Kenshi - Post-Apocalyptic Weeb cousin of Mount & Blade

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I've been thinking about what makes the main three factions unique, separating their "accidents" from their "substance" to play with the concepts better.
Holy Nation:
-A community of farmlands
-Guilt-based society (Don't do X because it's wrong)
-Inward focus
-Core value: Cohesion through faith
Shek Kingdom:
-An outreaching capital
-Threat-based society (Don't do X because I'll hurt you)
-Inward focus
-Core value: Might makes right
United Cities:
-A network of autonomous cities
-Shame-based society (Don't do X because it's cringe)
-Outward focus
-Core value: Materialism
What else can be said about them? I'm working on the three of them at once with the mindset of making them equally deep, but something I may not be counting are special, identifying accidents that make them special.
It's perfectly possible that one of the factions is less fleshed-out and will fall short.

Related?
Why the factions in kenshi will kill you.webp
 
I've been thinking about what makes the main three factions unique, separating their "accidents" from their "substance" to play with the concepts better.
Holy Nation:

Shek Kingdom:

United Cities:


What else can be said about them? I'm working on the three of them at once with the mindset of making them equally deep, but something I may not be counting are special, identifying accidents that make them special.
It's perfectly possible that one of the factions is less fleshed-out and will fall short.

Related?
View attachment 7826126
Sheks suck, they definetely feel like the most unfinished of them all, they are just the generic noble barbarian trope with unidimentional stoic attitude, they need a total rewrite.

Holy Nation is interesting, with a mysterious background that unravels as you explore and read The Lore™, however, their most interesting aspects get eclypsed by their unrealistic hatred of women and is all everyone else in the world comments about them, their enfasis should be in hating non humans and outsiders in general, not just women and specially not in the way they are done and i believe that if you as a human, want to make business with the HN you should go to a converting process so they can trust you (and putting you at odds with the sheks as you have become an okranite) would fit their religious themeing and history nicely, oh and they need interesting world states beyond "kill everyone or ignore them".

United cities is the most complete of them all and despite being generic greedy imperial society they are given more nuance as the factions that are agaisnt them are also barbaric retards like the outlaw farmers or the ultra idealistic anti slavers, all characters related to them are well done as well as their motivations, the small factions somewhat related to the UC are also kino like reavers and crabs, i just wish the outlaw farmers werent so trigger happy.
Also since UC has a lot of world states you can give them different "endings", something i like to do is listen to simion and only topple a few cities (and tengu of course) and keep a few UC nobles around and the traders guild, this is the closest thing to a "good ending" for the UC (and the reason Simion is the only smart person in kenshi despite his faction being composed of niggers) since the traders guild actually dont have bad blood with the farmers and actually wants to keep them around and erradicating slavery instantly will just cause more problems than not (as seen if you listen to tinfist and just kill everyone)
 
I see we've got a thread on this game. I even paid real money for this one a while back, like 10 whole dollars.

My assessment is that people kind of act like it's more open than it is. The world's your oyster, nobody tells you what to do, except you've still got experience points and level ups, you've got a money counter, you recruit people, you build bases, obviously taking those things and making them bigger are the goals.
The role playing opportunities aren't truly that deep, since the game starts coming apart at the seams a little if you push it in directions it wasn't meant to go.

Base building makes up a lot of the content, except having bases almost seems like something you do simply because you like the idea. The reality is that the logistics of maintaining one seems to outstrip what you gain from it.
You can have a team of like 14 human[oids], make ~5 of them rangers (all of my archers were hivers, including the team's star ninja and strongest warrior Beep), get a couple pack bulls, buy some houses in the hub, harvest and cook loads of dried meat, use the snailhouse to build cages and kidnap/beat/starve anyone who annoys you, buy masterwork weapons from the scrapyard, buy armor from one of the cities or armor king, and do just fine.

Meanwhile with a base you've got to recruit a bunch of additional laborers, defend the base with trained fighters who could be traveling with you instead, wrangle people into actually doing the things you want them to, collect engineering research/ancient books/AI cores, etc. I had 900k cats and figured maybe it was about time to partake in real base building, except I could have simply not and my life would've been easier.


My biggest issue though: The fact the game performs rather poorly.
Even logistics aside, even when units actually go where/do what you tell them to (and you can barely trust that they will), the game constantly has these chunky fucking loading screens that regularly take 10+ seconds each to load.
If Beep's running off to someplace alone at 50mph with his prosthetic scout legs, and you follow him, you'll spend as much time loading as actually running. He'll run for 5 seconds, then load for 5+ seconds. Then you try to switch back to your base to make sure nobody's having a crisis, and it has to load AGAIN.
Then you switch back to beep, it has to load again. And if you don't switch back to a character who's traveling, there's the ever present chance that pathing will shit itself and they'll just stand there in one place while enemies tee off with their head instead of actually running.
God forbid you've got multiple team members doing multiple different things in different places, in this team management RPG.

This game isn't that complex, off a modern SSD I feel like loading shouldn't be this much of a problem.

I still like the game and have a positive opinion of it, the way it approaches a lot of systems is interesting (ex. how fighting and injuries/incapacitation/death works) but holy shit do I get tired of the chugginess of it. With the amount of zone switching you're going to have to do unless they're maybe <4 seconds each it's not going to fucking work.
 
Nothing like fanimation to bring a man back to a property.
Sheks suck, they definetely feel like the most unfinished of them all, they are just the generic noble barbarian trope with unidimentional stoic attitude, they need a total rewrite.
shut your whore mouth, flatskin wetback
Holy Nation is interesting, with a mysterious background that unravels as you explore and read The Lore™, however, their most interesting aspects get eclypsed by their unrealistic hatred of women and is all everyone else in the world comments about them, their enfasis should be in hating non humans and outsiders in general, not just women and specially not in the way they are done and i believe that if you as a human, want to make business with the HN you should go to a converting process so they can trust you (and putting you at odds with the sheks as you have become an okranite) would fit their religious themeing and history nicely, oh and they need interesting world states beyond "kill everyone or ignore them".
They're low-tech psuedo-muslims. It's really not that complicated
 
Sheks tried to bully a bunch of rednecks armed with copper pipes and got beat so severely they are currently coping and sneeding while having a population crisis, they are also so pathetic they cant kill asmongold and his army of roaches, Sheklitties eternally FELTED by the HVMAN KANGZ who will be replaced soon anyways by the BVG BVLL

Suffah pinheads!
 
Even logistics aside, even when units actually go where/do what you tell them to (and you can barely trust that they will), the game constantly has these chunky fucking loading screens that regularly take 10+ seconds each to load.
found the SATA player.
install this piece of shit game on a nvme and watch it load blazing fast.
They're low-tech psuedo-muslims. It's really not that complicated
the good thing is that of all the lands theirs are the most fertile and the funny thing is that preddit treats them as pseudo catholics instead of muzzies, their +50% dmg to robot swords are good too.
 
Nothing like fanimation to bring a man back to a property.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=u8X183rL8ew
Oh hey, it's this guy. I found him from his peasant attack video. He's improving a bit each video.
Has there been any news about Kenshi 2? last i remember was some criptic photo about Agnu and beep but not much else after that, im losing hope bros... those damn brits!
Not to my knowledge, but I don't give a shit about it one way or another so it's fine by me. Dev hell probably.
 
This game is so terribly designed, it's pretty obvious that without this toxic culture of "nothing is ever badly designed, you just aren't good enough and should learn and shut the fuck up!", it would be disregarded entirely. Of course too much hand-holding can be boring, but absolutely 0 help of any kind is just as if not more frustrating. You start the game, no NPC has anything to say, at all, nor anything resembling a quest or issue to fix. You have no idea what to do besides mining to not starve or where to go, and any direction you pick will result in getting raped by 15 bandits. There is very little to do for a decade of dev, sell drugs, grind in the cheesiest way possible to be able to win random fights, build a pointless base, steal items (with the most retarded RNG system making noise that it doesn't even fucking inform you about in any way)... all without any objective. "But you make your own" No shut up you fucking nigger, a blank book isn't a great story that just needs a little imagination, it's a fucking blank book, nothing more. This game has one of the worst starts I've ever seen, and no actual end to work towards.

Then you have the shitty performance, the DOGSHIT camera having epileptic fits anytime you enter a building, the shittiest controls imaginable (why the fuck does "select all characters" not even have a default button, in a game that clearly WANTS YOU to recruit tons of characters), the boring inventory micromanagement, the characters getting stuck in outhouses, the terrible pathfinding, the complete immersion break when here are 50 bandits for every 1 civilian in the world and hordes of bandits casually stroll through the hub...

If stupid edgy kids weren't addicted to dick contests online, no one would defend this game. It's empty, pointless, boring, shallow, ugly, its only redeeming grace is an extremely slim amount of lore and some variety in the map design. "Just make your own story bro" motherfuckers on their way to exploit cheese grind all skills to 100 to be a murder-hobo for the 37th time. It's a shame, I wanted to like Kenshi, but only delusional people can convince themselves this is a good game.
 
Sounds like someone ran into a group of bandits and got their shit kicked into a death spiral. That being said, while I do enjoy the game your complaints are very much valid, even if they're put in a way that can be seen as "yet another person seething they got their ass kicked by not knowing how the game works and is now on a crusade to shit on the game" I see sometimes. Why I don't have much hope for Kenshi 2 since it'll probably be a worse game on top of having these same exact issues, this game is "love it or hate it" incarnate and very heavily overrated even if-again-I do enjoy it.
Also, damn I haven't seen Nox or anything Wakfu related in years, cool.
 
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Sounds like someone ran into a group of bandits and got their shit kicked into a death spiral.
Nope, but that's because I already knew about this thanks to youtube videos.
even if they're put in a way that can be seen as "yet another person seething they got their ass kicked by not knowing how the game works
I can promise, this is not the case. Nothing in my post even alludes to the difficulty in the first place except the first sentence about bandit gang-rape, which isn't difficulty but the unavoidable outcome if you try to fight a band of roaming bandits early on. If anything made me rage, it's the camera controls going insane on the y axis when trying to maneuver it with my character inside a building, or the solid minute IRL I spent completely blocked in an outhouse in the Hub by just interacting with it normally (did anyone playtest this I have to wonder).

My truly biggest gripe with the game is that it gives you genuinely no reason to go explore or to even begin to think anything of any faction. In a sense, I genuinely believe that Fallout New Vegas is a better Kenshi on almost all aspects. Contrast the starting area, the factions, the paths a beginner will be given to choose. in FNV, you get NPCs with actual dialogue setting up the world and its factions, you get an immediate feel for the faction reputation system, you are given a clear choice between the dangerous road to the North or the beginner-friendly longer road to the South, and you can pick up quests. You are given information, a purpose, and choices. In Kenshi (and I know it's a sandbox but that doesn't excuse everything), NPCs tell you nothing, you don't glean information about the world, don't get to know the basics of some factions, have no purpose beyond not starving which is laughably easy by just mining right outside the gate, and are not confronted with any in-world issues to solve or care about. Again, in FNV, you can act immediately on the Powder Gang issue and are confronted with the much more overarching issue of warring factions for the Dam.

And all this sucks because from videos I know that there is at least a lot of varieties in landscapes and a good number of factions even if they're basic, but Kenshi doesn't want you to experience those. Kenshi doesn't give me a reason to care, doesn't confront me with any issues or even character writing or world-building, excepting bandits I maybe saw 40 NPCs and here are all of them: dialogue-deprived basic civilians, guards, shinobis, shopkeepers, one Shek who wants to travel with me for free (only character so far with a modicum of actual dialogue), mercenaries who cost way too much for early game.

And at least in a sanbox like Minecraft or Terraria you're meant to go explore just for the pretty sights in an easy game, but Kenshi will break your legs if you do that, so the game forces you to grind, contrary to a true sandbox, but it doesn't provide any incentive to do so. I am rambling a lot to say that Kenshi lacks structure and isn't really designed to stand on its own without structure, which imo is why every video on youtube desperately tries to create one out of very barebones elements.
 
Sounds like someone ran into a group of bandits and got their shit kicked into a death spiral. That being said, while I do enjoy the game your complaints are very much valid, even if they're put in a way that can be seen as "yet another person seething they got their ass kicked by not knowing how the game works and is now on a crusade to shit on the game" I see sometimes. Why I don't have much hope for Kenshi 2 since it'll probably be a worse game on top of having these same exact issues, this game is "love it or hate it" incarnate and very heavily overrated even if-again-I do enjoy it.
Also, damn I haven't seen Nox or anything Wakfu related in years, cool.
he isn't wrong, kenshi is praised as "le free game" but it lacks so fucking much even on the agency part that it's laughable.
a sloptuber did a video about the game and how it turned out that the entire "le free and independent storytelling" worked is basically the fogmen dominated everything because they are the only type of enemy that has unlimited spawncount.
mercenaries who cost way too much for early game.
if you get the mercs to fight for you go to a deadly zone, they will eventually get killed and you won't have to pay them, also you get their gear too but what's even the point?
 
it lacks so fucking much even on the agency part that it's laughable.
It's what makes it so hilarious and sad when I see retarded r*dditors animals defend the complete lack of content as a stroke of brilliance when it's just laziness. Even in Skyrim, which lacks immensely as an RPG, every town is filled with NPCs that even if basic, serve a purpose, they all tell you something about the world, about the people living in it, they make the universe believable. But retards unironically defend with "BuT YoU'Re nOt tHe mAiN ChArAcTeR" the fact that in Kenshi the characters have nothing to say, not about the factions, not about their lives, not about any issue they face, nothing. How can you even pretend to get invested in a world where no one feels like a person in any way? That's just gaslighting from trolling pieces of shit.

Apart from that Shek warrior, I haven't seen a single NPC that even pretends to have a life and not just be a meat sack standing around drooling. But shistains will continue pretending that if you're not the President, you'll never hear anyone complain about taxes because "YoU'Re nOt tHe mAiN ChArAcTeR" because that of course makes absolute perfect sense. Anyway, I guess I'll try Elin not too far into the future, since it promises to scratch a lot of the same itch but actually seems to do its job from what I've seen, because Kenshi has fully lied to me.

if you get the mercs to fight for you go to a deadly zone, they will eventually get killed and you won't have to pay them, also you get their gear too but what's even the point?
How? Every mercenary I've seen asks for 6k upfront, except the one asking for 2k/day.
 
I play Kenshi with about 50-60 mods, and as fun as it is, I gotta say, if I made a game that nobody played without mods I'd be pretty bummed. It clearly needs work and I really hope Kenshi 2 incorporates the top 20 most popular mods or something.
Understandable. But every single mod section has bugs reported in the comment sections, so the engine of the game must be really trash. And for another rant at how stupid the start of the game is: There are no mentors in this game, nor ways to train bar specific dummies that take a stupidly long time when using them. You cannot learn by doing because every single basic enemy is way stronger than you AND in a pack of at least 10, every single one. So already, all notions of RP are completely fucked when the only way to get stronger is to literally commit suicide against groups of bandits or to attract them like braindead insects to the guards 50 times in a row.

But even then, it's impossible to do this getting beaten up technique if you don't have multiple characters, because your character gets KOed and it's game over, they can never get back on their own if a single wound gets bad, and NOBODY will come to patch you up 20 feet outside the town. So you need multiple characters, but those all cost a lot of money, so back to the mine grinding you go... How the fuck is this game in such a shitty state, this a pre-alpha demo state, not a released game state. Everything you need to do in this game is either hours long of staring at a fixed screen, RP-raping cheese exploits, or a combination of both.
 
My truly biggest gripe with the game is that it gives you genuinely no reason to go explore or to even begin to think anything of any faction.
Kenshi doesn't give me a reason to care, doesn't confront me with any issues or even character writing or world-building,
I am rambling a lot to say that Kenshi lacks structure and isn't really designed to stand on its own without structure
The reason I like it even if I haven't played it in a long time, is that the reason to care or do stuff in it is self-evident. The purpose of exploration in Kenshi is to explore, it's to satiate one's own curiosity, and to overcome an incredibly, sometimes unreasonably, hostile environment to do that.

It doesn't 'lack structure' in the same way Minecraft or Valheim or whatever other sandbox game you want to compare it to, don't 'lack structure'. Minecraft objectively has less structure than Kenshi, in that you at least have a starting village/town, NPCs, a background 'story'/'narrative', and a static worldmap in Kenshi, whereas in Minecraft you're just plopped down in a procedurally-generated random environment with no further instruction or direction.

It might lack typical hooks but, it has more hooks, again, than Minecraft.

I'm not really a 'fan' of the game, as I said I haven't played it in a while (I was hoping this thread had something about Kenshi 2 and checked the back page to see if it did) but your criticism is founded in incuriosity not an actual objectively true value of the game.

It is absolutely a piece of shit cobbled-together mess I'll grant you that.
 
The purpose of exploration in Kenshi is to explore
But as I pointed out, that is wishful thinking and not how it works in practice. Kenshi forces you to grind to explore without getting raped at random, Kenshi wants to boast a "reactive world" with factions and lore, that is antithetical to a sandbox. True sandboxes like Terraria or Minecraft let you explore from the get-go without it being objectively a bad play. Kenshi wants to have its cake and eat it too, it wants to boast all the qualities of FNV and of a true sandbox, while doing neither very well. There is no freedom in how you get strong or rich in this game, genuinely what job even is available to the player that isn't smuggling drugs (no noob knows how to do that), getting bounties (requires grinding), stealing (universally recognized as very badly implemented), or mining (tedious)?

You can lack a structure if you truly offer tons of actual freedom, but Kenshi doesn't, the only actual reason to explore is the lore and landscapes, but they require many hours of grinding to be feasible. Kenshi seems to me like a less extreme version of the Fear and Hunger phenomena, an objectively badly-designed game that is upheld by its lore and youtube videos. Though Kenshi with all its dogshit coding (I just got my character stuck in a wall with no way out because a single bonedog made me phase through a wall, how is this kind of shit even possible after a decade of development) is still infinitely more pleasant than F&H.

And the start of the game is a crucial component, why would I want to explore if everything the game taught me in the first 2 towns I saw is that no NPC has anything to say and the towns are boring and soulless? The game doesn't even have voice acting, it would cost nothing to be able to ask a few questions to the barman as to what's in different directions or what the town offers, but you can't do that. It's also egregiously stupid that you are forced to first speak to the barman then select that you want to trade, every time, when there doesn't exist any other option anyway. From the first 2 towns, I can expect nothing from any other town than NPCs with 0 dialogue and shopkeepers, that's literally all the game has told me it has.
 
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