EU Le Gilets Jaune protests thread - Do you hear the people sing? Singing the songs of angry men?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46233560

One protester has died and dozens were injured as almost a quarter of a million people took to the streets of France, angry at rising fuel prices.

The female protester who died was struck after a driver surrounded by demonstrators panicked and accelerated.

The "yellow vests", so-called after the high-visibility jackets they are required to carry in their cars, blocked motorways and roundabouts.

They accuse President Emmanuel Macron of abandoning "the little people".

Mr Macron has not so far commented on the protests, some of which have seen demonstrators call for him to resign.

But he admitted earlier in the week that he had not "really managed to reconcile the French people with their leaders".

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Nonetheless, he accused his political opponents of hijacking the movement in order to block his reform programme.

What has happened so far?
Some 244,000 people took part in protests across France, the interior ministry said in its latest update.

It said 106 people were injured during the day, five seriously, with 52 people arrested.

Most of the protests have been taking place without incident although several of the injuries came when drivers tried to force their way through protesters.

Image copyrightREUTERS
Image captionA driver forces a car through a group of protesters in Donges, western France
Chantal Mazet, 63, was killed in the south-eastern Savoy region when a driver who was taking her daughter to hospital panicked at being blocked by about 50 demonstrators, who were striking the roof of her vehicle, and drove into them.

The driver has been taken into police custody in a state of shock.

In Paris protesters approaching the Élysée Palace, the president's official residence, were repelled with tear gas.

Why are drivers on the warpath?
The price of diesel, the most commonly used fuel in French cars, has risen by around 23% over the past 12 months to an average of €1.51 (£1.32; $1.71) per litre, its highest point since the early 2000s, AFP news agency reports.

World oil prices did rise before falling back again but the Macron government raised its hydrocarbon tax this year by 7.6 cents per litre on diesel and 3.9 cents on petrol, as part of a campaign for cleaner cars and fuel.

Image copyrightEPA
Image captionTear gas was used to disperse protesters in Paris
The decision to impose a further increase of 6.5 cents on diesel and 2.9 cents on petrol on 1 January 2019 was seen as the final straw.

Speaking on Wednesday, the president blamed world oil prices for three-quarters of the price rise. He also said more tax on fossil fuels was needed to fund renewable energy investments.

How big is the movement?
It has broad support. Nearly three-quarters of respondents to a poll by the Elabe institute backed the Yellow Vests and 70% wanted the government to reverse the fuel tax hikes.

More than half of French people who voted for Mr Macron support the protests, Elabe's Vincent Thibault told AFP.

Image copyrightREUTERS
Image captionPolice attend as protesters block a motorway in Antibes
"The expectations and discontent over spending power are fairly broad, it's not just something that concerns rural France or the lower classes," he said.

The BBC's Lucy Williamson in Paris says the movement has grown via social media into a broad and public criticism of Mr Macron's economic policies.

Are opposition politicians involved?
They have certainly tried to tap into it. Far-right leader Marine Le Pen, who was defeated by Mr Macron in the second round of the presidential election, has been encouraging it on Twitter.

She said: "The government shouldn't be afraid of French people who come to express their revolt and do it in a peaceful fashion."

Image Copyright @MLP_officiel@MLP_OFFICIEL
Report

Laurent Wauquiez, leader of the centre-right Republicans, called on the Macron government to scrap the next planned increase in carbon tax on fossil fuels in January to offset rising vehicle fuel prices.

Mr Castaner has described Saturday's action as a "political protest with the Republicans behind it".

Olivier Faure, leader of the left-wing Socialist Party said the movement - which has no single leader and is not linked to any trade union - had been "born outside political parties".

"People want politicians to listen to them and respond. Their demand is to have purchasing power and financial justice," he said.

Image Copyright @faureolivier@FAUREOLIVIER
Report

Is there any room for compromise?
On Wednesday, the government announced action to help poor families pay their energy and transport bills.

Prime Minister Edouard Philippe announced that 5.6 million households would receive energy subsidies. Currently 3.6 million receive them.

A state scrappage bonus on polluting vehicles would also be doubled for France's poorest families, he said, and fuel tax credits would be brought in for people who depend on their cars for work.

Protesters have mocked the president relentlessly as "Micron" or "Macaron" (Macaroon) or simply Manu, the short form of Emmanuel, which he famously scolded a student for using.

Image Copyright @BBCWorld@BBCWORLD
Report

To be honest, I don't blame the driver at all.

 

[armoreddinnerjacket]

All this in-fighting goes to show how fragile the EU really is. Centuries of war and rivalries don't just get swept under the rug.

 

[Hux]

All this in-fighting goes to show how fragile the EU really is. Centuries of war and rivalries don't just get swept under the rug.

The Polish proverb of "As long as the world still exists, the Pole will never be the German's brother" doesn't still ring true for absolutely no reason at all, for example

 

[Bum Driller]

in this case, I'd say its obvious the french are going to revolt. sure they might fail, but they do have a history of going to anarchy sooner than most societies would and usually because of dissatisfaction with the aristocracy. further, the government has for quite some time been literally ignoring the french people's concerns, and in fact insulting them by giving muslims entire blocks of property and having police all but abandon them.

Revolutions that happened in France in the past have been under circumstances which aren't present in this day and age. The truth about Europe at large is still that it's mostly safer than most places on this planet, and markedly more safe than for example USA or Russia. While the immigrant surge has increased the instability and random violence, the absolute increase is still quite small, even though the relative increase in rapes, assaults etc. might have risen drastically. Economically Europe is going downhill, but the situation isn't yet so dire that it would provoke large scale unrest - of course this is relative, as relatively speaking GJ protests are something not seen in Western Europe for quite some time.

 

[Corbin Dallas Multipass]

The truth about Europe at large is still that it's mostly safer than most places on this planet, and markedly more safe than for example USA or Russia.

Actual statistics seem to disagree, but due to the way different crimes are reported, it's hard to draw much conclusion besides "Rates of violent crime seem relatively similar in the US and Europe". And obviously it really depends where you are in the US or Europe.

 

[vertexwindi]

I'm pretty sure I'm not the only European who has completely given up on reporting any crime because 9 times out of 10 cops don't do anything about it, unless it involves speeding or saying mean things on Twitter.

 

[Nobunaga]

Revolutions that happened in France in the past have been under circumstances which aren't present in this day and age. The truth about Europe at large is still that it's mostly safer than most places on this planet, and markedly more safe than for example USA or Russia. While the immigrant surge has increased the instability and random violence, the absolute increase is still quite small, even though the relative increase in rapes, assaults etc. might have risen drastically. Economically Europe is going downhill, but the situation isn't yet so dire that it would provoke large scale unrest - of course this is relative, as relatively speaking GJ protests are something not seen in Western Europe for quite some time.

Them having a terrorist attack every week tells me the contrary

 

[Your Weird Fetish]

also the EU is now again trying to sabotage the german/russian gas pipeline project in the baltic sea, this time france apparently leads the effort to stop the project (usually it's mostly poland and america being butthurt about it)

lots of trouble brewing

How many licks does Germany have to take before they realize they should have just stuck with nuclear?

 

[Bum Driller]

Them having a terrorist attack every week tells me the contrary

They happen, they're shrugged off, and then people go on about their everyday lives just as always. I live in a city in Europe that had a terrorist attack some time ago - a refugee stabbed some people in the street in the name of ISIS. It changed nothing, except that perhaps our anti-immigration party got a slight boost to their support ratings. What I'm trying to say here is that situation in Europe is deteriorating, but the change is slow, and will have effect only in the unforeseeable future, or if something truly unexpected happens. Like, if muslims would literally detonate a nuclear bomb in a major European city, which seems quite unlikely.

 

[armoreddinnerjacket]

They happen, they're shrugged off, and then people go on about their everyday lives just as always. I live in a city in Europe that had a terrorist attack some time ago - a refugee stabbed some people in the street in the name of ISIS. It changed nothing, except that perhaps our anti-immigration party got a slight boost to their support ratings. What I'm trying to say here is that situation in Europe is deteriorating, but the change is slow, and will have effect only in the unforeseeable future, or if something truly unexpected happens. Like, if muslims would literally detonate a nuclear bomb in a major European city, which seems quite unlikely.

And when most Americans do the same with mass shootings the rest of the world looks at us funny. Pot, meet kettle.

 

[Cosmug]

And when most Americans do the same with mass shootings the rest of the world looks at us funny. Pot, meet kettle.

Most Americans don’t see any of America’s violent shootings though. That might explain it in both situations; for America half the violent crime is happening in 15 or so cities. The entire rest of the country outside Chicago, Detroit, Arlington, Atlanta, Philadelphia, New York, and Dallas collectively produce only as much violent crime as those places do.

 

[Elwood P. Dowd]

Does the whole ambassador system even make sense any more? Why does DiMaio look like a 14 year old wearing daddy's suit? Is this important, or is Macron just an insufferable, oversensitive DramaFag?

So many questions in this on-going Telenova.

Link / Outline

France recalls Rome envoy over worst verbal onslaught 'since the war'


Move comes after Italian deputy PM met leaders of the anti-Macron gilets jaunes

Angelique Chrisafis in Paris

@achrisafis
Thu 7 Feb 2019 12.13 ESTFirst published on Thu 7 Feb 2019 08.22 EST

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Luigi Di Maio (left) and Matteo Salvini have recently criticised Emmanuel Macron on inflammatory issues. Photograph: Alberto Pizzoli/AFP/Getty Images
Paris has taken the extraordinary step of recalling its ambassador from Rome, in the worst crisis between the two neighbouring countries since the second world war.

France blamed what it called baseless verbal attacks from Italy’s political leaders, which it said were “without precedent since world war two”.

Italy’s two deputy prime ministers, the far-right Matteo Salvini and Luigi Di Maio of the populist, anti-establishment Five Star Movement, have in recent months criticised the French president, Emmanuel Macron, on a host of inflammatory issues, from immigration to the gilets jaunes (yellow vest) anti-government demonstrations.

Di Maio this week met leaders of the gilets jaunes seeking to run in May’s European parliament elections as he declared the “wind of change has crossed the Alps” and a “new Europe is being born of the yellow vests”. France said the comments were an unacceptable “provocation”.

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Announcing the immediate return to Paris of its ambassador for talks, the French foreign office said in a statement: “For several months, France has been the target of repeated, baseless attacks and outrageous statements. Having disagreements is one thing but manipulating the relationship for electoral aims is another.

“All of these actions are creating a serious situation which is raising questions about the Italian government’s intentions towards France.”

Salvini responded by saying the Italian government did not want to fall out with France and suggested a meeting with Macron to fix the relationship.

“I don’t want to row with anyone, I’m prepared to go to Paris, even by foot, to discuss the many issues we have,” he said.

But, in a further dig at Macron, he said France must first address three issues: French police must stop pushing migrants back into Italy, end lengthy border checks blocking traffic and hand over around 15 Italian leftist militants who have taken refuge in France in recent decades.


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Luigi Di Maio, fourth from right, meets European parliamentary candidates standing in France on a gilets jaunes list. Photograph: Facebook / Luigi Di Maio
The long-running political spat between Italy and France has been viewed as the biggest bust-up between the countries since 1945. Both sides were initially seen to be using their differences for electoral reasons: Salvini to push his far-right agenda and Macron to style himself as a centrist counterweight against populism in May’s European parliamentary elections.

Relations soured after Italy’s populist government came to power last June. Macron, who was under pressure at home for not accepting the Aquarius migrant ship that Salvini turned away from Italian ports, said populism was spreading across Europe “a bit like leprosy”.

He did not name Italy but the leprosy comment was taken to be directly aimed at Rome.

Salvini has called Macron a dire French president. “I hope the French will be able to free themselves of a terrible president,” he said in one Facebook video, urging French voters not to back Macron’s La République En Marche party in the European vote.

Salvini is close to Macron’s presidential rival, the French far-right leader, Marine Le Pen, whose National Rally party is currently neck and neck with Macron’s in polls before the European elections.

Di Maio last month accused France of impoverishing Africa and bringing on the migration crisis. He said France was encouraging immigration to Europe “because European countries, France above all, have never stopped colonising dozens of African countries”. Furious, the French foreign office immediately summoned the Italian envoy in France for talks over what it called “hostile” remarks.

Already, relations were so strained that France and Italy failed to hold a traditional joint summit last year. Tensions had been mounting steadily over immigration and France’s role in the 2011 military intervention in Libya.

The countries have even been at odds about celebrations for the Renaissance master Leonardo da Vinci, with Italy raising doubts about loaning works for a major commemoration show at Paris’s Louvre museum.

During a visit to Egypt last month, Macron sought to shrug off the sparring, dismissing Salvini and Di Maio’s comments as “insignificant”.

The French Europe minister, Nathalie Loiseau, told France Inter radio: “We don’t have the same political choices as Matteo Salvini’s League or Luigi Di Maio’s Five Star Movement, but everyone should prioritise the chief concern of dealing with their own country’s affairs and ensuring good relations with neighbours.”

Additional reporting by Angela Giuffrida in Pescara

 

[Stoneheart]

Macron got hardcore cucked by merkel today. his government said they would block the pipeline, they didnt even try...

 

[QI 541]

Most Americans don’t see any of America’s violent shootings though. That might explain it in both situations; for America half the violent crime is happening in 15 or so cities. The entire rest of the country outside Chicago, Detroit, Arlington, Atlanta, Philadelphia, New York, and Dallas collectively produce only as much violent crime as those places do.

Most of America's population are in those cities too though.

 

[Cosmug]

Most of America's population are in those cities too though.

Yes and no. Huge numbers of people do live there but there’s large numbers of people who only work in cites. New York City proper can be said to have something like 9 million people in it on any given day but the people who work there and leave at the end of the day to go to Hoboken or Trenton is probably about half that. Urban sprawl and all that. The issue is that people are packed in tight so that violent felons are per capita harming more people, disproportionate to the segment of the population they represent. If New York City and Bethlehem, Pennsylvania both consisted of exactly one million people plus one murderer, the murder in Bethlehem would achieve that areas murder rate per capita at about 600 deaths while NYC would need about 1000. The issue is that America’s “national” lawlessness is heavily concentrated so a lot of people don’t see it at all and those who do all live in the same areas. Yes they are population centers but no it’s not most of America’s population. The people who work and live in America’s cities is not quite as large as those who live in suburbs and work in cities. Those people also don’t see the violence at least at home.

 

[Zbk3VmLfujjzjxBd43tL]

Actual statistics seem to disagree, but due to the way different crimes are reported, it's hard to draw much conclusion besides "Rates of violent crime seem relatively similar in the US and Europe". And obviously it really depends where you are in the US or Europe.

Berlin, Frankfurt, Hamburg, and especially Munich are still safer than Detroit, Chicago, Baltimore, St. Louis, etc. Reported crime rate is less than half that of those cities, and even adjusting for under-reporting, still much lower. Interestingly, one small group in each country is committing a disproportionate amount of crime in both the US and Germany...

Them having a terrorist attack every week tells me the contrary

It's their equivalent of mass shootings, but while "take away the guns" is always being screamed, you can go to jail for saying "take away the Muslims".

How many licks does Germany have to take before they realize they should have just stuck with nuclear?

They're literally dumb enough to want to run their country on solar power in an area notorious for its cloudy days. People talk about Seattle being cloudy, but the sunniest city of any size in Germany (Freiburg im Breisgau apparently) gets over 300 hours less a year. And then they want to be all like "Russia Bad" yet without Russia they couldn't keep the lights on and heat running and all the Germans would freeze to death just like they did in Mother Russia back in 40-44.

 

[Stoneheart]

They're literally dumb enough to want to run their country on solar power in an area notorious for its cloudy days. People talk about Seattle being cloudy, but the sunniest city of any size in Germany (Freiburg im Breisgau apparently) gets over 300 hours less a year. And then they want to be all like "Russia Bad" yet without Russia they couldn't keep the lights on and heat running and all the Germans would freeze to death just like they did in Mother Russia back in 40-44.

Solar, wind, biomass, hydro, etc. It will be just another deed on our long list. We invented the car, all major engine typs, shot the first rocket into space, etc, you think we cant do it? the problem isnt the technologie, the problem are the greens. they hate technologie and love rapists...

Also germany has enough coal to heat everything, its just to expensive.

 

[Just Some Other Guy]

Solar, wind, biomass, hydro, etc. It will be just another deed on our long list. We invented the car, all major engine typs, shot the first rocket into space, etc, you think we cant do it? the problem isnt the technologie, the problem are the greens. they hate technologie and love rapists...

Also germany has enough coal to heat everything, its just to expensive.

Sure you can, when you develop an entirely new method of doing it. Trying to use current "green" tech will never work. That's the other issue, it isn't green. I assume you guys are going this way for the greenies? If it was only for sustainable energy, you'd go nuclear.

Oh, but upcoming gen IV reactors are even more green. Green enough to be considered renewable aswell.

So no offense to you, but I consider any nation dumb as fuck for forsaking our crowning energy achievement so far just to be """"green"""". At least in the US when we ditched nuclear progress, we kept our fossil plants instead of being Russia's bitch (along with higher energy costs).

 

[Stoneheart]

Sure you can, when you develop an entirely new method of doing it. Trying to use current "green" tech will never work. That's the other issue, it isn't green. I assume you guys are going this way for the greenies? If it was only for sustainable energy, you'd go nuclear.

Oh, but upcoming gen IV reactors are even more green. Green enough to be considered renewable aswell.

So no offense to you, but I consider any nation dumb as fuck for forsaking our crowning energy achievement so far just to be """"green"""". At least in the US when we ditched nuclear progress, we kept our fossil plants instead of being Russia's bitch (along with higher energy costs).

the Technologie is there and the capital is there.
Yes Nulcear would be easyer on paper, but Its hard enough to build roads, people would go completly apeshit when they hear that somebody plans a Nuclear Energie plant next to their city. its also SUPER expensive. It should be a part, but 100% nuclear isnt a good solution.

Natural gas isnt used for power on a big scale in germany, its mostly for heating. We are just that we have french with their massive power infrastruture but no industrie to use it next door. Russia is a very good source for energie imports, they will deliver as long as you pay, also whats wrong with beeing close with russia? Russians are good people and should be friends and not enemys. I dont care if they bomb Nazis in the Ukraine or take over small countrys in caucasus.

 

[RP 520]

Some livestreams of today's protest for those that like to watch, they seem pretty large today. It looks like the injuries some protesters suffered recently and the callousness shown by Macron and some of the police have re-energized the movement. Cars are getting torched, windows smashed, and of course trash fires.
https://www.pscp.tv/w/1ypKdOYMwevxW?

 

[Just Some Other Guy]

the Technologie is there and the capital is there.
Yes Nulcear would be easyer on paper, but Its hard enough to build roads, people would go completly apeshit when they hear that somebody plans a Nuclear Energie plant next to their city. its also SUPER expensive. It should be a part, but 100% nuclear isnt a good solution.

Natural gas isnt used for power on a big scale in germany, its mostly for heating. We are just that we have french with their massive power infrastruture but no industrie to use it next door. Russia is a very good source for energie imports, they will deliver as long as you pay, also whats wrong with beeing close with russia? Russians are good people and should be friends and not enemys. I dont care if they bomb Nazis in the Ukraine or take over small countrys in caucasus.

This discussion is going way off topic. I'll just say being gas dependant on Russia is cool, until they threaten to shut the pipes. They've done it before.