Islam

[Vitriol]

The prophet PBUH was a human being just like all of us, and obviously he's not perfect just like all of us. It is extremely difficult to judge moral issues from a long time ago because times were different back them, and the LGBT movement had gotten its footing relatively recently in history compared to others. If you want to be Islamophobic and condemn everyone for the actions of a few extremist fucktards, go ahead. I have never said anything about gays being bad though, people can be whatever the fuck they want.

Muhammed married a nine year old, He wasn't only not perfect he was a typical 7th century Arabian warlord. Hisbehaviour is held up in Islam as an example to be emulated and imitated wherever possible. Considering he was a murdering, slave taking imperialist pedophile this has severe negative consequences for the nature of Islam. Negatives which are not outweighed by a few edicts which were marginlly more protective of womens rights than those of genghis khan.

It isn't the actions of a few religious extremists it is the doctrines espoused and endorsed by mainstream Islamic authorities like the quaran and hadiths quoted above.

It is not islamaphobic to point out the religion is fundamentally flawed and oppresive imposing quite literally a medieval legal code on its adherents and providing a justification for mass murder that is acted upon and approved of by millions in a was that cannot be handwaved as a result of poverty as it is a phenomenon unique to the Islamic religion.

In fairness, Mohammed also had a good deal of horsemen with very sharp scimitars in order to keep his country secure.

My point was the Koran holds him up as the premier example of how to behave and organise the world- if his actions cannot be defended or his model followed islam is fatally flawed.

 

[Lorento]

If you want to be Islamophobic and condemn everyone for the actions of a few extremist fucktards, go ahead.

Now this is where I draw the line I'm afraid. It is not Islamophobic pointing out that if you follow a book written by 7th century assholes to the letter, you are likely to be a bit of a cunt yourself. It is also not Islamophobic to point out (Correctly) that of all religions, Islam is the religion which has the most people following that book to the letter. If my Scottish friend had said 'All Muslims are wannabee Jihadists, THAT would have been Islamophobic.

 

[Ntwadumela]

Muhammed married a nine year old, He wasn't only not perfect he was a typical 7th century Arabian warlord. Hisbehaviour is held up in Islam as an example to be emulated and imitated wherever possible. Considering he was a murdering, slave taking imperialist pedophile this has severe negative consequences for the nature of Islam. Negatives which are not outweighed by a few edicts which were marginlly more protective of womens rights than those of genghis khan.

It isn't the actions of a few religious extremists it is the doctrines espoused and endorsed by mainstream Islamic authorities like the quaran and hadiths quoted above.

It is not islamaphobic to point out the religion is fundamentally flawed and oppresive imposing quite literally a medieval legal code on its adherents and providing a justification for mass murder that is acted upon and approved of by millions in a was that cannot be handwaved as a result of poverty as it is a phenomenon unique to the Islamic religion.

Mohammad wasn't perfect, but he was NOT. A. PEDOPHILE. If that was the case, every one of his wives would've been little girls. There is proof he wasn't either:http://www.muslim.org/islam/aisha-age.php
Also, there is a lot of documentation of his good and charitable deeds, even Gandhi considered him to be a great person. There was a Hadith where a Jewish person was littering his house for days, and he was extremely patient with him. Once that Jewish person fell ill, the Prophet PBUH visited him and prayed to God for him to get better.
He never started problems with anyone, and the reason why he went to wars was for self-defense, and he was heavily persecuted as well. I know horrible things like 9/11 have happened in recent years, and I send my regards to everyone affected by such major tragedies, but remember there are people like this in every society, every belief, and every race. Hitler, Mao Zedong, Stalin and Anders Behring Breivik weren't Muslims, and the gravity of their crimes is just as heavy as shitheads like Bin Laden.

Now this is where I draw the line I'm afraid. It is not Islamophobic pointing out that if you follow a book written by 7th century assholes to the letter, you are likely to be a bit of a cunt yourself. It is also not Islamophobic to point out (Correctly) that of all religions, Islam is the religion which has the most people following that book to the letter. If my Scottish friend had said 'All Muslims are wannabee Jihadists, THAT would have been Islamophobic.

I understand your point of view, but know this: I never once said anything about supporting extremists and have been condemning them this whole time. If you want to find the deeper meaning of the Quran, study the Arabic language instead of reading half-assed translations online. The Quran has mentioned nothing about pedophilia, and it's strongly frowned upon in where I come from. Hell, I find it absolutely disgusting. The few people that support it live in backwards countries and it's more to do with culture than religion. Ever heard of child brides in India? In addition, the sheikhs that make fatwas nowadays are full of shit, and only claim things to suit their interests.

 

[Sheikh_Speare]

abu dawad is considered reputable.

Abu Dawud's Sunan is a mixed bag, by the admission of Abu Dawud himself (he occasionally wrote notes indicating the strength or weakness of a hadith). Occasionally he would place contradictory hadith right next to each other for contrast's sake.

The execution of homosexuals is a disagreed upon matter. Ibn Hazm, one of the strictest and most literal jurists in Islamic history, said that all the ahadith indicating a death penalty for sodomy were weak.

The Hanafi madhhab (the majority madhhab in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Turkey, Iraq, Jordan, Bosnia, and Albania) says that the punishment for homosexual sodomy is a ta'zir (a discretionary punishment of 10-or-less lashes, or imprisonment). This is recorded in all the major legal compilations on the Hanafi madhhab.

Abu Dawud (444 - "If a man who is not married is seized committing sodomy, he will be stoned to death." (Note the implicit approval of sodomizing one's wife).

There is no implicit approval of sodomizing one's wife. Unlike the ahadith prescribing the death penalty for homosexual sodomy, the ahadith forbidding anal sex with one's wife are mutawatir (mass-transmitted) and there is 'ijma (absolute consensus) among the four madhhabs of Sunni Islam that anal sex with one's wife is haram (though there is a minority opinion among the Shi'ites allowing it).

The reason that narration (which, I will repeat, is a weak hadith) mentions being married is to make clear that sodomy does not fall under the same punishment as sex outside of marriage between a man and a woman, in which the punishment is not stoning, but lashing.

 

[autisticdragonkin]

It is extremely difficult to judge moral issues from a long time ago because times were different back them, and the LGBT movement had gotten its footing relatively recently in history compared to others.

I would say that moral issues related to technology such as online piracy are something that we could say are not applicable in this fashion. Maybe even things more subtle such as polygamy being associated with sex ratios or property rights being different with the advent of more productive capital but how would the LGBT movement be applicable today but not back then. I would think that it would be clearly referenced because it has nothing to do with technology

 

[Ntwadumela]

I would say that moral issues related to technology such as online piracy are something that we could say are not applicable in this fashion. Maybe even things more subtle such as polygamy being associated with sex ratios or property rights being different with the advent of more productive capital but how would the LGBT movement be applicable today but not back then. I would think that it would be clearly referenced because it has nothing to do with technology

You are certainly correct, but the same can be applied to racism, the movements against it had nothing to do with it either, and even then were relatively recent in comparison to what happened in history. People today are more informed about what went on in the past and think in a different perspective too.

 

[Ruin]

You are certainly correct, but the same can be applied to racism, the movements against it had nothing to do with it either, and even then were relatively recent in comparison to what happened in history. People today are more informed about what went on in the past and think in a different perspective too.

This comparison is idiotic. White supremacists aren't actively engaging in mass killings and acts of genocide today. Radical Muslims are.

 

[Ntwadumela]

This comparison is idiotic. White supremacists aren't actively engaging in mass killings and acts of genocide today. Radical Muslims are.

White Supremacists have engaged in mass killings and acts of genocide though. I take it you've heard of The Holocaust? How about what the Ku Klux Klan have done? Also, have I said anything, anything at all about supporting Radical Muslims?

 

[Ruin]

White Supremacists have engaged in mass killings and acts of genocide though. I take it you've heard of The Holocaust? How about what the Ku Klux Klan have done? Also, have I said anything, anything at all about supporting Radical Muslims?

Note my use of the word "today." Should we divert all our intelligence and millitary resources from ISIS to dealing with racist groups that have less than a hundred members? Maybe we should monitor Catholics too! The spanish inquisition clearly justifies wasting resources and ignoring atrocities being committed today.

Moral equivalency is shit and I wish you would stop invoking it.

 

[Ntwadumela]

Note my use of the word "today." Should we divert all our intelligence and millitary resources from ISIS to dealing with racist groups that have less than a hundred members? Maybe we should monitor Catholics too! The spanish inquisition clearly justifies wasting resources and ignoring atrocities being committed today.

Moral equivalency is shit and I wish you would stop invoking it.

ISIS is a major problem right now because they are more vocal compared to other groups. They have also killed Muslims too, they burned a Jordanian pilot alive and executed those people who rebeled against them in Iraq and Syria, they bombed my fucking country last year and killed innocent Shia Muslims as well, my GOVERNMENT is against them if you haven't noticed. You provided excellent reasoning and points in all the debates you've had with me, but you need to understand that they're a major enemy of everybody, not just the west.

 

[Takayuki Yagami]

Citing the Qur'an is a perfectly legitimate source if the question is "What do Muslims believe?"

That's why even "Counter-Jihad" pundits cite the Qur'an a lot.

This is the "deep thoughts" board of a LOLcow forum. Nothing here follows the format of "academic debate."

There are plenty of erroneous beliefs that Christian's think are from the bible. That doesn't diminish the fact that those beliefs are common among Christians. If a belief is more common among certain groups, whether or no it's actually part of the accepted dogma or not, it must be noted and arguing about isn't going to change a true believer's mind. Muslim immigrants from poorer countries seem on average to have worse views on human rights, women, gay people, tolerance of other people's beliefs, and so on then other immigrant groups. Why? Is it something to do with the religion itself? Is it an interpretation like Wahhabism? Is there something else common within these places' histories? Quoting texts tells me what you think something means and why you think they are wrong. People can trot out quotes for just about anything with religion. It tells me nothing about why others might believe as they do.

 

[Trilby]

ISIS is a major problem right now because they are more vocal compared to other groups. They have also killed Muslims too, they burned a Jordanian pilot alive and executed those people who rebeled against them in Iraq and Syria, they bombed my fucking country last year and killed innocent Shia Muslims as well, my GOVERNMENT is against them if you haven't noticed. You provided excellent reasoning and points in all the debates you've had with me, but you need to understand that they're a major enemy of everybody, not just the west.

It's comforting to know it's not just us westerners in the boat.

 

[Ruin]

ISIS is a major problem right now because they are more vocal compared to other groups. They have also killed Muslims too, they burned a Jordanian pilot alive and executed those people who rebeled against them in Iraq and Syria, they bombed my fucking country last year and killed innocent Shia Muslims as well, my GOVERNMENT is against them if you haven't noticed. You provided excellent reasoning and points in all the debates you've had with me, but you need to understand that they're a major enemy of everybody, not just the west.

That's my fucking point. The vast majority of ISIS's victims are Muslim. But simply destroying them accomplishes nothing. Islam as an ideology and a religion needs reform or groups like ISIS will continue to pop up. In order to accomplish this however Muslims need to aknowledge the flaws in their belief system.

We tried the kill everyone approach with Bush. It doesn't work.

 

[Ntwadumela]

That's my fucking point. The vast majority of ISIS's victims are Muslim. But simply destroying them accomplishes nothing. Islam as an ideology and a religion needs reform or groups like ISIS will continue to pop up. In order to accomplish this however Muslims need to aknowledge the flaws in their belief system.

We tried the kill everyone approach with Bush. It doesn't work.

There are flaws, like people taking certain phrases and scriptures completely overboard and forgetting all the other details. Although I do know others will refuse to acknowledge these beliefs. You are definitely right in that regard and I commend you greatly. The proper representatives of my religion will need to be more vocal instead of the fucktards that are ruining our lives.

 

[Sheikh_Speare]

That's my fucking point. The vast majority of ISIS's victims are Muslim. But simply destroying them accomplishes nothing. Islam as an ideology and a religion needs reform or groups like ISIS will continue to pop up. In order to accomplish this however Muslims need to aknowledge the flaws in their belief system.

We tried the kill everyone approach with Bush. It doesn't work.

ISIS *is* a reform movement in Islam. Reformism is the source of fundamentalism. If Muslims were following traditional authorities (like al-Ghazali, Ibn 'Arabi, Sha'rani, or Nabulsi) we wouldn't be having this discussion. Fundamentalism is a distinctly modern phenomenon.

I'm not saying that if all Muslims were traditionalists that Muslims would fit perfectly into secular western liberalism. They wouldn't, nor would anyone expect them to. My point is that the distinct doctrines of groups like ISIS are no older than 200 years old, and are usually younger than that.

 

[Vitriol]

The Hanafi madhhab (the majority madhhab in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Turkey, Iraq, Jordan, Bosnia, and Albania) says that the punishment for homosexual sodomy is a ta'zir (a discretionary punishment of 10-or-less lashes, or imprisonment). This is recorded in all the major legal compilations on the Hanafi madhhab.

this is much more progressive.

The reason that narration (which, I will repeat, is a weak hadith) mentions being married is to make clear that sodomy does not fall under the same punishment as sex outside of marriage between a man and a woman, in which the punishment is not stoning, but lashing.

and the quote from the koran describing the destruction of Sodom for their sexual deviancy as death? This is in what way an acceptable outcome?

Mohammad wasn't perfect, but he was NOT. A. PEDOPHILE.

To be a pedophile you must sleep with a child your other partners are irrelevant. Aisha was nine.

Spoiler

SAHIH AL-BUKHARI

Narrated Aisha:
The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became all right, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age. (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 58, Number 234)

Narrated Hisham's father:
Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old. (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 58, Number 236)

Narrated 'Aisha:
Allah's Apostle said to me, "You were shown to me twice (in my dream) before I married you. I saw an angel carrying you in a silken piece of cloth, and I said to him, 'Uncover (her),' and behold, it was you. I said (to myself), 'If this is from Allah, then it must happen.' Then you were shown to me, the angel carrying you in a silken piece of cloth, and I said (to him), 'Uncover (her), and behold, it was you. I said (to myself), 'If this is from Allah, then it must happen.'" (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 87, Number 140; see also Number 139)

Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death). (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64; see also Numbers 65 and 8

SAHIH MUSLIM

'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house at the age of nine. She further said: We went to Medina and I had an attack of fever for a month, and my hair had come down to the earlobes. Umm Ruman (my mother) came to me and I was at that time on a swing along with my playmates. She called me loudly and I went to her and I did not know what she had wanted of me. She took hold of my hand and took me to the door, and I was saying: Ha, ha (as if I was gasping), until the agitation of my heart was over. She took me to a house, where had gathered the women of the Ansar. They all blessed me and wished me good luck and said: May you have share in good. She (my mother) entrusted me to them. They washed my head and embellished me and nothing frightened me. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) came there in the morning, and I was entrusted to him. (Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Number 3309; see also 3310)

'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married her when she was seven years old, and he was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old. (Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Number 3311)

SUNAN ABU DAWUD

Aisha said: The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) married me when I was seven years old. The narrator Sulaiman said: Or six years. He had intercourse with me when I was nine years old. (Sunan Abu Dawud, Number 2116)

Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin:
The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) married me when I was seven or six. When we came to Medina, some women came. According to Bishr's version: Umm Ruman came to me when I was swinging. They took me, made me prepared and decorated me. I was then brought to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him), and he took up cohabitation with me when I was nine. She halted me at the door, and I burst into laughter. (Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 41, Number 4915)

Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin:
The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) used to kiss her and suck her tongue when he was fasting. (Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 13, Number 2380)

SUNAN NASA‘I

… When Hadrat Aisha passed nine years of marriage life, the Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) fell in mortal sickness… ‘A’isha was eighteen years of age at the time when the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) passed away and she remained a widow for forty-eight years till she died at the age of sixty-seven. She saw the rules of four Caliphs in her lifetime. She died on Ramadan 58 A.H. during the Caliphate of Hadrat Amir Mu‘awiya… (Sunan Nasa'i: English translation with Arabic Text, compiled by Imam Abu Abd-ur-Rahman Ahmad Nasa'i, rendered into English by Muhammad Iqbal Siddiqui [Kazi Publication, 121-Zulqarnain Chambers, Gampat Road, Lahore, Pakistan; first edition, 1994], Volume 1, p. 10

SUNAN IBN-I-MAJAH

1876. ‘A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) is reported to have said: Allah’s Messenger (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) contracted marriage with me while I was (yet) a six years [sic] old girl. Then we arrived at Medina and stayed with Banu Harith b. Khazraj. I fell victim to fever; then my hair (of the head fell off (and became scattered). Then they became plenty and hanged down upto [sic] the earlobes. My mother ‘Umm Ruman came to me while I was (playing) in a swing alongwith [sic] my play-mates. She (the mother) called me loudly. I went to her and I did not know what he [sic] wanted. She seized my hand and stopped me at the door of the house and I was hearing [sic] violently until the agitation of my heart was over. Then she took some water and wiped it over my face and head. Then she admitted me to the house when some woman [sic] of Ansar were present in the house. They said, "You have entered with blessings and good fortune." Then she (the mother) entrusted me to them. So they embellished me and nothing frightened me but Allah’s Messenger (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) (when he came there) in the morning and they (the women) entrusted me to him. On that day, I was a nine years [sic] old girl."

1877. Abdullah (Allah be pleased with him) is reported to have said, "The Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) married ‘A’isha while she was a seven years [sic] old girl and took him [sic] to his house as a bride when she was nine years old and he parted with her (after his demise) when she was eighteen years old."

According to Al-Zawa‘id its isnad is sahih in accordance with the condition prescribed by Bukhari, but munqata because Abu ‘Ubaida did not hear from his father. Shu‘ba Abu Hatim and Ibn Hibban mentioned him amongst the authentic and reliable authorities. Tirmidhi in al-Jami’ and al-Mazzi in al-Atraf (has expressed the same opinion). Nasa‘i has transmitted this hadith in al-Sughra from the hadith ‘A’isha (Allah be pleased with her). (Sunan Ibn-I-Majah, Imam Abdullah Muhammad B. Yazid Ibn-I-Maja Al-Qazwini, English version by Muhammad Tufail Ansari [Kazi Publications, 121-Zulqarnain Chambers, Gampat Road, Lahore Pakistan, first edition, 1995], volume III, pp. 133-134)

IBN HISHAM

He married ‘A’isha in Mecca when she was a child of seven and lived with her in Medina when she was nine or ten. She was the only virgin that he married. Her father, Abu Bakr, married her to him and the apostle gave her four hundred dirhams. (Ibn Ishaq, Sirat Rasulullah (The Life of Muhammad), translated by Alfred Guillaume [Oxford University Press, Karachi, tenth impression 1995], p. 792)

AL-TABARI

In this year also the Messenger of God consummated his marriage with ‘A’ishah. This was in Dhu al-Qa‘dah (May-June 623) eight months after his arrival in Medina according to some accounts, or in Shawwal (April-May 623) seven months after his arrival according to others. He had married her in Mecca three years before the Hijrah, after the death of Khadijah. At that time she was six or, according to other accounts, seven years old.

According to ‘Ab al-Hamid b. Bayan al-Sukkari- Muhammad b. Yazid- Isma‘il (that is, Ibn Abi Khalid)- ‘Abd al-Rahman b. Abi al-Dahhak- a man from Quraysh- ‘Abd al-Rahman b. Muhammad: ‘Abd Allah b. Safwan together with another person came to ‘A’ishah, and ‘A’ishah said (to the latter), "O so-and-so, have you heard what Hafsah has been saying?" He said, "Yes, O Mother of the Faithful." ‘Abd Allah b. Safwan asked her, "What is that?" She replied, "There are nine special features in me that have not been in any woman, except for what God bestowed on Maryam bt. ‘Imran. By God, I do not say this to exalt myself over any of my companions." "What are these?" he asked. She replied, "The angel brought down my likeness; the Messenger of God married me when I was seven; my marriage was consummated when I was nine; he married me when I was a virgin, no other man having shared me with him; inspiration came to him when he and I were in a single blanket; I was one of the dearest people to him, a verse of the Qur’an was revealed concerning me when the community was almost destroyed; I saw Gabriel when none of his other wives saw him; and he was taken (that is, died) in his house when there was nobody with him but the angel and myself."

According to Abu Ja‘far (Al-Tabari): The Messenger of God married her, so it is said, in Shawwal, and consummated his marriage to her in a later year, also in Shawwal. (The History of Al-Tabari: The Foundation of the Community, translated by M.V. McDonald annotated by W. Montgomery Watt [State University of New York Press, Albany 1987], Volume VII, pp. 6-7)

Sa‘id b. Yahya b. Sa‘id al-Umawi- his father- Muhammad b. ‘Amr- Yahya b. ‘Abd al-Rahman b. Hatib- ‘A’isha: When Khadijah died, Khawlah bt. Hakim b. Umayyah b. al-Awqas, wife of ‘Uthman b. Maz‘un, who was in Mecca, said [to the Messenger of God], "O Messenger of God, will you not marry?" He replied, "Whom?" "A maiden," she said, "if you like, or a non-maiden." He replied, "Who is the maiden?" "The daughter of the dearest creature of God to you," she answered, "‘A’ishah bt. Abi Bakr." He asked, "And who is the non-maiden?" "Sawdah bt. Zam‘ah b. Qays," she replied, "she has [long] believed in you and has followed you." [So the Prophet] asked her to go and propose to them on his behalf.

She went to Abu Bakr’s house, where she found Umm Ruman, mother of ‘A’ishah, and said, "O Umm Ruman, what a good thing and a blessing has God brought to you!" She said, "What is that?" Khawlah replied, "The Messenger of God has sent me to ask for ‘A’ishah’s hand in marriage on his behalf." She answered, "I ask that you wait for Abu Bakr, for he should be on his way." When Abu Bakr came, Khawlah repeated what she had said. He replied, "She is [like] his brother’s daughter. Would she be appropriate for him?" When Khawlah returned to the Messenger of God and told him about it he said, "Go back to him and say that he is my brother in Islam and that I am his brother [in Islam], so his daughter is good for me." She came to Abu Bakr and told him what the Messenger of God had said. Then he asked her to wait until he returned.

Umm Ruman said that al-Mut‘im b. ‘Adi had asked ‘A’ishah’s hand for his son, but Abu Bakr had not promised anything. Abu Bakr left and went to Mut‘im while his wife, mother of the son for whom he had asked ‘A’ishah’s hand, was with him. She said, "O son of Abu Quhafah, perhaps we could marry our son to your daughter if you could make him leave his religion and bring him in to the religion which you practice." He turned to her husband al-Mut‘im and said, "What is she saying?" He replied, "She says [what you have heard]." Abu Bakr left, [realizing that] God had [just] removed the problem he had in his mind. He said to Khawlah, "Call the Messenger of God." She called him and he came. Abu Bakr married [‘A’ishah] to him when she was [only] six years old. (The History of Al-Tabari: The Last Years of the Prophet, translated and annotated by Ismail K. Poonawala [State University of New York Press, Albany 1990], Volume IX, pp. 129-130)

‘A’ishah states: We came to Medina and Abu Bakr took up quarters in al-Sunh among the Banu al-Harith b. al-Khazraj. The Messenger of God came to our house and men and women of the Ansar gathered around him. My mother came to me WHILE I WAS BEING SWUNG ON A SWING BETWEEN TWO BRANCHES AND GOT ME DOWN. Jumaymah, my nurse, took over and wiped my face with some water and started leading me. When I was at the door, she stopped so I could catch my breath. I was then brought [in] while the Messenger of God was sitting on a bed in our house. [My mother] made me sit on his lap and said, "These are your relatives. May God bless you with them and bless them with you!" Then the men and women got up and left. The Messenger of God consummated his marriage with me in my house when I was nine years old. Neither a camel nor a sheep was slaughtered on behalf of me. Only Sa‘d b. ‘Ubaidah sent a bowl of food which he used to send to the Messenger of God.

‘Ali b. Nasr- ‘Abd al-Samad b. ‘Abd al-Warith- ‘Abd al-Warith b. ‘Abd al-Samad- his father- Aban al-‘Attar- Hisham b. ‘Urwah- ‘Urwah: He wrote to ‘Abd al-Malik b. Marwan stating that he had written to him about Khadijah bt. Khuwaylid, asking him about when she died. She died three years or close to that before the Messenger of God’s departure from Mecca, and he married ‘A’ishah after Khadijah’s death. The Messenger of God saw ‘A’ishah twice- [first when] it was said to him that she was his wife (she was six years old at that time), and later [when] he consummated she was nine years old.

(The report goes back to Hisham b. Muhammad. See above, I, 1766). Then the Messenger of God married ‘A’ishah bt. Abi Bakr, whose name is ‘Atiq b. Abi Quhafah, who is ‘Uthman, and is called ‘Abd al-Rahman b. ‘Uthman b. ‘Amir b. ‘Amir b. Ka‘b b. Sa‘d b. Taym b. Murrah: [The Prophet] married her three years before the Emigration, when she was seven years old, and consummated the marriage when she was nine years old, after he had emigrated to Medina in Shawwal. She was eighteen years old when he died. The Messenger of God did not marry any maiden except her. (The History of al-Tabari, Volume IX, pp. 130-131)

‘A’ishah, daughter of Abu Bakr.

Her mother was Umm Ruman bt. ‘Umayr b. ‘Amr, of the Banu Duhman b. al-Harith b. Ghanm b. Malik b. Kinanah.

The Prophet married ‘A’ishah in Shawwal in the tenth year after the [beginning of his] prophethood, three years before Emigration. He consummated the marriage in Shawwal, eight months after Emigration. On the day he consummated the marriage with her she was nine years old.

According to Ibn ‘Umayr [al-Waqidi]- Musa b. Muhammad b. ‘Abd al-Rahman- Raytah- ‘Amrah [bt. ‘Abd al-Rahman b. Sa’d]: ‘A’ishah was asked when the Prophet consummated his marriage with her, and she said:

The Prophet left us and his daughters behind when he emigrated to Medina. Having arrived at Medina, he sent Zayd b. Harithah and his client Abu Rafi’ for us. He gave them two camels and 500 dirhams he had taken from Abu Bakr to buy [other] beasts they needed. Abu Bakr sent with them ‘Abdallah b. Urayqit al-Dili, with two or three camels. He wrote to [his son] ‘Abdallah b. Abi Bakr to take his wife Umm Ruman, together with me and my sister Asma’, al-Zubayr’s wife, [and leave for Medina]. They all left [Medina] together, and when they arrived at Qudayd Zayd b. Harithah bought three camels with those 500 dirhams. All of them then entered Mecca, where they met Talhah b. ‘Ubaydallah on his way to leave town, together with Abu Bakr’s family. So we all left: Zayd b. Harithah, Abu Rafi’, Fatimah, Umm Kulthum, and Sawdah bt. Zam‘ah. Ayd mounted Umm Ayman and [his son] Usamah b. Zayd on a riding beast; ‘Abdallah b. Abi Bakr took Umm Ruman and his two sisters, and Talhah b. ‘Ubaydallah came [too]. We all went together, and when we reached Bayd in Tamanni my camel broke loose. I was sitting in the litter together with my mother, and she started exclaiming "Alas, my daughter, alas [you] bride"; then they caught up with our camel, after it had safely descended the Lift. We then arrived at Medina, and I stayed with Abu Bakr’s children, and [Abu Bakr] went to the Prophet. The latter was then busy building the mosque and our homes around it, where he [later] housed his wives. We stayed in Abu Bakr’s house for a few days; then Abu Bakr asked [the Prophet] "O Messenger of God, what prevents you from consummating the marriage with your wife?" The Prophet said "The bridal gift (sadaq)." Abu Bakr gave him the bridal gift, twelve and a half ounces [of gold], and the Prophet sent for us. He consummated our marriage in my house, the one where I live now and where he passed away. (The History of Al-Tabari: Biographies of the Prophet’s Companions and Their Successors, translated by Ella Landau-Tasseron [State University of New York Press, Albany 1998], Volume XXXIX, pp. 171-173; underline emphasis ours)

IBN KATHIR

Yunus b. Bukayr stated, from Hisham b. ‘Urwa, from his father who said, "The Messenger of God (SAAS) married ‘A’isha three years after (the death of) Khadija. At that time (of the contract) ‘A’isha had been a girl of six. When he married her she was nine. The Messenger of God (SAAS) died when ‘A’isha was a girl of eighteen. "

This tradition is considered gharib (unique in this line).

Al-Bukhari had related, from ‘Ubayd b. Isma‘il, from Abu Usama, from Hisham b. ‘Urwa, from his father, who said, "Khadija died three years before the emigration of the Prophet (SAAS). He allowed a couple of years or so to pass after that, and then he contracted marriage with ‘A’isha when she was six, thereafter consummating marriage with her when she was nine years old."

What ‘Urwah stated here is mursal, incomplete, as we mentioned above, but in its content it must be judged as muttasil, uninterrupted.

His statement, "He contracted marriage with ‘A’isha when she was six, thereafter consummating marriage with her when she was nine" IS NOT DISPUTED BY ANYONE, and is well established in the sahih collections of traditions and elsewhere.

He consummated marriage with her during the second year following the emigration to Medina.

His contracting marriage with her took place some three years after Khadija’s death, though there is disagreement over this.

The hafiz Ya‘qub b. Sufyan stated, "Al-Hajjaj related to us, that Hammad related to him, from Hisham b. ‘Urwa, from his father, from ‘A’isha, who said, ‘The Messenger of God (SAAS), contracted marriage with me (after) Khadija’s death and before his emigration from Mecca, when I was six years old. After we arrived in Medina some women came to me while I was playing on a swing; my hair was like that of a boy. They dressed me up and put make-up on me, then took me to the Messenger of God (SAAS), and he consummated our marriage. I was a girl of nine.’"

The statement here "muttawaffa Khadija", "Khadija’s death" has to mean that it was shortly thereafter. Unless, that is, the word, ba‘da, "after", originally preceded this phrase and had been omitted from the account. The statement made by Yunus b. Bukayr and Abu Usama from Hisham b. ‘Urwa, from his father, is, therefore, not refuted. But God knows best. (Ibn Kathir, The Life of the Prophet Muhammad (Al-Sira al-Nabawiyya), Volume II, translated by professor Trevor Le Gassick, reviewed by Dr. Muneer Fareed [Garnet Publishing Limited, 8 Southern Court, south Street Reading RG1 4QS, UK; The Center for Muslim Contribution to Civilization, first paper edition, 2000], pp. 93-94)

IBN QAYYIM

Next, the Prophet… married Um Abdallah, Aishah, as-Siddiqah (the truthful one), daughter of as-Siddiq (the truthful one) Abu Bakr ibn Abi Qu’hafah, whom Allah has exonerated from above the seven heavens. ‘Aishah bint Abu Bakr was the beloved wife of the Prophet… The angel showed Aishah… to the Prophet… while she was wrapped in a piece of silk cloth, before he married her, and said to him. "This is your wife." The Prophet… married Aishah… during the lunar month of Shawwal, when she was six, and consummated the marriage in the first year after the Hijrah, in the month of Shawwal, when she was nine. The Prophet… did not marry any virgin, except Aishah… and the revelation never came to him while he was under the blanket with any of his wives, except Aishah. (Ibn Qayyim Al-Juaziyyah, Zad-ul Ma’ad fi Hadyi Khairi-l ‘Ibad (Provisions for the Hereafter, From the Guidance of Allah’s Best Worshipper), translated by Jalal Abualrub, edited by Alaa Mencke & Shaheed M. Ali [Madinah Publishers & Distributors, Orlando, Fl: First edition, December 2000], Volume I, pp. 157-15

MARTIN LINGS

During the same year that followed Khadijah’s death, the Prophet dreamed that he saw a man who was carrying someone wrapped in a piece of silk. The man said to him: "This is thy wife, so uncover her." The Prophet lifted the silk and there was ‘A’ishah. But ‘A’ishah was only six years old, and he had passed his fiftieth year. Moreover Abu Bakr had promised her to Mut‘im for his son Jubayr. The Prophet simply said to himself: "If this be from God, He will bring it to pass." …

Meantime Abu Bakr approached Mut‘im, who was persuaded without difficulty to forgo the marriage of ‘A’ishah to his son; and, some months after the marriage of Sawdah, ‘A’ishah also became the Prophet’s wife, through a marriage contracted by him and her father, at which she herself was not present. She said afterwards, that she had her first inkling of her new status when one day she was playing with her friends outside, not far from their house, and her mother came and too her by the hand and led her indoors, telling her that henceforth she must not go out to play, and that her friends must come to her instead. ‘A’ishah dimly guessed the reason, though her mother did not immediately tell her that she was married; and apart from having to play in their courtyard instead of in the roads, her life continued as before. (Lings,Muhammad: His Life Based on the Earliest Sources [Inner Traditions, International, Ltd.; Rochester Vermont, 1983], pp. 105-106)

The Prophet and his daughters now went to live with Sawda in her new house; and after a month or two it was decided that ‘A’ishah’s wedding should take place. She was then only nine years old, a child of remarkable beauty, as might have been expected from her parentage…

Small preparations were made for the wedding- not enough, at any rate for ‘A’ishah to have had a sense of a great and solemn occasion, and shortly before they were due to leave the house she had slipped out into the courtyard to play with her passing friend. In her own words: "I was playing on a see-saw and my long streaming hair was disheveled. They came and took me from my play and made me ready."

Abu Bakr had bought some fine red-striped cloth from Bahrain and it had been made into a wedding-dress for her. In this they now clothed her. Then her mother took her to the newly built house where some women of the Helpers were waiting for her outside the door. They greeted her with the words "For good and for happiness- may all be well!" and led her into the presence of the Prophet. He stood their smiling and combed her hair and decked her with ornaments. Unlike his other marriages, at this there was no wedding feast… then they all went their ways, and the bridegroom and the bride were left together.

For the last three years scarcely a day had passed by without one or more of ‘A’ishah’s friends coming to play with her in the courtyard adjoining her father’s house. Her removal to the Prophet’s house changed nothing in this respect. Friends now came every day to visit her in her own apartment – new friends made since her arrival in Medina and also some of the old ones whose parents, like hers, had emigrated. "I would be playing with my dolls," she said, "with the girls who were my friends, and the Prophet would come in and they would steal out of the house and he would go out after them and bring them back, for he was pleased for my sake to have them there." Sometimes he would say "Stay where ye are" before they had time to move. He would also join in their games sometimes, FOR HE LOVED CHILDREN [Sam- meaning Aisha was only a child like them] and had often played with his own daughters. The dolls of puppets had many different roles. "One day," said ‘A’ishah, "the Prophet came in when I was playing with the dolls and he said: ‘O ‘A’ishah, whatever game is this?’ I said: ‘It is Solomon’s horses,’ and he laughed." But sometimes as he came in he would simply screen himself with his cloak so as not to disturb them. (Ibid., pp. 132-134)

SAIF-UR-RAHMAN AL-MUBARAKPURI

3. 'Aishah bint Abu Bakr: He married her in the eleventh year of Prophethood, a year after his marriage to Sawdah, and two years and five months before Al-Hijra. She was six years old when he married her. However, he did not consummate the marriage with her till Shawwal seven months after Al-Hijra, and that was in Madinah. She was nine then. She was the only virgin he married, and the most beloved creature to him. As a woman she was the most learnèd woman in jurisprudence. (Ar-Raheeq Al-Makhtum (THE SEALED NECTAR) Biography of the Noble Prophet, [Maktaba Dar-us-Salam Publishers & Distributors, First Edition 1995],

I realise this is upsetting but im of the opinion the experience was likely worse for poor wee aisha.

Also, there is a lot of documentation of his good and charitable deeds, even Gandhi considered him to be a great person.

Ghandi also praised hitler. He was not a good judge of character and endorsed anyone he thought would cause trouble for the british- considering he was trying to ignite indian nationalism and rally his countrymen and that the most successful millitary leaders against the british in india before the raj were muslims it is not surprising he would praise mohammed.

It doesnt really matter how many times you give to charity if you are a slave taking warlord who is sleeping with a nine year old you are an awful human. I believe Hitler was also good to animals and protected german workers rights.

I understand your point of view, but know this: I never once said anything about supporting extremists and have been condemning them this whole time. If you want to find the deeper meaning of the Quran, study the Arabic language instead of reading half-assed translations online.

Deeper meanings are fairly irrelevent- one can find deep meanings in harry potter or sonic the hedgehog if one looks. The only thing that is relevant is what people actually believe and act on and islam is, in the modern world, causing widespread violence as people try and emulate its barbarian medieval founder.

Abu Dawud's Sunan is a mixed bag, by the admission of Abu Dawud himself (he occasionally wrote notes indicating the strength or weakness of a hadith). Occasionally he would place contradictory hadith right next to each other for contrast's sake.

The execution of homosexuals is a disagreed upon matter. Ibn Hazm, one of the strictest and most literal jurists in Islamic history, said that all the ahadith indicating a death penalty for sodomy were weak.

The Hanafi madhhab (the majority madhhab in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Turkey, Iraq, Jordan, Bosnia, and Albania) says that the punishment for homosexual sodomy is a ta'zir (a discretionary punishment of 10-or-less lashes, or imprisonment). This is recorded in all the major legal compilations on the Hanafi madhhab.



There is no implicit approval of sodomizing one's wife. Unlike the ahadith prescribing the death penalty for homosexual sodomy, the ahadith forbidding anal sex with one's wife are mutawatir (mass-transmitted) and there is 'ijma (absolute consensus) among the four madhhabs of Sunni Islam that anal sex with one's wife is haram (though there is a minority opinion among the Shi'ites allowing it).

The reason that narration (which, I will repeat, is a weak hadith) mentions being married is to make clear that sodomy does not fall under the same punishment as sex outside of marriage between a man and a woman, in which the punishment is not stoning, but lashing.

this is one opinion but 1) it is still horribly oppresaive and backward and 2) a sizeable number of muslim clerics and academics disagree with that assessment and have issued fatwas against their proponents. No other religion is causing that scale of problem in the world today and arguing that those muslims are doing it wrong is to ignoe that they are commiting those actions because that is what to them islam means and if so many people can read the koran and its hadiths and come to that conclusion there is clearly a problem with islam.

The problem being that it glorifies and encourages the actions of a 7th century warlord with 7th century morals.

 

[Ntwadumela]

this is much more progressive.

and the quote from the koran describing the destruction of Sodom for their sexual deviancy as death? This is in what way an acceptable outcome?

To be a pedophile you must sleep with a child your other partners are irrelevant. Aisha was nine.

Spoiler

SAHIH AL-BUKHARI

Narrated Aisha:
The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became all right, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age. (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 58, Number 234)

Narrated Hisham's father:
Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old. (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 58, Number 236)

Narrated 'Aisha:
Allah's Apostle said to me, "You were shown to me twice (in my dream) before I married you. I saw an angel carrying you in a silken piece of cloth, and I said to him, 'Uncover (her),' and behold, it was you. I said (to myself), 'If this is from Allah, then it must happen.' Then you were shown to me, the angel carrying you in a silken piece of cloth, and I said (to him), 'Uncover (her), and behold, it was you. I said (to myself), 'If this is from Allah, then it must happen.'" (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 87, Number 140; see also Number 139)

Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death). (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64; see also Numbers 65 and 8

SAHIH MUSLIM

'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house at the age of nine. She further said: We went to Medina and I had an attack of fever for a month, and my hair had come down to the earlobes. Umm Ruman (my mother) came to me and I was at that time on a swing along with my playmates. She called me loudly and I went to her and I did not know what she had wanted of me. She took hold of my hand and took me to the door, and I was saying: Ha, ha (as if I was gasping), until the agitation of my heart was over. She took me to a house, where had gathered the women of the Ansar. They all blessed me and wished me good luck and said: May you have share in good. She (my mother) entrusted me to them. They washed my head and embellished me and nothing frightened me. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) came there in the morning, and I was entrusted to him. (Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Number 3309; see also 3310)

'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married her when she was seven years old, and he was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old. (Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Number 3311)

SUNAN ABU DAWUD

Aisha said: The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) married me when I was seven years old. The narrator Sulaiman said: Or six years. He had intercourse with me when I was nine years old. (Sunan Abu Dawud, Number 2116)

Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin:
The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) married me when I was seven or six. When we came to Medina, some women came. According to Bishr's version: Umm Ruman came to me when I was swinging. They took me, made me prepared and decorated me. I was then brought to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him), and he took up cohabitation with me when I was nine. She halted me at the door, and I burst into laughter. (Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 41, Number 4915)

Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin:
The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) used to kiss her and suck her tongue when he was fasting. (Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 13, Number 2380)

SUNAN NASA‘I

… When Hadrat Aisha passed nine years of marriage life, the Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) fell in mortal sickness… ‘A’isha was eighteen years of age at the time when the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) passed away and she remained a widow for forty-eight years till she died at the age of sixty-seven. She saw the rules of four Caliphs in her lifetime. She died on Ramadan 58 A.H. during the Caliphate of Hadrat Amir Mu‘awiya… (Sunan Nasa'i: English translation with Arabic Text, compiled by Imam Abu Abd-ur-Rahman Ahmad Nasa'i, rendered into English by Muhammad Iqbal Siddiqui [Kazi Publication, 121-Zulqarnain Chambers, Gampat Road, Lahore, Pakistan; first edition, 1994], Volume 1, p. 10

SUNAN IBN-I-MAJAH

1876. ‘A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) is reported to have said: Allah’s Messenger (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) contracted marriage with me while I was (yet) a six years [sic] old girl. Then we arrived at Medina and stayed with Banu Harith b. Khazraj. I fell victim to fever; then my hair (of the head fell off (and became scattered). Then they became plenty and hanged down upto [sic] the earlobes. My mother ‘Umm Ruman came to me while I was (playing) in a swing alongwith [sic] my play-mates. She (the mother) called me loudly. I went to her and I did not know what he [sic] wanted. She seized my hand and stopped me at the door of the house and I was hearing [sic] violently until the agitation of my heart was over. Then she took some water and wiped it over my face and head. Then she admitted me to the house when some woman [sic] of Ansar were present in the house. They said, "You have entered with blessings and good fortune." Then she (the mother) entrusted me to them. So they embellished me and nothing frightened me but Allah’s Messenger (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) (when he came there) in the morning and they (the women) entrusted me to him. On that day, I was a nine years [sic] old girl."

1877. Abdullah (Allah be pleased with him) is reported to have said, "The Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) married ‘A’isha while she was a seven years [sic] old girl and took him [sic] to his house as a bride when she was nine years old and he parted with her (after his demise) when she was eighteen years old."

According to Al-Zawa‘id its isnad is sahih in accordance with the condition prescribed by Bukhari, but munqata because Abu ‘Ubaida did not hear from his father. Shu‘ba Abu Hatim and Ibn Hibban mentioned him amongst the authentic and reliable authorities. Tirmidhi in al-Jami’ and al-Mazzi in al-Atraf (has expressed the same opinion). Nasa‘i has transmitted this hadith in al-Sughra from the hadith ‘A’isha (Allah be pleased with her). (Sunan Ibn-I-Majah, Imam Abdullah Muhammad B. Yazid Ibn-I-Maja Al-Qazwini, English version by Muhammad Tufail Ansari [Kazi Publications, 121-Zulqarnain Chambers, Gampat Road, Lahore Pakistan, first edition, 1995], volume III, pp. 133-134)

IBN HISHAM

He married ‘A’isha in Mecca when she was a child of seven and lived with her in Medina when she was nine or ten. She was the only virgin that he married. Her father, Abu Bakr, married her to him and the apostle gave her four hundred dirhams. (Ibn Ishaq, Sirat Rasulullah (The Life of Muhammad), translated by Alfred Guillaume [Oxford University Press, Karachi, tenth impression 1995], p. 792)

AL-TABARI

In this year also the Messenger of God consummated his marriage with ‘A’ishah. This was in Dhu al-Qa‘dah (May-June 623) eight months after his arrival in Medina according to some accounts, or in Shawwal (April-May 623) seven months after his arrival according to others. He had married her in Mecca three years before the Hijrah, after the death of Khadijah. At that time she was six or, according to other accounts, seven years old.

According to ‘Ab al-Hamid b. Bayan al-Sukkari- Muhammad b. Yazid- Isma‘il (that is, Ibn Abi Khalid)- ‘Abd al-Rahman b. Abi al-Dahhak- a man from Quraysh- ‘Abd al-Rahman b. Muhammad: ‘Abd Allah b. Safwan together with another person came to ‘A’ishah, and ‘A’ishah said (to the latter), "O so-and-so, have you heard what Hafsah has been saying?" He said, "Yes, O Mother of the Faithful." ‘Abd Allah b. Safwan asked her, "What is that?" She replied, "There are nine special features in me that have not been in any woman, except for what God bestowed on Maryam bt. ‘Imran. By God, I do not say this to exalt myself over any of my companions." "What are these?" he asked. She replied, "The angel brought down my likeness; the Messenger of God married me when I was seven; my marriage was consummated when I was nine; he married me when I was a virgin, no other man having shared me with him; inspiration came to him when he and I were in a single blanket; I was one of the dearest people to him, a verse of the Qur’an was revealed concerning me when the community was almost destroyed; I saw Gabriel when none of his other wives saw him; and he was taken (that is, died) in his house when there was nobody with him but the angel and myself."

According to Abu Ja‘far (Al-Tabari): The Messenger of God married her, so it is said, in Shawwal, and consummated his marriage to her in a later year, also in Shawwal. (The History of Al-Tabari: The Foundation of the Community, translated by M.V. McDonald annotated by W. Montgomery Watt [State University of New York Press, Albany 1987], Volume VII, pp. 6-7)

Sa‘id b. Yahya b. Sa‘id al-Umawi- his father- Muhammad b. ‘Amr- Yahya b. ‘Abd al-Rahman b. Hatib- ‘A’isha: When Khadijah died, Khawlah bt. Hakim b. Umayyah b. al-Awqas, wife of ‘Uthman b. Maz‘un, who was in Mecca, said [to the Messenger of God], "O Messenger of God, will you not marry?" He replied, "Whom?" "A maiden," she said, "if you like, or a non-maiden." He replied, "Who is the maiden?" "The daughter of the dearest creature of God to you," she answered, "‘A’ishah bt. Abi Bakr." He asked, "And who is the non-maiden?" "Sawdah bt. Zam‘ah b. Qays," she replied, "she has [long] believed in you and has followed you." [So the Prophet] asked her to go and propose to them on his behalf.

She went to Abu Bakr’s house, where she found Umm Ruman, mother of ‘A’ishah, and said, "O Umm Ruman, what a good thing and a blessing has God brought to you!" She said, "What is that?" Khawlah replied, "The Messenger of God has sent me to ask for ‘A’ishah’s hand in marriage on his behalf." She answered, "I ask that you wait for Abu Bakr, for he should be on his way." When Abu Bakr came, Khawlah repeated what she had said. He replied, "She is [like] his brother’s daughter. Would she be appropriate for him?" When Khawlah returned to the Messenger of God and told him about it he said, "Go back to him and say that he is my brother in Islam and that I am his brother [in Islam], so his daughter is good for me." She came to Abu Bakr and told him what the Messenger of God had said. Then he asked her to wait until he returned.

Umm Ruman said that al-Mut‘im b. ‘Adi had asked ‘A’ishah’s hand for his son, but Abu Bakr had not promised anything. Abu Bakr left and went to Mut‘im while his wife, mother of the son for whom he had asked ‘A’ishah’s hand, was with him. She said, "O son of Abu Quhafah, perhaps we could marry our son to your daughter if you could make him leave his religion and bring him in to the religion which you practice." He turned to her husband al-Mut‘im and said, "What is she saying?" He replied, "She says [what you have heard]." Abu Bakr left, [realizing that] God had [just] removed the problem he had in his mind. He said to Khawlah, "Call the Messenger of God." She called him and he came. Abu Bakr married [‘A’ishah] to him when she was [only] six years old. (The History of Al-Tabari: The Last Years of the Prophet, translated and annotated by Ismail K. Poonawala [State University of New York Press, Albany 1990], Volume IX, pp. 129-130)

‘A’ishah states: We came to Medina and Abu Bakr took up quarters in al-Sunh among the Banu al-Harith b. al-Khazraj. The Messenger of God came to our house and men and women of the Ansar gathered around him. My mother came to me WHILE I WAS BEING SWUNG ON A SWING BETWEEN TWO BRANCHES AND GOT ME DOWN. Jumaymah, my nurse, took over and wiped my face with some water and started leading me. When I was at the door, she stopped so I could catch my breath. I was then brought [in] while the Messenger of God was sitting on a bed in our house. [My mother] made me sit on his lap and said, "These are your relatives. May God bless you with them and bless them with you!" Then the men and women got up and left. The Messenger of God consummated his marriage with me in my house when I was nine years old. Neither a camel nor a sheep was slaughtered on behalf of me. Only Sa‘d b. ‘Ubaidah sent a bowl of food which he used to send to the Messenger of God.

‘Ali b. Nasr- ‘Abd al-Samad b. ‘Abd al-Warith- ‘Abd al-Warith b. ‘Abd al-Samad- his father- Aban al-‘Attar- Hisham b. ‘Urwah- ‘Urwah: He wrote to ‘Abd al-Malik b. Marwan stating that he had written to him about Khadijah bt. Khuwaylid, asking him about when she died. She died three years or close to that before the Messenger of God’s departure from Mecca, and he married ‘A’ishah after Khadijah’s death. The Messenger of God saw ‘A’ishah twice- [first when] it was said to him that she was his wife (she was six years old at that time), and later [when] he consummated she was nine years old.

(The report goes back to Hisham b. Muhammad. See above, I, 1766). Then the Messenger of God married ‘A’ishah bt. Abi Bakr, whose name is ‘Atiq b. Abi Quhafah, who is ‘Uthman, and is called ‘Abd al-Rahman b. ‘Uthman b. ‘Amir b. ‘Amir b. Ka‘b b. Sa‘d b. Taym b. Murrah: [The Prophet] married her three years before the Emigration, when she was seven years old, and consummated the marriage when she was nine years old, after he had emigrated to Medina in Shawwal. She was eighteen years old when he died. The Messenger of God did not marry any maiden except her. (The History of al-Tabari, Volume IX, pp. 130-131)

‘A’ishah, daughter of Abu Bakr.

Her mother was Umm Ruman bt. ‘Umayr b. ‘Amr, of the Banu Duhman b. al-Harith b. Ghanm b. Malik b. Kinanah.

The Prophet married ‘A’ishah in Shawwal in the tenth year after the [beginning of his] prophethood, three years before Emigration. He consummated the marriage in Shawwal, eight months after Emigration. On the day he consummated the marriage with her she was nine years old.

According to Ibn ‘Umayr [al-Waqidi]- Musa b. Muhammad b. ‘Abd al-Rahman- Raytah- ‘Amrah [bt. ‘Abd al-Rahman b. Sa’d]: ‘A’ishah was asked when the Prophet consummated his marriage with her, and she said:

The Prophet left us and his daughters behind when he emigrated to Medina. Having arrived at Medina, he sent Zayd b. Harithah and his client Abu Rafi’ for us. He gave them two camels and 500 dirhams he had taken from Abu Bakr to buy [other] beasts they needed. Abu Bakr sent with them ‘Abdallah b. Urayqit al-Dili, with two or three camels. He wrote to [his son] ‘Abdallah b. Abi Bakr to take his wife Umm Ruman, together with me and my sister Asma’, al-Zubayr’s wife, [and leave for Medina]. They all left [Medina] together, and when they arrived at Qudayd Zayd b. Harithah bought three camels with those 500 dirhams. All of them then entered Mecca, where they met Talhah b. ‘Ubaydallah on his way to leave town, together with Abu Bakr’s family. So we all left: Zayd b. Harithah, Abu Rafi’, Fatimah, Umm Kulthum, and Sawdah bt. Zam‘ah. Ayd mounted Umm Ayman and [his son] Usamah b. Zayd on a riding beast; ‘Abdallah b. Abi Bakr took Umm Ruman and his two sisters, and Talhah b. ‘Ubaydallah came [too]. We all went together, and when we reached Bayd in Tamanni my camel broke loose. I was sitting in the litter together with my mother, and she started exclaiming "Alas, my daughter, alas [you] bride"; then they caught up with our camel, after it had safely descended the Lift. We then arrived at Medina, and I stayed with Abu Bakr’s children, and [Abu Bakr] went to the Prophet. The latter was then busy building the mosque and our homes around it, where he [later] housed his wives. We stayed in Abu Bakr’s house for a few days; then Abu Bakr asked [the Prophet] "O Messenger of God, what prevents you from consummating the marriage with your wife?" The Prophet said "The bridal gift (sadaq)." Abu Bakr gave him the bridal gift, twelve and a half ounces [of gold], and the Prophet sent for us. He consummated our marriage in my house, the one where I live now and where he passed away. (The History of Al-Tabari: Biographies of the Prophet’s Companions and Their Successors, translated by Ella Landau-Tasseron [State University of New York Press, Albany 1998], Volume XXXIX, pp. 171-173; underline emphasis ours)

IBN KATHIR

Yunus b. Bukayr stated, from Hisham b. ‘Urwa, from his father who said, "The Messenger of God (SAAS) married ‘A’isha three years after (the death of) Khadija. At that time (of the contract) ‘A’isha had been a girl of six. When he married her she was nine. The Messenger of God (SAAS) died when ‘A’isha was a girl of eighteen. "

This tradition is considered gharib (unique in this line).

Al-Bukhari had related, from ‘Ubayd b. Isma‘il, from Abu Usama, from Hisham b. ‘Urwa, from his father, who said, "Khadija died three years before the emigration of the Prophet (SAAS). He allowed a couple of years or so to pass after that, and then he contracted marriage with ‘A’isha when she was six, thereafter consummating marriage with her when she was nine years old."

What ‘Urwah stated here is mursal, incomplete, as we mentioned above, but in its content it must be judged as muttasil, uninterrupted.

His statement, "He contracted marriage with ‘A’isha when she was six, thereafter consummating marriage with her when she was nine" IS NOT DISPUTED BY ANYONE, and is well established in the sahih collections of traditions and elsewhere.

He consummated marriage with her during the second year following the emigration to Medina.

His contracting marriage with her took place some three years after Khadija’s death, though there is disagreement over this.

The hafiz Ya‘qub b. Sufyan stated, "Al-Hajjaj related to us, that Hammad related to him, from Hisham b. ‘Urwa, from his father, from ‘A’isha, who said, ‘The Messenger of God (SAAS), contracted marriage with me (after) Khadija’s death and before his emigration from Mecca, when I was six years old. After we arrived in Medina some women came to me while I was playing on a swing; my hair was like that of a boy. They dressed me up and put make-up on me, then took me to the Messenger of God (SAAS), and he consummated our marriage. I was a girl of nine.’"

The statement here "muttawaffa Khadija", "Khadija’s death" has to mean that it was shortly thereafter. Unless, that is, the word, ba‘da, "after", originally preceded this phrase and had been omitted from the account. The statement made by Yunus b. Bukayr and Abu Usama from Hisham b. ‘Urwa, from his father, is, therefore, not refuted. But God knows best. (Ibn Kathir, The Life of the Prophet Muhammad (Al-Sira al-Nabawiyya), Volume II, translated by professor Trevor Le Gassick, reviewed by Dr. Muneer Fareed [Garnet Publishing Limited, 8 Southern Court, south Street Reading RG1 4QS, UK; The Center for Muslim Contribution to Civilization, first paper edition, 2000], pp. 93-94)

IBN QAYYIM

Next, the Prophet… married Um Abdallah, Aishah, as-Siddiqah (the truthful one), daughter of as-Siddiq (the truthful one) Abu Bakr ibn Abi Qu’hafah, whom Allah has exonerated from above the seven heavens. ‘Aishah bint Abu Bakr was the beloved wife of the Prophet… The angel showed Aishah… to the Prophet… while she was wrapped in a piece of silk cloth, before he married her, and said to him. "This is your wife." The Prophet… married Aishah… during the lunar month of Shawwal, when she was six, and consummated the marriage in the first year after the Hijrah, in the month of Shawwal, when she was nine. The Prophet… did not marry any virgin, except Aishah… and the revelation never came to him while he was under the blanket with any of his wives, except Aishah. (Ibn Qayyim Al-Juaziyyah, Zad-ul Ma’ad fi Hadyi Khairi-l ‘Ibad (Provisions for the Hereafter, From the Guidance of Allah’s Best Worshipper), translated by Jalal Abualrub, edited by Alaa Mencke & Shaheed M. Ali [Madinah Publishers & Distributors, Orlando, Fl: First edition, December 2000], Volume I, pp. 157-15

MARTIN LINGS

During the same year that followed Khadijah’s death, the Prophet dreamed that he saw a man who was carrying someone wrapped in a piece of silk. The man said to him: "This is thy wife, so uncover her." The Prophet lifted the silk and there was ‘A’ishah. But ‘A’ishah was only six years old, and he had passed his fiftieth year. Moreover Abu Bakr had promised her to Mut‘im for his son Jubayr. The Prophet simply said to himself: "If this be from God, He will bring it to pass." …

Meantime Abu Bakr approached Mut‘im, who was persuaded without difficulty to forgo the marriage of ‘A’ishah to his son; and, some months after the marriage of Sawdah, ‘A’ishah also became the Prophet’s wife, through a marriage contracted by him and her father, at which she herself was not present. She said afterwards, that she had her first inkling of her new status when one day she was playing with her friends outside, not far from their house, and her mother came and too her by the hand and led her indoors, telling her that henceforth she must not go out to play, and that her friends must come to her instead. ‘A’ishah dimly guessed the reason, though her mother did not immediately tell her that she was married; and apart from having to play in their courtyard instead of in the roads, her life continued as before. (Lings,Muhammad: His Life Based on the Earliest Sources [Inner Traditions, International, Ltd.; Rochester Vermont, 1983], pp. 105-106)

The Prophet and his daughters now went to live with Sawda in her new house; and after a month or two it was decided that ‘A’ishah’s wedding should take place. She was then only nine years old, a child of remarkable beauty, as might have been expected from her parentage…

Small preparations were made for the wedding- not enough, at any rate for ‘A’ishah to have had a sense of a great and solemn occasion, and shortly before they were due to leave the house she had slipped out into the courtyard to play with her passing friend. In her own words: "I was playing on a see-saw and my long streaming hair was disheveled. They came and took me from my play and made me ready."

Abu Bakr had bought some fine red-striped cloth from Bahrain and it had been made into a wedding-dress for her. In this they now clothed her. Then her mother took her to the newly built house where some women of the Helpers were waiting for her outside the door. They greeted her with the words "For good and for happiness- may all be well!" and led her into the presence of the Prophet. He stood their smiling and combed her hair and decked her with ornaments. Unlike his other marriages, at this there was no wedding feast… then they all went their ways, and the bridegroom and the bride were left together.

For the last three years scarcely a day had passed by without one or more of ‘A’ishah’s friends coming to play with her in the courtyard adjoining her father’s house. Her removal to the Prophet’s house changed nothing in this respect. Friends now came every day to visit her in her own apartment – new friends made since her arrival in Medina and also some of the old ones whose parents, like hers, had emigrated. "I would be playing with my dolls," she said, "with the girls who were my friends, and the Prophet would come in and they would steal out of the house and he would go out after them and bring them back, for he was pleased for my sake to have them there." Sometimes he would say "Stay where ye are" before they had time to move. He would also join in their games sometimes, FOR HE LOVED CHILDREN [Sam- meaning Aisha was only a child like them] and had often played with his own daughters. The dolls of puppets had many different roles. "One day," said ‘A’ishah, "the Prophet came in when I was playing with the dolls and he said: ‘O ‘A’ishah, whatever game is this?’ I said: ‘It is Solomon’s horses,’ and he laughed." But sometimes as he came in he would simply screen himself with his cloak so as not to disturb them. (Ibid., pp. 132-134)

SAIF-UR-RAHMAN AL-MUBARAKPURI

3. 'Aishah bint Abu Bakr: He married her in the eleventh year of Prophethood, a year after his marriage to Sawdah, and two years and five months before Al-Hijra. She was six years old when he married her. However, he did not consummate the marriage with her till Shawwal seven months after Al-Hijra, and that was in Madinah. She was nine then. She was the only virgin he married, and the most beloved creature to him. As a woman she was the most learnèd woman in jurisprudence. (Ar-Raheeq Al-Makhtum (THE SEALED NECTAR) Biography of the Noble Prophet, [Maktaba Dar-us-Salam Publishers & Distributors, First Edition 1995],

I realise this is upsetting but im of the opinion the experience was likely worse for poor wee aisha.

Ghandi also praised hitler. He was not a good judge of character and endorsed anyone he thought would cause trouble for the british- considering he was trying to ignite indian nationalism and rally his countrymen and that the most successful millitary leaders against the british in india before the raj were muslims it is not surprising he would praise mohammed.

It doesnt really matter how many times you give to charity if you are a slave taking warlord who is sleeping with a nine year old you are an awful human. I believe Hitler was also good to animals and protected german workers rights.


Deeper meanings are fairly irrelevent- one can find deep meanings in harry potter or sonic the hedgehog if one looks. The only thing that is relevant is what people actually believe and act on and islam is, in the modern world, causing widespread violence as people try and emulate its barbarian medieval founder.


this is one opinion but 1) it is still horribly oppresaive and backward and 2) a sizeable number of muslim clerics and academics disagree with that assessment and have issued fatwas against their proponents. No other religion is causing that scale of problem in the world today and arguing that those muslims are doing it wrong is to ignoe that they are commiting those actions because that is what to them islam means and if so many people can read the koran and its hadiths and come to that conclusion there is clearly a problem with islam.

The problem being that it glorifies and encourages the actions of a 7th century warlord with 7th century morals.

Did you even view the link I provided above? Clearly you haven't.

 

[Vitriol]

Did you even view the link I provided above? Clearly you haven't.

muslim.org is infamous for its apologencia and very liberal interpretation of islam i note that her age was not disputed until the 1920s. I also note that it states she was 15 ergo still a child.

 

[Sheikh_Speare]

this is much more progressive.

I never claimed to be progressive. I'm not Nintendo Mandela.

and the quote from the koran describing the destruction of Sodom for their sexual deviancy as death? This is in what way an acceptable outcome?

What God does is different from what man is allowed to do. God burns some people forever in hell, but there is a hadith forbidding using fire as a punishment.

 

[Vitriol]

What God does is different from what man is allowed to do. God burns some people forever in hell, but there is a hadith forbidding using fire as a punishment.

but not stoning which is what that passage is often taken as endorsing. Any book which you can read and come away with the impression it is desireable to stone others is not something to base a way of life round and yet thousands of people read the koran and reach that conclusion.