Law Law School Accrediting Panel Votes to Make LSAT Optional - Legal-education community has been divided over testing requirement and its impact on diversity in admissions

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An American Bar Association panel voted Friday to drop a requirement that law school applicants take the LSAT or another standardized admissions test, amid debate about whether the tests help or hurt diversity in admissions.

The accrediting council, made up of lawyers, professors and administrators, voted 15-1 at its meeting to eliminate the requirement of a “valid and reliable admission test” for hopeful law students. The panel sought public comment on the proposal in May, after an ABA committee recommended the elimination of the testing requirement.

Individual law schools are still free to require a test. The policy change will take effect beginning for students applying in fall 2025.
The LSAT, or Law School Admission Test, tests analytical reasoning, logic and reading comprehension, and is considered a predictor of success in law school. The ABA last year allowed law schools to consider the Graduate Record Examination, or the GRE, in addition to the LSAT.

Public comments over eliminating the testing requirement have been polarized, largely around the issue of diversity. The legal profession has long been criticized for a lack of women and people of color in its top ranks, and the panel’s debate comes as schools are bracing for a decision from the Supreme Court on whether race can be a factor in college admissions.

“In the grand scheme of things, folks of color perform less well on the LSAT than not, and for that reason, I think we are headed in the right direction,” Leo Martinez, an ABA council member and dean emeritus at University of California, Hastings College of the Law, said at the meeting. “I am sympathetic that it gives people like me a chance.”

Representatives from the Law School Admission Council, which administers the LSAT, and ETS, a nonprofit education testing service, told the council making testing optional would result in the admission of some law students who are unprepared to succeed, which it said would ultimately hurt the legal profession.

“This proposal will be highly disruptive,” John White, chair of LSAC’s board of trustees, told the council. “The change won’t be worth it, and we won’t get the diversity we are looking for.”

ABA panel members largely pushed back.

“I find the argument that the test is necessary to save diversity in legal education is bizarre,” said council member Craig Boise, dean of Syracuse University College of Law.

The panel also questioned why law schools shouldn’t be aligned with other graduate programs that don’t require tests.

A range of law professors and prospective law students urged the ABA to eliminate the testing requirement in public comments submitted before the vote.

In one written comment, Fariha Amin, a full-time worker and mother to a 6-year-old son, said her LSAT scores remain a hurdle to getting into law school. She took tutoring courses, but her scores still weren’t high enough to be admitted, she told the ABA, urging them to eliminate the requirement.

“I would hate to give up on my dream of becoming a family lawyer, just due to not being able to successfully handle this test,” Ms. Amin wrote.

Coalitions of admissions officers and university deans warned of unintended consequences if the testing requirement were dropped.

“We believe that removal of the testing requirement could actually increase the very disparities proponents seek to reduce by increasing the influence of bias in the review process,” Kristin Theis-Alvarez, assistant dean of admissions and financial aid at University of California, Berkeley, School of Law, said in a submission on behalf of dozens of university officials.

They argued that eliminating the test could lead to an overreliance on grade-point average and other criteria they say could be “infused with bias.”

In a survey of 82 law schools, released this week by Kaplan Inc., 30 said they would be “very likely” to continue to require tests while 37 said they were undecided. Only two schools said they would be very unlikely to continue requiring an admission exam.

John Pierre, chancellor of Southern University Law Center, a historically black university in Baton Rouge, La., in an interview said he supported the ABA change but his university would continue to use the LSAT for prospective students, regardless.

Each school, he said, should make its own choices. “There have been concerns for a number of years that it might not be a factor in determining success,” Mr. Pierre said. “Everyone has to look at their own history.”

The test-optional policy will be presented before the ABA’s House of Delegates in February, but final approval rests with the accrediting panel that voted for it on Friday.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/law-sc...-to-consider-making-lsat-optional-11668778730 (Archive)
 
An American Bar Association panel voted Friday to drop a requirement that law school applicants take the LSAT or another standardized admissions test, amid debate about whether the tests help or hurt diversity in admissions.
lmao literally lowering standards because they think black people are too dumb to pass.
 
An American Bar Association panel voted Friday to drop a requirement that law school applicants take the LSAT or another standardized admissions test, amid debate about whether the tests help or hurt diversity in admissions.
"How will this make good lawyers?"

"Good lawyers?"
The panel also questioned why law schools shouldn’t be aligned with other graduate programs that don’t require tests.
This is like medical schools dropping the MCAT. Which will probably happen sooner or later.

Remember those videos of Harvard and Yale Law students shrieking like baboons over a campus appearance by, who was it, Ben Shapiro? Those are the judges and prosecutors of the future.

Be very, very afraid. Calvinball Law is upon us.
 
I mean the good news is, you can ALWAYS shop around for lawyers (even in the most podunk of towns). And anyone too retarded to do that deserves what they get.
 
This is like medical schools dropping the MCAT. Which will probably happen sooner or later.

Remember those videos of Harvard and Yale Law students shrieking like baboons over a campus appearance by, who was it, Ben Shapiro? Those are the judges and prosecutors of the future.

Be very, very afraid. Calvinball Law is upon us.
The natural conclusion to what was going to happen after the the hippie Baby Boomers of the 1960s entered into academia is always approaching.
 
On the one hand, both our legal and medical communities are incredibly over-credentialed compared to other countries, which largely serves to keep them walled off from intelligent people of lower classes.

On the other, getting rid of the testing requirements because diversity is just the shittiest reason to lower the barriers to entry.
 
Get rid of the bar exam, too. There's no reason a random welder shouldn't be able to be a lawyer in his free time.
 
On the one hand, both our legal and medical communities are incredibly over-credentialed compared to other countries, which largely serves to keep them walled off from intelligent people of lower classes.

On the other, getting rid of the testing requirements because diversity is just the shittiest reason to lower the barriers to entry.
This is why higher education should be subsidised for poor smart people and also why it should be illegal to ask applicants their race or gender. When you apply the system should generate a number for your application and that's all Professor Goldsteinberg sees to identify it from the others.
 
This isn't about diversity as it's more about getting the law schools more money. Total-JD-enrollment.png
The legal profession is slowly dying and the increasing adoption of online legal services is one of the main causes.

Now, certain types of law will always need a person there and most corporations will still use lawyers over a website but unless you went to a Tier 1 or Tier 2 law school forget about getting a job in those fields. This is predicated on a person actually passing the bar, which many graduates fail.
 
You know the Romans forgot how to repair the aqueducts they built.

The future will be like 40k where technology is considered magic. Only instead of a lexmechanic pouring holy oil to sanctify gears it will be some 400 pound nigger bitch tell you "da power machine broke" as you sit in your home praying to St. George Floyd that the lights come back on.
 
You know the Romans forgot how to repair the aqueducts they built.

The future will be like 40k where technology is considered magic. Only instead of a lexmechanic pouring holy oil to sanctify gears it will be some 400 pound nigger bitch tell you "da power machine broke" as you sit in your home praying to St. George Floyd that the lights come back on.
It'll be like how the Orks became capable of interstellar travel: by smashing machines together and believing it will work until it does.
 
On the one hand, both our legal and medical communities are incredibly over-credentialed compared to other countries, which largely serves to keep them walled off from intelligent people of lower classes.
Hard disagree. The LSAT is basically pure logic, and an LSAT prep class is like $800. Being not-retarded is far more important than any perception of what class you are.

Perhaps, consider, that these people are lower class because their parents are not very intelligent, they are not very intelligent, and their children are not very intelligent. Rarely do you see a truck driver who is also a chess champion, after all.
 
In one written comment, Fariha Amin, a full-time worker and mother to a 6-year-old son, said her LSAT scores remain a hurdle to getting into law school. She took tutoring courses, but her scores still weren’t high enough to be admitted, she told the ABA, urging them to eliminate the requirement.

If you can't pass the test then maybe a career in law isn't for you.

I know some people are just poor test takers. They get nervous and just stare blankly at the papers until time runs out or get confused and fill in the wrong or inadequate answers. Maybe this lady had those issues. Maybe not. But if she's really inept at it due to intelligence then I wouldn't want her defending my case. People expect their lawyers to be good lawyers.

Hard disagree. The LSAT is basically pure logic, and an LSAT prep class is like $800. Being not-retarded is far more important than any perception of what class you are.

Perhaps, consider, that these people are lower class because their parents are not very intelligent, they are not very intelligent, and their children are not very intelligent. Rarely do you see a truck driver who is also a chess champion, after all.

There can still be some Will Huntings in there somewhere. But getting bogged down by your family's lower berth intellect doesn't help. A lot of kids will never get the opportunity because their parents can't even help them with third grade homework and even if they want to make more of themselves they get disillusioned by the hard work and stress involved. Of course there's also plenty of good for nothing trust fund babbys who get bought into good schools and get nepotism based jobs. Retards do indeed come in all classes.
 
Hard disagree. The LSAT is basically pure logic, and an LSAT prep class is like $800. Being not-retarded is far more important than any perception of what class you are.

Perhaps, consider, that these people are lower class because their parents are not very intelligent, they are not very intelligent, and their children are not very intelligent. Rarely do you see a truck driver who is also a chess champion, after all.
$800 dollars is a lot of money to poor people. I'm not retarded enough to think that every Jayquon, JaTavious and N'Gubu would ever get near to passing the test, and I know that nobody ever said life was fair, but if a single smart kid who could pull themselves out of the shit doesn't get the chance because they can't afford $800 then I think that is very bad.
 
Why is this a surprise?

You don't even need knowledge of basic biology to be a Supreme Court justice nowadays.
 
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