💊 Manosphere Jordan Peterson - Internet Daddy Simulator, Post-modern Anti-postmodernist, Canadian Psychology Professor, Depressed, Got Hooked on Benzos

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Zizek vs Peterson would be the best content produced since his shit on Joe Rogan where he said his daughter ate soy and saw her brother as a demon and he drank a little apple cider and couldn't sleep for 25 days because of his strict carnivore diet that solves his depression (but still can't stop him from crying when he thinks about muh individualism). Or when he became a humble carpet salesman and was selling decorative rugs for like 10 grand a pop. Honestly the people who follow his shit are probably bigger cows than he is, and I'm sure many of them will go on to be shitty vaguely right wing internet psychologists who are in reality atheists but really like Christianity and think that you should all pretend it's real in the future.
 
The guy is really charismatic, and he's an engaging lecturer. He's funny because he loses his cool a lot, holds a load of blatant contradictions in his head regarding postmodernism (which is awesomely postmodern of him), talks to adults about children's films, which frequently make him cry when he tries to analyse them, and otherwise is a total head-case who thinks he went 25 days without sleep, an ailment he has since cured by only eating beef and salt since.

He's also not very smart, at least compared to the canon of 20th century philosophers. When he gets asked to explain what he means by his eclectic ideas about Truth, he goes "ow! my brain hurts!" whereas someone like Richard Rorty would have ploughed over you with his awesome confident weirdness.

He also makes endearing fuck-ups like not understanding how hyperlinks work, and thinking there is a conspiracy against him in the youtube algorithm. This is awesome. I really want to see him try to make a Patreon alternative. He once said that he tried to write some software to figure out the true value of goods as an alternative to market valuation, and suggested that his utter failure at this was some sort of proof that the free-market is the only option, and not a clue that his mathematical modelling skills are shite.

Oh, Peterson would be wrecked by an actual philosophy. Preferably analytic philosopher; Peterson is clearly a continental philosophy type and most of that stuff his actually his sort of rubbish.

Regarding Peterson and "Truth" particularly, I think he thinks there's some greater, transcendent thing he's looking for (that's not there) and he can't express what it is it because he can't find it. Yeah, something transcedental, I think that's the god Peterson is after. I can't figure out if Peterson actually believe in a deity with intentionality, or some unconscous cosmic force, or something else entirely.

It's hard to tell if what they really just believe in is the art, ethos, and customs of religion that they think important or necessary.

I'm not sure what JBP's views of cosmology and metaphysics are. I don't recall ever hearing him say it, but I'd bet my foot he''s lamented "reductionism" and "scientism" somewhere along the line. These types seem to think that there qre metaphysical paths to knowledge outside of science or empirical inquiry. To put my bias over JBP on the table, my point of view on these matters is almost completely aligned with Richard Dawkins, and JBP has indirectly attacked me when he insinuated that Dawkins was attacking a straw man version of religion. I also hate continental philosophy, which is what JBP flirts with (and continental philosophy and psychoanalysis are sometimes quite interwoven.

But I can think JBP's full of hot air and respect him as an individual not immediately fee the need to ascribe all sorts of dishonest intentions to him.

Some people here can benefit from browsing this wiki article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_charity
 
Funny how you tried to pretend Omni was bashing me so you save face.

No, read back. I asked him a question about if I missed any content in your post besides how I summarized it and used the fact that he didn't as an example that I must have summarized the content of your post accurately.

I think it's funny that you marked my post as mad on the internet, as you're screeching at me because I disagree with you. If anyone is acting like the typical edgelord atheist, it's you. First I focused on what I found funny about your post and I admit, I wasn't very funny, judging from the responses. So I decide to humor you and give an honest in depth response, laying out how I see things and checking if I understood your position well (I did, otherwise your line by line rebuttal would have addressed it, I'm sure).

Then you do this cringy line by line reply style. I'm sure this discussion is boring most people to tears already, I know it's doing it to me.

And now you're linking to wikipedia articles about how people should think more euphorically, I mean, charitably. It's clear you don't take that advice yourself.
 
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https://youtube.com/watch?v=-ftaltfEdEo
Zizek vs Peterson would be the best content produced since his shit on Joe Rogan where he said his daughter ate soy and saw her brother as a demon and he drank a little apple cider and couldn't sleep for 25 days because of his strict carnivore diet that solves his depression (but still can't stop him from crying when he thinks about muh individualism). Or when he became a humble carpet salesman and was selling decorative rugs for like 10 grand a pop. Honestly the people who follow his shit are probably bigger cows than he is, and I'm sure many of them will go on to be shitty vaguely right wing internet psychologists who are in reality atheists but really like Christianity and think that you should all pretend it's real in the future.

Zizek should dare Peterson to box him, like Uwe Boll did.
 
No, read back. I asked him a question about if I missed any content in your post besides how I summarized it and used the fact that he didn't as an example that I must have summarized the content of your post accurately.

Because he didn't respond after that. Probably didn't even see your post. So you really do have a ax to grind about this thread, right off the bat here you're intending to mislead others. It's not just me that thinks you're acting really dumb here, dude.

I think it's funny that you marked my post as mad on the internet, as you're screeching at me because I disagree with you. If anyone is acting like the typical edgelord atheist, it's you. First I focused on what I found funny about your post and I admit, I wasn't very funny, judging from the responses. So I decide to humor you and give an honest in depth response, laying out how I see things and checking if I understood your position well (I did, otherwise your line by line rebuttal would have addressed it, I'm sure).

Then you do this cringy line by line reply style. I'm sure this discussion is boring most people to tears already, I know it's doing it to me.

And now you're linking to wikipedia articles about how people should think more euphorically, I mean, charitably. I'm sorry for having wasted time on you, I won't make the mistake again.

Dude, it's just clear you have some strange ax to grind with this guy that goes beyond laughing at him. Hell, you started the thread on him in the first place. You're essentially a-logging Peterson because he's done very little stuff that was scammy--just cringy or stupid. I want to come here and laugh at what Peterson does and says, not you attempting to run some stupid propaganda opp to get him painted as a conscious, active manipulator just because you think his views on religion are dumb. Stop getting your panties in a bunch over him and just laugh at him without resorting to nefarious conspiracy theories. Peterson is fun to watch and mock because he actually does say what he thinks, he's not trying to hide anything. I asked for a list of what he did that was scummy, and almost all of it was tied to his confusing theology, so yeah, that's what you're getting angsty about. The people that try to turn every cow into actually being a master manipulator sociopath is really annoying and un-funny. Reading threads turn into circlejerks over how supposedly evil cows are is very not fun. The butthurt is more obvious than you think it is.

You're a butt-hurt internet atheist that hates the Peterson phenomenon because he's got some stupid religiosity going and he's public with essentially sophistic arguments. I get that, but you're going after the man's character way too hard because of that.

You even tried to blame JBP by something by claming JBP basically told a "friend" of yours to "follow their dreams" and that hypothetical "friend" ended up trying to do that by going all-in and failing. Who the fuck do you think you are kidding?

As for the wikipedia article, it addresses how philosophical disagreement should be handled. In an academic setting, you are expected to not infer ulterior motives or, if there is ambguity, to read the argument in the best light possible. You aren't doing that. and since you're mocking that I suppose that's a tacit admission that you get some enjoyment by acting otherwise. KF is far from an academic setting, but that doesn't make those principles any less valid.

The only other explanation I can think of over why you are so mad at Peterson is that you're a troon. Are you a troon IRL?
 
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There was a thread on an anti-Peterson subreddit a while back by a philosophy professor who had to teach Peterson fanatics. Unsurprisingly, his influence has not led to a renaissance of conservative philosophers, but instead a whole lot of guys who are too easily triggered to research and discuss ideas they disagree with. A fan also shows up and attempts to lecture OP about how he's part of the propaganda machine for merely including Marx in his curriculum about the history of philosophy.

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Bit :late:, but here's a little sample of how Jordan Peterson likes to convey a discussion. Here's the whole discussion if anyone's interested (1h 43m long).
tl;dw: Interrupt your opponent every 10 syllables, try to pull him towards multiple tangents, use variations of "I don't think so" and "I don't agree with X" as most of your responses.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=A2HHtwCuyes

oh god I forgot that one where Peterson was challenging the idea "getting your head chopped off is bad for your well-being".
 
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It was only last year that Peterson had an argument with a Zizek bot on Twitter (which only tweeted quotes) - I remember he challenged Zizek to a debate, only to then back out at the last minute when Zizek said he was interested.
 
oh god I forgot that one where Peterson was challenging the idea "getting your head chopped off is bad for your well-being".
Some other examples of Jordan's wisdom:
15:05 - You can't stop smoking without supernatural intervention
41:28 - There are no godless artists, they only think they are atheists
1:04:50 - "Do you think if all humanity would cease to exists would God still exists?" "Dunno how to answer, it's too hypothetical." meander meander
 
There was a thread on an anti-Peterson subreddit a while back by a philosophy professor who had to teach Peterson fanatics. Unsurprisingly, his influence has not led to a renaissance of conservative philosophers, but instead a whole lot of guys who are too easily triggered to research and discuss ideas they disagree with. A fan also shows up and attempts to lecture OP about how he's part of the propaganda machine for merely including Marx in his curriculum about the history of philosophy.


It's important to note that this is on reddit, where socialism is a hot idea and the idea that there are infinite gender is taken seriously ther.

A lot of that reeks like "That Happened," but knowing how stupid freshman college students are, I'll assume they are telling the truth.

Postmodernism is loosely-defined and maybe they're misusing the word to some extent, but what they mean by it is pretty clear. I know very little about this subject, however, but I will say when JBP and others talk about the "Frankfurt sshool" as being the genesis of these ideas is probably retardation and much wider social trends are probably a much better explanation as to why things are what they are today.

I find people warm on postmodernism describe what postmodernism is supposed to be in theory, and JBP and others describe what post-modernists do in practice. For supposedly rejecting grand narratives, the post-modernists of the past have been very cozy to radical communism, and none of them were supporters of capitalism. They can pretend that the Sokal hoax was no big deal, but it really does reveal how little rigor or sensibility there is in those circles. Even Noam Chomsky has criticized postmodernism, mostly on the grounds that it's all obscurantist bullshit.

And Women's Studies departments, hell, any identity studies department, they are all propaganda. I took Black Studies in college and let me tell you, Jim only scratched the surface of the Kehmet community and didn't go into their actual retarded and poorly written "scholarship."

I do believe this shit is happening, because it's always been happening; just they don't see a problem and agree when that flavor of bullshit the redditor expresses are ones where they agree with their point of view. I wouldn't doubt there are young scrawny neckbeards doing this shit. I think it's less about Peterson specifically and more the horrors of the youtube generation.

Some other examples of Jordan's wisdom:
15:05 - You can't stop smoking without supernatural intervention
41:28 - There are no godless artists, they only think they are atheists
1:04:50 - "Do you think if all humanity would cease to exists would God still exists?" "Dunno how to answer, it's too hypothetical." meander meander

See, that's part of the Gouldian non-overlapping magisteria crap, which Peterson subscribes to and somehow thinks things like beauty, music, culture, and religion are all a category distinct from empirical science. The bullshit here is that religion makes actual claims about reality, about celestial intelligences that are noncorporeal out there somewhere that display intentionality curiously similar to the organisms that arose over millions of years and evolved the intelligence and behavior to be able to make them up. I had one instructor that summed the retarded idea up, attempting to defend it, and it's very Petersonian language games: "Science is about the how, religion is about the why." Or something to that affect.

Jordan's arguments are dishonest here, because he can't seem to recognize the definitions of the words the way people generally accept them. He's claimed that critics like Dawkins have only attacked a young child's view of god, when everyone knows full well that most religious people believe god is an actual entity possessing drive and intelligence even personality quirks, that somehow interfaces with the real world yet presumably not being made up of subatomic particles.

I think his view of god is that it is something so beyond compression and words he cannot properly express it... and while that may be true, Peterson is unable to no anthropomorphize such things just like all similar theologians are.

The natural selection argument has damaged theology greatly, since we've figured out man's "purpose" in the world and why mankind is here. These arguments are the last hold outs they really have left, these are the arguments they think will persuade atheists since atheists have a higher time of defending the idea of an objective morality than religious people do (which is why I deny there is such a thing). All the other conservative commentators say similar things, Peterson is just more vague about god because the conservatives already know which god they follow.

Peterson's arguments often are tantamount to language-games where he uses a nonstandard definition of a word and believes other people are going to adopt his definition head canon. It's really fucking obnoxious banging your head against these people because you run into the problem over and over again. He has his own definition of religion none of us would by into and then he'll criticize Dawkins who is using a definition that doesn't apply to Peterson's, where Dawkins actually specifically excludes the metaphor-based theology. Peterson has a lot to say about Dawkins, but I know he hasn't read him because whatever you think about Dawkins or The God Delusion, Dawkins was painstakingly careful to define religion and the underpinning philosophies, specifically to evade the same dumb criticisms JBP makes.
 
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Shit. I think I know why Peterson is so easy to edit like this. His preferred pronoun is "you." Every life lesson or observation he makes goes "you are...", "you were", "you feel...", "you believe...." And because most of what he says is along the lines of "LIFE IS SUFFERING", it's a piece of piss to cut him up to look like he's berating randoms.
 
Shit. I think I know why Peterson is so easy to edit like this. His preferred pronoun is "you." Every life lesson or observation he makes goes "you are...", "you were", "you feel...", "you believe...." And because most of what he says is along the lines of "LIFE IS SUFFERING", it's a piece of piss to cut him up to look like he's berating randoms.

He has a very homey language. Too paternalistic. I dunno, it kinda breeds distrust in me. Reminds me of evangelists. The smarter, non looney ones.
 
He has a very homey language. Too paternalistic. I dunno, it kinda breeds distrust in me. Reminds me of evangelists. The smarter, non looney ones.

Anyone with an idea they believe strongly in and argue for can sound like an evangelist. Honestly, it's not really a bad thing. People do such things for all sorts of reasons, it's easier to hate the people that disagree with us on stuff. Evangelists are only problems when they are assholes and they're getting in your face. If they're putting their argument out there and being sincere, well, far better than the dogmatic freak ordering you to get on your knees. At least you can have a discussion with the former. It won't go anywhere, like trying to get Peterson to figure out what "truth" is. As if every potential epistemological ramification that could ever come up needs to be brought up here, ugh. But at least you could try to have a discussion. with them.

Peterson is sort of an evangelist. He argues for things and provides reasons why. That's okay. His reasons are laughable and childlike, and sometimes the truth behind his supposed massive intellect shines through when he rebukes a Disney version of a fairytale. He fails at what he attempts to do in the eyes of people actually educated in his stuff. Except psychology. Nearly everything in psychology is controversial and maybe what he cites isn't believed by all psychologists, but there's a lot of politically motivated people there. When he's not blubbering on about psychoanalysis he's pretty good. Sometimes people are massively wrong, sometimes people are right. I don't fault evangelists that try to make sincere and reasoned, arguments for something they think is pretty important. Peterson included.

And regarding Sam Harris debating Peterson, Harris could have done a better job on Peterson. But Sam Harris's stupidity and pretensions would be another thread.
 
And regarding Sam Harris debating Peterson, Harris could have done a better job on Peterson. But Sam Harris's stupidity and pretensions would be another thread.

Speaking of Sam, how has he avoided a thread here? He's pretty similar to Peterson except he's been on the pop-intellectual scene longer, has way less credibility in his field (basically faked his PhD, his thesis was absolutely awful and it was based on experiments he didn't even carry out yet he still calls himself a neuroscientist), loses every debate or intellectual engagement he takes part in, has his own little cult, insists that his mastery of science and logic can derive objective moral values, looks like Ben Stiller, ect.
 
Speaking of Sam, how has he avoided a thread here? He's pretty similar to Peterson except he's been on the pop-intellectual scene longer, has way less credibility in his field (basically faked his PhD, his thesis was absolutely awful and it was based on experiments he didn't even carry out yet he still calls himself a neuroscientist), loses every debate or intellectual engagement he takes part in, has his own little cult, insists that his mastery of science and logic can derive objective moral values, looks like Ben Stiller, ect.

I'm not sure. Maybe because he's so insufferably boring? Listening to his voice is like Novocaine for the brain, people probably listen to him speak for an half hour before shooting themselves in hopes they'd avoid even a moment of pain. I only see something he does once in a long awhile

I'm not familiar with this final thesis and I'd love to read more or watch a video if you have one. I've always wondered what happened with his degree, he sure doesn't seem to talk about doing actual research from what I've heard. I was sort of thinking of starting a thread about Harris but I'd need to do hours of work collecting why he's full of shit and pretentious... you noting specifically his talk of trying to downplay/get over Hume's Is-Ought Problem. I'm sure you know what I mean there, and how he misrepresents Hume on the rare occasion he actually acknowledges it. That's one of the main reasons I think Sam is a blowhard, though not the only one. I love how he bastardizes Buddhism into a flavor of McBuddhism just like every other Western intellectual that doesn't take the time to wonder if what buddhists mean by "no self" is the same thing as cognitive scientists and philosophers stating that there ultimately is not true indivisible thing called "self."

Though, Sam's audience is a little bit more mature and he doesn't play internet daddy to them. Sam's audience likely consists of people finishing their college degrees, old skeptics from before the Rebecca Watson-infused sundering, and 30 year olds that were influenced by him back when he wrote his dumb book. There's a lot less to actually LAUGH at under the Sam tent from what I can see., when comparing to JBP. Hopefully I am wrong.

Gad Saad is also, definitely a cow, getting pissy at his fans and blocking them when they just playfully disagree wwth him and he just says the three same things over and over and over again. Watch a Gad Saad video and watch him self-insert into literally everything his guest talks about, making it about him. He's clearly, CLEARLY a narcissist, and he's too arrogant to hide it. Just pick one. Any random one will do, his schtick never changes.

I hope the mods will forgive us for this slight derailment--Sam is related in that he's another internet intellectual guru that needs to be taken down a peg with somewhat similar flavoring. Again, Sam, like JBP isn't the anti-christ, but boy is he full of hot air... and it's important to disregard what SJWs say about him as their complaints, like with JBP, are mostly trash. If I had to wager I'd say that JBP is probably a nicer person in real life than Sam. Sam seems arrogant.

Would be a good drinking game. One person has to drink when zizek says: "and so on/and so forth" and the other when peterson says: "roughly speaking/no joke"

"in my estimation"
"bucko"
 
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I hope the mods will forgive us for this slight derailment

The idea for this thread started exactly the same way in what I think was the Sargon thread. It wasn't my idea, I just thought it'd be worth doing.

Strange to see I agree almost to a tee with your perception of both Saad and Harris, though I wouldn't know if you've pegged Harris audience right or not.
 
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