KR Korean Cold War Officially Over - Leaders shown holding hands and crossing borders

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I love how difficult it is to make information go away in this day and age, it's so easy to make people look like they had and have no idea what they're talking about.
 
NotAKitty said:
Eh, I can’t be the only one who’s getting a bad taste in their mouth from this. Sure, it's a good thing the two countries are opening up to each other, but the fact remains that the Kim family has been responsible for multiple crimes against humanity. Letting Fatty off with a slap on the back and a handshake just shows the other scum out there that they can get away with anything as long as they pretend to play nice.
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Here's the thing, going forward with peace deals the US and South Korea are going to have to be pragmatic. Kim isn't going to agree to anything that can lead to him in front of a tribunal for crimes against humanity, and the US, South Korea, and China aren't going to forcibly remove him unless he strikes first.

Does this mean he will probably go unpunished for his crimes? Unfortunately, yes. We don't know the situation behind the scenes in North Korea, and there is almost certainly a faction within the North's military or political leadership that is against these talks. At this stage forging Kim out of power or trying to put him on trial for crimes against humanity hinders peace talks and risks placing an unknown threat in power.
 
GabeRegan said:
Here's the thing, going forward with peace deals the US and South Korea are going to have to be pragmatic. Kim isn't going to agree to anything that can lead to him in front of a tribunal for crimes against humanity, and the US, South Korea, and China aren't going to forcibly remove him unless he strikes first.

Does this mean he will probably go unpunished for his crimes? Unfortunately, yes. We don't know the situation behind the scenes in North Korea, and there is almost certainly a faction within the North's military or political leadership that is against these talks. At this stage forging Kim out of power or trying to put him on trial for crimes against humanity hinders peace talks and risks placing an unknown threat in power.
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Reminds me of how a lot of stasi and east German politburo got off scot free after the wall fell. It happens and it's life. The bad guy sometimes wins.
 
A few people have mentioned reunification. I really doubt that they will ever properly re-unify. Simple fact is that ordinary South Koreans don't want a caravan of North Korean gypsies moving into and swamping the South.

There is a clear generational gap between South Korean youth and the elderly. Those who were directly affected (ie have family in the North) are all slowly dying off. Young South Koreans have a much lower interest in reunification and the Commies taking a slice of their wealth.
 
The sticking point would be that China would oppose it, and unlike the reunification of Germany, where the USSR was on it's last legs and in no position to stop it, China is on firm enough ground to make good on it.
 
GabeRegan said:
Here's the thing, going forward with peace deals the US and South Korea are going to have to be pragmatic. Kim isn't going to agree to anything that can lead to him in front of a tribunal for crimes against humanity, and the US, South Korea, and China aren't going to forcibly remove him unless he strikes first.

Does this mean he will probably go unpunished for his crimes? Unfortunately, yes. We don't know the situation behind the scenes in North Korea, and there is almost certainly a faction within the North's military or political leadership that is against these talks. At this stage forging Kim out of power or trying to put him on trial for crimes against humanity hinders peace talks and risks placing an unknown threat in power.
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Oh, they're not unknown at all. It's not the slightest bit of a secret that the Korean People's Army (KPA) are North Korea's ruling elite, I mean just look at their mansions, for God's sake. It's been theorized in the past that North Korea's always been something of a 50/50 stand-off between the Kim dynasty and the KPA, effectively holding each other hostage, but now we're suddenly not really hearing much of anything at all out of the KPA, and to my knowledge they haven't been making any appearances in any of the news cycles surrounding this story.

I am really, really curious as to where the KPA is in all of this, and I have absolutely no evidence at all to back it up yet, but I'm starting to wonder if the KPA wasn't one of the bigger issues in North Korea this whole time, and the reason that North Korea is suddenly so cooperative all across the board is because the KPA just isn't as much of a problem, anymore. We never did learn what exactly the U.S.S. Jimmy Carter was doing out there, after all, and those submarines have some pretty interesting specifications.

But that's all so far out into "wild speculation" territory that it's almost not worth talking about until we see where all the KPA generals are, but if a whole buttload of those guys are inexplicably missing, I'm gonna' wind up having one intensely-piqued curiousity.
 
This is just for show, a bit of posturing to let NK continue to exist in the face of Trump's interference in the region. North Korean leaders have a long history of making lofty peace treaties or proclamations with a billion little contingencies that all come together to spell out 'we can continue to murder our own population indiscriminately and nobody gets to do anything about it'.
 
SadClownMan said:
Don't get me wrong, this is amazing news, but we shouldn't be to comfy with them yet (if at all). They've, in past, have "agreed" to no more nuclear weapons testing and have broke those agreements many times.
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I think it just means they've come up with a nuke and don't need to test them anymore. There's probably more than meets the eye going on behind the scenes anyway, I don't expect the average North Korean being able to leave or freely mingle with outsiders anytime soon.

There was a rumor that the testing facility had collapsed and killed most of the engineers.
 
It's HK-47 said:
Oh, they're not unknown at all. It's not the slightest bit of a secret that the Korean People's Army (KPA) are North Korea's ruling elite, I mean just look at their mansions, for God's sake. It's been theorized in the past that North Korea's always been something of a 50/50 stand-off between the Kim dynasty and the KPA, effectively holding each other hostage, but now we're suddenly not really hearing much of anything at all out of the KPA, and to my knowledge they haven't been making any appearances in any of the news cycles surrounding this story.

I am really, really curious as to where the KPA is in all of this, and I have absolutely no evidence at all to back it up yet, but I'm starting to wonder if the KPA wasn't one of the bigger issues in North Korea this whole time, and the reason that North Korea is suddenly so cooperative all across the board is because the KPA just isn't as much of a problem, anymore. We never did learn what exactly the U.S.S. Jimmy Carter was doing out there, after all, and those submarines have some pretty interesting specifications.

But that's all so far out into "wild speculation" territory that it's almost not worth talking about until we see where all the KPA generals are, but if a whole buttload of those guys are inexplicably missing, I'm gonna' wind up having one intensely-piqued curiousity.
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I don't mean to get all Alex Jones up in here, but I'm starting to think we may have Red Alert 2ed their ass with our SEALs in secret. You don't just put a sub that can carry 50 special forces operators on the shore of an enemy and not deploy 50 fucking special ops, SEALs aren't threat weapons like carriers or destroyers or missle cruisers they're fucking action weapons that no one is supposed to see or hear about, you can't make threats with something like that so it really doesn't make any tactical sense to just garrison a sub like that... hmmm, interesting situation to say the least.
 
That fucking snake robot said:
I don't mean to get all Alex Jones up in here, but I'm starting to think we may have Red Alert 2ed their ass with our SEALs in secret. You don't just put a sub that can carry 50 special forces operators on the shore of an enemy and not deploy 50 fucking special ops, SEALs aren't threat weapons like carriers or destroyers or missle cruisers they're fucking action weapons that no one is supposed to see or hear about, you can't make threats with something like that so it really doesn't make any tactical sense to just garrison a sub like that... hmmm, interesting situation to say the least.
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Like I said, it's just a wild speculation. We don't have any solid evidence one way or the other, but I'm definitely gonna' be looking much more closely at who in the KPA is even still alive. If those rosters are suddenly way more empty than they used to be, we'll pretty much know why and how that happened.
 
I would be cautious about making future projections based off of this. There's still a possibility that Kim Jong-Un may still be playing the highly unpredictable diplomatic strategy that he's been employing for the past several years; keep opposing powers perpetually confused on their toes by constantly flitting around the message and ethos sent out by the DPRK and thus capitalise upon their inability to formulate a coherent counter based upon their attempts to systemise the seemingly random behaviour exhibited by the Norks.

This isn't meant to be pointlessly cautious, but KJU has clearly got a good thing going by constantly cycling between hot and cold as he has over the past several years. Although I think it's likely his end game may have been to force the South to the table and ensure that he had maximal leverage to extract the best peace deal and trade arrangements possible, it's hard to tell whether that is the case and he may leverage this deal for something more.
 
kinglordsupreme19 said:
I would be cautious about making future projections based off of this.
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Not only should people be cautious about this, they should take no stock in it what-so-ever until the north does something concrete. There is no harmonious way forward for them if they wish to maintain their current system (and they do), the best we could possibly get out of this would be a continuation of the prickly status quo.
 
Sexy Potoo said:
Homefront is the game you are mentioning correct?

Anyways, while I am seriously skeptical of this actually uniting Korea, it still means a lot that Kim actually did this.

If nothing else, it shows he is afraid of Trump. He would never had bothered doing this with Obama.
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There are rumours that the primary nuclear base used for building atomic bombs in North Korea blew by a failed test and caved in. Pretty much sending all the North Korean nuclear technology back to the stone age. And supposedly this is the reason why Kim suddenly is all "lets be friends!" lol.

*edit*

This in sum of the news of the John McCain and the Marines in submarines.. makes the whole puzzle fit even better.

Sounds like Trump authorized a special attack, sabotaged North Korea's military complexes and told him to play nice or he will be nuclear dust and the inspiration for a future METRO game setting.
 
This is both pretty cool & good, but let me go a head and just take a big ol' shit in everyone's feel good cheerios:
Unification will not happen because no one in power wants it to. And really nothing much will change, the war's been over for 60 years; South Korea has an industrial park in North Korea FFS.

There's a good book (slightly out of date, written when Kim Jong Il was alive) called "The Cleanest Race" and they make a good point that Korea has remained divided because everyone in power wants it to stay that way.

North Korea's leader ship doesn't want reunification for obvious reasons.

South Korea doesn't want to be responsible for the care & feeding of a sudden influx of brainwashed re-re's. This is to say nothing of internal racism.

China doesn't want North Korea to go away, because they won't be able to exert near absolute influence over a unified Korea; they'll now have another hostile population of TCOTs (those chinks over there) on their border. NK also supplies them with resources. Norks are the Chinese answer to the US's trabajo mexicans.

And the US doesn't want reunification because its pretty obvious that when the Koreas reunify, the bases in SK are going to be cleared out very quickly, which reduces strategic leverage over China. It also means SK, one of our more consistent Asian allies, will now be less consistent.

Anyway, Trump is ending the longest running modern war, so that means his Nobel Peace prize will be in the mail, right? I mean, that's more than Obama ever did for world peace. So he's a shoe in. I mean that's got to be how it works, so he's got that locked up. Right?
 
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