Hentai is disgusting.

[Perfectly Innocent]

Why?

Clearly labeling meth and crack isn't going to solve the problems inherent to drug use.

It doesn’t solve all of the problems, but it solves many of them, representing a real-world improvement over outright prohibition.

To use a fairly recent example, there is plenty of evidence to show that an appropriate amount of regulation has already helped solve a lot of problems for cannabis users. Both occasional and regular consumers can know what they’re getting, and a bevy of far safer consumables (those which don’t need to be smoked) in various strengths are purchasable from legitimate, vetted vendors. People who may have previously experimented with highly dangerous substances can now experience a mild buzz in social settings with far fewer risks to their physical and mental health.

To say that this wouldn’t be the case for cocaine would be foolish, as it underestimates what drug educators can do with young people, and it also underestimates the industriousness of people who introduce far safer alternatives to satisfy existing users.

Disordered behavior breeds a disordered society, the government has a legitimate reason to be concerned about what people do in their homes.

A society without appropriate tolerances for disordered behaviour becomes a fundamentally dishonest one. A government which becomes too concerned with what consenting adults do in private, is one which will only inspire good acting, not good actors. When the government interferes with people’s private lives, it also generally results in perverse laws which create, rather than reduce harms.

The various porn bans the UK has implemented (for example) has only ever resulted in people seeking out banned content via far less regulated channels.

Instead of PornHub and its well-vetted, legal content, folks who don’t use VPNs will instead go to specialised forums containing a mix of legal and illegal content, the latter being things they never would have been exposed to otherwise. Worse still, the removal of widely-available softcore content from mainstream websites has opened up a commercial pipeline where teenagers will straddle the line with social media content to bootstrap an early follower base for future adult content they intend to produce. Now we have a situation where more people are harmed, especially who likely wouldn’t have otherwise become content producers had the commercial environment been different.

We have to be careful what we wish for, as the road to hell is often paved with good intentions.

 

[cigint]

Like all biological beings, the human is intended to labor and struggle for the temporary satisfaction of its needs and urges. Anything that tastes good or feels good, the human being is only intended to receive in strict moderation. At any time when it becomes easy to overindulge in these things, whether it be pleasure from food, drink, drugs, sexual stimulation, always the degeneration of the body and mind inevitably follow.

Hentai is bad because it is pornography. Pornography will destroy your psyche no differently than twinkies will destroy your body. The damage happens slowly and you don't perceive it because it tastes and feels good. But day by day you are turning into Boogie1488. Maybe you'll wake up and have a sudden revelation one day when you're a malodorous 400 lbs tranny gooner that everybody in your life has started to avoid, and maybe you won't.

 

[Ayana Otonashi]

what can i even add to this conversation at this point

 

[Jason_Cruiser]

Seriously what is up with people admitting what they jerk to in this thread? Just because you're defending hentai doesn't mean you need to reveal your goon stash.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

To use a fairly recent example, there is plenty of evidence to show that an appropriate amount of regulation has already helped solve a lot of problems for cannabis users.

That's not a hard drug, it's bad but still a far cry from the really bad shit.

To say that this wouldn’t be the case for cocaine would be foolish, as it underestimates what drug educators can do with young people, and it also underestimates the industriousness of people who introduce far safer alternatives to satisfy existing users.

What proof is there? Virtually every shitty blue city that's weak on drugs is a druggie hellscape, which often goes in tandem with other crime.

A society without appropriate tolerances for disordered behaviour becomes a fundamentally dishonest one. A government which becomes too concerned with what consenting adults do in private, is one which will only inspire good acting, not good actors. When the government interferes with people’s private lives, it also generally results in perverse laws which create, rather than reduce harms.

There's a balance; privacy is a right, but when that private behavior results in undesirable public behavior you lose your private rights to whatever problematic activities you're engaging in.

The various porn bans the UK has implemented (for example) has only ever resulted in people seeking out banned content via far less regulated channels.

Then the answer is to target the ability to access banned content and punish the pornographers making the material available.

We have to be careful what we wish for, as the road to hell is often paved with good intentions.

Worst case scenario you backtrack like we did with banning booze. It's still worth a try.

what can i even add to this conversation at this point

Nothing more or less.

 

[Sneedmason]

TFW the shitpost thread from a year back about hentai being gross because it's not real has turned into unironic politisperg slapfights

Wait another year and this thread will become a recommendation thread.

 

[Perfectly Innocent]

Worst case scenario you backtrack like we did with banning booze. It's still worth a try.

In the case of banning booze, the result was otherwise law-abiding people unnecessarily dying, in the same way prohibition has killed and will continue users of various currently illicit drugs (as well as those who tried legal highs they wouldn't have otherwise used) while doing actual bugger all about the bevy of additional organised and violent crimes created as a direct cause of prohibition.

But getting back on topic. The last time the world got really shitty over porn of any kind in recent memory resulted in a huge backfire. In the UK, OnlyFans stepped up to fill the void as a legally compliant British porn service which carefully limited what was and was not permitted. It was very profitable too. As a result, people as young as 13 started using it to make money, and it was only really discovered when teenagers started bragging about it and when banks started rejecting the large sums of money going into children's bank accounts.

A new business model got created. Even though OnlyFans tightened up even further, it's making zero difference. Teenagers have already begun to straddle the line on TikTok, Instagram and other social media sites as a way to boost their future OF/Fansly, which will coincidentally (purely coincidentally, right?) just happen to feature NSFW versions of that same old social media content. Worse still, in countries like Australia where porn restrictions are even stricter than in the UK, this now happens with the entirely legal help of their parents, which (as long as they follow specific rules to keep themselves in the legal clear) don't care if they're also blatantly serving paedophiles in the process of selling access to very harmful parasocial relationships with their children.

Backtracking won't help for a very long time.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

In the case of banning booze, the result was otherwise law-abiding people unnecessarily dying, in the same way prohibition has killed and will continue users of various currently illicit drugs (as well as those who tried legal highs they wouldn't have otherwise used) while doing actual bugger all about the bevy of additional organised and violent crimes created as a direct cause of prohibition.

That's because it was done poorly. If they wanted to they could try again with much better results today.

But getting back on topic. The last time the world got really shitty over porn of any kind in recent memory resulted in a huge backfire. In the UK, OnlyFans stepped up to fill the void as a legally compliant British porn service which carefully limited what was and was not permitted. It was very profitable too. As a result, people as young as 13 started using it to make money, and it was only really discovered when teenagers started bragging about it and when banks started rejecting the large sums of money going into children's bank accounts.

This just means you need to ban stuff like OnlyFans too. Also, social media should be illegal for minors to use (not just for this reason either). Problem solved.

A new business model got created. Even though OnlyFans tightened up even further, it's making zero difference. Teenagers have already begun to straddle the line on TikTok, Instagram and other social media sites as a way to boost their future OF/Fansly, which will coincidentally (purely coincidentally, right?) just happen to feature NSFW versions of that same old social media content. Worse still, in countries like Australia where porn restrictions are even stricter than in the UK, this now happens with the entirely legal help of their parents, which (as long as they follow specific rules to keep themselves in the legal clear) don't care if they're also blatantly serving paedophiles in the process of selling access to very harmful parasocial relationships with their children.

I haven't seen any of that content, but like I said above, just do social media bans. However, if that's not possible for whatever reason, then if the legal content you're describing is actually inappropriate at least ban that stuff, that should be easier.

Really, the answer is always to just clamp down harder on whatever undesirable products, services, and behaviors deemed problematic. It's also not as if this stuff wouldn't happen if not for porn band or whatever. The reality is there's interest in minors and so bad people will monetize that if allowed, it's not as if that issue only cropped up in response to a ban, you can look at Japan to see that fact.

Backtracking won't help for a very long time.

Why not? And that's only if need be, which I don't think would be necessary.

 

[Perfectly Innocent]

social media should be illegal for minors to use (not just for this reason either). Problem solved.

100% agree with this. At worst, minors should be forced to pretend to be adults (and never give their real details to anything) which is what everyone used to be taught to do by their parents when using online services anyway. And if adults start acting like children, they should be banned too.

If they wanted to they could try again with much better results today.

It would flop even worse today than it did back then because the Internet makes information widely available. Every ingredient and tool needed to make homemade alcoholic beverages is all very legal to purchase standalone, no need to sell risky "kits" which tell people "what not to do" with them.

At best, you'd maybe be able to stop people consuming spirits by alerting the more responsible members of the public about the dangers of methanol, but the overwhelming majority would just be producing booze using spare fruit, honey and yeast (assuming they didn't want to brew beer) anyway, as it's comparatively quite safe (and why people have legally been allowed to make it at home for a long time).

This just means you need to ban stuff like OnlyFans too.

Which would push people towards the same completely unregulated, decentralised P2P services where people used to get their porn for free, complete with downloadable indexes of magnet links, which are also freely shared over P2P itself (and have been for over a decade). Enforcement then becomes even less possible than before, and more people will be exposed to extreme content since they'll have huge, unfiltered lists of content to bulk download in advance of their next session.

In the event that law enforcement got too heavy handed, you'd see everyone (not just the more tech savvy) downloading illegal content within legal content (steganography) in a manner designed to not only create plausible deniability, but in a manner designed to have innocent people unwittingly share said content far and wide without realising it, such that it becomes impossible to effectively enforce the law.

Just for fun, I've provided a simple toy example for people to play with. The typical normie software you'd expect to handle these files will open them as usual without anything seeming too off, and said software will even helpfully preserve the 'contraband' quite well. Chances are, you've probably handled plenty of carefully hidden content in your lifetime without knowing it, especially if you browsed 4chan before it got a lot tamer, as it was common place to use steganography to share programs and other data (including other images) within images, if only for ease of portability.

Spoiler: A small hint for the confused

No matter how hard one doth protest, there shall always be an archive of Lucy Pinder somewhere.

it's not as if that issue only cropped up in response to a ban, you can look at Japan to see that fact.

"If men’s sexual organs and female sexual organs can’t touch, what if a tentacle that looks nothing like a human is used, it doesn’t provoke the legal restrictions." -- Toshio Maeda

The hentai tentacle rape genre people often complain about today actually started out as a means to circumvent Japan's restrictions on portraying much tamer (by comparison) sexual intercourse. Likewise, modern compensated dating, soaplands and many other responses to laws forbidding prostitution all created brand new "commercial opportunities" (for lack of a better term in this instance) making the selling of (whether intended to be legal or not) sexual services even more available than lawmakers had ever intended them to be.

 

[Esope]

>sees drawn naked woman
>gets a boner

WHAT THE FUCK DO I DO AHHHHHHH

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

100% agree with this.

Good to find common ground.

It would flop even worse today than it did back then because the Internet makes information widely available. Every ingredient and tool needed to make homemade alcoholic beverages is all very legal to purchase standalone, no need to sell risky "kits" which tell people "what not to do" with them.

No, because underground booze manufacturing only proliferated so easily because we didn't yet live in a world where your privacy is so much more limited. You could never get away with it these days.

At best, you'd maybe be able to stop people consuming spirits by alerting the more responsible members of the public about the dangers of methanol, but the overwhelming majority would just be producing booze using spare fruit, honey and yeast (assuming they didn't want to brew beer) anyway, as it's comparatively quite safe (and why people have legally been allowed to make it at home for a long time).

The primary goal is not to stop people from consuming it but to limit its spread and ease of attainment. A full ban of anything is impossible, including the subject at hand, porn. I could draw stick figure porn right now, blow a load, and burn the paper in a fire, and there's nobody would ever know it occured, but that doesn't mean we don't shut down PornHub.

Which would push people towards the same completely unregulated, decentralised P2P services where people used to get their porn for free, complete with downloadable indexes of magnet links, which are also freely shared over P2P itself (and have been for over a decade). Enforcement then becomes even less possible than before, and more people will be exposed to extreme content since they'll have huge, unfiltered lists of content to bulk download in advance of their next session.

In the event that law enforcement got too heavy handed, you'd see everyone (not just the more tech savvy) downloading illegal content within legal content (steganography) in a manner designed to not only create plausible deniability, but in a manner designed to have innocent people unwittingly share said content far and wide without realising it, such that it becomes impossible to effectively enforce the law.

Just for fun, I've provided a simple toy example for people to play with. The typical normie software you'd expect to handle these files will open them as usual without anything seeming too off, and said software will even helpfully preserve the 'contraband' quite well. Chances are, you've probably handled plenty of carefully hidden content in your lifetime without knowing it, especially if you browsed 4chan before it got a lot tamer, as it was common place to use steganography to share programs and other data (including other images) within images, if only for ease of portability.

Nobody's gonna jump through all these hoops except the most tech savvy hardcore gooners. The average person would be unable or unwilling to access porn once pornhub.coom is down.

The hentai tentacle rape genre people often complain about today actually started out as a means to circumvent Japan's restrictions on portraying much tamer (by comparison) sexual intercourse. Likewise, modern compensated dating, soaplands and many other responses to laws forbidding prostitution all created brand new "commercial opportunities" (for lack of a better term in this instance) making the selling of (whether intended to be legal or not) sexual services even more available than lawmakers had ever intended them to be.

Again, just ban that stuff too.

>"We can't show dicks? We'll use tentacles!"
>"No you won't, that's banned too."

>sees drawn naked woman
>gets a boner

WHAT THE FUCK DO I DO AHHHHHHH

Ban it.

 

[Smoltine Kiminal]

There's a balance

there is no balance, you either have a right or you dont have a right

but when that private behavior results in undesirable public behavior you lose your private rights

why?
if someone does drugs in private that shouldnt concern you
if he then goes out and punch people on coke or steals from people to finance addiction then stealing and assault are already crimes, no reason to invade what he can do in private

Then the answer is to target the ability to access banned content and punish the pornographers making the material available.

that can only be achieved by wide-ranging government censorship, and they dont even do anything against the pedos they already know about, this is just pretense because more government censorship is the goal
if you want to stop minors from accessing porn its a task for the parents

You could never get away with it these days.

until you realize that the cp trade is done by the intel agencies, that the intel agencies are balls deep in human trafficking and drug cartels, and that all those invasions of privacy serve to destroy competition