Science How long can humans survive? - This time of plenty won't last for ever

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How long can humans survive?​

This time of plenty won't last for ever​

BY TOM CHIVERS

January 17, 2022

In the deep ocean, occasionally, a whale carcass falls to the bottom of the sea. Most of the time, in the state of nature, creatures have just about enough to survive. But the first creatures to find the whale have more food than they could ever eat. These scavengers live lives of extraordinary plenty — some of the smaller, faster-breeding species might do so for several generations. There is enough to go around a thousand times over. For a while.

And then the whale is gone, and the creatures go back to their lives of crushing pressure, constant darkness, and an eternal knife-edge struggle for survival. As Thomas Malthus had it in his bleak vision: organisms, which increase exponentially in number, will rapidly outgrow their resources, which can only grow arithmetically. So of course, the excess population which has grown up on this brief glut must die off

We are currently living in a time of whalefall, suggests the scientist Vaclav Smil in his new book, How the World Really Works. He doesn’t use the word, of course: credit for the macabre whale metaphor must go to Scott Alexander. But modern humans are animals, products of evolution like any other, and yet we noticeably do not spend every minute of every day struggling to get the material required to survive. Instead, we build cathedrals and watch football, we make art, we waste time on Twitter. And that is because we live on the gigantic, blessed whale carcass that is our fossil fuel inheritance.

For Smil, our discussions about climate and energy are hamstrung, because so few people actually understand how the world really works. Material lands in front of us in pre-packaged, convenient forms — shrink-wrapped pork chops, winter strawberries, lights that turn on when you flick a switch, phones made of plastic and metal. The world is a set of black boxes that we use but, in most cases, do not understand. So when we say “we need to cut back our carbon emissions”, most of us don’t really grasp the implications of doing so.

But somehow, all these incomprehensible processes are keeping us alive, and we should find it astonishing that they are able to do so. The demand for material – for energy and nutrients – is greater than it has ever been. The world’s population has exploded: in 1800, there were about 1 billion humans. In 1950, there were 2.5 billion. Now there are 7.7 billion. In my parents’ lifetime, the number of humans alive has trebled. But amazingly, the amount of material available to each of them has increased even more, and that is in large part because of our use of fossil fuels.

In 1800, almost all the energy used globally was in the form of human and animal muscles, for mechanical work, or plant matter, burned for heat and light. Coal, the first widely used fossil fuel, was just starting to be used in steam engines in the UK, but it was negligible overall. By 1900, fossil fuels were the source for half our energy. By 2000, they were the source of 87%.

And as a result, our lives have been transformed. The amount of energy available to the world has increased 1,500-fold. That is only part of the story, though: increased energy efficiency means that the gain in useful energy is more like 3,500 times. And even though the world’s population has gone up many times, “an average inhabitant of the Earth nowadays has at their disposal nearly 700 times more useful energy than their ancestors had at the beginning of the 19th century”.

But most of us don’t realise how that energy is actually used. A large percentage, for instance, is used to create four materials which are the building blocks of modern society – materials which are so ubiquitous that we barely notice them, even as we depend on them.

Smil identifies these four basic pillars of human civilisation as steel, cement, plastic and ammonia. Producing them takes enormous amounts of fossil fuels. It takes, for instance, 25 gigajoules of energy to produce one ton of steel, roughly twice the amount of energy used by the average UK household per year. In 2019, the world used 1.8 billion tons of steel; its production is responsible for about 8% of the world’s total carbon emissions. But we can’t do without it: the frameworks of our cities are built of it; the pipes we send our water and gas through, too. Our cars, our transporter ships, our knives and cooking pots. Our machines for making all these things. Cement and plastic are similarly vital, and are responsible for comparable amounts of our total carbon output. We can’t do without them, and there’s no easy carbon-free alternative way of making them.

And then there’s ammonia, which rarely features in any conversation about cutting carbon emissions. Ammonia is a nitrogen atom ringed by four hydrogen atoms. Our atmosphere is 80% nitrogen by mass, but plants – which need it for growth – can’t easily take it out of the air. Instead they need to gather it from the soil. Bacteria that live in the roots of some plants can “fix” it into the soil; animal wastes like manure have relatively high nitrogen content. But those methods can only support a certain amount of growth.

In the beginning of the 20th century, a German chemist called Fritz Haber invented a process for getting nitrogen out of the air by making ammonia. It requires huge amounts of energy, and hydrogen, usually taken from natural gas. We now spread hundreds of millions of tons of ammonia on our fields — about 50% of the total nitrogen going into food production comes from it. Smil quotes an author, writing in 1971: “industrial man no longer eats potatoes made from solar energy; now he eats potatoes partly made of oil.”

This means the world is able to eat. The share of the global population that is underfed has plummeted, even as the actual population has ballooned – about 65% of people could not get enough to eat in 1950, compared to about 9% in 2019. So, “in 1950 the world was able to supply adequate food to about 890 million people,” as Smil puts it: “but by 2019 that had risen to just over 7 billion”. That is not entirely down to ammonia, but ammonia is a large part of the story. If fertiliser were removed, perhaps half the world’s population would starve.

Agriculture, then, depends on the whalefall: the glut of energy provided by fossil fuels. Our deep reliance on fossil fuels, to create materials most of us don’t appreciate we need, is unnerving. Especially when Smil points out that much of the world — notably, sub-Saharan Africa — lives on well below average levels of energy use. Africa uses just 5% of the world’s total ammonia supplies, despite having almost 25% of the population. About 40% of the world — 3.1 billion people — has a per capita energy supply “no higher than the rate achieved in both Germany and France in 1860”. “In order to approach the threshold of a dignified standard of living,” writes Smil, “those 3.1 billion people will need at least to double — but preferably triple — their per capita energy use.”

Can we do that while also reducing our carbon emissions? Not fast, says Smil. For all the boasts and pledges — all the “government targets for years ending in zero or five”, about which Smil is very sniffy — the world relies too heavily on fossil fuels, for too many things, to rapidly stop using them. Even the International Energy Association’s optimistic “Sustainable Development Scenario” projects that the share of fossil fuels in the world’s energy mix will only drop to 56% in 2040

We can, and need to, replace fossil-fuel energy sources with renewable ones. But there are obstacles, beyond simply the political will. Renewable energy is very good at making electricity. But electrical energy isn’t ideal for making the incredible heat needed for iron and steel production, or cement. The Haber process for making ammonia works much more efficiently with natural gas as the source of hydrogen and energy than it does with water and electricity.

And away from the four pillars, fossil fuels have other huge advantages. It’s very energy-dense: you can store much more energy in a kilogram of kerosene than you can in a kilogram of battery, meaning that transatlantic flights are possible. And it keeps — currently, there is no suitable way of storing electrical energy for more than a few hours or days, so solar energy stored up in summer is no use in winter. A barrel of oil will last indefinitely. Those facts will change, and Smil is more downbeat than I am about how quickly that will happen, but we are definitely going to be relying on fossil fuels for some decades yet.

But unlike the crabs and hagfish that eat the fallen whale, we are clever, and we needn’t simply slink back into the darkness and starve. Smil thinks there are major gains in efficiency which can be had, over and above the enormous gains so far. He points to water use as an example: in 2015, the US only used about 4% more water than it did in 1965, but in the meantime, its population had gone up by two thirds actual per capita water use has dropped by 40%, even while the country has got richer and better fed. Perhaps similar efficiencies can be found with energy and carbon.

Besides, we are not about to run out of whale, at least not imminently: the raw materials — metals, fuels — that our lifestyle needs are still around in large amounts. But we have grown in numbers and lifestyle well beyond the capacity of the pre-whalefall world. And we don’t want to go back to the lifestyle we had before, even if some romantics and millenarians might disagree. In fact, we want many more people to enjoy the spoils of whalefall. We have used fossil fuels to construct an astonishing world, one that feeds and houses an incredible number of people.

We need to wean ourselves off fossil fuels, and the sooner the better. But it will be a long and difficult job — as Smil demonstrates, they are threaded through our society at every level, entwined like knotweed in the systems that provide our food, our housing, our machinery, our transport. We forget how complex our society is until it stops working in some way — as when supply chains broke down in the pandemic and our hospitals ran out of rubber gloves (an issue Smil talks about in a section on globalisation). As it stands, if we were to reduce fossil fuel consumption by the sort of degrees that some demand, it would lead to disaster, because we haven’t unpicked the threads yet.
 
Read my post again. I am not urging anything. I'm just stating that the general male population's fertility rate is decreasing and will eventually hit zero and that's how the human race will end.
Doubt it.

If infertility is caused by pollution of industrial society then eventually, through declining birth rates, the population will dip to the point that the factories can't be manned, the consumer market can't be kept afloat, infrastructure can't be maintained, industries will shut down, the pollution subsides, and population rebounds.

It won't be a clean and organized regression to agrarianism, it'll be a long chaotic and body strewn affair. As will the rebuilding.

Nations will fall, borders will change, cultures will go extinct or be subsumed into others, etc etc etc.

Many individual humans won't survive it.

But humanity in the general will survive such a natural self-correction.

The infinite decline to permanent infertility model is as flawed as the infinite growth ones because it assumes nothing changes or can change the forces causing the growth/ decline as the values get abnormally high or low.
 
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Instead of targeting little people about carbon emissions, target the big companies that are producing an absolute fuckton of them.

Also? We will probably last until whatever chaos comes from the next big solar flare fucking up half the globe.

I mean we could probably survive even that if we doled out the cash to shield our critical infrastructure from EMP fuckery... but no one is gonna do that because everyone is retarded.
 
We are currently living in a time of whalefall, suggests the scientist Vaclav Smil in his new book, How the World Really Works. He doesn’t use the word, of course: credit for the macabre whale metaphor must go to Scott Alexander. But modern humans are animals, products of evolution like any other, and yet we noticeably do not spend every minute of every day struggling to get the material required to survive. Instead, we build cathedrals and watch football, we make art, we waste time on Twitter. And that is because we live on the gigantic, blessed whale carcass that is our fossil fuel inheritance.
Kind of dumb, really. Our whale carcass is continually enriched by a blazing sun, turning photons into potential whales.

Only stupid, lazy organisms just wait for deadfall.
 
It’s gonna happen. The bottleneck is coming and only a little bit of life gets through. We literally see that this has happened before. We don’t understand enough about the emergent nature of biology; it’s impossible to see into the future. Maybe life finds a way to fix this, by whatever means, but I doubt it. Plants have been stuck with rubisco for billions of years just because evolution isn’t something that “looks” for solutions.
Shits gonna die. A lotta life won’t make it. There’s 36 million people living in the deserts of Saudi Arabia. What happens when it’s 130 degrees year around there? There’s not enough planes and boats on the planet to move all those people. And then where do they go? The simple answer is that people will just die.

Edit: we don’t live in a contextless void. Just because you don’t think about how the ecology around you keeps you alive doesn’t mean it isn’t there. So far humans have been able to survive because we don’t directly rely on one other species for reproduction or for food. We can reproduce and eat just about anything and that helps us quite a bit. But not every species is like us. Many species require very specific conditions to reproduce or eat, like the insect that needs a specific plant to lay its eggs, or the panda that has to eat only bamboo.
 
Not many people know this, but the fertility crisis is probably what's going to kill us all. Each next generation of men born has deceased sperm counts and motility because of pollution, and eventually all males will be born infertile.
View attachment 2904683
That's literally the shittiest correlation graph I've ever fucking seen. Like, we are talking r = -.1 tier shit.

Even if it correlated further, drawing simple linear relationships like that is also fucking idiotic unless you have actual reason to assume the relationship is a simple function over time.
 
That's literally the shittiest correlation graph I've ever fucking seen. Like, we are talking r = -.1 tier shit.

Even if it correlated further, drawing simple linear relationships like that is also fucking idiotic unless you have actual reason to assume the relationship is a simple function over time.
Isn't it also widely accepted that it corelates far stronger with infant mortality rate?
 
It’s gonna happen. The bottleneck is coming and only a little bit of life gets through. We literally see that this has happened before. We don’t understand enough about the emergent nature of biology; it’s impossible to see into the future. Maybe life finds a way to fix this, by whatever means, but I doubt it. Plants have been stuck with rubisco for billions of years just because evolution isn’t something that “looks” for solutions.
Shits gonna die. A lotta life won’t make it. There’s 36 million people living in the deserts of Saudi Arabia. What happens when it’s 130 degrees year around there? There’s not enough planes and boats on the planet to move all those people. And then where do they go? The simple answer is that people will just die.
The Great Dying was a volcanic even that annihilated 99% of all life on Earth and we bounced back from that shit, & I'm supposed to be scured of muh automobiles.
 
The Great Dying was a volcanic even that annihilated 99% of all life on Earth and we bounced back from that shit, & I'm supposed to be scured of muh automobiles.
It not the muh automobiles. It’s motherfucking carrying capacity. We live in what is basically a sealed jar. There’s only so much to go around.
And lol at your smart ass comment, you said it yourself 99% percent of shit died. 99%. What the fuck do you think that means? Use your brain.
 
Not many people know this, but the fertility crisis is probably what's going to kill us all. Each next generation of men born has deceased sperm counts and motility because of pollution, and eventually all males will be born infertile.
View attachment 2904683
Extrapolating a linear trend through a very short, very noisy, temporally biased sample is retarded, and whoever made this graph should commit die in order to boost the worldwide IQ by 20 points.
 
Extrapolating a linear trend through a very short, very noisy, temporally biased sample is retarded, and whoever made this graph should commit die in order to boost the worldwide IQ by 20 points.
That's literally the shittiest correlation graph I've ever fucking seen. Like, we are talking r = -.1 tier shit.

Even if it correlated further, drawing simple linear relationships like that is also fucking idiotic unless you have actual reason to assume the relationship is a simple function over time.
Yeah, let me use some citations instead. The latest findings reveal that between 1973 and 2011, the concentration of sperm in the ejaculate of men in western countries has fallen by an average of 1.4% a year, leading to an overall drop of just over 52%. This is a meta-analysis of 185 different studies.

Doubt it.

If infertility is caused by pollution of industrial society then eventually the population will dip to the point that the factories can't be manned, pollution subsides, population rebounds.

It won't be a clean and organized regression to agrarianism, it'll be a long chaotic and body strewn affair. As will the rebuilding.

But humanity will survive such a natural self correction.

The infinite decline to permanent infertility model is as flawed as the infinite growth ones.

It assumes nothing changes or can change the forces causing the growth/ decline as the values get abnormally high or low.
Interesting. I never even considered the "self-regulating" aspect of it. That is if even these effects are reversible, which I honestly don't know
 
We will survive just fine. We survive so damn well that humans gotta make up extinction dates for whatever reason.

Just kill off half the population.


1642782502721.png
 
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Yeah, let me use some citations instead. The latest findings reveal that between 1973 and 2011, the concentration of sperm in the ejaculate of men in western countries has fallen by an average of 1.4% a year, leading to an overall drop of just over 52%. This is a meta-analysis of 185 different studies.
1642797372087.png

Only a marginally better fit that the one you provided, and if you read their methodology the group that did this literally banned any method beyond eye-counting in the studies that they used. But even ignoring that, there still isn't some sort of mechanism working here to literally shave down the sperm counts in every person until we wake up in 60 years to be literally sterile.

I wouldn't be surprised if there is some decline in average sperm count in the west, but if there is, it's probably safer to say that it comes from something like obesity or drug abuse, which have risen far more in the past 50 years than a factor like pollution. Just going "PoLLutION Is gOInG tO KiLL us" really doesn't work because if that were the case we'd have already seen India and China become graveyards or a similar effect in Europe historically.
 
As long as things go to shit after I die.

Malthusian blackpill bullshit. Everyone knows that population density plateaus with economic success.
Malthus is bullshit. The errors in the fundamental mathematics of his theory have been pointed out several times.

People like to say "Muh limited resources! Earth is a closed system!" are obviously too retarded to understand that no, Earth is not a closed system. It's only a semi-closed system. We received a constant input of energy, that we can use to do all sorts of things. Humans demonstrating the ability to amplify resources and increase efficiency, time and time again show we don't know what innovations will occur. We also have no idea what the "carrying capacity" of Earth is because it's based on the resources available at any given moment. That is not a fixed number as we find ways to "amplify resources and increase efficiency". So, since we have no idea what innovations will occur, and an inability to know how many people can be supported by Earth, there is no point in getting retarded about it. Once we have reasonable, if not definite answers, we can worry about it, but doing so before then is retarded. One thing to keep in mind, with regard to innovation is finding ways to take that input of energy from outside Earth to do many things, including recycling necessary resources, in exchange for energy. That's the biggest limitation of the "limited resources" theory, it doesn't take energy and recycling into account. If we run short of something, I have no doubt we will find a way to recycle it.
 
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