Hollow Knight - Dark Souls Metroidvania... with bugs!

[Newcomer 42]

Is there anything else early to replace it with?

Get the protection from magma from the giant bug lady. The shuriken trap that lays in wait I found very useful as you can spam it for some massive damage, as no one has invencible frames. Works well for these fucking Crow ninjas.

This has been a thing with Indies for a while where they will design a character that is clearly a boy, even if a bit feminine, then loudly proclaim it is actually a they/them or utterly ambiguous so they can get diversity brownie points.

Meanwhile, Ori is called a guy in both games, but oddly enough in the wiki it's a they.

grinding based economy, checkpoint starvation...

I found a mod that gives you 1000 pears immediately by pressing F3. Tempting.

as some kind of construct like the ones in the white palace,

I think the Vessels have personality, or at least can develop one. The void guards from the first game have thoughts of their own, if simple ones. The Hollow Knight is surprised and looks at you in that flashback cutscene (and there's cut dialogue showing he can think).
Lastly, I just confirmed that

Spoiler

Hornet is a Vessel of some sort, or Void touched. She obviously has a personality, but has Void within, and there's an easy to miss talk if you refuse drink at that bar that her birth's blessings allow her to live with minimal food. But she can drink just fine.

 

[Jotch]

Tip for fighting the big ant in the second area of act 1:

Spoiler

His whole gambit is trying to intimidate you to make you run away. He is very easy to dodge if you stand your ground close to him, but very hard to dodge if you are far away.
Keep him in the center of the room as much as you can and stand close to him. When he jumps, dash under him, attack from behind, and stay close.
The only time you need to move away from him is when he winds up, where you can jump away and very quickly jump back, or when he pops out of the ground and you can get him for two attacks before he does something.
The jumps are very difficult to dodge if he is jumping a long distance, but very easy to dodge at a short distance.
Again, he is impossible to beat if you are intimidated and run away, he's clearly designed to be beaten if you stand your ground.
If you're like me you'll want to hit and run away, that will screw you over with this guy. You hit him and stay there unless you have to move.
His swing attack is low to the ground, but you should never jump to dodge for anything else.

Also, super cool detail, where there are tiny ants on the ground they will pick up and slowly move any items or debris that land on them.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

I found a mod that gives you 1000 pears immediately by pressing F3. Tempting.

I'm at a point where grinding is relatively straightforward so I probably won't, but the only thing I can think of is doing an hour grind session and hope to get the weapon upgrade for that fucking gauntlet. Though maybe the subweapons will work on the final phase.

 

[Strangolapreti]

hornet is void

There's a dialogue in hollow knight where hornet tells the protagonist that the two are bound but she lack the same void he's made out.
Hornet is referred to as the gendered child because she was the only offspring from the forking that wasn't thrown into the murderhole as the king had to breed Herrah as part of the deal to make her into a dreamer.
If there's additional dialogue later that tells you hornet is special or different, its because she is half wyrm and most probably an higher being, the dark stuff in the cocoons may not be void, since her body too is black, it could be chitin.

The void guards from the first game have thoughts of their own, if simple ones. The Hollow Knight is surprised and looks at you in that flashback cutscene

Vessels and void creatures aren't entirely hollow, otherwise the event of the game wouldn't have happened, the collector seems to have developed some kind of insanity due to spending too much time with the fat guy holding the love key, similar could have happened to the void that consumed vessels, consuming near everything of the host except fragments of personality (hencheforth why the hollow knight failed to contain the plague), meanwhile you can find the mold used to make white palace guards, if you dream nail it, you get the message "SERVE", which implies that it's imprinted in the void constructs.

I'm at a point where grinding is relatively straightforward

Grinding do gets relatively easier by the time you reach the hunter's march.

 

[Professor Donger]

Just got to my first Boss that does a fake out death, fun

 

[Newcomer 42]

There's a dialogue in hollow knight where hornet tells the protagonist that the two are bound but she lack the same void he's made out.

She has Void to some extent, she lacks a mouth like the Vessels and I'm Silksong, if you refuse the drink offered in the Grey level, the one with the fucking Crow ninjas, she mentions she needs little sustenance. The first entry of the hunter diary confirms she eats creatures, so she has to be Void touched to some degree.

If there's additional dialogue later that tells you hornet is special or different, its because she is half wyrm and most probably an higher being, the dark stuff in the cocoons may not be void, since her body too is black, it could be chitin.

She bleeds black though.

Vessels and void creatures aren't entirely hollow, otherwise the event of the game wouldn't have happened, the collector seems to have developed some kind of insanity due to spending too much time with the fat guy holding the love key,

I thought the Collector developed a twisted personality on its own, can't recall.

hencheforth why the hollow knight failed to contain the plague)

The Hollow Knight has cut dialogue showing he can think, he developed a mind on his own.

meanwhile you can find the mold used to make white palace guards, if you dream nail it, you get the message "SERVE", which implies that it's imprinted in the void constructs.

These guards themselves also have a mind if you dream nail them, so the Void twists but Void creatures can grow too.

 

[Professor Donger]

The Hollow Knight has cut dialogue showing he can think, he developed a mind on his own.

most people don't take cut dialogue as canon, since you know, it was cut

 

[Professor Donger]

So once you beat the

Spoiler: Boss

Widow

in the Haunted Bellfry, there's an NPC that will increase your damage for free.

 

[Strangolapreti]

she lacks a mouth like the Vessels

The pale king had no mouth too and he's the father of both.

She bleeds black though.

At 1 hp, silk starts seeping out of her, just like the knight bleeds void when it about to die

I thought the Collector developed a twisted personality on its own, can't recall.

It's vague but if you dream nail the husk at queen's gardens it says "too long spent together we became one", so either something weird happened because void or the collector is actually THE RAPED

The Hollow Knight has cut dialogue showing he can think, he developed a mind on his own.

It was cut dialogue for a reason and regardless, It's unknown if it was because of the pale fork or was flawed from start, but the cutscene in the path of pain was meant to represent that the king may have realized that but kept going regardless.

 

[Hope Eradicated]

So once you beat the

Spoiler: Boss

Widow

in the Haunted Bellfry, there's an NPC that will increase your damage for free.

If you talk to him again he gives you a quest for a second damage increase.

 

[Newcomer 42]

most people don't take cut dialogue as canon, since you know, it was cut

Fair enough, although it's a shame as there's more evidence of Void creatures having personality.

was cut dialogue for a reason and regardless, It's unknown if it was because of the pale fork or was flawed from start, but the cutscene in the path of pain was meant to represent that the king may have realized that but kept going regardless

As seen here. I think that cutscene was to show PK became attached to the Pure Vessel, so that plan of his was doomed to fail. The Hollow Knight also looks at your character in that flashback cutscene and during his boss fight, he's seems to be in pain or trying to kill himself (because of the pain? To free the Radiance? To help you?). Lastly, he helps you in the good ending.
Void stuff is likely going to show up in Silksong. The mind control bit reminds me of the infection of the first game.

 

[Professional Noticer]

Let me summarize the story of the first game since some people are confused about the Knight and Hornet.
Despite being a summary, there's a lot:

• Long ago there was a kingdom of several bugs united under the Pale King. The details don't matter much, but its implied that the Pale King is more than a normal bug, as he came from outside the kingdom and there are several mentions to the Pale Beings - Kinda like an Eldrich God, but in a good way. Everyone was happy under his rule. He was supposedly a good king (he did some shitty things but it was to preserve the kingdom).
• Somehow the Radiance showed up. This was a disease that infected bugs and made them into bug zombies. This is why so many of them have yellow eyes. The Radiance is also the final final hidden boss of Hollow Knight.
• The Pale King discovered that the radiance affected the bugs due to their emotions somehow. The details are a bit vague and up to interpretation.
• The Pale King knows that he can't "kill" the radiance, so he devises a plan. He starts to work on making the "Hollow Knight". The Hollow Knight is a being made from pure void, an energy that is not very well explained. However, if he can make a being from that void without emotions and strong enough to kill the radiance, he might be able to trap the radiance inside it. He would then put him into an eternal sleep with the help of the dreamers, so that the radiance is trapped into his cocoon forever.
• One important part of this plan is the 3 Dreamers. It's not very clear, but they are required I believe to put the Hollow Knight into permanent sleep. This is why you must seek them out in Hollow Knight and wake them up. The Pale King approached the 3 of them, powerful bugs and asked them to do it. 2 of them accept right away, but 1 of them (the Spider Queen) accepts but asks for one condition. She asks only that the Pale King gives her a daughter. The Pale King accepts. This is the origin of Hornet. Hornet is a daughter of the Spider Queen and the Pale King.
• The Pale King creates thousands and thousands of vessels with the help of the Pale Lady (the one that is in the forest). Most of the Hollow Knights are a failure - they either have emotions, are weak, or cannot sustain their form outside of the void underground. Eventually he has a success. BUT it was made apparent from the small cutscene at the end of the white palace that this Hollow Knight was flawed, because he developed love for this Dad when he took care of him - the Pale King. This made it no longer suitable as a Hollow Knight, because when it would absorb the radiance, the radiance could use this love emotion to corrupt him. This is the Final Boss of Hollow Knight - The previous Hollow Knight that is unable to contain the radiance. This is why he even helps you kill himself during his fight - he knows he is corrupted and that the radiance cannot win.
• One vessel however was successful - The one we are playing with the whole game. He had no emotions, and didnt develop feelings for his Dad since he was abandoned in the void underground.
• After the knight kills the previous Hollow Knight, he absorbs the radiance into himself, and that's the end of Hollow Knight 1.

So to summarize:

• The Hollow Knight is just a "thing". He is not a bug. Is he void energy condensed into a vessel. This is why, when he dies, he becomes void - because his vessel (the mask) was broken and he escaped and became formless. He is capable of fulfilling his goal of killing the radiance, but has no desires, emotions, anything. This is why he doesn't talk - It's not because he is a stoic gigachad hero, he just cannot talk at all. He likely only helps other bugs because he feels like they would help them in turn.
• Hornet is a real, but special, bug - Daughter of the Spider Queen and the Pale King. The Spider Queen obviously gave her the spider appearance and skills, however the Pale King is an unexplained being, sorta implied to be an eldrich god (but kind and good) to the bugs. This makes her more special than the average bug, and likely made her very powerful. I'm not sure if the Soul Silk powers come from the king or if its something that silk has in that universe, but the Pale King lineage surely gave her powers. Also, her being a real bug is why she talks in this game - She is a real bug with real desires, goals, etc.

 

[dustnight]

Hollow Knight just hit a new all time peak even after the release of Silksong.

 

[Professor Donger]

The Hollow Knight is just a "thing". He is not a bug.

This is why it's not wrong to call the vessels "Its" when referring to them, because they're all just vessels for the void. It's also not incorrect to call them whatever gender you want to call them, but that's you as the player putting that label on them, when in reality they are all just "it" and are referred to as such in-game. It has nothing to do with gender politics like some people want to make it out to be, and more to do with the actual in-universe lore. It's stated in the universe that they have no gender because they were all hollowed out in the void, which is why the Hollow Knight is called such. The eggs containing the vessels were dropped into the void, and the void essentially killed what would be the children inside and possessed them, which is why they technically don't have a gender, even if we can attribute gender to them if we choose to.

 

[Jotch]

The knight feels like a baby that is actually a horrible demon.

 

[Genghis Hitler]

Holy shit this big ass Moth right after the reaper crest can eat my whole ass.

Just give me 3 masks if you wanna double up on me so bad lmao. Bastard

 

[Professor Donger]

 

[Safir]

So the problem with Silksong is they're "trying something different", and when you're "trying something different" from perfection, the result is ass.

Take the African bug. She's not-Cornifer and she sucks:

• Cornifer HUMS while he WORKS. She STANDS THERE AND SINGS LIKE A RETARD.
• Cornifer is unobtrusive. The African bug is annoying and she's fucking everywhere, even in the village.
• Cornifer's locations are safe. You reach Cornifer, you can take a breather. The African bug stands and sings in dangerous places.
• Cornifer is either useful or neutral. Do you need a map? Congratulations, you're about to get it! Do you not need a map? Just ignore the guy. Everything else is aboveground at Iselda's. With the African bug, you don't know if you need her shit or not, and if you have the money or not.
• The song is dumb. Inb4 "how do you know, it's in bugspeak?": because I passed Linguistics in vocational training. It's one word repeated over and over. Try enduring shit like this -- "Lalalalalalalala yes I know. Lalalalalala yes I know. Lalalalalala do you know? Yes I know. Yes I know. Lalalalalalalala yes I know." -- for several hours straight. It's not a song, it's an autistic tic. And you thought Taylor Swift was bad!

Or take Lace. I met Lace. Lace is a cunt. She's supposed to be not-Hornet (the achievement is "Defeat Lace in Deep Docks"), and the "not" part makes her a cunt. I enjoy the fight (I can do the mantis lords hitless with the basic nail in HK, and Hornet of course, and Crisanta and the flamer, and the other flamer in The Messenger) until she starts with the fucking undodgeable attacks. What a cunt.

---
Having wasted a lot of time on Lace that could've been spent farming beads, I went and farmed beads to buy the key. The key unlocked a new area of pure assrape where everything deals 2 masks. Dunno if the helmet can help with it, probably not, but at least when I run there to get unspooled, I collect some beads on the way so it's not long until I can test it. A fat guy is there. I don't know how to beat him, I get sat on and unspooled. He's not a flamer, he's just fat, so the helmet will probably be no help at all.

I did the jumping challenge, got beads as a reward.

The free knives are weak. it takes like three knives to pop a pimple, so four pimples in a sitting. A Kiwi wrote the shurikens suck, too.

 

[peachlover669]

I just wanna make sure I'm understanding correctly. You don't like running back to fight a boss because it's annoying. The devs apparently put a bench close to said boss fight that you could choose to activate to circumvent the run around, but you're ignoring it because the fight is too easy even though you apparently keep dying and get aggravated that you have to backtrack to the boss fight each time?

yes. any more questions?

 

[Jotch]

the jump upgrade is really funny looking