Hollow Knight - Dark Souls Metroidvania... with bugs!

  • Want to keep track of this thread?
    Accounts can bookmark posts, watch threads for updates, and jump back to where you stopped reading.
    Create account
I believe this will end up being an Elden Ring type situation. I remember when Elden Ring came out and a lot of people were complaining about the game being too hard, the bosses having endless combos, et cetera; because they were familiar with Dark Souls 3 or Bloodborne, which had different combat systems. Once people truly learned the new game mechanics in Elden Ring, most of the complaints stopped, and I suspect it will be the same here: Yes, enemies deal more damage and it feels harder but maybe it's because we're coming from Hollow Knight, which had less of an emphasis on mobility and speed. When we truly understand all of which Hornet is capable of, I think the "it's too hard and unfair!" narrative will stop.
 
Tago Mago said:
I believe this will end up being an Elden Ring type situation. I remember when Elden Ring came out and a lot of people were complaining about the game being too hard, the bosses having endless combos, et cetera; because they were familiar with Dark Souls 3 or Bloodborne, which had different combat systems. Once people truly learned the new game mechanics in Elden Ring, most of the complaints stopped, and I suspect it will be the same here: Yes, enemies deal more damage and it feels harder but maybe it's because we're coming from Hollow Knight, which had less of an emphasis on mobility and speed. When we truly understand all of which Hornet is capable of, I think the "it's too hard and unfair!" narrative will stop.
Click to expand...

My biggest issue was early on in the starting hours. In the first Hollow Knight, once you got your ranged special, you used it to kill those bugs that curl into a ball from a range. Players who noticed that same monster earlier on blocking a path forwards would intuite the next step of progression. Although the progression pathing was somewhat obscure, the map opened up enough with the wall kick and dash that you could generally progress on your own just by wandering around.

In Silksong, your needle throw serves the same purpose for progression, but outside of freeing the bell beast and clearing like one section that requires you to break the threads, it's just your ranged special. There's a lot of taking long paths around areas to open gates as opposed to the path being tailored to your newest movement upgrade. I really like the new running dash and the momentum you keep on jumps, but again, outside of using it to (barely) skip some spike pits you'd otherwise have to bounce over and opening the gate for the Lace fight, it doesn't play into progression the way the movement abilities did in the first game. I don't have the wall kick yet and I'm sure it'll open up the map a lot, but I still expect more running the long way through new areas to open gates.

The combat itself feels harder because enemies are much more aggressive this time around and can do more damage. Even the bell beast was harder than a good chunk of the first game's opening bosses/minibosses. Silksong's difficulty feels very much like an expansion in that it expects you to have some knowledge and experience with the first game.
 
Tago Mago said:
I believe this will end up being an Elden Ring type situation. I remember when Elden Ring came out and a lot of people were complaining about the game being too hard, the bosses having endless combos, et cetera; because they were familiar with Dark Souls 3 or Bloodborne, which had different combat systems. Once people truly learned the new game mechanics in Elden Ring, most of the complaints stopped, and I suspect it will be the same here: Yes, enemies deal more damage and it feels harder but maybe it's because we're coming from Hollow Knight, which had less of an emphasis on mobility and speed. When we truly understand all of which Hornet is capable of, I think the "it's too hard and unfair!" narrative will stop.
Click to expand...
Nah dude, Elden Ring gives you a lot of tools and allows a lot of freedom while Silksong is peak "You play the game how I want you to" design. You can't change combat with pins, because it's hard locked behind crests. You can't set up stats. The Tools are basically useless unless you grind for hours for shards to refill. I still only have the basic two special attacks and 6 masks.

It's just badly made. Regular case of a dev listening to a tiny part of the fanbase that doesn't know what fun is.
 
I don't play these games but all I'm here to offer is that this outcome was inevitable. Even if the game is as good as the original in a vacuum its impossibly high expectations would betray it. People wonder why Valve gave up on Half-Life 3 at the time after they failed to deliver Episode 3 on time.
 
Difficulty of the game has been greatly exaggerated. Starting to realize there's likely a generational gap or something to that effect involved with the complaints.
 
The team cherry devs strike me as normie as it gets.
I genuinely think they want to play both sides when it comes to political stuff, just get the most people liking the game.
But of course as normies do, they go to reddit as the primary source of community feedback, which is largely troons.
The reddit says "the game's too easy!" and it probably goes out from that point.
I wouldn't be surprised if there are some reworks in the next couple years, the lifeblood DLC shook stuff up big time for the original HK.

Though it's clear that the protracted development wasn't more work being done, it was obviously a large period of no work in the middle of it. I respect prioritizing being a father over working on an autism video game.

Still, divorced from the gameplay, the artistry is wonderful.
 
Balanced Boomer said:
Difficulty of the game has been greatly exaggerated. Starting to realize there's likely a generational gap or something to that effect involved with the complaints.
Click to expand...
This ^ most of the time when I'm getting fucked up it's the same as in a souls game where i'm doing shit that I really shouldn't be. I'm stuck on a boss right now specifically because I'm being too agressive and getting hit when i shouldn't be

Jotch said:
I genuinely think they want to play both sides when it comes to political stuff, just get the most people liking the game.
Click to expand...
I mean, they're Australian, so it wouldn't surprise me if they were leftists.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Game has been pretty solid. I never played the first game, and went into this with zero expectations, and have been pleasantly surprised overall. I would still echo a lot of the same criticisms, mostly with runbacks. I feel like the game would flow better with the option to retry bosses immediately - running back just adds tedium.

Also Widow is the first boss I've faced that has felt very "prepare to die xddd" in design, where the second phase is just vomiting shit at you. Maybe I'm just getting old.
 
Balanced Boomer said:
Difficulty of the game has been greatly exaggerated. Starting to realize there's likely a generational gap or something to that effect involved with the complaints.
Click to expand...
It's more frustrating than hard. Give me a hard challenge, but don't waste my time by making me replay 5 minutes for the right to try again.
Give ne quests, but mark them on the map rather than waste my time looking for them in areas I already completed.
 
If I had any complaint so far it'd be earlier today when I stumbled upon the Reaper crest. I suddenly had a new moveset that has it's own medal slots, but I have to be at a bench if I want to switch between it and the default Hunter, I think. I'm mainly curious why they opted for that instead of just switching attack types on the fly. Switched back to Hunter for now. Maybe it'll make sense later.
 
The last thing you should feel in a game like this is tedium. Tedium is not difficulty.

So far it seems like a good game but god damn it needs some tweaks. I had way more fun with HK in the same timeframe.
 
wtfNeedSignUp said:
Nah dude, Elden Ring gives you a lot of tools and allows a lot of freedom while Silksong is peak "You play the game how I want you to" design. You can't change combat with pins, because it's hard locked behind crests. You can't set up stats. The Tools are basically useless unless you grind for hours for shards to refill. I still only have the basic two special attacks and 6 masks.

It's just badly made. Regular case of a dev listening to a tiny part of the fanbase that doesn't know what fun is.
Click to expand...
Skill issue tbh, but I do agree that the whole "ur tools depend on shards" thing sucks because you might get stuck on a hard boss and then you have to farm and keep farming and even then you'll probably lose them all.
 
Tago Mago said:
I believe this will end up being an Elden Ring type situation. I remember when Elden Ring came out and a lot of people were complaining about the game being too hard, the bosses having endless combos, et cetera; because they were familiar with Dark Souls 3 or Bloodborne, which had different combat systems.
Click to expand...
Elden Ring boss and enemy design is objectively overtuned for tryhards. The game heavily relies on the player's ability to minimize interaction with their mechanics (through ashes or dishing out too much damage and stun for the enemy to handle) to remain playable for the majority of its audience.

But I can sort of forgive that because ER has its world open up almost from the beginning and balancing opponents in an open world is naturally difficult. Silksong by comparison railroads you pretty heavily, based on my experience of the first couple of hours.
 
FatR said:
Elden Ring boss and enemy design is objectively overtuned for tryhards. The game heavily relies on the player's ability to minimize interaction with their mechanics (through ashes or dishing out too much damage and stun for the enemy to handle) to remain playable for the majority of its audience.
Click to expand...
Every single boss in Elden Ring attacks with slow, wide swings, most "Try hards" hated it. So i don't know where you're getting this from.
 
Got the wall jump got my first full mask. I’m not sure if I just haven’t figured out how to output dps, but holy shit is this harder than the first one. Does anyone have tips? Do I just need to farm 500 beads to get the OG moveset?
 
Last edited:
gaysexenjoyer said:
The last thing you should feel in a game like this is tedium. Tedium is not difficulty.

So far it seems like a good game but god damn it needs some tweaks. I had way more fun with HK in the same timeframe.
Click to expand...
I haven't played Silksong yet, but I find the first one could use a number of tweaks like more fast travel allowing you to get all charms instead of forcing you to choose between a pair, not draining your essence (not matter how small) when setting a dream gate, not blocking off paths as you progress the game, etc.
 
Balanced Boomer said:
Difficulty of the game has been greatly exaggerated. Starting to realize there's likely a generational gap or something to that effect involved with the complaints.
Click to expand...
I want to point out that a lot of people are getting into this series without (A) playing the first one; and (2) being use to this kind of game. So of course, even if it's hard, a lot of people are going to say dumb shit because they expected the funny bug game to not kick their ass so hard.
Professor Donger said:
View attachment 7881179
Click to expand...
>SEA "le shitpost account" xDDDD
Opinion discarded.

These fags would never make it playing Castlevania IV
 
I guess I have less sympathy for the boss runback complaints because I remember when Metroidvania wasn't a term, fast travel didn't exist and your reward for dying to a boss was getting booted to the title screen and reloading your last save.
 
Some of these enemy gauntlets are fucking retarded, especially the one in the High Halls, it's insanely stupid and not fun right out of the Dark Souls 2 school of combat design. . "Hey what if we made a guantlet where every enemy just spams attacks, then a mini boss where every attack takes up 1/2 of the screen, then more annoying enemies, then two of the previous mini boss at the same time!" WHAT WERE THEY THINKING?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom