Hollow Knight - Dark Souls Metroidvania... with bugs!

[Toji Suzuhara]

Guess I just need to get faster, then. At least the frozen crystal things are an infinite source of soul

Not really, but there is a bench at the green x.
View attachment 7918116

Done. Good to see that all those Path of Pain runs are still worth something.

Also I guess that birbs are a thing now

 

[Hope Eradicated]

Done. Good to see that all those Path of Pain runs are still worth something.
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Also I guess that birbs are a thing now

The Faydown Cloak also makes you immune to cold, although the water in Mount Fay will still damage you.

 

[Toji Suzuhara]

The Faydown Cloak also makes you immune to cold, although the water in Mount Fay will still damage you.

Nice, I already feel that this double jump is more responsive that the one in HK1, so that's good. Also, what's the deal with this mask maker?

Is he related to the one in Deepnest? Both speak in the sammer manner and look rather similar

 

[Hope Eradicated]

Nice, I already feel that this double jump is more responsive that the one in HK1, so that's good. Also, what's the deal with this mask maker?
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Is he related to the one in Deepnest? Both speak in the sammer manner and look rather similar

I don't think he's related to the one in Hallownest, maybe the masks are connected to whatever process/Higher Being fuckery gives bugs sapience?

 

[Balanced Boomer]

I can't remember if this was ever touched on in the first game, but do humans exist in this world? I assume they do or did considering nails and needles are being used as weapons. Maybe it doesn't really matter. Maybe something like that would just get in the way of everything else.

 

[Toji Suzuhara]

I can't remember if this was ever touched on in the first game, but do humans exist in this world? I assume they do or did considering nails and needles are being used as weapons. Maybe it doesn't really matter. Maybe something like that would just get in the way of everything else.

It never gets mentioned and they probably do not since there's no evidence for it. Although an interesting thing that's barely connected to this is that all the creatures in the games must be very small, as bugs can only grow so large due to their anatomy and the way they use to absorb oxygen into their bodies. Bugs that are the size of a human are anatomically impossible in this day an age due to the oxygen concentration being very low compared to the carboniferous (16% now compared to ~40% back then), back when bugs could grow to be several meters in size. Concentration of oxygen in air in the world of Hollow Knight must be similar to IRL (or at least within that ballpark) since a concentration that's much higher than that would basically make it so that even a small spark or fire source could burn the entire world, so the kingdoms in the games are possibly the size of a large terrarium

 

[Balanced Boomer]

It never gets mentioned and they probably do not since there's no evidence for it. Although an interesting thing that's barely connected to this is that all the creatures in the games must be very small, as bugs can only grow so large due to their anatomy and the way they use to absorb oxygen into their bodies. Bugs that are the size of a human are anatomically impossible in this day an age due to the oxygen concentration being very low compared to the carboniferous (16% now compared to ~40% back then), back when bugs could grow to be several meters in size. Concentration of oxygen in air in the world of Hollow Knight must be similar to IRL (or at least within that ballpark) since a concentration that's much higher than that would basically make it so that even a small spark or fire source could burn the entire world, so the kingdoms in the games are possibly the size of a large terrarium

I was also thinking they were probably tiny and not human sized. Assuming the gravity is the same, anything too large would probably collapse upon itself, I'd think. It'd also explain the lack of fall damage.

 

[Hope Eradicated]

I was also thinking they were probably tiny and not human sized. Assuming the gravity is the same, anything too large would probably collapse upon itself, I'd think. It'd also explain the lack of fall damage.

Another thing is that the only glimpses of the surface we've gotten in both games have been desolate wastelands that seem to be in perpetual darkness.

EDIT: The two main possibilities I can think of are:
1. This is a post-humanity Earth ala Pikmin.
2. This is a world where the surface is so inhospitable that larger mammalian creatures never evolved, or a meteor struck the planet and the resulting dust blotted out the sun, screwing up the surface.

 

[Toji Suzuhara]

Another thing is that the only glimpses of the surface we've gotten in both games have been desolate wastelands that seem to be in perpetual darkness.

According to what we know about the Wyrms from the first game basically the entire world is like that bar for an undetermined amount of kingdoms created by the higher beings. Of course there must be small pockets of civilization since characters like Cornifer and Iselda come from outside of any such kingdoms, and the amount of previous scavangers who've attempted to claim Hallownest's riches is not precisely small

 

[Gimmick Account]

Probably don't think about it or you'll run into the question of how there can be magma and then void goo like two feet under the surface everywhere.
But I like to think that since bugs scurry about pretty fast and don't live very long, the entire history of Hallownest and Pharloom has taken place over the span of like three months in the crappy corner of some dude's backyard.

 

[Strangolapreti]

I got to the citadel music, holy moly

What if I told you it gets EVEN BETTER later on?

what's the deal with this mask maker?

Try to hit him with a charged attack.

I mean. Most things in this game only took me one or two tries. It'd be cool to have remixes of sweet guys like First Sinner, Phantom, Seth or Grandmother Silk who are over too fast. Beastfly can stay home, we had that already.

First Sinner is already a remix of widow, can't care any less about Seth but If ind it valid that we need a rematch against Mama Silk, just NOT in the form of a long ass boss rush where you need to fight every other boss in the game to get a chance at her.

 

[Toji Suzuhara]

Nigga wtf

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

It never gets mentioned and they probably do not since there's no evidence for it. Although an interesting thing that's barely connected to this is that all the creatures in the games must be very small, as bugs can only grow so large due to their anatomy and the way they use to absorb oxygen into their bodies. Bugs that are the size of a human are anatomically impossible in this day an age due to the oxygen concentration being very low compared to the carboniferous (16% now compared to ~40% back then), back when bugs could grow to be several meters in size. Concentration of oxygen in air in the world of Hollow Knight must be similar to IRL (or at least within that ballpark) since a concentration that's much higher than that would basically make it so that even a small spark or fire source could burn the entire world, so the kingdoms in the games are possibly the size of a large terrarium

Isn't the issue with exoskeletons about pressure? At a certain size, the pressure of the internal organs keeping things in would be far greater than the outside environment can supply.

 

[Sigg Kyle]

I’m more of the mindset that the games take place in a loosely defined parallel universe or dream dimension that doesn’t follow our physics than anything else, and what we know as ‘bugs’ aren’t actually any kind of normal life-form. Remember, Lace is described as a ‘bug’- woven from silk nonetheless, but still can be mistaken for a bug.
I also think the bugs are around cat sized at the very least with the radiance being possibly human-sized, just because there would be drastically much larger predators around if that wasnt the case.

 

[Gimmick Account]

Isn't the issue with exoskeletons about pressure? At a certain size, the pressure of the internal organs keeping things in would be far greater than the outside environment can supply.

We just have skin on the outside and it holds everything in alright.
The argument is generally that lower partial pressure of oxygen means that insect respiratory systems, of which there are a couple kinds but they're all kind of primitive and shitty compared to ours, don't directly scale up.

Spoiler: spergin

It's fallacious though. Sure, you can't zap a bug with a reverse shrink ray and expect it to live very long, but evolution doesn't work that way. If they were bigger it would necessitate different physiology, yes, but being bigger isn't just about cranking up one slider; you have to develop into it or successfully adapt to a gradual environmental change holistically.
They used to be bigger before that particular environmental change, but they weren't knocked out of that niche just because our ancestors figured out how to breathe and they somehow couldn't ever do so. It's because the position is fucking occupied now, and they're a lot better at being small than all the things that are better at being big--that's been the far more important environmental pressure ever since.

In the game's case, these are bipedal bugs that wear clothes and can talk. I don't think we can guess how they breathe. But they're obviously meant to be tiny since we see things like droplets of fluid almost as big as them holding together under surface tension, so it's kinda moot.
Plus it'd be weird to make a setting where all the characters are bugs and where there's nothing else to compare them to, and just secretly decide they're huge for no reason.

I also think the bugs are around cat sized at the very least with the radiance being possibly human-sized, just because there would be drastically much larger predators around if that wasnt the case.

Would they fit? If the whole game takes place in insect burrows. Based on nothing I have a hunch that the genesis of HK was someone looking at a Metroid map and thinking "hey that kinda looks like an ant farm".

 

[Takayuki Yagami]

I got to act 2 and stumbled onto the Wanderer’s Crest. Does it have any kind of gimmick like Reaper or the upgraded base crest, or is it just a fast attack with shorter range ala. the first game? The base crest is growing on me.

I’ve also had an embarrassing amount of trouble with some of the bosses. Probably has something to do with muscle memory from fighting them with the base spell and buffs in Hollow Knight.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

We just have skin on the outside and it holds everything in alright.
The argument is generally that lower partial pressure of oxygen means that insect respiratory systems, of which there are a couple kinds but they're all kind of primitive and shitty compared to ours, don't directly scale up.

It's more that our skeleton is inside out bodies that reduces a lot of outside pressure, especially due to containing a good chunk of our organs.

In the game's case, these are bipedal bugs that wear clothes and can talk. I don't think we can guess how they breathe. But they're obviously meant to be tiny since we see things like droplets of fluid almost as big as them holding together under surface tension, so it's kinda moot.
Plus it'd be weird to make a setting where all the characters are bugs and where there's nothing else to compare them to, and just secretly decide they're huge for no reason.

I always assumed some Secret of NIMH style fuckery only with Primordial/Eldtrtich beings granting the bugs sapience.

 

[Strangolapreti]

I got to act 2 and stumbled onto the Wanderer’s Crest. Does it have any kind of Gimmick like Reaper or the upraded base crest, or is it just a fast attack with shorter range ala. the first game? The base crest is growing on me.

it has 1 less red slot and 1 additional yellow, other than that its og hk mlveset with quickslash

I’ve also had an embarrassing amount of trouble with some of the bosses. Probably has something to do with muscle memory from fighting them with the base spell and buffs in Hollow Knight.

Most probably, big ant guy is a good example of this, you see him initiate the jump and feel the need to run away when that's exactly what kill you, or the slash that look like he's about to do something overhead when in reality its a big fat horizontal attack.

 

[Gimmick Account]

It's more that our skeleton is inside out bodies that reduces a lot of outside pressure, especially due to containing a good chunk of our organs.

Huh.
Well, we're basically just at atmospheric pressure. Except for your ass sometimes.
The air isn't trying to crush you or anything; you're already as crushed as you're getting.

Like, you know those deep sea fish that look normal but turn into mr saturns in an underpressure environment? That's because they're just fine where they normally live: their soft-ass bodies are in static equilibrium down there, even though it'd be unpleasant for us.

Your rib cage will distribute a load such as a fat bitch sitting on you, but it's not an enclosed vessel so it can't do anything about atmospheric pressure (but it doesn't need to).

Hollow Knight.

 

[Toji Suzuhara]

Finally got to Sands of Karak (basically cheated on the second conchfly fight by spamming tools once it got to its second phase but whatever) and I enetered the castle of the dead coral people

Spoiler: Spoiler

I wonder is this is a reference to the pale fork o nsomething along those lines, Team Cherry is always very deliberate whenever they use the word pale