Normally North Korea news goes in the mega thread but this is probably the biggest thing since the Berlin Wall came down and deserves it's own stand alone. You can see the meeting between the two leaders and crossing each others' boarders while holding hands for pictures before the peace summit.
While this is fantastic news, I have to agree with Cosmos that the most important thing is still the human rights abuses that are still going on in NK. I'm not sure Un has a great option to deal with it, either. Even if the camps were closed tomorrow and everyone was set free, that doesn't erase what was done. If Un has to take responsibility, then he'll almost certainly be convicted of human rights abuses; I have no idea what they do to people who get convicted of that but I bet it's not good. If he throws some crazy generals under the bus for immunity, there's a chance he could be found dead of "suicide" with two bullets in the back of his head.
Maybe I'm just cynical, but I doubt this will last. North Korea has acted friendly to improve diplomatic relations numerous times in the past, only to eventually walk back on it, so I'm pretty skeptical about this being a genuine offer for a long lasting peace. The only reason I can think of that KJU would actually vie for peace would be if President Xi is twisting his arm. North Korea is very much at the whim of what China wants, and it's certainly not in the interests for the Chinese government to have an aggressive NK. But at the same time, China doesn't want to lose NK due to the strategic value they have. Even then though, Kim Jong-un stays in power, so again this is probably just him playing the field diplomatically.
While this is fantastic news, I have to agree with Cosmos that the most important thing is still the human rights abuses that are still going on in NK. I'm not sure Un has a great option to deal with it, either. Even if the camps were closed tomorrow and everyone was set free, that doesn't erase what was done. If Un has to take responsibility, then he'll almost certainly be convicted of human rights abuses; I have no idea what they do to people who get convicted of that but I bet it's not good. If he throws some crazy generals under the bus for immunity, there's a chance he could be found dead of "suicide" with two bullets in the back of his head.
This is going to be a discussion I'm certain we'll be seeing a lot of, and I'm positive that it's going to piss me off to no end. I have no doubt that we'll be seeing article after article written by war-mongering chimps about how we should hang and eviscerate Kim Jong Un at the first available opportunity for what he allowed to happen in his country, and while that would doubtlessly be endlessly satisfying to the untold masses, it's also incredibly stupid.
What's the end-game there, exactly, killing Kim Jong or threatening him with a war crimes tribunal, and causing the entire deal to get flung off the table when one of his generals or politicians steps in to fill the power vacuum that creates, like it has every single time we tried that in the past in the Middle East? The important part is that this finally stops. If that means Kim Jong Un walks (waddles?) or fades into irrelevancy, who cares? An entire nation of men, women and children will finally be free of the oppression of a multi-generational tyranny and all we have to trade for it is one fat guy who's probably going to pass away from heart failure in the next ten years?
From the raw numbers alone, that's a good fuckin' deal in my book, I say we take it.
This is great and all but how will reunification impact the StarCraft scene? Will Norks be allowed to compete in GSL? Will North Korea be WCS Circuit or WCS Korea? Will they compete separately for NationWars and IEM even after unification like England and Scotland do in football?
What's the end-game there, exactly, killing Kim Jong or threatening him with a war crimes tribunal, and causing the entire deal to get flung off the table when one of his generals or politicians steps in to fill the power vacuum that creates, like it has every single time we tried that in the past in the Middle East? The important part is that this finally stops. If that means Kim Jong Un walks (waddles?) or fades into irrelevancy, who cares? An entire nation of men, women and children will finally be free of the oppression of a multi-generational tyranny and all we have to trade for it is one fat guy who's probably going to pass away from heart failure in the next ten years?
Yeah, I definitely agree that the best option is to get rid of the camps but not punish Un. I think that's what Trump will do, since he seems to know what he's doing here. I'm just worried about some other country trying to force punishment as a UN thing, or Trump's successor, whoever that may be, trying to punish Un because they think it'll net them an easy increase in approval ratings.
Pretty good viddy and I'm glad the Korea war is over or whatever but did anyone else think that they held hands for a bit too long?? I mean I'm happy that Norea and Sorea are m8s again but don't you think they overdid it on the hand holding? I think if you hold longer than 5 seconds or if you walk while doing it then I'm pretty sure it counts as gay but I'm not an expert.
Pretty good viddy and I'm glad the Korea war is over or whatever but did anyone else think that they held hands for a bit too long?? I mean I'm happy that Norea and Sorea are m8s again but don't you think they overdid it on the hand holding? I think if you hold longer than 5 seconds or if you walk while doing it then I'm pretty sure it counts as gay but I'm not an expert.
Neither, chances are they'll stay separate for a very long time.
North koreas GDP is 12 billion
while South koreas is in the trillions.
Infact; what south korea spends on military alone is about 30 billion
that's 3 times north koreas entire GDP
It's in the best interest of south Korea to not take them in as it would require a lot.
Best comparison is east and west Germany.
When they reunited it sort of tanked the west side of the country and the economic difference can still be felt today. Plus they had to ignore a lot of bad abuses that happened.
And remember, this was east Germany, the shining beacon of what socialism had to offer, the most well-off iron curtain country.
I can't even imagine what a reunification would look like without completly ruining South Korea. The german reunification with the GDR was immensively expensive and economic effects are still felt today and the GDR wasn't even approaching to be anywhere close to the bad shape North Korea is in. It was in fact one of the countries the eastern bloc used as propaganda in how well socialism works. There's still higher rates of unemployment and people are generally poorer in east Germany. Also West Germany let a lot of very bad things (human rights violations etc.) that happened in E. Germany more or less "slide" so that the reunification would work quicker and better. I have no idea how that could ever happen with the atrocities North Korea committed and still commits to this very moment. It really cannot happen.
I don't think this means all that much to be honest, it's the usually ebb and flow of the quality of relations with North Korea. That ride will never end. Only thing that could ever end North Korea is North Korea itself, meaning a collapse from the inside. Even that would be catastrophic.
There is also some other aspect that Kim might want; He might want to be the north korean version of Deng Xiaoping, the Chinese leader that opened his country economically and led soft reforms after agreements with President Jimmy Carter. rebuilding his country economically while still being it's own thing
Communism with Chinese characteristics as they called it.
All in all I think it depends on if you believe this kim is a cruel psychopath like his ancestors or you believe he really want a better Korea.
Deng was no mao zedong
maybe this Kim isn't his grandfather?
The optimism here is cute, but there is no way the south and north will reunite it would be an economic disaster and the general populations of the two nations have diverged so much it's not funny. Also the only reason this is happening is because their nuke program was completed, they don't need to be aggressive because they have weapons that can threaten China SK Japan and even the USA. Now it's all about stabilizing their economy for any forth and coming wars, this isn't the end at all this is a political play.
We aren't headed for WW3, but something's stirring in NK and it isn't rebellion or rumbles of freedom at all.
There goes Drumpf, stealing the glory that was rightfully Hillary's! It will be as bad as the post 9-11 press bemoaning the fact that the attacks didn't happen before Bush took over because they cost Clinton his "chance" to be a great leader in a time of crisis.... instead of just getting blowjobs under his desk as a boring old prosperous 90's economy rumbled along.
Not like he really can. After all, his regular testing site is gone, dismantled between both the collapse that destroyed it and the whole peace talks deal. And if he were to move, everyone would know. Especially since it could still trigger a potential radiation leak on top of breaking a promise.
Either way, it's amazing news. I just wonder what Japan thinks about South Korea, China and America finally getting into peace talks with their biggest enemy.
