Islam

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XYZpdq said:
Dude you're gonna break my :story: button.

So you're cool with your mom or sister getting groped because the guy didn't stick it in?
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Obviously not. I would kick that guy's ass until he gets knocked unconscious.
Also, never had this happened with any of my female relatives in my immediate family and they don't wear such things.
 
Is this supposed to convince us Islam is totally progressive and not a regressive stone age relic that should be scrapped? Because it's not working.
 
Ruin said:
Is this supposed to convince us Islam is totally progressive and not a regressive stone age relic that should be scrapped? Because it's not working.
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It's those dang women's fault that there's a bunch of molesting barbarians (who totes aren't rapists guys, for reals).
Ntwadumela said:
Obviously not. I would kick that guy's ass until he gets knocked unconscious.
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Why not just have the very effective police enforce the women-protecting laws against that shit that most civilized countries have?
 
Ruin said:
Is this supposed to convince us Islam is totally progressive and not a regressive stone age relic that should be scrapped? Because it's not working.
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No.
I'm just informing you that not all Muslims are barbaric terrorists and that many of us are normal people.
XYZpdq said:
It's those dang women's fault that there's a bunch of molesting barbarians (who totes aren't rapists guys, for reals).

Why not just have the very effective police enforce the women-protecting laws against that shit that most civilized countries have?
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I never said it was the women's fault.
I never stated any support to what these people are doing.
I also never said my country, or any other for that matter was perfect.
 
XYZpdq said:
Normal people don't expect women to wear bedsheets to avoid getting sexually harassed.
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If you ever came to my country, you would have noticed that the majority don't wear it and actually wear Western clothing. I am only explaining why certain people wear it. Kuwait is not Saudi Arabia, and it would be very clear if you went there.
 
I noticed muslims have a tendency to defend their religion after the slightest criticism or joke at its expense. Seriously, go look at Youtube comments on a video criticizing or joking about Islam or something, the most butthurt guy is always a muslim.
 
Organic Fapcup said:
I noticed muslims have a tendency to defend their religion after the slightest criticism or joke at its expense. Seriously, go look at Youtube comments on a video criticizing or joking about Islam or something, the most butthurt guy is always a muslim.
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I'm just trying to explain what my country is like. I know many people have committed horrible crimes in the name of Islam, but I do not support such acts and never will. There are horrible people everywhere, in any community. But blind hatred and blanket statements don't rectify the situation.
 
Ntwadumela said:
I'm just trying to explain what my country is like. I know many people have committed horrible crimes in the name of Islam, but I do not support such acts and never will. There are horrible people everywhere, in any community. But blind hatred and blanket statements don't rectify the situation.
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Man, I don't doubt that you're decent, nor that Kuwait's better than most muslim countries, but it doesn't really change the fact that there's a significant amount of crazies blowing stuff up or starting particularly hardcore bar brawls for Allah and Country.
 
Organic Fapcup said:
Man, I don't doubt that you're decent, nor that Kuwait's better than most muslim countries, but it doesn't really change the fact that there's a significant amount of crazies blowing stuff up or starting particularly hardcore bar brawls for Allah and Country.
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They are widespread nowadays, that's true.
But they are also very vocal about it too. There's also a significant lot of people who don't support such actions as well.
 
XYZpdq said:
Normal people don't expect women to wear bedsheets to avoid getting sexually harassed.
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To be fair it has worked out very well for the inbred primate-amalgamations that make up the Ku Klux Klan. I never see anyone hit on them?

Ntwadumela said:
If you ever came to my country, you would have noticed that the majority don't wear it and actually wear Western clothing. I am only explaining why certain people wear it. Kuwait is not Saudi Arabia, and it would be very clear if you went there.
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@Ntwadumela I understand where you are coming from but I worry that you may still be taking things too personally?

Regardless, I feel like a lot of this is born from differing perspectives that may never be compatible, simply because your people (and perhaps yourself) and the average westerner don't even view the problem as the same, much less the solution. They are stating opposition to an issue which you do not even agree exists (and which I am taking no opinion on, personally.) To you, Islam is a way of life and an identity as much as it is anything. It is a whole set of laws, rules, and theology that must be interwoven to make a complete and functioning whole. Islam is a thing unto itself, and the parts only have to make sense in the context of the whole. At least from what I have gathered. Correct me if I am wrong.

To a westerner, Islam is an umbrella of ideas to be critically examined, and adopted or discarded based on perceived usefulness. A lot of times when westerners attack Islam they don't even mean "Islam", they mean "that one thing I don't like and have no historical, political, religious, or social context for." Occasionally the smart ones really do mean "Islam." This happens a lot with countries too, like France or Kuwait.

But on point, a lot of this conversation seems to be bogging down on differing definitions of things like rape, a lack of clarity. Just like Islamic dress laws get muddied because "modesty" or "all which is apparant" mean different things to different people. Until Islam and its neighbors can even agree on what they're disputing, the dialogue will move at a snails pace. So, I suppose with that in mind I would ask you:

"How does Islam, in your view, define rape?"
 
Gym Leader Elesa said:
To be fair it has worked out very well for the inbred primate-amalgamations that make up the Ku Klux Klan. I never see anyone hit on them?



@Ntwadumela I understand where you are coming from but I worry that you may still be taking things too personally?

Regardless, I feel like a lot of this is born from differing perspectives that may never be compatible, simply because your people (and perhaps yourself) and the average westerner don't even view the problem as the same, much less the solution. They are stating opposition to an issue which you do not even agree exists (and which I am taking no opinion on, personally.) To you, Islam is a way of life and an identity as much as it is anything. It is a whole set of laws, rules, and theology that must be interwoven to make a complete and functioning whole. Islam is a thing unto itself, and the parts only have to make sense in the context of the whole. At least from what I have gathered. Correct me if I am wrong.

To a westerner, Islam is an umbrella of ideas to be critically examined, and adopted or discarded based on perceived usefulness. A lot of times when westerners attack Islam they don't even mean "Islam", they mean "that one thing I don't like and have no historical, political, religious, or social context for." Occasionally the smart ones really do mean "Islam." This happens a lot with countries too, like France or Kuwait.

But on point, a lot of this conversation seems to be bogging down on differing definitions of things like rape, a lack of clarity. Just like Islamic dress laws get muddied because "modesty" or "all which is apparant" mean different things to different people. Until Islam and its neighbors can even agree on what they're disputing, the dialogue will move at a snails pace. So, I suppose with that in mind I would ask you:

"How does Islam, in your view, define rape?"
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Rape is considered haram under Islamic law and considered "Zina", or unlawful intercourse.
Rape is forbidden under Islamic law. It is defined as having extramarital intercourse by force or fear, including any subsequent injury both to the victims mental and physical health. According to Islamic law, it is classified as hirabah, i.e. a violent crime causing disorder in the land in the manner described in the Qur'an as fasad(destructive mischief). A similar crime, for example, would be highway robbery, as it puts fear in people going out or losing their property through violence. Some other branches of Islamic law consider it to be part of zina, as a crime called "forced adultery" (zina-bil-jabr). In Sharia, rape is punishable by stoning to death.
For more read this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_sexual_jurisprudence
 
Ntwadumela said:
Uhh... America? Sweden? Any western country obviously. They have money. They can obviously travel.
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Gotta love it. Muslims who of course feel 100% entitled to go live in any western country, but simultaneously make endless excuses why their feudal, theological shitholes' "traditions" and laws still reign unchallenged in their home countries. If the West treated muslims the way muslims treat...well, literally any minority at all, the fucking hypocrites would endlessly be crying crocodile tears about the awful racism of the nazi fascists. Love this guy talking about Kuwait like it's the most "progressive" muslim majority country on the planet, completely oblivious to how every one of his self-serving justifications reinforces how fundamentally incompatible it is in every way with western culture.
And then muslims cry about how they're singled out of the myriad cultures and ethnicities and religions that immigrate to the West, that awful, completely unjustified "islamophobia". Yeah it's a complete mystery man, Islam is like any other religion or culture, just look at all the terrorist attacks from vietnamese we've had to deal with in France, the groups of chinese youth disproportionately represented in violent crime getting radicalized into massmurderers in prison, the pacific islanders, the carribeans, the south and north americans, the eastern europeans, the variety of indian ethnicities from the subcontinent, etc...All indistinguishable from immigrants of muslim countries.
 
Online Violence said:
Gotta love it. Muslims who of course feel 100% entitled to go live in any western country, but simultaneously make endless excuses why their feudal, theological shitholes' "traditions" and laws still reign unchallenged in their home countries. If the West treated muslims the way muslims treat...well, literally any minority at all, the fucking hypocrites would endlessly be crying crocodile tears about the awful racism of the nazi fascists. Love this guy talking about Kuwait like it's the most "progressive" muslim majority country on the planet, completely oblivious to how every one of his self-serving justifications reinforces how fundamentally incompatible it is in every way with western culture.
And then muslims cry about how they're singled out of the myriad cultures and ethnicities and religions that immigrate to the West, that awful, completely unjustified "islamophobia". Yeah it's a complete mystery man, Islam is like any other religion or culture, just look at all the terrorist attacks from vietnamese we've had to deal with in France, the groups of chinese youth disproportionately represented in violent crime getting radicalized into massmurderers in prison, the pacific islanders, the carribeans, the south and north americans, the eastern europeans, the variety of indian ethnicities from the subcontinent, etc...All indistinguishable from immigrants of muslim countries.
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Are Muslim women the ones doing such acts? I don't think so. I haven't been accusing any other community or ethnicity of committing such actions on a global scale nowadays. I said nothing of the sort about supporting terrorists either. You wouldn't have your deep-seated hatred of Islam if you didn't have such bad experiences in Morrocco where you grew up. I know radical Muslims have been making many problems these days, but Muslims haven't been the cause of EVERY major catastrophe in history. I have also said my country wasn't perfect either. It's definitely better than its neighbors.
 
Online Violence said:
What's the barrier between Kuwait and social reform into something not out of the middle ages, exactly? Aren't you one of the richest countries on the planet? We all know what it is, I just want to hear you say it.
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I'm not going to dignify that with what you want to hear. I will say that it's fear to challenge this injustice of mistreatment of people who happen to be different in terms of orientation. Have I ever said I agreed with this law? No I haven't. Lesbian relationships are not bound to that law. I am Kuwaiti yes, but I don't agree with everything my country has to offer. I'm speaking as an individual human being.
Even then, we have many homosexuals in Kuwait and the police here occasionally don't do their supposed job.
 
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