imbalanced to black, so Judgement was color-imbalanced to white and green. Both sets were less all-in on the graveyard theme of the block than Odyssey itself was.
Onslaught block: Legions is an all-creature gimmick set. Scourge has a high-cmc theme supported nowhere else in the block, and the "play lots of spells" play pattern of Storm is also pretty unsupported (even in the same set!).
Mirrodin block: Fifth Dawn is all about playing five colors. Aaron Forsythe came out and admitted years ago they did this because of power level concerns from the rest of the block.
Kamigawa block: Saviors has a hand-size-matters theme supported nowhere else in the block.

Post-MaRo:

Time Spiral block: aside from being themed around time and having a mishmash of MTG history in theme, every set is fairly distinct.
Alara block: Alara Reborn is about as continuous with the rest of its block as Legions is with its block: they're both gimmick sets riffing on their block's theme.
Scars block: this block's progression is driven by its story. The mechanics in New Phyrexia, while different, play into the block's theme and the faction's theme.
Theros block: Theros block was a mess, but Journey is about as continuous with the rest of the block as Fifth Dawn was with its block. Arguably, Journey should have been what the whole block was, but I won't soapbox about Theros's sins here.

So I think you could argue that the block system had been messed with long before MaRo was in charge, and the third set was usually the red-headed stepchild of the block system.
Eh, that's not exactly correct. MaRo became lead designer and took over for Bill Rose in 2003, but he was present long before then and was a major part of the Weatherlight design, eventually inserting the card "Maro" into the game with art he personally selected because he's an ego maniac. He also talks about how he was almost fired for how bad things got with Urza's Saga combo winter as he and his friends didn't care about power level as much as flavor and ultimately made Masques the shit pile that it was to avoid being canned.

Edit: Looking into it MaRo was actually given design lead for things like Tempest, Urza's Destiny, and Mirrodin. He was also design and development lead for Unglued as the Un sets are his baby.

Many former designers on the game also mention MaRo taking criticism very poorly, with one recounting a story where they argued about some mechanic in Ravnica I think and MaRo just wouldn't hear the opposing view but at some point in the future admitted the mechanic was a massive mistake.

Bill Rose was a much more reserved person based on what I heard, with him viewing things like cantrips as being an important part of the game but something that was to be used a little more sparingly so that not every card generated value all the time.
 
I used to play MTG a lot back in the day. Still have some of my decks someplace.

I left around the time they brought Lightning Bolt back, because I was an old enough fuck to remember when that spell was rotated out in the first place, and why. Around 4th, somewhere like 80 to 90 percent of the decks that placed in almost every format were Sligh or aggressive red decks, and Lightning Bolt was so prevalent that you saw people run four of it. Basically any creature with toughness 3 or less against a Red deck with mana to spare may as well not have not existed, and it was a lot more reliable than black removal at the low end of things, since the only way to avoid it was ProRed or Shroud.

It was a bad sign we were going full power creep, and this wasn't that long after shit like Goyf and Skullclamp, and saying that almost feels quaint in the current environment.
 
He's supporting the protest, and is anti mandate. The hilarious thing was people flooded to support him after cancelling Terese Nielson and that other guy who said he raped someone, and now Seb is about to be cancelled. It's almost like it's a good idea to separate the art from the artist.
 
Edit: Looking into it MaRo was actually given design lead for things like Tempest, Urza's Destiny, and Mirrodin. He was also design and development lead for Unglued as the Un sets are his baby.
Many former designers on the game also mention MaRo taking criticism very poorly, with one recounting a story where they argued about some mechanic in Ravnica I think and MaRo just wouldn't hear the opposing view but at some point in the future admitted the mechanic was a massive mistake.
He also got lead (lead and head designer are not the same, he has been head since 2003 but was not lead on many sets) on Mirrodin, Kaladesh, and Throne of Eldraine (horribly broken Standard) plus Khans and Ikoria (balanced Standard but too strong for Eternal - after the Oko mistake I don't think they can convince me they knew Lurrus would be a problem in vintage).

To be fair he has been lead designer on balanced sets but every last broken set over the past 20-odd years has been made with him in charge. Probably something to do with whether whoever else is on the design team can talk him out of his awful ideas.
 
He also got lead (lead and head designer are not the same, he has been head since 2003 but was not lead on many sets) on Mirrodin, Kaladesh, and Throne of Eldraine (horribly broken Standard) plus Khans and Ikoria (balanced Standard but too strong for Eternal - after the Oko mistake I don't think they can convince me they knew Lurrus would be a problem in vintage).

To be fair he has been lead designer on balanced sets but every last broken set over the past 20-odd years has been made with him in charge. Probably something to do with whether whoever else is on the design team can talk him out of his awful ideas.
I wouldn't really call Ikoria balanced if they had to change how a defining mechanic worked to contradict the printed version.

Though really I'm sure MaRo has had some good ideas, as it's impossible to go that long without any, but I think the biggest problem is he doesn't like how Magic as a game works. He's always seemed to have the view that making cool cards matters way more than balance and him being the one who created the "Un" sets shows he wants the game to go in a way more casual and goofy direction. The Companion thing was just an attempt to push the normal game more towards commander style of play, but the problem is you do have to balance around tournament level play, not casual play. Not because tournaments are that important, but because it's a much more objective power scale which shows you what's possible, because even if everyone was a casual player, there'd still be a guy who just likes playing Oko and the UG Titan because they look cool and not because he's trying to be a power gamer but ends up being one.
 
I wouldn't really call Ikoria balanced
Balanced in standard - companions weren't so strong that they completely invalidated every other deck, mostly. The real dumpster fire was... every other format. Creature-less control getting access to Kahira is still funny to me.

But anyways, the reason companion even exists is 100% because Hearthstone did a thing where, if you meet certain deck conditions, including certain cards in your deck causes something to happen. The big one was an odd/even thing that would either cheapen the characters' passive ability cost or buff the ability at the beginning of the game, so long as your deck had the correct all evens/all odds thing. It feels -identical- to the way that companions are structured, and the instant that mechanic was announced, I found myself wondering "are they going to have judges look through everyone's deck at the beginning of the game, every single match, to ensure they're meeting the condition? This seems like an online-only idea."

Lo and behold, the idea failed miserably in hearthstone, ruining both their rotating and their eternal formats until it was outright banned. Who could have seen it coming that magic's own would (and still does) present problems? I'm sure they were totally blindsided, and no-one brought up to Maro both how mutate was an incredibly clunky mechanic and how companions fundamentally break the game to its core and present the strongest restriction on designing further cards that has ever really been seen. Just impossible to foretell.

I should say, Alchemy is clearly just them shitting all over the game design they've made in order to outright steal shit from hearthstone. I don't really think there are that many magic players who really want their game to be discount hearthstone, but I think I know of a guy who has repeatedly pushed for mechanics and designs that veer towards that realm of "how the fuck is this supposed to work in paper?"
 
Who could have seen it coming that magic's own would (and still does) present problems? I'm sure they were totally blindsided
"Let me tell my story and then you can decide for yourself whether it's true or not. Anyway, there was a lot of pressure on Maro to deliver an exciting design, so he decided to push the boundaries. He made a new mechanic that allowed you to choose to start with the card in your opening hand. If you chose to do so, you had to begin with one card fewer."

"Just one card fewer? That's all? There wasn't a life loss or something?"
. . .
"Early the next morning, Maro awoke to see a message written in lipstick on the mirror, reversed so he could easily read it. It read: 'DECK VARIANCE IS THE LIFEBLOOD OF THE GAME AND UNDERCUTTING IT WITH THIS MECHANIC HAS LED TO THE MOST UNFUN PLAYTEST GAMES WE HAVE EVER PLAYED. IF THIS IS THE FUTURE OF MAGIC DESIGN, WE WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.' The interns were gone and haven't ever been seen since. Maro took the new mechanic out of the file and never talked about it again."
-Source by Mark Rosewater.
 
Balanced in standard - companions weren't so strong that they completely invalidated every other deck, mostly. The real dumpster fire was... every other format. Creature-less control getting access to Kahira is still funny to me.

But anyways, the reason companion even exists is 100% because Hearthstone did a thing where, if you meet certain deck conditions, including certain cards in your deck causes something to happen. The big one was an odd/even thing that would either cheapen the characters' passive ability cost or buff the ability at the beginning of the game, so long as your deck had the correct all evens/all odds thing. It feels -identical- to the way that companions are structured, and the instant that mechanic was announced, I found myself wondering "are they going to have judges look through everyone's deck at the beginning of the game, every single match, to ensure they're meeting the condition? This seems like an online-only idea."

Lo and behold, the idea failed miserably in hearthstone, ruining both their rotating and their eternal formats until it was outright banned. Who could have seen it coming that magic's own would (and still does) present problems? I'm sure they were totally blindsided, and no-one brought up to Maro both how mutate was an incredibly clunky mechanic and how companions fundamentally break the game to its core and present the strongest restriction on designing further cards that has ever really been seen. Just impossible to foretell.

I should say, Alchemy is clearly just them shitting all over the game design they've made in order to outright steal shit from hearthstone. I don't really think there are that many magic players who really want their game to be discount hearthstone, but I think I know of a guy who has repeatedly pushed for mechanics and designs that veer towards that realm of "how the fuck is this supposed to work in paper?"
Never made the connection to Genn and Baku, but it does make sense. Those were awful cards for Hearthstone for obvious reasons and they were awful for Magic for obvious reasons. Hearthstone is also a game that's fun to watch because it's so visually simple but not particularly fun to play and constantly has issues with how swingy the game becomes, and their design choices always seem to be retarded. I recently played some Battle Grounds, as that's the only thing I will really do once in a while, and they even fucked that one up with a new mechanic that just makes the game unplayable, and it's a companion style mechanic.
 
card disadvantage wasn't the answer, you see, nor was life loss: it was forcing judges to waste a shitton of time at FNM-level events. that's how you balance out the mechanic

fucking visionary
It's worse because it was card ADVANTAGE since you essentially got an 8th card in hand every game.

Anyway if you really want a laugh, here's what MaRo said about the mechanic in his design article:

#1: It had to be verifiable.
Let's say I'm playing against my opponent and they play a creature with companion. How do I know that their deck actually follows the constraints of that companion? We didn't want players to have to call a judge and have them verify the deck every time a companion got cast. What this meant was that the constraint had to be something straightforward and applied to the whole deck. A constraint like "half the nonland cards in the deck had to be all the same card type" wasn't verifiable. Saying "all the nonland cards in your deck had to be the same card type" was. This requirement is probably the thing that knocked out the most designs. I will note, there was one card, Lutri, the Spellchaser, that technically didn't follow this constraint, but not having any repeated cards felt like a thing people could grok easily enough that it was okay.​
 
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So Magic is about to lose one of their few remaining talented artists. Seb McKinnon was spotted at the Canadian trucker protest.
 
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