KR Korean Cold War Officially Over - Leaders shown holding hands and crossing borders

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Autopsy said:
Everyone should keep firmly placed in their minds that negating the victory of thirty or a hundred bad men is not worth millions of people dying like dogs, especially if that "victory" is the only viable solution to free those millions of their chains.
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This is why I hate the modern lefty in international politics.

They have no concept of realpolitik, and that if you get a chance to defuse a major rogue state, you take it, in good faith, even if the price is no justice for the millions of people Dear Leader abused, beyond the hope that they may be the last ones and an ultimately friendlier regime emerges on the scene in the next 15 - 20 years, and may someday integrate itself into the First World as at least no worse a place than your average communist state..... it may even be stable enough someday to admit it did wrong, but it's going to have to at least get some formalized and non-belligerent ties to the modern global community as step "1", and these progressives will torpedo that out of spite if they can because their dogma says wrongthinkers/wrongdoers must be punished as step "1".

Their moral righteousness says the only acceptable outcome is Kim in jail cell, even if the entire Korean Peninsula and everyone on it ends up glowing green as a result....

As much as they go on and on and on about how they don't want a religious Republican in charge because the nightmare scenario is going to war for petty reasons (God says so!) , the left is just as bad because they'd walk away from peace treaties for equally petty reasons (the document doesn't specifically mention the abuses suffered by trans people!)
 
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Reunification of Korea is a pipe dream, but I'm sure all Koreans (especially residents of Seoul) would like not to have the shadow of possible war looming over them. It would be extremely stupid to blow this opportunity at reconciliation away in the name of moral righteousness.

As some lefty guy named Cicero said, an unjust peace is better than a just war.
 
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Guardian G.I. said:
an unjust peace is better than a just war.
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Thank you for condensing my blather into the point I was trying to make..... I'd rather future generations be ignorant of how bad it was, and not in misery of how it is.
 
TowinKarz said:
This is why I hate the modern lefty in international politics.

They have no concept of realpolitik, and that if you get a chance to defuse a major rogue state, you take it, in good faith, even if the price is no justice for the millions of people Dear Leader abused, beyond the hope that they may be the last ones and an ultimately friendlier regime emerges on the scene in the next 15 - 20 years, and may someday integrate itself into the First World as at least no worse a place than your average communist state..... it may even be stable enough someday to admit it did wrong, but it's going to have to at least get some formalized and non-belligerent ties to the modern global community as step "1", and these progressives will torpedo that out of spite if they can because their dogma says wrongthinkers/wrongdoers must be punished as step "1".

Their moral righteousness says the only acceptable outcome is Kim in jail cell, even if the entire Korean Peninsula and everyone on it ends up glowing green as a result....

As much as they go on and on and on about how they don't want a religious Republican in charge because the nightmare scenario is going to war for petty reasons (God says so!) , the left is just as bad because they'd walk away from peace treaties for equally petty reasons (the document doesn't specifically mention the abuses suffered by trans people!)
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This is why I dislike romantics; everything is black and white to them. They'll ignore the drawbacks or negative consequences if it fits their imagined morality. Likewise, they'll exaggerate about how evil something is if it offends them. Worst of all, they're quite willing to have the phyrric short term victory at the expense of long term interests.

They're in both political parties unfortunately. For example, romantics were both the loudest voices for overthrowing Hussein and Gadaffi. They used the same rhetoric, but the only difference was whether or not their team had a grudge against the dictator.
 
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heathercho said:
Different ethnic groups? Do you mean maybe castes or clans?
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Let me see if I can find a break down - they all are "Koreans" but IIRC you have "Mountain Koreans", "Coastal Koreans", and "Inland Koreans".

North Korea has effectively destroyed most of their minority populations, and South Korea (on paper) stopped drawing a distinction pretty much ever since their founding, but people still say if you look a certain way, you must be one of those filthy outsiders who's ancestors came from Mongolia 400 years ago, and you need to be sent back and stop corrupting the pure Korean genepool. Or at least don't want you marrying into their family. (They also don't like the people with "Japanese" features but to be fair they've got more recent reasons to be a little miffed about that)


spiritofamermaid said:
Does that mean that it's actually not the end of the Korean Cold War, and just de-nuclearization of NK? Just the first steps to de-nucleared NK and not first steps to the end of the Korean Cold War?
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Remember the war has been effectively over since 1953. All that will happen is they sign a piece of paper that says "We have stopped being at war", nothing will change.

It leaves things open the possibility for change, and puts North Korea in a bit of a bad spot of they they get to too aggressive towards South Korea in the future.
 
Neat.

If you try and forget how Un is a dictator and NK has been dying for decades, he looks like a little, chubby snowman. Would be kind of wholesome if he hadn't been murdering his own family and half the population of his country.

Real talk tho this is really cool and I hope this is at least the start of something good for Korea as a whole.
 
Ghostse said:
Remember the war has been effectively over since 1953. All that will happen is they sign a piece of paper that says "We have stopped being at war", nothing will change.

It leaves things open the possibility for change, and puts North Korea in a bit of a bad spot of they they get to too aggressive towards South Korea in the future.
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There have been smaller conflicts ever since the ceasefire was signed in 1953. Notable examples include the Blue House Raid, the responding formation of Unit 684, the Second Battle of Yeonpyeong, and the Shelling of Yeonpyeong in 2010. Each of these things would have been declarations of war under normal circumstances. But keep in mind that the Korean War never officially ended, meaning that the two sides could resume a full scale conflict without too much bureaucratic paperwork.

The reason why they don't is because there's too much at stake. If the North were to invade the South, it would warrant a full scale response from the US military. Saddam Hussein had tech that was decades ahead of North Korea and he still got his shit kicked in. But if the South were to invade the North, it would warrant a response from China to protect their closest ally. The Chinese military of today isn't the peasant army of the past which was sent charging across frozen terrain hoping that the Americans would eventually run out of bullets. They have hardware and tactics they've been itching to use.
 
thismanlies said:
keep in mind that the Korean War never officially ended, meaning that the two sides could resume a full scale conflict without too much bureaucratic paperwork.
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It's been a 1984-level forever war in that regard, which is why the North occasionally lobs mortar shells onto islands in the south, to keep the appearance of fighting the war up, without having to actually provide anything of actual military value. And they know the international community may react by immediately condemning them, but can't directly get involved as they'd be picking a side in what's technically, a declared, legal, ongoing war. It's the loophole to avoid being immediately bombed by everyone, who are tired with their shit.

The fact the North is willing to stop it, if they are being sincere, tells me the internal rot in that country has reached critical levels and feelers are going out to find a place to put the proverbial airplane of state down for an emergency landing, because they have only 2 minutes of fuel left, and all their nuclear saber rattling means every airport in the world has long since revoked their landing rights.

A dictatorship doesn't suddenly come to the table unless they're in real trouble.... diplomacy is a fate worse than military defeat for the likes of a NK..... If this goes through, I'd love to live long enough for the documents behind it to be declassified.....
 
TowinKarz said:
The fact the North is willing to stop it, if they are being sincere, tells me the internal rot in that country has reached critical levels and feelers are going out to find a place to put the proverbial airplane of state down for an emergency landing, because they have only 2 minutes of fuel left, and all their nuclear saber rattling means every airport in the world has long since revoked their landing rights.

A dictatorship doesn't suddenly come to the table unless they're in real trouble.... diplomacy is a fate worse than military defeat for the likes of a NK..... If this goes through, I'd love to live long enough for the documents behind it to be declassified.....
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I'm guessing the sanctions are starting to affect Kim and those closest to him. Kim Jong Un's father, Kim Jong Il, presided over the worst conditions that country faced since the Korean War. That didn't stop him from being the single largest customer of Hennessey Cognac in the world.

Communist countries, especially Stalinist states, can treat their people like shit all they want. It's when the higher ups in the political party start suffering that leaders like Kim start shaking in their boots.
 
If true, and it's possible, well, who says capitalism can't do anything good? It may bring a nuclear power to the bargaining table because Kim has run out of Big Macs and is really really jonesin' for one.
 
That fucking snake robot said:
The optimism here is cute, but there is no way the south and north will reunite it would be an economic disaster and the general populations of the two nations have diverged so much it's not funny. Also the only reason this is happening is because their nuke program was completed, they don't need to be aggressive because they have weapons that can threaten China SK Japan and even the USA. Now it's all about stabilizing their economy for any forth and coming wars, this isn't the end at all this is a political play.

We aren't headed for WW3, but something's stirring in NK and it isn't rebellion or rumbles of freedom at all.
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Do we have any real confirmation on that though? They’ve claimed to have done that several times.
Medicated said:
I'm having fun hanging out on various forums and watching people do everything they can to spin it. Trump is desperate for something positive in his Presidency so he'll open up his buttcheeks for NK, to Kim Jong Un is playing 4D chess with everyone.

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Does Skroe still post there? He’s a living breathing dumpster fire of Trump salt.
 
Jewelsmakerguy said:
heard it was because of their main test site having collapsed, requiring it to be permanently dismantled.
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That wouldn't stop the maintaining of their existing tech level, which is somewhere around "miniaturized boosted fission". America hasn't done a nuclear test for longer than most people here have been alive, but nobody says America is about to disarm.
 
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