Science Incest Isn’t Taboo in Nature: Study - Avoiding inbreeding appears to be the exception rather than the norm for animals, according to a new meta-analysis of experimental studies.

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Original: https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/incest-isn-t-taboo-in-nature-study-68747
Archive: https://archive.is/9wpEB

Christie Wilcox

May 7, 2021​


Biologists have long believed that it’s adaptive for most species to avoid mate pairings between close kin because of the potential genetic fallout, but a meta-analysis published May 3 in Nature Ecology & Evolution challenges this long-held assumption.

The authors examined nearly 140 experimental studies of inbreeding avoidance conducted on 88 species—everything from fruit flies to humans—and found little evidence that animals on the whole prefer non-relatives.

The inclusion criteria limited the analysis to explicit studies of mate choice, notes Regina Vega-Trejo, an evolutionary biologist at Stockholm University in Sweden and a coauthor of the new paper. Although in the wild, numerous mechanisms can interfere with those choices—such as living in a large, intermingled population where the odds of pairing up with kin are low—the results align with what theoretical models predict: that animals only avoid mating with kin when the costs of inbreeding are high. The finding also bolsters what were previously considered to be unexpected findings of frequent inbreeding or a lack of inbreeding avoidance in some wild populations.

Furthermore, Vega-Trejo and her colleagues found what they consider evidence for publication bias in favor of studies that support kin avoidance, indicating that a distaste for incestuous relationships may be even rarer in animals than their data suggest.

The Scientist spoke with Vega-Trejo about the results.

The Scientist: Why might mating with relatives be an issue for animals?​

Regina Vega-Trejo: If you think about how populations are becoming smaller and more fragmented, the fact that animals choose a related mate might mean that the genetic diversity might be lower. . . . Animals mating with a relative, it might not be bad for themselves, but their offspring might be less fertile, or might have a shorter lifespan, for example.

TS: But it really depends, right?​

RV-T: Yeah . . . it can depend on whether the animals disperse. If one sex, for example, in a certain population stays, and the other one goes away, then they may be less likely to actually encounter related individuals. There’s the range of conditions that can affect who animals decide to mate with.

TS: How did you decide to approach this overall question of whether animals avoid inbreeding?​

RV-T: We knew that there were a lot of studies made on single species, but that didn’t answer, ‘Do animals, overall, avoid inbreeding?’ That’s why we did a meta-analysis. And what that does is that it summarizes a lot of studies so we can actually then answer the bigger question.

TS: And in your data, do they?​

RV-T: What we found is that they don’t differentiate. When making a decision to choose between an unrelated and a related individual, they don’t seem to care.

Of course, we’re looking across a lot of studies. I think what’s important to keep in mind is that, in seventy percent of the studies, they didn’t care. Of course, some did avoid inbreeding, and then some preferred inbreeding. But when you do these studies, what you really focus on is the average, and in seventy percent of our studies, they didn’t care… they basically just want to mate.

TS: You said some seem to prefer inbreeding. Why might that be?​

RV-T: One of the things to keep in mind is that when you make a decision to mate or to reproduce, what you basically want is to pass on your genes. And half of your genetic material will go to your offspring, but the other half of the genetic material will come from your partner. And if you mate with your brother, for example, you’re actually passing on more genes that belong to you [because he has some of the same genes]. So, that might be one of the things that animals—I mean, they don’t think or consider—but that's one of the advantages [of inbreeding].

TS: Where did people fall on this spectrum?​

RV-T: We decided to include humans, but I need to highlight that it’s a very unnatural setting. The only studies we were able to include in our study were those where people have manipulated images. What you do [in these studies is] compare images that look more like yourself, versus those images that are far away from that. So, you have different levels of relatedness. And what we did was compared that setting against animals that use visual signals. What we found was that there, again, was no difference. Humans, as well, fell into that particular category—they didn’t care whether it was related or unrelated.
Of course, we would have loved to have different experiments, but human studies come with their own caveats. There’s a lot of ethical issues. So, of course, there are way more cues that humans use [when choosing a mate]. But it’s a bit more difficult to do those experiments with humans.

TS: In your study, you also mentioned the idea of publication bias. Can you expand on that and how that affected your results?​

RV-T: I think publication bias is a massive issue in science in general. And this is because we have preconceived ideas of what we expect to find. I think if you ask almost everyone: ‘do you think animals should avoid mating with a relative?’ The answer is, ‘yes, of course, most likely.’ And when you start doing experiments, or looking at something new, you always have that in the back of your mind: this is the expectation, and everyone thinks we should find this. It’s a bit hard to take that away from our minds when we’re performing a study.
What we found was that small studies that go against the expectations are a bit more rare to find. What we suggest that probably means is that this lack of inbreeding avoidance is probably even more common. This [publication bias] may be because people either can’t publish their studies, or because they don’t think it’s going to be relevant, or, because it’s harder to publish, they keep it in a drawer. There’s a lot of issues associated with publication bias.

TS: What do you think the overall lesson is from your findings?​

RV-T: I think the overall lesson is that, against our previous expectations, animals don’t really care when they choose a mate. . . . They don’t really care if they’re going to mate with a related individual, or kin, as we call it, versus an unrelated individual.
If you would ask me if this was unexpected or not, I would say yes and no. Yes, because I think as humans, we think of incest, and we think, well, that shouldn’t happen. But a lot of theoretical studies have actually suggested that inbreeding should be way more common [than we think]. . . . And this aligns with those theoretical expectations.

Editor’s note: This interview was edited for brevity.
 
Normalizing attraction to 2D characters.
Who am I kidding, this would reduce degeneracy so it will never actually happen.
We're already getting close, look at all the "WHY AREN'T BUCKY AND SAM HAVING WILD PASSIONATE MAN SEX" articles CatParty posted last week or so.
 
RV-T: One of the things to keep in mind is that when you make a decision to mate or to reproduce, what you basically want is to pass on your genes. And half of your genetic material will go to your offspring, but the other half of the genetic material will come from your partner. And if you mate with your brother, for example, you’re actually passing on more genes that belong to you [because he has some of the same genes]. So, that might be one of the things that animals—I mean, they don’t think or consider—but that's one of the advantages [of inbreeding].
By this argument, asexual cloning is the most advantageous mode of reproduction because you are passing 100% of your genes to every single offspring. Yet virtually all animals and the great majority of plants are sexual, most of them don't even have the option to reproduce asexually.
 
this would reduce degeneracy so it will never actually happen

Clown World really is Sodom and Gomorrah 2: Electric Boogaloo.

I hear the reason the insanity seems to be accelerating is because the corrupt elite want to break down society so the world can be rebuilt as a cybernetic hive of miserable serfs - the New World Order.
 
When you remove the mechanisms used to avoid incest, animals participate in incest? What a shock. It's like saying that people would be willing to have sex with a cousin they never met and didn't know they were related to.

This experiment is like the 21st century equivalent of when they stuck vaguely related animals together to try to make hybrids.

Can anyone actually give me a reason why incest between two consenting adults without procreation besides "it's gross?" That's the same logic that's used to justify homophobia
Because it's inherently too loaded of a power dynamic. The blood isn't the only problem, it's also the dynamics around the relationship that are. If you fuck your boss, like your direct supervisor, aren't there problems with breaking it off? Now imagine that within your own family.

But i'm going to demonstrate it with some example. Which of each pair of relationships is less of a problem? (Assume complete infertility for all couples.)

A pair of first cousins vs adopted siblings, born on different continents, but raised together since infancy.
Two half siblings, one from a man's first marriage, the other from his second marriage, after his wife died or two people in a small town who later find out that they were both "fathered" by the same sperm donor.
Two first cousins or a couple going to genetic counseling and it revealed that the husband's uncle was a sperm donor and therefore the wife's biological father.

Except for the adopted siblings, the cases are comparing genetically equivalent situations, but I'd wager you don't have the same response to both halves of the same case. I was also rather kind in keeping it to normal ages, but let's try something a bit more twisted.

A father and daughter or a man who is with a woman only to later discover her father was his identical twin via sperm donation.

Are those two relationships at all equivalent? They are genetically.

But it's not about genetics if there are no children. It's an aversion to a really unhealthy relationship.
 
Ask the Jews and how Jewish couples are encouraged to get screened for the genetic markers that signify Tay-Sachs before they have kids. Ask the Hapsburgs. Ask a lot of the Middle East. Like, holy fucking shit. I can't believe this rag has the audacity to call itself The Scientist while doing the most headass attempt I've ever seen at being scientific. Applying a distinctly human concept like "taboo morality" to animals. Ignoring documented evidence of animals in the wild preferring to mate outside of their immediate family. What the actual fuck is this shit.

You're missing the point completely. This has absolutely nothing to do with legitimizing the concept of incest as a means to propagate the species. It's the exact opposite. With free and easy access to contraception, vile degenerates see no ethical reason why they shouldn't be able to fuck whoever they like, whenever they like, and elites very much agree with the idea of tearing down family values and removing the last of society's most ingrained taboos. This is about pleasure, not reproduction.
 
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>Topic: Incest
>Replies: 69

lulz
 
Incest is a taboo in human culture for a lot of reasons, not just because of any genetic issues. Most genetic illnesses aren't going to become apparent in the first generation of close incest (Mother/Son, Father/Daughter, Brother/Sister, etc.); we could screen for them and deal with them on a case by case basis.

Incest shouldn't be practiced because it's fucking disgusting. It's a symptom of the sheer spiritual deadness of our culture that the idea of fucking your sister is discussed about in terms of the physical viability and Fst's rather than in terms of 'Don't do that, you sick fucking degenerate'. There's no core to our morality anymore, it's this muddled mess of whatever happens to float the boat of popsci journo filth on any given day of the week. Fucking disgusting.
 
My friend's aunt was an irresponsible cat owner. Had two cats that were brother sister and refused to fix them. They both fucked and got pregnant. She had a litter of 4 kittens and the dog ate most. One surviving was given to a neighbor. Cat got knocked up again and this time had 3 kittens, one was stillborn. One kitten given away. Another a female was kept. Mother ran away from the house never to be seen again. Adult male fucked his daughter/niece immediately as soon as she had her first heat. Not surprisingly, no kittens survived and they were hideously deformed.
 
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The fuck are the teaching at the University of Hawaii? At any point in the interview she should have been able to say "this sounds like you want to fuck your brother and/or dad and has no scientific merit". Absolutely no mention of what animals were in the "70% of studies" where the critters didn't care what they were banging either. The researcher interviewed seemed really disappointed she didn't get to run any human mating experiments too.
RV-T: One of the things to keep in mind is that when you make a decision to mate or to reproduce, what you basically want is to pass on your genes. And half of your genetic material will go to your offspring, but the other half of the genetic material will come from your partner. And if you mate with your brother, for example, you’re actually passing on more genes that belong to you [because he has some of the same genes]. So, that might be one of the things that animals—I mean, they don’t think or consider—but that's one of the advantages [of inbreeding].
Take this snippet, holy fuck lady you practically just admitted you want to fuck your brother in a roundabout way. Anyone who has studied biology in middle school knows this is not how shit works in nature.
 
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The fuck are the teaching at the University of Hawaii? At any point in the interview she should have been able to say "this sounds like you want to fuck your brother and/or dad and has no scientific merit". Absolutely no mention of what animals were in the "70% of studies" where the critters didn't care what they were banging either. The researcher interviewed seemed really disappointed she didn't get to run any human mating experiments too.

Take this snippet, holy fuck lady you practically just admitted you want to fuck your brother in a roundabout way. Anyone who has studied biology in middle school knows this is not how shit works in nature.
This is fucking mindblowing, because she should have a way better understanding of genetics, zoology and such than is reflected in this article if she got a fucking DOCTORATE. There is crap in this article that even a freshman would know is utterly pants-on-head stupid.
 
I'm fucking WRACKED with questions right now, like why at no point does she try to refute a single bit of this other idiot's bullshit (which, with a doctorate and a history in studying genetics in animals, she should damn well be able to do effortlessly at multiple points).

The things the interviewee is saying are THAT stupid that they need to be shot the hell down on the spot.
 
I'm fucking WRACKED with questions right now, like why at no point does she try to refute a single bit of this other idiot's bullshit (which, with a doctorate and a history in studying genetics in animals, she should damn well be able to do effortlessly at multiple points).

The things the interviewee is saying are THAT stupid that they need to be shot the hell down on the spot.
My best guess, her Whitney Wisconsin lookin ass is down for a family reunion and the researcher she's interviewing is probably a friend that is also down for a little onii~chaaaan action. Easiest way to get their kinks mainstream like every other group before them, say that "science" says its totally okay and good and natural, and don't listen to your instincts or anything that could possibly refute the narrative.

Of course I could just be reading way too deep into it and they're just dumb and publishing bad research for easy clicks.
 
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