Hollow Knight - Dark Souls Metroidvania... with bugs!

[Gimmick Account]

Ya, earlier in the thread I thought about making a clip showing how you can hit her like six times around one parry in response to someone saying she doesn't have many openings. But I didn't and if I tried now I would probably shit everywhere and die irl.

But how?

It doesn't matter anymore! You are free now

 

[Newcomer 42]

he kingdom starts collapsing probably due to running out of silk and the Weavers flee to the other kingdoms, and sometime in between this and when Hornet is captured Grandma creates Lace and the Phantom. Dude to Widow still being alive after being captured, she probably doesn't consume the Weavers, but for some reason wants to bring them back to Pharloom.

She wanted Horn to be her heir, whatever that means. Maybe what happens in the normal ending. You can find other carriages that show other Weavers were taken here, then ??? Other than Widow, I forgot about that crone. She was probably spared to be mid-management, a fate worse than death.

Also Weavers are essentially sterile, that's why they tried to create Ava but they fucked up during the process.

Lol nope, they're not. Otherwise they would die off immediately, that's what annoyed the First Sinner: How they weren't immortal god-beings as Silk promisedm but rather uplifted bugs. After they left and spread around, they mated with everyone, and Hornet's mother asked a god for a demigod child. The carriages specify that many of the captured Weavers are "last of their lines" and/or mixed blood. Which is why I made the joke about all of the Weavers being too gay to reproduce ala elves.
Hornet herself mentions mates dying off until she stopped caring about the idea due to her longetivty, but I don't see her the type of settling down with children. Maybe after Silksong, though, but I bet this would involve challenging her would-be partner to a duel.
Grand Mother Silk wanted children, hence why she wanted the Weavers back, and made Phantom and Lace as substitutes, as they're better than nothing. Unfortunately, Lace was too perfect and got stuck in the teenager rebel phase.
Maybe Silk should have looked for a powerful spider-man to help her get children the regular way.
The Pale King was happily married and all it went well until his ex Radiance fucked up everything. Xp

t's pretty standard case of women in power.

You mean Silk being a tyrannical bitch, or the Weavers making things bad for everyone else?

 

[Toji Suzuhara]

She wanted Horn to be her heir, whatever that means. Maybe what happens in the normal ending. You can find other carriages that show other Weavers were taken here, then ??? Other than Widow, I forgot about that crone. She was probably spared to be mid-management, a fate worse than death.

The other Weavers except from the Widow (until she herself gets killed by Hornet) are most likely dead. One of them is mentioned to be old as fuck and the other is said to be mortally wounded.

Maybe Silk should have looked for a powerful spider-man to help her get children the regular way.

Her name is Grand Mother Silk. Probably not that many hag-loving higher beings around in the insect post-apocalypse

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

You mean Silk being a tyrannical bitch, or the Weavers making things bad for everyone else?

Yes. But especially the "try to solve an issue by making things even worse".

Not that I even understand how everything works timeline wise, it's the same issue as Elden Ring where the main events happened absurdly long ago, but people act like it was yesterday.

 

[Newcomer 42]

The other Weavers except from the Widow (until she herself gets killed by Hornet) are most likely dead. One of them is mentioned to be old as fuck and the other is said to be mortally wounded.

That's why I said the Weavers got it bad for some reason everywhere no matter what. Either all Kingdoms had an apocalypse at some point somehow, or the locals lolocausted them.

Her name is Grand Mother Silk. Probably not that many hag-loving higher beings around in the insect post-apocalypse

You would be surprised: The Pale King is a midget married to a giant she-tree, and the Green Prince married a MALE bug, which would be considered highly offensive in most medieval type civilizations (and not so medieval ones). The issue is that Silk herself would likely kill anyone who's not at least a demigod due to being a goddess and enormous, to begin with.

Not that I even understand how everything works timeline wise, it's the same issue as Elden Ring where the main events happened absurdly long ago, but people act like it was yesterday.

By the time HK1 starts, it's implied other civilizations are scavenging the place, so the world can't be a desolate place everywhere. Although it's a bit worrying that Void seems to be everywhere if you dig deep enough. There was that pic in Reddit somewhere about how the world of HK might have very little natural light and the core of the planet being replaced by Void.

 

[Jotch]

Pale fork is a baller

 

[Toji Suzuhara]

That's why I said the Weavers got it bad for some reason everywhere no matter what. Either all Kingdoms had an apocalypse at some point somehow, or the locals lolocausted them.

Makes sense. Widow is said to have been captured in the City of Steel, which either implies that the kingdom that city was a part of fell, since I doubt that a group of violent, crazed haunted bugs could get so deep into a functioning kingdom with proper defenses seeing how small their search parties tend to be, and with such a speed that Widow couldn't flee before they captured her, or she was exiled from said City and lived outside of its walls.

You would be surprised: The Pale King is a midget married to a giant she-tree, and the Green Prince married a MALE bug, which would be considered highly offensive in most medieval type civilizations (and not so medieval ones). The issue is that Silk herself would likely kill anyone who's not at least a demigod due to being a goddess and enormous, to begin with.

Those Pale being niggas be some crazy deviants, bro. Fork guy even fucked a spider.

By the time HK1 starts, it's implied other civilizations are scavenging the place, so the world can't be a desolate place everywhere. Although it's a bit worrying that Void seems to be everywhere if you dig deep enough. There was that pic in Reddit somewhere about how the world of HK might have very little natural light and the core of the planet being replaced by Void.

Well the games mostly take place underground and the surface itself has air pollution levels that'd put China to shame. Other than things like lava or some inexplicably-bright areas like Moss Grotto and Greenpath the HK world is basically in a state of perpetual darkness. And yeah the core is most likely just Void, with the Void Sea being its outer layer.

As far as we know the Void Sea doesn't have a bottom, and Abyss-like areas with ruins / remmanents of the Ancient Civilization can always be found there. It would make sense for that civilization to have crossed the Void Sea to find other areas to expand to, and that being the reason why their influence can be found in places so far away. The only way they could do that without having to travel through impossibly long distances is for their world to be round and them taking advantage of the fact that they are near the center of the world

 

[Newcomer 42]

Makes sense. Widow is said to have been captured in the City of Steel, which either implies that the kingdom that city was a part of fell, since I doubt that a group of violent, crazed haunted bugs could get so deep into a functioning kingdom with proper defenses seeing how small their search parties tend to be, and with such a speed that Widow couldn't flee before they captured her, or she was exiled from said City and lived outside of its walls.

I thought that kingdom was called City of Steel rather than being a separate city within a foreign Kingdom. Either way, it's unlikely that the average scenario is akin to Fallout 3 and beyond, with everyone living around ruins because no one can rebuild anything (or at least sweep the ground).
Hornet was probably outside somewhere when she was caught.

Those Pale being niggas be some crazy deviants, bro. Fork guy even fucked a spider.

Hey, when you're a bug and everyone else is, then all is well. Except for the cannibal types, I suppose. Pale Fork, though, I'm not sure if he enjoyed the adventure, considering Herra was a giant woman known as "The Beast". Fortunately, he has godly stamina and probably shapeshifting. Plus he got away with it! Sadly, his plans failed and he died from regret or something, and none of his still-alive children care about him anymore.

Well the games mostly take place underground and the surface itself has air pollution levels that'd put China to shame. Other than things like lava or some inexplicably-bright areas like Moss Grotto and Greenpath the HK world is basically in a state of perpetual darkness. And yeah the core is most likely just Void, with the Void Sea being its outer layer.

It's not worth the effort, but

Spoiler

you can actually travel to the surface in Silksong. There are the remains of a village here, complete with harmless bug for food, so the outside can be livable, but bugs prefer underground spaces by default.

As far as we know the Void Sea doesn't have a bottom, and Abyss-like areas with ruins / remmanents of the Ancient Civilization can always be found there. It would make sense for that civilization to have crossed the Void Sea to find other areas to expand to, and that being the reason why their influence can be found in places so far away. The only way they could do that without having to travel through impossibly long distances is for their world to be round and them taking advantage of the fact that they are near the center of the world

It's kind of like a Hollow Earth deal but with more edge.

 

[Gimmick Account]

complete with harmless bug for food, so the outside can be livable, but bugs prefer underground spaces by default.

She makes a point that they're mindless so while there's probably buggos everywhere, it seems like maybe they need some outside influence (pale beings, extended/preserved/maintained by masks in some cases maybe, who knows) to be elevated to sapience.

So far we've seen civilisations like that which are bound to their source in underground locations, but there's probably a bunch of upstairs dorks building ziggurats on a sunflower somewhere

 

[Newcomer 42]

She makes a point that they're mindless so while there's probably buggos everywhere, it seems like maybe they need some outside influence (pale beings, extended/preserved/maintained by masks in some cases maybe, who knows) to be elevated to sapience.

Not entirely correct the first point, as that village on the surface points out there were sapient bugs outside of a god's influence (unless they were affected by a third party passing by). There's a short comic for HK1 starring Quirrel too. In that one he comes across a bug from the wastes, he was brutish, slow and had trouble speaking, but he was technically sapient. Gods supercharge evolution for bugs, I suppose.
As for the masks, I'm not sure how the whole deal works, as they're a bit separate from the gods, and yet, even Mom Silk tolerated mask makers. Masks give you identity and a face, but for some bugs is hard to tell if they have a mask or not, or how much of an influence, if any, these masks can have.

Spoiler

The mask Maker from Silksong can speak normally without a mask.
There's also the guy who gives you silk-eaters. If you visit his home in Act 3, you'll see drawings of several masks, and if you use the needle instrument, you'll hear his thoughts discussing on what kind of being he should be, if a gatherer, a hunter, or something else. So masks can change your identity and thought patterns? In Steel Soul mode, the bug is killed and there's an intruder using his mask, and he speaks in a similar way.

I would like the lore about the masks to be elaborated upon whenever possible.

So far we've seen civilisations like that which are bound to their source in underground locations, but there's probably a bunch of upstairs dorks building ziggurats on a sunflower somewhere

Most certainly there's a kingdom of fliers and jumping bugs in a mountain or a forest somewhere.

 

[Moral Decay]

Lol nope, they're not. Otherwise they would die off immediately,

Actually Eva has dialogue stating that it's "near impossible" for Weavers to reproduce. Most people don't see it because the requirements are wonky.

HORNET: How did you come to be sealed here, Eva?

EVA: Lady, you mistake. What seems a cage is as much my shell as the form inside.
I was born within this space. To leave would be my death, an uninspired end, though one I've sometimes wished would come.
I am unique, you see. My mothers shared the curse of their tribe, to conceive a child is a painful, near impossible task.

HORNET: I know the curse well, Eva, for I am also its victim, and spawn of one who managed to overcome its limits. Are you too an attempt to defy that cruel constraint?

EVA: A flawed attempt. A life spun from rune and shell, sustained only by its cage. My thoughts may mimic a Weavers, but my senses are my own.
Over time, that difference brought only distance between us.

So the number of Weaver descendants is just due to how horny persistent the Weavers are.

 

[Gimmick Account]

Not entirely correct the first point, as that village on the surface points out there were sapient bugs outside of a god's influence (unless they were affected by a third party passing by).

Or it was a colony of the kingdom underneath that died out. Clearly these cockroaches didn't build it. My thought with the masks is that pale beings might elevate bugs, but since they basically aren't around anymore it's things like masks or particularly strong/advanced bloodlines that can sustain or spread it.
We know not everyone needs them, and that travel between kingdoms is possible, but clearly it's also possible to devolve back into mindless bugs or fall under the influence of some other power, and that's probably hastened by being out beyond the fringes. Fitting grimdark setting stuff that it'll inevitably happen to everyone still in the undergrounds kingdoms eventually regardless, though.

 

[Newcomer 42]

So the number of Weaver descendants is just due to how horny persistent the Weavers are.

I thought EVA was an attempt at making artificial intelligence of some sort to get back at Silk, I didn't remember that "difficult to conceive" line and it feels odd. It worked for Herra, and the Weavers must had had a generation or two dying off before they realized that they weren't immortal, unlike what Silk promised. Maybe they eat their partners/didn't try hard enough?
As for all kingdoms dying... If the Mushroom dude is meant to be taken seriously, it's an end of an age every time, but not the end of the world. They can't end the trilogy in a bleak note, right?

In before it ends in a bittersweet note after 10+ years of HK between HK1 to HK3.

 

[Moral Decay]

It worked for Herra, and the Weavers must had had a generation or two dying off before they realized that they weren't immortal, unlike what Silk promised. Maybe they eat their partners/didn't try hard enough?

My reading of the Weavers turning on Silk was just that it was all mostly an ego thing. They thought they were literally the children of a god and therefore superior to other bugs, only to find out they're actually just mutated versions of mindless beasts. They fancied themselves lords only to find out they started even lower than their "lessers."

Come to think of it, that would explain why Herrah is called "a common beast" several times in Hollow Knight. Maybe she/the refugee Weavers introduced themselves as such in a fit of despair when they found Hallownest.

I didn't remember that "difficult to conceive" line

I never saw it normally myself. According to the wiki, you get that line when "speaking [to Eva] after resting at a bench after meeting Eva but before speaking to her about crests, and while having at least one Vesticrest." It's such an esoteric set of circumstances that I figure only like <5% of players found it organically.

 

[Newcomer 42]

Come to think of it, that would explain why Herrah is called "a common beast" several times in Hollow Knight. Maybe she/the refugee Weavers introduced themselves as such in a fit of despair when they found Hallownest.

I thought that nick was because of her brutish appearance. As for their integration, they were refugees welcomed and made their territory within Hallownest. They benefitted with Hornet. Alas, the zombie virus killed most of them to exploit that fact, so Herra's gamble didn't really work out, but she couldn't have known that.

I never saw it normally myself. According to the wiki, you get that line when "speaking [to Eva] after resting at a bench after meeting Eva but before speaking to her about crests, and while having at least one Vesticrest." It's such an esoteric set of circumstances that I figure only like <5% of players found it organically.

Gotta love these easy-to-miss statements that explain a lot about the lore (NOT!).

By the way, why was the Gay Green Prince imprisoned? After Verdania died out, I suppose he wandered around until he was taken prisoner, so the guy is probably immortal, unless that place of his is a recent development. Either way, why were the Clockwork Dancers made in his and his lover's image? A commission? They had a soul to power them like all other clockworks, so either their creation required the sacrifice of a third party, or somehow the soul of his lover was put into these two for... Reasons.
Usually, Pharloom simply exterminates anyone opposing them and calls it a day.

 

[Toji Suzuhara]

By the way, why was the Gay Green Prince imprisoned? After Verdania died out, I suppose he wandered around until he was taken prisoner, so the guy is probably immortal, unless that place of his is a recent development.

The Green Prince probably let himself be captured since he's a sad sack who then start acting all pissy when you free him.

Either way, why were the Clockwork Dancers made in his and his lover's image? A commission? They had a soul to power them like all other clockworks, so either their creation required the sacrifice of a third party, or somehow the soul of his lover was put into these two for... Reasons.

Yeah, the Prince's faggot lover's soul was split into two to created the dancers, and they were probably created just to spite the Prince and Verdania as a whole.

Usually, Pharloom simply exterminates anyone opposing them and calls it a day.

Not really, if the slab is anything to go by the worst offenders get imprisoned and chained or sealed in some way

 

[Moral Decay]

By the way, why was the Gay Green Prince imprisoned?

Probably because he's gay.


I guess it's because he was fighting the Citadel? IIRC he was on his way to destroy the Clockwork Dancers. Presumably he fought the Citadel bugs and lost, then he just gave up like the little bitch he is.

I don't know about the timing of it all though. I find the timeline less clear than the first game's. Pharloom simultaneously seems like it's on the verge of collapse, but also like the days when it was truly alive are well in the past. Maybe they went through a series of brief revitalizations every time they captured a Weaver-spawn, only to wither away again as they were used up.

 

[Jotch]

I remember the Twelth Architect mentioning a certain construct being appointed the "most holy of stations" due to skill or something along those lines. This was after you got the cogwork heart, which was probably not the second sentinel due to there being several of them.

 

[Strangolapreti]

I remember the Twelth Architect mentioning a certain construct being appointed the "most holy of stations" due to skill or something along those lines. This was after you got the cogwork heart, which was probably not the second sentinel due to there being several of them.

It's not a single construct but an horder of them being appointed to what the architect described as the "holiest duty", which in reality was just converting bugs by force, this may explain why the sentinel's headpiece is vaguely shaped after the iconic conquistador helmet.

Regardless, there is an unused assed of a sentinel trapped in Shellwood wines.

Looking back at the cut content of the game, there is also different looking version of Seth's memento called the Flea spirit memento, as well as a unique logo named after the Flea spirit for the fleatopia game scoreboard.
I may be wrong, but I feel like Seth eventually replaced these two, the sentinel may have been first planned to be used as an NPC/miniboss for the citadel (as seen by the teaser), then moved to serve as guardian for Nyleth and finally moved back into the citadel, while the flea games had a plan to have a memento tied to it, but its holder was swapped to set after some thinking by the hand of team cherry.

There is a lot more cut content, even stuff surprisingly related to Phantom and the exhaust organ that I can see being re-used for a DLC, that and Sharpe.

 

[Cactuar King]

I guess it's because he was fighting the Citadel? IIRC he was on his way to destroy the Clockwork Dancers. Presumably he fought the Citadel bugs and lost, then he just gave up like the little bitch he is.

Hmmmmmmm, maybe not. If he fought the Citadel and lost, why not throw him in the Slab? Why throw him into a cage in Sinner's Road? Maybe he was gonna end up in Lugoli's stew or something?