💊 Manosphere Jordan Peterson - Internet Daddy Simulator, Post-modern Anti-postmodernist, Canadian Psychology Professor, Depressed, Got Hooked on Benzos

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I remember when this guy was big on YouTube. It's always sad to see somebody crashing and burining. Even if I didn't really care about the guy because he was a pressure valve recycling the same individualist conservative/liberal slogans that is not too hostile for the mainstream. Sure he said that there are two genders, so based. I mean even 5 year old kids know that. lol

Basically a Sargon with a nicer suit and a better self control over his online postings. The fact that his content is still on YouTube (and it's being recommended too) he had that huge patreon while the media only had playful attacks on him should raise a red flag or two.
 
GranDuke said:
Thats now how this works. If book is officially translated then you can search for reviews were people, who speak the original language, usually describe how good/bad is the translation. That doesn't work when some agitated guy gives you "fan translation".
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Considering what the book is about I'm pretty sure the guy who gave it to him wanted to capture the original intentions faithfully...
 
Spamy the Bot said:
I remember when this guy was big on YouTube. It's always sad to see somebody crashing and burining. Even if I didn't really care about the guy because he was a pressure valve recycling the same individualist conservative/liberal slogans that is not too hostile for the mainstream. Sure he said that there are two genders, so based. I mean even 5 year old kids know that. lol

Basically a Sargon with a nicer suit and a better self control over his online postings. The fact that his content is still on YouTube (and it's being recommended too) he had that huge patreon while the media only had playful attacks on him should raise a red flag or two.
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He was better than Sargon because he was not only academically and professionally credentialed, he came out swinging with decades of stuff to say. Those early appearances on Rogan and others was basically him holding court and dumping a pretty solidly formed set of theses into the mainstream media. That is why everyone was scrambling to take him down, and any story of Peterson will not be complete without the dozen or so instances of him completely mopping the floor with extremely hostile interviewers.

Peterson said a lot of stuff during his rise, and I would say he marked the end of the Anti-SJW movement as a whole. He was the final exclamation mark on a movement's pushback against political correctness, social justice doctrine, and feminism. After him they had to shift gears, but those early fun days were over just like the Atheism Vs. Religion battle had to end and, over the years, somehow it came to pass that Religion came back harder and Atheism never recovered its online cringe status. It's funny how things shake out sometimes.

What we are seeing now are a new iteration of the groups Peterson/Shapiro/Milo/McInnes/Etc. were after, and they've learned that the Trigglypuffs of the world can't be on the frontlines anymore. That was too easy. Just like how the Neocons have learned from the Groyper thing and are putting up similar walls.
The question is whether or not Peterson can adapt, just like Milo and Faith Goldy and Gavin and the rest. Nobody thinks Free Speech Absolutism is attractive anymore, and Dave Rubin seems to be the last to know.
We already know that old mantra of valuing masculinity, free speech, the persistence of hierarchies, etc. has global popularity. He had a multi-year world tour based on it. Just like when Trump won, the real interesting thing is "what now?" So far it's been everyone from Center-Right to the Far-Right playing the defensive as their opponents have mobilized better.

This isn't due to their popularity, mind you; there's a reason every single open comment section on the internet becomes a Right-Wing breeding ground within minutes, there's just more of them. But they're not organized, and their opponents have no real behavioral standards. If Zizek went to Russia to kick a Benzo addiction literally zero people on the Left would care, they would probably think it's funny and cool. It's only a scandal because, unlike his opponents, Peterson speaks about striving to be something greater so it's the same people who lose their minds if they see a Priest drinking a beer; it's just a lazy dunk that for some reason the subjects take very seriously. Just like people in this thread or the Nick Fuentes thread, it's a lot of "A HA I knew he was bad I always hated him!" and they hated him for purely ideological reasons and this is all just convenient.
 
Rekkington said:
their opponents have no real behavioral standards.
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This is a very interesting point I'd never thought about before. If your ethics are what people believe instead of what they do (SJW strawman), the personal is less political. But if you build your brand on something like trad values, and fail to uphold them, you're a laughingstock as a role model. Ethics are a handicap -- they restrict what you can do, and mostly make life harder, but they can add meaning to your life, and ultimately make you stronger if chosen well. If you choose them to appeal to a tradfad you don't much believe in, they just make you more vulnerable if you break them, and if you have to keep chasing the fad, you'll just keep accumulating handicaps because the internet never forgets.

Rekkington said:
decades of stuff to say
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Exactly. Most current pundits, especially on the right, got big then started working on a brand they could take to the bank. They have to develop a worldview they can defend from a hostile media under live fire and scrutiny that exceeds and fights less fair (and, unlike lobsters, more to the death) than academic culture. His views were well formed and he had decades of experience presenting at least his academic views, and, well, professing them.

Rekkington said:
somehow it came to pass that Religion came back harder
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I'd argue that was religion giving its last gasp, and atheism failed to find a new enemy, hence the new culture war. Could you elaborate on religion coming back harder, assuming you mean as a cultural force?

Rekkington said:
So far it's been everyone from Center-Right to the Far-Right playing the defensive as their opponents have mobilized better.
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Rekkington said:
This isn't due to their popularity, mind you; there's a reason every single open comment section on the internet becomes a Right-Wing breeding ground within minutes, there's just more of them. But they're not organized
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While it is slipping to an extent, the left (neolibs really) still seems to have an advantage in being able to define what is and is not "acceptable" to force their opponents to play respectability politics. This makes it safer for them to deploy Trigglypuffs than for their opponent to deploy Groypers, even if we pretend for the sake of the argument both are equally unpopular. Politics is largely about organizing your base while preventing your opponent from doing the same, and I'd say one side is doing much better right now due to the corporate/media landscape, especially in tech.

Rekkington said:
Nobody thinks Free Speech Absolutism is attractive anymore
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Which increases the hegemonic power to define and salami slice them to nothing if they can't adapt.
 
GranDuke said:
Thats now how this works. If book is officially translated then you can search for reviews were people, who speak the original language, usually describe how good/bad is the translation. That doesn't work when some agitated guy gives you "fan translation".
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What magical qualities are bestowed by a work translated privately rather than incorporatedly that prevents multilingual people on commenting on the quality of translation?
 
Lemmingwise said:
What magical qualities are bestowed by a work translated privately rather than incorporatedly that prevents multilingual people on commenting on the quality of translation?
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They aren't as accessible as officially translated, commercial products. They might also not be held up to certain standards. Obviously, this isn't the case for all privately translated works, IIRC there were some Japanese vidya gaemz that had references to GooberGloop in their official translations etc.
 
Boris Blank's glass eye said:
They aren't as accessible as officially translated, commercial products. They might also not be held up to certain standards. Obviously, this isn't the case for all privately translated works, IIRC there were some Japanese vidya gaemz that had references to GooberGloop in their official translations etc.
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You can literally just download it.

edit: here, a link and a pdf.

 

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Tismguide said:
This is a very interesting point I'd never thought about before. If your ethics are what people believe instead of what they do (SJW strawman), the personal is less political. But if you build your brand on something like trad values, and fail to uphold them, you're a laughingstock as a role model. Ethics are a handicap -- they restrict what you can do, and mostly make life harder, but they can add meaning to your life, and ultimately make you stronger if chosen well. If you choose them to appeal to a tradfad you don't much believe in, they just make you more vulnerable if you break them, and if you have to keep chasing the fad, you'll just keep accumulating handicaps because the internet never forgets.
Click to expand...

That's something that also seems to be a self-defeating element overall. It's like when people ask "why are there so many former alcoholics and drug addicts who turn to religion later?" The answer is in the question, because the stability and ethics appeals uniquely to them. So even on the Identitarian/Far/Whatever Right, you are going to have a lot of people who are substance abusers, porn addicts, general degenerates, etc. But that's because they are trying to get better or change and tend to pick a pretty high standard, and in my opinion the Left grants a lot more leeway with this. Millennial Woes was recently in a sexually-charged scandal and it's rumored he's a closeted homosexual while being one of the (former) leaders of the BNP, and if you know his story he was a schlubby, depressed, aimless chainsmoking drunk.
Like how it's okay to be a Socialist or a Communist and also rich, they don't really take people apart for that because they have a larger mission. Whereas on the right it's "oh you think Gay Pride is shitty, but you also have a gay friend, kinda hypocritical HMMMMMMMM?"
We used to call this purity spiraling but nobody wants to call it that anymore. If there's any tactic I've seen the Left use that the Right has not fully clued into, it's that. And they tend to use 4chan a lot to push this.


Tismguide said:
Exactly. Most current pundits, especially on the right, got big then started working on a brand they could take to the bank. They have to develop a worldview they can defend from a hostile media under live fire and scrutiny that exceeds and fights less fair (and, unlike lobsters, more to the death) than academic culture. His views were well formed and he had decades of experience presenting at least his academic views, and, well, professing them.
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This really messes with people who get into public politics young. It's impossible not to change over time. Milo, for example, has gone on record recently saying he's not a free speech absolutist, and nearly everyone who once started out as a Libertarian now looks back on it as cringe. This is something that Nick Fuentes is going to have to grapple with in the future simply because there's so much video evidence of it and I'm 100% sure there's Antifa and Leftists documenting his claims right now for future scandals. My policy is anyone getting into this sort of this before the age of 30 is a bad idea but people still love that energy so what are you gonna do.


Tismguide said:
I'd argue that was religion giving its last gasp, and atheism failed to find a new enemy, hence the new culture war. Could you elaborate on religion coming back harder, assuming you mean as a cultural force?
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I just meant more acceptable. I remember the whole Skeptic movement in its prime and how back even when I was way younger, atheists fighting religious people (especially creationists) was a way bigger thing. There were more chats and forums set up exclusively for that in my memory, and it was a lot of young people going against older people. Those days of the internet were way snarker than they are now if anyone can believe that, and I use Something Awful as a good example of that. Everything they did was sarcastic and snarky and the entire goal was to make the opposition less cool. This is where the Dirtbag left was formed, and "Weird Twitter." These arguments were never really good, it was a lot of "oh so you believe in a magic sky lizard lol" which eventually evolved into the supreme symbol of virginity: The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
What ended up doing them in is they weren't funny or cool. All their jokes were corny, and since MOST of the people never read the Bible there wasn't much else to talk about. In the meantime you had a resurgence not just of Christianity, but Catholicism which is arguably the more hardcore form of it (to the outside viewer anyway.)
This is already getting too autistic but in short I believe the reasons for this are:
1). Atheism as a movement was ruined by cringey dudes and Atheism+ which just made everything gay and communist.
2). A response to the rise of Islam, especially in Europe, and people looking for something cultural to counter that.
3). A generation of Millennials finding the nihilism and hedonism that largely defined Gen X just drove them into alienation.
4). Intellectuals making a strong case that the West has strong foundations in Christianity - especially America - although each European nation would have its own version of this.

So that's where I think we end up here with people as far right as Andrew Anglin going hard for Christ, and you might have noticed Alex Jones switching over to this steadily over the years (at least more than before) and where Satan is described as a literal antagonist connected with government forces. Not passing judgement on that, it's just what they say.

Tismguide said:
While it is slipping to an extent, the left (neolibs really) still seems to have an advantage in being able to define what is and is not "acceptable" to force their opponents to play respectability politics. This makes it safer for them to deploy Trigglypuffs than for their opponent to deploy Groypers, even if we pretend for the sake of the argument both are equally unpopular. Politics is largely about organizing your base while preventing your opponent from doing the same, and I'd say one side is doing much better right now due to the corporate/media landscape, especially in tech.
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Reading into the development of the Left over the past 100 years is really enlightening, from the foundations of the Communist movement at the turn of the 20th century to the Weatherman domestic terrorists of the 70s and 80s. The reason I say this is to point to their relationship with authority, especially police.

Again this is getting extremely autistic, but loosely you can say it started with "we want to be the police," then in the 60s/70s/80s it was "we want to kill the police" (literally, nobody talks about this but in 1972 there were around 2,500 domestic bombings done by Leftist groups just that year and they went on missions to shoot and blow up cops,) and now it's something along the lines of "fuck the police but officer shoot those Nazis."
There may be some more nuanced synthesis going on but as far as I can tell this is them embracing their oppressed status while maintaining their identity as revolutionary firebrands. I can go on about this shit forever but the point is this: the Left is willing to appeal to authority the way the Far Right and especially mainstream Conservatives don't want to (and forget about Libertarians.) They will never say "do this or I will kill myself," which is essentially how the Trans movement got to where it is.

So in summary you are absolutely right, and I'm curious to see where the Right goes from here. I know where it's kinda going - violence, especially on behalf of bad actors like Atomwaffen - and they're not going to be able to get away with the sort of literally murderous shit the Black Panthers did.
 
GranDuke said:
Download version is fine, what I had in mind is when someone gives you printed copy of such translation. You have no idea if they didn't add/remove/change something before printing it.
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You don't know that with a downloaded version either.

You don't know who uploaded it, you don't know if the company serving it has redacted it, you don't know if they've been hacked, by either intelligence or a random guy with a grudge.

There's always software that can scan and compare it though and I'm sure university professors have used that before to root out plagiarism.
 
Rekkington said:
I can go on about this shit forever [...]
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Very informative, would read more.

By the way, I recently watched some of the oldest lectures of JP on his channel on youtube to see where was he coming from and it struck me, that in one of his Harvard lectures (made in 2003 I think?) he said something along the lines: shit's going to hit the fan in Quebec due to dangerous policies in the next 30 years.

I might be misremembering the specifics of that paraphrase, will check out later.

[EDIT}
I misremembered the "next 30 years" prediction - probably seen this in some other video. Anyway, the relevant part:

This video is from 1996.
 
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Rekkington said:
And they tend to use 4chan a lot to push this.
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How does 4chan relate to it?

Interesting point about purity spiraling -- I've seen it apparently at work in the social justice types, as well as the more obvious anti-SJW grifts (EVS Comicsgate), but often deeper digging reveals it's power struggles/greed/general human meanness invoking the language of politics as a weapon.

Rekkington said:
This is something that Nick Fuentes is going to have to grapple with in the future simply because there's so much video evidence of it
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Peterson has done a much better job of curating what he leaves evidence of saying than Fuentes, as well as avoiding traps, and generally being a master of talking a lot while saying very little. There's no video of him calling for sending the libertarians to the camps that I'm aware of. If he finds himself in trouble, it'll be because his actual worldview has become socially unacceptable, not quips/flourishes/"jokes" he throws in to spice it up.

Rekkington said:
Reading into the development of the Left over the past 100 years is really enlightening
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Any recommendations in particular? Yours are probably more worthwhile than https://www.jordanbpeterson.com/books/book-list/
 
Tismguide said:
There's no video of him calling for sending the libertarians to the camps that I'm aware of.
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Free speech man was in favor of disinviting a journalist to a free speech event. He said that the irony wasn't lost on them, as if that made it alright.

And it's very much a different fight; someone with an established credentials has to play a more defensive game; push a little, defend a lot. Whereas someone who isn't established like nick needs to be hell raiser for anyone to even pay attention.

I completely agree that Peterson was really good at avoiding traps and talking a lot without saying a little. It's also clear that often people don't really understood what he did say. There was even an instance where he defended the concept of white privilege, but couched it in different synonyms and it went over most people's heads.
 
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I wonder if he's actually a ''male borderline''. Depression, rigid thinking, addiction issues and I can't say this or not but it seems like some unstable family relationships too. Could this have been the issue all along that lead to the breakdown? maybe even what attracted him to psychology in the first place. I've heard people saying he sounds paranoid in certain recorded home videos as well, does anyone know if that's true? I've only seen one video where he went on a weird rant and started to cry in his house, but that was over a patients suicide (apparently).
 
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