Kenshi - Post-Apocalyptic Weeb cousin of Mount & Blade

[Preacher ✝]

I like Kenshi.



So allow me to address some of the criticism levied against it.

First, I acknowledge its got subpar visuals, doesn't hold your hand, and benefits immensely from mods. Right now I'm running 41 mods.

In a sense, I genuinely believe that Fallout New Vegas is a better Kenshi on almost all aspects.

Is anyone saying otherwise? That seems like such a weird comparison. FNV is part of a long standing IP developed by a professional studio and Kenshi was made almost entirely by one guy. Anyone going into Kenshi expecting it to compete with FNV is nuts.

Kenshi forces you to grind to explore without getting raped at random

To be fair the one skill you actually need to grind to explore is stealth and stealth is really easy to grind. I can get a character from 0 to over 60 stealth in a matter of minutes. Once you get over 30 stealth you can do the naruto run which makes traversing the map without getting in random fights very easy. This process also increases your athletics which helps you get away from anyone who does aggro on you.

True sandboxes like Terraria or Minecraft let you explore from the get-go without it being objectively a bad play.

I've played both of those and I have to disagree.

Minecraft, unless you're playing on creative or peaceful, forces you to at least acquire some food and basic gear to effectively explore. Otherwise you'll starve and/or get killed by mobs at night. In normal play mode you cannot spawn into a new Minecraft world and just explore without anything.

Terraria is the same, you can go left and right but there are enemies to contend with and obstacles to overcome, both of which require some prep work. However since I've played it the least I know I might be wrong about it, so if you want to post a video of you spawning into a new Terraria world and exploring to the bottom of the pictured structure without any gear or preparation, I'll concede the point.

You can lack a structure if you truly offer tons of actual freedom, but Kenshi doesn't

I suppose this is subject to your standards for actual freedom, but to me Kenshi has plenty of it.

In my current play through I have a group of 9 martial artists called the Fists of Freedom that have allied with the Sheks, overthrown the Holy Nation, and are moving to topple the United Cities next. My main character is Beep (I used a mod to start as Beep but you can just make a normal start and get Beep pretty quickly), and the Shek name Beep as Kin, Battle Born, and an honorary invincible. I can walk up to patrols of Shek and command them to follow me for 3 days, no charge.

In a previous play through created a group of Holy Nation Crusaders, made a base in Okran's Pride, crafted my own weapons and armor, then sent them out on Crusades against the Sheks, the Cannibals, the Hivers, the Skeletons, the United Cities, and the swamp gangs. Did you know you can take captured enemies to Rebirth and sell them? Or if you get high enough reputation with the Holy Nation people will refer to you by name and say stuff like "Stay Shining Brightly Holy *player name*" when you're in HN towns? Once you get the Holy Seal of the Phoenix you can command any patrol of HN troops you find, including the massive patrols of like 40 dudes in Bast.

In a playthrough before that I did a solo assassin run, turning in almost every bounty without combat. Stealth and Assassination are the only skills you truly need for bounties.

Those are just a few drastically different examples but my point is that you have the freedom to do those things and shape the world, so what more freedom do you want?

And the start of the game is a crucial component, why would I want to explore if everything the game taught me in the first 2 towns I saw is that no NPC has anything to say and the towns are boring and soulless?

Have you tried any of the starting options besides Wanderer? I know it's the one that says "this is how the game was meant to be played" but there are other options for a reason.

The notion that no NPC has anything to say is simply false. There is quite a lot of dialogue, some of which only plays with certain combinations of unique followers, but not all of it comes from your party either. You can walk up to Tengu, the leader of the United Cities, and speak to him. He will instruct you to go on a farce of a quest before laughing about it. You can go join the Anti-Slavers under the legendary Tinfist and he will have new dialogue every time you topple a significant portion of the United Cities and Traders Guild empire. There are characters who love and hate just about every faction in the game. If you walk through Shek lands carrying the defeated Bugmaster they will hail you as a champion.

As far as the towns go, the Hub sucks. I hardly ever visit the Hub because there's almost nothing there, just one bar and a Shinobi Thieves tower, the latter of which is actually useful sometimes. If you're judging the quality of the game's towns off the Hub alone you're making a big mistake. Having explored all of them, my favorite town is Mongrel, it has pretty much everything you need and an endless amount of Fogmen to train against.

Anyway I've gone on long enough. I'm not trying to say Kenshi is without flaws, that it's the greatest game ever made, or anything of the sort. If you don't like Kenshi, and don't want to play Kenshi, that's fine. Just don't expect to be able to levy inaccurate criticism without some push back from those of us who do like it.

Finally, if you want a better understanding of the appeal of Kenshi I recommend checking out some of the videos by Ambigious Amphibian, such as these.

 

[Nox Was Right]

I like Kenshi.

I have played a lot more of Kenshi since my last post, and I've come to like a lot about the game, but it's still currently abandonware with glaring issues that will sadly remain unaddressed for at least a few years before the sequel is out. The intro of the game remains poor in that the Hub is an interesting location, being a place of conflict between the HN and SK, but nobody in the city tells you about this in any way. I compared it to FNV because it would not take much effort to add a few lines of dialogue to the barman of the Hub, that's an oversight, not a demanding task. FNV gave you a lot of freedom, but still gave you some lore basics without any of it being force-feeding. You have the rebel bar close by, but no one tells you what they're even supposed to be rebelling against. Just a few lines would go a long way to immersing the player, which is weird because after you persist and for example find the Flotsam Ninjas, then you get good dialogue that actually informs you. Overall, the intro is weaker than the actual game and is a disservice to its actual quality.

Kenshi does require quite some grinding of strength and toughness at least to not get mogged by everything you encounter. You can grind some decent combat stats like dexterity and weapon skill by fighting river raptors with very basic micro, but a noob won't know that.

Your stories are well and good, but they're basically all about fighting, and while fighting is good, I do believe it hurts the freedom aspect that there exists so few honest methods of working especially early game. Sure you can brew alcohol later in the game to get money, but when you spawn in, you cannot just join a farm to labor there and get money, you cannot really hunt animals, your only honest method of making money that doesn't involve looting bodies is mining. 2 or 3 other methods of early honest money-making would help a long way, because you factually cannot be a farmer for example without engaging in combat via the settlement system and being raided. Kenshi basically forces you into becoming a fighter to survive when civilians in the game don't have to.

As for the bugs, some are really aggravating, such as a gate guard picking up my character, and then never moving anywhere, standing there forever until my character starves to death with nothing to do to stop this without another character.

All in all, Kenshi is a good game, it's also a really buggy piece of shit, it allows for a lot of good story-telling but pigeon-holes you into being a fighter through a lack of honest means of work, it has good characters and a good world but a terrible starting area in that regard. Kenshi is good, but it could be better, through some polish and improvements, and I really hope it will get the push it deserves in the future.

 

[Preacher ✝]

All in all, Kenshi is a good game, it's also a really buggy piece of shit, it allows for a lot of good story-telling but pigeon-holes you into being a fighter through a lack of honest means of work, it has good characters and a good world but a terrible starting area in that regard. Kenshi is good, but it could be better, through some polish and improvements, and I really hope it will get the push it deserves in the future.

I acknowledge that Kenshi lacks some polish, but I am inclined to give it more of a pass on that considering it was largely developed by one guy and took him quite some time already.

It is a combat focused game, and if that's not what you want it does really limit your options, especially if you don't consider being a fast and stealthy for thievery and assassinations to be honest work. The world of Kenshi is brutal and cruel, it doesn't beget honest work because there are plenty of people who will simply fight you to take the fruits of that labor. One way around this is to stay in towns, buy property (small buildings are usually 2k-4k cats, less if they need to be rebuilt) and set up some form of workshop, starting with research and then expanding to more profitable manufacturing or even hydroponic farming. When you have to venture into the world for research unlocking materials you can use early profits to hire mercenaries or be stealthy.

That said like most beloved but under-cooked games the modding scene for Kenshi is rich and it benefits immensely from mods. I've personally never looked for a mod that adds join able farms or more forms of honest work but it wouldn't surprise me if one is out there. For my current martial arts run I added some mods that provide more training methods so I can simplify the grind, which is especially helpful with multiple characters. Using these mods you could start in the hub, buy a cheap building, set up some the training equipment, and grind skills that way until you're a bit more combat ready for the world. In my case I actually ground Beep's skills the old fashioned way, for the most part, on an initial playthrough then dismissed everyone but him, imported the save, and started over by basically making a Martial Arts Dojo and Armor Workshop in Mongrel.

Another thing to note is how OP the combination of speed and ranged combat is. With a crossbow and good running your ability to win fights against melee opponents is only limited by how much ammo you have. This is especially helpful early game because you can hunt slow animals like River Raptors from a safe distance and train up your dexterity in the process. Another reason Mongrel is my favorite town is for hunting Fog Princes and taking their heads worth 6k each. There is the risk of being eaten if you mess up and get captured but you ususally have an opportunity to escape, or you can just play a Skeleton character so they can't eat you.

Speaking of which the Skeleton race is worth considering for new players. You don't have to eat and you can't be eaten. Yes repair kits are more expensive than medkits and skeleton repair beds are a lot harder to find but that also forces you to explore while you look for them. Theres a rentable one at the tech hunter waystation to the East of the Hub, and the one in Burn's tower is free to use.

Finally, you really should try the other starting options. I know, the wanderer start in the Hub says "this is how the game was meant to be played" but to be honest I consider it one of the weakest options of the lot. The others almost all have something more compelling about them and at least some semblance of an initial goal.

 

[Nox Was Right]

It is a combat focused game, and if that's not what you want it does really limit your options,

I like combat, it's just that the actual game doesn't really have much freedom in how you get money and fighting easily becomes mandatory. It's just the combination of wrong marketing + lackluster intro that was hard to get through. For mods, I have a few but not many because almost every comment section is filled with people complaining about bugs and I don't wanna troubleshoot for hours. The tips you give are good but I mostly already know them, I always create a human though because I just like not playing an abomination.

Finally, you really should try the other starting options.

I did try literally 20 times the Empire Citizen start, that place is hell, death to the UC. A noble shot me in the leg and almost tore it off, for absolutely no reason, just for his amusement. And if I alt-tab 3 seconds, a skimmer spawns out of the sand and kills me. Anyway I do manage to get to the mid-game with a bit of luck and a non-shitty start.

 

[Preacher ✝]

it's just that the actual game doesn't really have much freedom in how you get money and fighting easily becomes mandatory.

One of my favorite ways to make money early game is to mug the wandering groups of Skeletons on the Arm of Okran mountain paths south of World's End. You can fight them, but stealth and assassination is more effective. They tend to carry Nodachi katanas worth 6-9k each and travel in groups of 2-4. Sneak up, knock em out, steal the katanas and repair kits, then leg it before they wake up. Sometimes they also have Holy Nation bounties and you can take the Skeleton and turn them in for an additional couple thousand if you're not hostile with the Holy Nation. Since you play a human you should be fine.

I did try literally 20 times the Empire Citizen start, that place is hell, death to the UC.

Speaking of which, maybe try the Holy Nation Citizen start instead, or one of the others like Holy Sword, Son of a Captain, or even Rock Bottom. Guy with Dog is also fun.

On another note, you can, if you choose, completely topple the UC by taking out the nobles, leaders, and slave masters. If you find the Anti-Slaver faction and join them that's basically their questline.

 

[Jose Beaner Luna]

To be fair the one skill you actually need to grind to explore is stealth

Wrong, the only 2 skills that actually matter in general fr fr no cap on god is toughness and athletics, everything else is irrelevant, your best weapon in early game is literally just running and toughness is a must if you dont want to die to a ramdom starving bandit, in vanilla settings, once you reach 20 toughness (wich is not hard to achieve) a starving bandit literally cannot kill you, even if you are naked, any start of a game must begin with getting enough athletics up until you reach 21mph wich is enough to outrun everything that is not a beakthing, if you manage to get wooden sandals by luring starving bandits to gateguards is even easier to obtain such speed with less time spent grinding plus it gives you combat speed effect wich is awesome to land 2 extra hits if you manage to stumble the enemy.

Sure you can brew alcohol later in the game to get money, but when you spawn in, you cannot just join a farm to labor there and get money, you cannot really hunt animals, your only honest method of making money that doesn't involve looting bodies is mining. 2 or 3 other methods of early honest money-making would help a long way, because you factually cannot be a farmer for example without engaging in combat via the settlement system and being raided. Kenshi basically forces you into becoming a fighter to survive when civilians in the game don't have to.

Oh but civilians do have to fight to survive, is a common trend among the game that people has lost their jobs either because of bandits or taken by any of the big factions like the UC, the only "safe" farmers are holy nation ones and thats because of the holy patrols, if you do the holy peasant start and make a farm in the holy lands is one of the safest most boring zones to settle because nothing ever happens save for raptor raids (or you are a non human in wich case they are comming for that ass). Infact, one of the reasons why the UC has resorted to brutal slavery is because they have no access to easy fertile lands save the hook and the hook is currently being harassed by wildlife, the bugmaster and fishmen, the only other place they have for farming is the great desert and it sucks, this is why they made Bast as an attempt to take part of the Holy Land's fertility to grow crops but the Holy Nation took it as an attempt to take over and raided the fucking place. Infact if you topple the HN as a UC ally the first thing they do is turn many of the holy mines and farms into slave camps for food. If you go to the hook and shun you'll notice a lot of former UC towns destroyed and many infested by spiders, showing that these places got raided by the bugmaster's bugs, as well dialogues from the Empire Peasants and generic drifter recruits complaining about poverty because of taxes or their farm lands outright taken away by bandits or otherwise.

A playthrough trying to make an honest living IS possible, does it take a lot of work? sure but it can be done, im doing one myself rn selling only trade goods (but drugs) one of the first thing i did once i got enough money from grog and cloth was to hire mercs to defend my shithole while one of my hives was in full farm and brewing duty, all the fallen bandit armors thanks to my niggas the merc guild was melted and turned into iron for plates, far more efficient than mining it, if shit gets rough i get into the house, lock the door and shoot them with turrets since the bugs are still quite frail (as im not grinding stats because is more fun that way) until they go away or my mercs finish them off, i like to think this is the equivalent of a redneck pulling up a shotgun when a nigger tries to steal from him.
The point is that yes the game is very combat oriented because the world is cruel and also combat oriented but there are ways you can circumvent this without cheesing it, either by making the base close to a town and running when shit gets rough or hire mercs to defend your base and make sure to pay their wages every time the contract runs out so they stay there until you stop paying or they all die (i think this method doesnt work if you just tell them to bodyguard you).

Speaking of which the Skeleton race is worth considering for new players. You don't have to eat and you can't be eaten. Yes repair kits are more expensive than medkits and skeleton repair beds are a lot harder to find but that also forces you to explore while you look for them. Theres a rentable one at the tech hunter waystation to the East of the Hub, and the one in Burn's tower is free to use.

This, skeletons are the easy mode option disguised as a playable race.

I like combat, it's just that the actual game doesn't really have much freedom in how you get money and fighting easily becomes mandatory. It's just the combination of wrong marketing + lackluster intro that was hard to get through. For mods, I have a few but not many because almost every comment section is filled with people complaining about bugs and I don't wanna troubleshoot for hours. The tips you give are good but I mostly already know them, I always create a human though because I just like not playing an abomination.

A good way to make a lot of "honest" money that the game kind of poorly hints at you is to invest and sell somewhere else, this mechanic is mainly seen on drugs but it also applies to alcohol, you see rum, wich is sold in the borderzone, has A LOT of value in the swamp and if you buy sake from the swamp it has also a lot of value in the borderzone and UC cities, so if you start with the wanderer start you can just buy a lot of rum, train your athletics a little or lure starving bandits to the bar to get beat up and steal their crocs then go to the swamp and sell the rum to the closest village and buy the sake on your return trip to sell in the boderzone again, you get 10k easy after inverting on the first batch, this mechanic really inspired me to do some personal changes in my personal mod to encourage this kind of merchant playthrough, also some processed materials like iron plates have a % number, if the number is red it means that when you sell it its value will be worth more but also if you directly buy it the price will be major and if the number is green means that the value is lower in that zone but if you buy it will cost less, this changes to biome to biome and i believe it changes after a couple of days, you can also just scavenge ruins and sell the stuff to the best price range, the ruins have shit like armor plates and cores that sell for 1000 each and the price increases if the % is red, there is a lot of those ruins in the borderzone you can scavenge for a little bit of starting cash to get the rum/sake jewish scheme going.

On another note, you can, if you choose, completely topple the UC by taking out the nobles, leaders, and slave masters. If you find the Anti-Slaver faction and join them that's basically their questline.

Or the outlaw farmers wich allow you to join for free if you are starving (or you are enemies with the UC) and have similar goals and i think also gives you rep with the anti slavers, i loathe the fuckers but Boss Simion is the GOAT.

 

[BALLZ-BROKEN MkII]

Is anyone saying otherwise? That seems like such a weird comparison. FNV is part of a long standing IP developed by a professional studio and Kenshi was made almost entirely by one guy. Anyone going into Kenshi expecting it to compete with FNV is nuts.

If anything, Kenshi is more like Morrowind, a crazy alien fantasy setting held together by cum and popsicle sticks. Also, much like MW if you don't understand the mechanics, you're gonna have a real bad time, but if you do it's so easy to cheese the game.

I think Kenshi's main problem is that for a squad based RPG, it turns into Cat Herding Simulator pretty quick if you want to manage more than half a dozen characters. You can use the Hold command but then they won't move even an inch to help or heal comapnions. If you leave it off they just start running around everywhere, even relentlessly chasing down an enemy with both crippled arms. There really needs to be a way to put a circle on the ground and tell them "It's okay to move around here, but never leave this line".

Also, the recruitable companion stats are so shit. It's supposed to be Squad based so you aren't supposed to get attached to any single person, the problem is it takes so fuckn' long to train anyone to be worth a shit (even if you're using OP training mods) if one dies you're just gonna reload.

There's also the Disguise mechanic, which is a really neat idea, the problem is it's based on stealth, so if you trying to go somewhere you shouldn't you'd just sneak and not bother trying to get the faction clothing. It should be a charisma thing but charisma doesn't exist in Kenshi.

 

[Smack Patrick]

I think Kenshi's main problem is that for a squad based RPG, it turns into Cat Herding Simulator pretty quick if you want to manage more than half a dozen characters.

My main issue with squads is that everyone is robotic outside of party banter.
My wish for Kenshi 2 is to have a scheduling/job system just like Rimworld.
>one guy splits off from town to collect materials.
>follow him on his journey to the other side of the continent
>click on the others in the team
>camera warps to them
>game loads them in
>they're standing completely still or doing whatever task they were assigned to like an automaton
I just want my crew to feel more alive.

 

[Philly Phunk Machine]

I'm 100 days into my martial arts playthrough having successfully build my karate academy in the Hub and trained a solid 6 or so recruits to around level 30. However, multiple Dust Bandit raids have led to the Hub barkeep disappearing while the Rebel Base barkeep is on the cusp of expiring as well. This is bad for logistics as their inaccessibility hampers my ability to get food and iron supplies without having to trek over to the Shek Kingdom or Vain.

Furthermore, my main character has a $40,000 bounty on her head since I keep using her to infiltrate the Holy Mines for new recruits. I've managed to break several lower servants and even a hungry bandit leader out of slavery and added them to my ranks. I was most successful at the mines closest to the Fog Islands; apparently the paladins have no qualms throwing fogmen in chains.

I'm thinking I'll have to relocate due to the material shortage in the Border Zone, but I'm not sure whether to resettle in Admag or trek all the way to the United Cities. I've been having the most find freeing slaves and trying to see which NPCs I can make playable.

 

[harbringer883]

Any mod recommendations? I already use reactive world, but I am kinda looking to see if there are any performance mods/worldbuilding mods that are cool.

 

[Bolsak]

Any mod recommendations? I already use reactive world, but I am kinda looking to see if there are any performance mods/worldbuilding mods that are cool.

Lively bars, expanded hive/cannibals, recruit anyone, compressed textures, slopless, realistic blood, 256 recruit limit, custom starts and most important DARK UI.

Or just go to steam workshop, sort by popularity and see what tickles you.

 

[Tri-Tachyon'sClown]

Lively bars, expanded hive/cannibals, recruit anyone, compressed textures, slopless, realistic blood, 256 recruit limit, custom starts and most important DARK UI.

Or just go to steam workshop, sort by popularity and see what tickles you.

There's probably some good small collections too, or you can check the big ass ones and just trawl through the list to see what ones you want.

 

[StacticShock]

My main issue with squads is that everyone is robotic outside of party banter.
My wish for Kenshi 2 is to have a scheduling/job system just like Rimworld.
>one guy splits off from town to collect materials.
>follow him on his journey to the other side of the continent
>click on the others in the team
>camera warps to them
>game loads them in
>they're standing completely still or doing whatever task they were assigned to like an automaton
I just want my crew to feel more alive.

good luck finding a mod that gives you character AI tokens to let them do shit, best chris could do was patrol around...

 

[Bolsak]

The 1 thing that i utterly hate in this game is crafting system, its unimaginable how terrible and not worth it is. You need steady flow of resources to craft at least smth decent, and by the time you could do that you probably alredy have much better gear.

 

[Smack Patrick]

The 1 thing that i utterly hate in this game is crafting system, its unimaginable how terrible and not worth it is. You need steady flow of resources to craft at least smth decent, and by the time you could do that you probably alredy have much better gear.

Yeah, what also doesn't help is the fact you can't even craft the highest tier without mods.
Obviously I'd be fine not being able to craft Meitou-tier but being able to buy shit in the shops that you'll never be able to beat with crafting is dumb.
Meitou Nodachi: 2.64
Edge 3 (purchase only) Nodachi: 2.19
Edge 2 (highest craftable) Nodachi: 1.89
Now bare in mind you need to have a crit success to make an Edge 2, you can't pump them out regularly.

Now it might be a pain to some but I reckon it would make investing in crafting more worthwhile if you had
Highest Purchase From Shops (Repeatable)
[Model # Mk I]
Highest Purchase From Shops (One Off Purchase)
[Model # Mk III]
Highest Drop From Random Elite Mobs
[Model # Edge 2]
Faction Leader Drops
[Model # Meitou]

Because there's no point investing in crafting when you can just waltz into a shop and buy the best gear, wait for the inventory to reshuffle then buy it again until all your guys are decked out.

 

[Persona Grata]

I'm not excited for Kenshi 2. Either 1000 years in the past is going to me an entirely different setting, and therefore, not Kenshi. Or it's going to be a strikingly similar setting, which begs the question, why make it 1000 years in the past?

Chris made a cool thing and all but handing it off to Nat and his employees is a disaster in the making. imo. A real artist/visionary would be using his newfound success to exert more control to realize their vision, not less/handing over creative control. Art is almost never improved by committee.

But who knows maybe Kenshi 2 becomes to Chris what Wizardry 8 is to David W. Bradley (For those who don't know he was a genius game designer who left SirTech after Wiz 7, and then lead of Wiz8 was taken over by Brenda Brathwaite, now known as Brenda Romero/John Romero's wife.)

 

[Unarmed Gunman]

Minecraft, unless you're playing on creative or peaceful, forces you to at least acquire some food and basic gear to effectively explore. Otherwise you'll starve and/or get killed by mobs at night. In normal play mode you cannot spawn into a new Minecraft world and just explore without anything.

It's been many years since I've played Minecraft, but isn't the basic day 1 strategy still to chop a couple trees down by hand, and kill 3 sheep so you can make a bed? That isn't exactly a big lift for a new player.

 

[Preacher ✝]

It's been many years since I've played Minecraft, but isn't the basic day 1 strategy still to chop a couple trees down by hand, and kill 3 sheep so you can make a bed? That isn't exactly a big lift for a new player.

Last I played it, also many years ago, you now need food to maintain your health bar or you can't heal. So if your goal is to just go out and explore as fast as possible you'll need that bed and some food. Sheep drop mutton now but you gotta cook it so you'll need a furnace or a campfire and you'll need to keep stopping to get more food. Depending on where you want to explore, like caves, sleeping through the night wont be enough to solve the issue of hostile mobs either.

 

[Bolsak]

you can just waltz into a shop and buy the best gear, wait for the inventory to reshuffle then buy it again until all your guys are decked out.

Better, you can steal the shit you want instead of buying. Thievery itself is the most op broken mechanic in this game, now compare it to crafting. Its a joke of a game mechanic

 

[Jose Beaner Luna]

It's been many years since I've played Minecraft, but isn't the basic day 1 strategy still to chop a couple trees down by hand, and kill 3 sheep so you can make a bed? That isn't exactly a big lift for a new player.

Not anymore, the best strategy is to just find a village, since they are so common now there's no point to craft or mine in the minecraft game.