I am weev, AMA - Happy birthday to Feline Darkmage!

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Why are you willing to give up your own rights to restrict ideologies you don't like?

To protect my broader rights from erosion by said ideologies.

It's an extension of the same principle as why we have governments anyways. Like my argument about anarchies. Even if one agrees with the position that natural order is superior, it doesn't matter since the first state to come along will roll over that natural order, mercilessly, and subjugate you to their ideology. You get to enjoy your anarchy for only as long as it takes the local warlord's armies to get there.

Thus, you choose to surrender some of your liberties to a state in exchange for that state respecting your other liberties, because if you don't take command of the situation, somebody else will. If you're not dictating to others, they're dictating to you.

In this case, this would be like my preferring to live under a Singaporean one-state system where the government beats the shit out of litterers and Communists so that they don't turn the city into West San Francisco.

Of course, it isn't all that practical for rural districts to be run like city-states (a certain amount of population is needed to make the government viable), so the closest thing I can find to a Singapore is a Switzerland, though they're a little gay by comparison.
 
Isnt that self-defeating because they can just oppress the fuck out of you the minute you deviate from their ideals even if they're really destructive and dumb?

I would actually pick Franco. I mean, if I actually wanted fascism to succeed, which I don't. Seriously, whatever you may think of fascism, he actually won, he managed to come out on the good end of WW II despite being a fascist, and then went on to decades of success.

Why isn't he the huge fascist hero? What did he do wrong?

Seriously, if you wanted to pimp fascism as a way that your country could succeed, literally for generations, who would be a better example?

Personally I'd go with the Roman Emperors or chinese emperors and present your ideals as an updated version. Even Franco's regime died with him so isnt that good.
 
And this is why I completely don't get any admiration Nazis/fascists of the current era have for this dude. You couldn't have a worse figurehead if you actually wanted to promote this kind of ideology. Speaking as a near commie, if I were going to pick a figurehead for fascism specifically because I wanted it to fail, I'd actually pick Hitler. Which come to think of it, may be what actually happened.
It is worth noting that a lot of your broadly right wing types tend to buy into the Suvorov thesis, which states, simply, that there is a serious objective case that Stalin was going to invade west. Hitler pre-empted him and used that advantage to force the war. Furthermore, I don't think Hitler was a particularly exceptional failure, no-one could've fought the 4 largest empires on earth simultaneously and won.

The american far right doesn't really have a good historic figurehead, largely a reactionary movement. The majority of far righters, myself included, tend to observe what we don't like, agree on it, and use that as our shelling point so to speak. Everybody has their favorite dude, and people argue over historical far right figures like their favorite pokemon. I'm a Franco guy myself all things considered.

That being said, there is a sort of hierarchy within the alt right as it were as there are with all movements. The less thoughtful among them/us (I dunno if I would consider myself a part of the 'alt right' but if you'd like to lump me in, go right ahead) tend to like Hitler as everyone who they disagree with dislikes him the most. I have my own thoughts on hitler, but I don't think he is a useful figurehead, but when you suddenly decide you dislike liberalism, the US government, and jews or whatever the guy who represents the most aggressive form of combativeness towards those things looks pretty nice.

Odd as it seems, Holocaust denial is the quickest way to radicalize somebody into supporting a Holocaust.

Think about it. If you're convinced of Holocaust denial, then that means that the Jew made up a massive slander against a good people, used it to destroy their way of life, and now use it as a cudgel with which to oppress you while getting fat off of undeserved reparations. They would deserve for their lies to be made into truth.
Back when I first dipped my toes into denial of the holocaust, it was like that. Then I mellowed out and got tired of being angry at the jews and stopped. It feels better to support constructive stuff, like my church and being anti war than it does to get really angry about shit. If the old testament is to be believed, somebody will get around to invading israel again anyway, so ultimately, wishing genocides on randos doesn't matter and its mean.

Personally I'd go with the Roman Emperors or chinese emperors and present your ideals as an updated version. Even Franco's regime died with him so isnt that good.
If you buy into the idea that Fascism is the attempted rectification of the decaying feudal order with modern mass society (circa post WW1 europe) then yeah that makes sense. Although the far right guys that end up doing that end up in the neoreactionary crowd more than anything.
 
If we could just not be so tolerant of fundamentally intolerant people, I'd be pretty psyched. Just apply the golden rule with a little more zeal, you know?
Prisoners dilemma will always rear its ugly head. The nature of having societies that organize on the basis of violence means that the temptation to use that power maliciously when one has it always remains.
 
Fascism isn't a real ideology or permanent system of government, fascism is what happens when ordinary people feel like they're being screwed around too much by communists and perverts and decide to support a strongman to defend them.

Nobody apart from internet nazi LARPers actually wants fascism, it's an inherently terrible idea that only appeals to normal people with jobs and families when they're staring down the barrel of economic ruin, anarchy, and/or drag queens coming after their kids.

Post-WW1 Germany suffered hyperinflation so bad that a loaf of bread cost a wheelbarrow of money, constant political street violence between Commies and Nationalists, a Soviet takeover of Bavaria, and a permissive atmosphere of sexual degeneracy in the big cities (celebrated in the horrible Liza Minnelli musical 'Cabaret') that scandalized ordinary Krauts. They were humiliated in defeat and subjected to Polish aggression on their Eastern border, while the Soviet Union rapidly built up a huge military that threatened to conquer Europe.

It's not a great surprise that they (narrowly) voted for Hitler over feeble Social Democrats and lunatic Communists, all their options sucked and they couldn't tell the future.

Anyone unironically still supporting Hitler in 2019 should be gassed. Nazism is the most toxic brand in the universe, and trying to convince non-methheads into supporting anything resembling mid-20th century German national socialism is like trying to sell your services as a children's birthday clown when your name is "Fucko McPedo" and you have a moustache made out of rat pubes and human shit.
 
If we could just not be so tolerant of fundamentally intolerant people, I'd be pretty psyched. Just apply the golden rule with a little more zeal, you know?

The problem with that thinking is that it makes you equally intolerant. Not to mention that who gets to say what is and isn't tolerable is up for debate.
 
The problem with that thinking is that it makes you equally intolerant. Not to mention that who gets to say what is and isn't tolerable is up for debate.
You're right, this is very sticky.
It's fundamentally flawed - If you start saying one group or another can't or won't assimilate, what do you base the charge on? Additionally, if you say one group or another will be toxic to the social equilibrium of your country, how do you determine the 'baseline' condition of society, the thing you're trying to protect, in a scenario like this? I'm not sure anyone can.

TIL things like the golden rule just can't translate to law quite so easily. Now that you've got me pondering on it... it's a matter personal ethics, so how do we address that ? Part of me thinks the only viable long term answer is gonna involve a cultural shift, but that sort of thing has to happen on a very wide scale. Which I guess could explain why 'Nationalism' is such a dirty word in some circles lately.
 
You're right, this is very sticky.
It's fundamentally flawed - If you start saying one group or another can't or won't assimilate, what do you base the charge on? Additionally, if you say one group or another will be toxic to the social equilibrium of your country, how do you determine the 'baseline' condition of society, the thing you're trying to protect, in a scenario like this? I'm not sure anyone can.

It should be obvious. Much like how I would find it distasteful if say, someone from the M.E. came to the U.S. only to start demanding that our laws cater to their religion, I would imagine the people in their homeland would find it distasteful if I flew over there and started rallying for women's rights.

"When in Rome, do as the Romans do" has been a proverb for a while for a reason.

TIL things like the golden rule just can't translate to law quite so easily. Now that you've got me pondering on it... it's a matter personal ethics, so how do we address that ? Part of me thinks the only viable long term answer is gonna involve a cultural shift, but that sort of thing has to happen on a very wide scale. Which I guess could explain why 'Nationalism' is such a dirty word in some circles lately.

The golden rule doesn't really work when it comes to groups rather than individuals.
 
Furthermore, I don't think Hitler was a particularly exceptional failure, no-one could've fought the 4 largest empires on earth simultaneously and won.

And that's why you don't do that because it's really fucking dumb.
 
oh shit Weev's been caught!

What am I looking at?

Also:


https://www.newsweek.com/new-york-times-parts-columnist-neo-nazi-friend-806379

https://slate.com/technology/2018/0...t-think-its-fine-to-be-friends-with-weev.html

Why Would a Tech Journalist Be Friends With a Neo-Nazi Troll?
Quinn Norton’s friendship with the notorious Weev helped lose her a job at the New York Times. She wasn’t his only unlikely pal.
By APRIL GLASER

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Quinn Norton.
Photo illustration by Natalie Matthews-Ramo/Slate. Photos by Flickr/Quinn Norton.


The New York Times opinion section announced a new hire Tuesday afternoon: Quinn Norton, a longtime journalist covering (and traveling in) the technology industry and adjacent hacker subculture, would become the editorial board’s lead opinion writer on the “power, culture, and consequences of technology.” Hours later, the job offer was gone.

The sharp turn occurred soon after Norton shared her job news on Twitter, where it didn’t take long for people to surface tweets that, depending on how you interpret the explanations Norton tweeted Tuesday night, were either outright vile or at minimum colossal acts of bad judgment, no matter what online subcultures Norton was navigating when she wrote them. Between 2013 and 2014, she repeatedly used the slurs fag and faggot in public conversations on Twitter. A white woman, she used the N-word in a botched retweet of internet freedom pioneer John Perry Barlow and once jokingly responded to a thread on tone policing with “what’s up my nigga.” Then there was a Medium post from 2013 in which she meditated on and praised the life of John Rabe, a Nazi leader who also helped to save thousands of Chinese people during World War II. She called him her “personal patron saint of moral complexity.”

And then, arguably most shocking of all, there were tweets in which Norton defended her long friendship with one of the most famous neo-Nazis in America, Andrew Auernheimer, known by his internet pseudonym Weev. Among his many lowlights, Weev co-ran the website the Daily Stormer, a hub for neo-Nazis and white supremacists.

In a statement, the New York Times’ opinion editor, James Bennet, said, “Despite our review of Quinn Norton’s work and our conversations with her previous employers, this was new information to us.” On Twitter Tuesday night, Norton wrote, “I’m sorry I can’t do the work I wanted to do with them. I wish there had been a way, but ultimately, they need to feel safe with how the net will react to their opinion writers.” But it shouldn’t have taken a public outcry for the Times to realize that Norton, despite her impressive background covering the tech industry and some of the subcultures in its underbelly, was likely a poor fit for the job.

Lots of us have friends, acquaintances, and relatives with opinions that are controversial yet not so vile we need to eject them from our lives. Outright Nazism is something else. So how could a self-described “queer-activist” with progressive bona fides and an apparent dedication to outing abusive figures in the tech industry be friends with a Nazi? For one thing, as Norton explained, she sometimes tried to speak the language of some of the more outré communities she covered, like Anons and trolls. Friend can mean a lot of different things, and her motives in speaking with Weev may have been admirable, if possibly misguided. But when you look back at the history of the internet freedom community with which she associated, her embrace of Weev fits into an ugly pattern. She was part of a community that supported Weev and his right to free expression, often while failing to denounce his values and everything his white nationalism, sexism, and anti-Semitism stood for. Anyone who thinks seriously about the web—and hires people to cover it—ought to reckon with why.

Some background: In October, Norton reminded her followers that “Weev is a terrible person, & an old friend of mine,” as she wrote in one of the tweets that surfaced Tuesday night. “I’ve been very clear on this. Some of my friend are terrible people, & also my friends.” Weev has said that Jewish children “deserve to die,” encouraged death threats against his targets—often Jewish people and women—and released their addressesand contact information onto the internet, causing them to be so flooded with hate speech and threats of violence that some fled their homes. Yet Norton still found value in the friendship. “Weev doesn’t talk to me much anymore, but we talk about the racism whenever he does,” Norton explained in a tweet Tuesday night. She explained that her “door is open when he, or anyone, wants to talk” and clarified that she would always make their conversations “about the stupidity of racism” when they did get a chance to catch up.

That Norton would keep her door open to a man who harms lives does not make her an outlier within parts of the hacker and digital rights community, which took up arms to defend Weev in 2010 after he worked with a team to expose a hole in AT&T’s security system that allowed the email addresses of about 114,000 iPad owners to be revealed—which he then shared with journalists. For that, Weev was sentenced to three years in jail for identity fraud and accessing a computer without the proper authorization. Despite being known as a particularly terrifying internet troll and anti-Semite, the Electronic Frontier Foundation (where I used to work), celebrated technology law professor Orin Kerr, and others in the internet freedom community came to Weev’s defense, arguing that when a security researcher finds a hole in a company’s system, it doesn’t mean the hacking was malicious and deserving of prosecution. They were right. Outside security researchers should be able to find and disclose vulnerabilities in order to keep everyone else safe without breaking a law.

But the broader hacker community didn’t defend Weev on the merits of this particular case while simultaneously denouncing his hateful views. Instead it lionized him in keeping with its opposition to draconian computer crime laws. Artist Molly Crabapple painted a portrait of Weev. There was a “Free Weev” website; the slogan was printed on T-shirts. The charges were eventually overturned 28 months before the end of Weev’s sentence, and when a journalist accompanied his lawyer to pick Weev up from prison, he reportedly blasted a white power song on the drive home. During and after his imprisonment, Weev and Norton kept in touch.
And during his time in jail, Norton appeared to pick up some trolling tendencies of her own. “Here’s the deal, faggot,” she wrote in a tweet from 2013. “Free speech comes with responsibility. not legal, but human. grown up. you can do this.” Norton defended herself Tuesday night, saying this language was only ever used in the context of her work with Anonymous, where that particular slur is a kind of shibboleth, but still, she was comfortable enough to use the word a lot, and on a public platform.

Norton, like so many champions of internet freedom, is a staunch advocate of free speech. That was certainly the view that allowed so much of the internet freedom and hacker community to overlook Weev’s ardent anti-Semitism when he was on trial for breaking into AT&T’s computers. The thinking is that this is what comes with defending people’s civil liberties: Sometimes you’re going to defend a massive racist. That’s true for both internet activists and the ACLU. It’s also totally possible to defend someone’s right to say awful things and not become their “friend,” however you define the term. But that’s something Quinn didn’t do. And it’s something that many of Weev’s defenders didn’t do, either.

When civil liberties are defended without adjacent calls for social and economic justice, the values that undergird calls for, say, free speech or protection from government search and seizure can collapse. This is why neo-Nazis feel emboldened to hold “free speech” rallies across the country. It is why racist online communities are able to rail against the monopolistic power of companies like Facebook and Google when they get booted off their platforms. Countless activists, engineers, and others have agitated for decades for an open web—but in the process they’ve too often neglected to fight for social and economic justice at the same time. They’ve defended free speech above all else, which encouraged platforms to allow racists and bigots and sexists and anti-Semites to gather there without much issue.

Defending free speech is critically important. But free speech doesn’t exist in a vacuum. It exists in relation to social and economic realities that shape our lives with equal force.

In a way, Norton’s friendship with Weev can be made sense of through the lens of the communities that they both traveled through. They belonged to a group that had the prescient insight that the internet was worth fighting for. Those fights were often railing against the threat of censorship, in defense of personal privacy, and thus in defense of hackers who found security holes, and the ability to use the internet as freely as possible, without government meddling. It’s a train of thought that preserved free speech but didn’t simultaneously work as hard to defend communities that were ostracized on the internet because so much of that speech was harmful. Norton’s reporting has been valuable; her contribution to the #MeToo moment in the tech industry was, too. But what’s really needed to make sense of technology at our current juncture probably isn’t someone so committed to one of the lines of thought that helped get us here. Let’s hope the New York Times’ next pick for the job Norton would have had exerts some fresher thinking.

-

If you're gonna have nazi troll bedfellows, maybe lose the nazi youth/der fuhrer haircut? Honestly, I think that might have been the straw the broke the camels back. :lol:
 
Why Would a Tech Journalist Be Friends With a Neo-Nazi Troll?

Because weev was somebody who was unfairly cracked down on? Like yeah fuck all his opinions on race but he was harmed by people infringing on digital rights. He is a comrade shitposter in this regard.
 
Nobody apart from internet nazi LARPers actually wants fascism, it's an inherently terrible idea that only appeals to normal people with jobs and families when they're staring down the barrel of economic ruin, anarchy, and/or drag queens coming after their kids.

I think that perfectly sums up far right recruitment strategy in current year. The left has become the primary recruiter ever since they decided to shit all over Le-Evil-White-Male. I think Nazism is in its core just some burn-it-all-the-fuck-down reaction. Even more so than communism.

Btw. it's become very quiet around weev. No videos, no podcasts, no articles. I hope you're doing well in your russian town or wherever you are these days.
 
don't necro dead threads to jewsperg you fucking retard
Why do people claim Hitler dindu nuffin wrong when he failed to do the Holocaust he totally should have done but which didn't actually happen?

Apparently Hitler did the Holocaust but nobody thought it was worth mentioning for about for 26 years. That's how totally real it was.

MgXsLa.png
 
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The term Holocaust did not come into popular use until the late 60s. You are literally a retard.
 
The term Holocaust did not come into popular use until the late 60s. You are literally an exceptional individual.

Oh okay... So what we now refer to as "the Holocaust" totally happened, it just took a few decades for the Jews (who totally don't control the media) to popularize a catchy term for it. Understood.
 
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