KR Korean Cold War Officially Over - Leaders shown holding hands and crossing borders

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So (to be serious for a moment.), as long as China doesn't interfere (which they could, seeing as there's ), I could slowly see more NK citizens break themselves free from propaganda. However, it's gonna take a couple of generations to undo all of that "NK is the best" brainwashing still affecting the masses who haven't willingly exposed themselves to the bootleg Western movie market prominent throughout the North to learn the truth about their shitty situation.

At the same time, it'll also help if the US don't get their hands too dirty here for once (but that's only if NK/China don't try something crazy themselves anytime soon, either.).

BEST Korea, as lovely a meme it was, cannot really be allowed exist anymore as a feasible notion if Korea is truly allowed to move forward and prevent some outer foreign power messing with it in the near future.

See also: untapped exploitable resources in said region that aren't a part of NK recently achieving full nuclearization on their own time.
 
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It’s ironic that this is due in large part to Trump. For years N. Korea was able to act like a angry six year old raging against the responsible, stable US and SK parental figures - always knowing they would remain stoic, patient in the face of their antics and stunts.

Then Trump was elected and instead of a stable parental figure in the US you now had a angry toddler that needed a nap.

I guess it shouldn’t be a big surprise that Jong-Un was open to dealing with Trump since up to now the only other American he was interested in talking to was Dennis Rodman. Trump is right up his pop-culture personality cult alley.
 
Both my Granddads were in the Korean war. Shame they didn't live to see this.
 
This is a great development, but I won't trust anything until it is in writing and signed. I am happy that all the different factors coincide at the same moment for this to actually be so close, the rumoured destruction of their nuclear testing site obviously has had a significant effect as this would be a significant blow to their possibility to develop nuclear weapons, which would need to have them change their international political positions, as has the position of Trump, as well as certain sanctions and some of the influence China exerted. I do wonder how the border will be when there is an actual conclusion to the war, as this will need to be guarded about the same as it does now if Kim Jong-Un wants his rule to remain the same and to exert the same amount of control.
 
The guy bluffed his way to a win holding a pair of three's. Fucking amazing. Seven months ago we thought we'd be invading DPRK, now it's starting to look like Kim Jong Un will get court side tickets to the next NBA plaffoffs.
 
So, real talk:
How much of this is actually thanks to Trump?

This isn't me saying "Trump didn't do shit!" or "Trump is a 4D chess master!", I'm legitimately just an uninformed tard that wants to hear what people who actually know about the situation think.
 
While it would be natural to be cautious, or even cynical about all this one can't help but be a little hopeful. So many people have died since the Korean war started 50 years ago, millions of people probably total. And the average north Korean has suffered conditions no human should have to. There has always only been one Korea, and one Korean people, they still have no recovered from WW2 and what Japan did to them, but they are an ancient country and civilization. I'm under no illusion that the kims have any intention of giving up some kind of power but maybe the people can start to have some progress towards reunification.
 
Manly-Chicken said:
So, real talk:
How much of this is actually thanks to Trump?

This isn't me saying "Trump didn't do shit!" or "Trump is a 4D chess master!", I'm legitimately just an uninformed tard that wants to hear what people who actually know about the situation think.
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It's just timing really. Would've never happened under Kim Jong Il. NK is getting to the point where it can't sustain itself to even keep manufacturing a war machine, so maybe fat boy just wants to actually trade and do business with other countries.
 
Moritsune said:
Thats nice they're holding hands and all. Now can someone please do something about the constant violations of human rights in North Korea incl. Public executions, concentration camps, prisoners with sentences spanning generations, and the list goes on?
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Keystone said:
Yeah it's certainly worth remembering that despite this historic moment those death camps where the entire families of defectors and escapees are still going at this very moment.
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There is literally a rule called "three generations of punishment." This means that, if one person is found guilty of a crime (typically a political crime, like speaking out against the regime) and sent to a prison camp, so too will their entire family. The subsequent two generations born in the camp will also have to stay there for life. There's a North Korean defector named Shin Dong-hyuk who was born in a prison camp and has spoken about his experiences growing up there. If you're interested in reading more about just how atrocious these "reeducation camps" are, The Committee for Human Rights in North Korea has published many thorough documents about them.

Until these camps are abolished, I don't have much hope for North Korea. This is a great first step, but until North Korea shows any interest in fixing their abysmal human rights record I'm going to be skeptical.
 
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This was only six months ago. Look how far we've come, since. There are very good reasons that I constantly tout unbridled, endless optimism. The world is changing for the better faster than people yet understand, and everyone who wants to drag us backwards into the abhorrent negativity of the past can do nothing to stop it.

It's all about letting them "save face" for once, instead of trying to do what we've always done in the past by grinding a dictator's face into the dirt. It never worked. It made everything worse, so that strategy's off the table. Now, these regime leaders get to function as the catalyst for their country's change. This is how all of the regimes are going to "fall" because this is the only strategy in history that has proven to work. Everyone gets to save face.
 
Great day.
I want to know if seaweed deux ex-tranny has something to say about this with all his inappropriate Drumpf hatred.
 
Manly-Chicken said:
So, real talk:
How much of this is actually thanks to Trump?

This isn't me saying "Trump didn't do shit!" or "Trump is a 4D chess master!", I'm legitimately just an uninformed tard that wants to hear what people who actually know about the situation think.
Click to expand...

As with everything, the truth lies somewhere in the middle. For something huge like this, no one person can take credit; it's spread out among many. Trump has been the first President since Truman to be aggressive with North Korea, not cowering and giving concessions to their constant threats. Who knew that standing up to a bully was more effective? South Korea's foreign minister, Kang Kyung-wha, gave President Trump credit for helping to get North Korea to the negotiating table (https://twitter.com/camanpour/status/989423486438379520).
On the flip side, without pressure from other countries, namely China, North Korea's closest political ally and economic dependent, these peace talks don't happen. Trump gave Chinese President Xi credit (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/989834048796266498), acknowledging China's role. It probably helped that Trump was aggressive with China, as well, but we don't know to what extent of a role that played in China's North Korean policies.
Trump Xi.jpg

Credit has to be given to Kim for reaching out in the first place, I'm sure it wasn't easy for him to come to that decision and risk a possible backlash. Same with South Korean President Moon.

So the answer is that everybody involved deserves credit, and that ignoring their share of it just because you don't like them (Trump didn't do shit!) or you want to prop up one person in particular (4D Chess!) is pure ignorance. This is international diplomacy, after all. The right people at the right time have to come together to make the right decisions.
 
I wished we had more leaders like Trump; someone who doesn't bow down to the establishment and gets the job done no matter what and doesn't give a shit what the media says. With Korean reunification in process, does that mean there will be a sharp rise in the e-sports industry? Make e-sports not war!
 
Manly-Chicken said:
So, real talk:
How much of this is actually thanks to Trump?

This isn't me saying "Trump didn't do shit!" or "Trump is a 4D chess master!", I'm legitimately just an uninformed tard that wants to hear what people who actually know about the situation think.
Click to expand...
It is quite difficult to say, but I believe the problem with the unpredictability of Trump could well have played a significant role, especially in combination with his statements that could be led to Japan and South Korea to start developing their own nuclear weapons. However what I think is more significant is the destruction of their nuclear weapon testing site (without which they will not be able to test nuclear weapons for several years if they can even find another appropriate site which is quite difficult for underground testing). Without the threat of new nuclear weapons and the capability of testing them they would need to alter their approach as atmospheric testing would rain down hell on North Korea. So I am not saying this would be the case without Trump, but at the same time I am not sure whether he will actually have been a deciding factor. In reality it is difficult to say due to the lack of insight into North Korean decision making, it could even be so easy as Kim Jong-Un wanting to have some South Korean food (I am exaggerating of course, but just to say it is difficult to truly determine the most decisive factors)
 
I am cautiously optimistic about this, and I am inclined to believe that Kim Jong Un wants this more than anyone else. The first impression of hearing about him might make it seem like he's got it made and that he can play little fat king all day with no worries other than China and surrounding countries that don't like North Korea, but the thing that poses the biggest danger to him might just be North Korea itself. Peter Zeihan explains a hypothesis about Kim Jong Un's power plays in the world in this video. Starts near the end 1:05:30
 
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