He Man Reboot Announced

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I'd suggest that Hollyweird make new franchises... but they'd probably fuck those up too, assuming anybody even watched them.

This shit isn't sustainable. Companies can't make money making identity politics garbage that nobody wants to watch, not unless they're exploiting flaws in the tax code that allow them to profit from making garbage. I'm not even sure that's sustainable either.

What are we going to do after all these beloved franchises have been destroyed? We can't rebuild fan goodwill and investors won't be willing to touch poisoned franchises.

Will Hollyweird just go out of business? What happens then?
 
FreedomMussel said:
I'd suggest that Hollyweird make new franchises... but they'd probably fuck those up too, assuming anybody even watched them.

This shit isn't sustainable. Companies can't make money making identity politics garbage that nobody wants to watch, not unless they're exploiting flaws in the tax code that allow them to profit from making garbage. I'm not even sure that's sustainable either.

What are we going to do after all these beloved franchises have been destroyed? We can't rebuild fan goodwill and investors won't be willing to touch poisoned franchises.

Will Hollyweird just go out of business? What happens then?
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You think any of these Hollywierdos think that far ahead? If fucking Disney can irreversibly damage probably the biggest franchise to come out of America due to their complete incompetence against their own financial interests, you can be sure that no company is thinking about the long-term ramifications of strip-mining nostalgia.
 
I mean, Evil Lyn was better than Teela, but they even fucked her up by making her "hold a torch" for Skeletor, which completely went against her character in previous animated incarnations.

In classic series episode, The Witch and The Warrior, she tells Teela striaght up that she has no loyalty to Skeletor and is only using him for power, and once she gets the opportunity, she'll stab him right in the back. She had more in common with a character like Starscream than she did a lovesick obsessive character like Harley Quinn.

And in the 2002 series, she straight up throws Skeletor to the wolves...or snakes as she helps King Hiss over throw him. She then gets back in his good graces and then secretly plans to betray Skeletor to Hordak (a plot line that unfortunately never gets resolved due to the show's cancellation). She also between Skeletor in season 1 episode "Siren's Song" before the Snake Men and the Horde ever showed up. In episode "The Price of Deceit", a little bit more of Lyn and Skeletor's backstory is highlighted, and its vaguely implied that there was something romantic between then when he was Keldor and its implied that this all died when he was turned into Skeletor and basically driven mad. So there was some minor romantic elements implied, but generally, Evil Lyn was powerful and power hungry, and was maniuplating all involved to get her way, including Skeletor.

So if anyone can tell me where this love sick crap came from with her, I'd love to hear it because that's not the Evil Lyn I knew. Now I buy that she'd work with the good guys to get her power back, and I'd buy that she'd stab them in the back at her first opportunity, but to do it because she loves Skeletor is way off.
 
verissimus said:
Expectations...not subverted

https://boundingintocomics.com/2021...rse-revelation-shifts-into-an-evil-lyn-story/
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“You’re talking about two women who have been in the shadows of very powerful male characters since the inception of the franchise,” Smith continued. “And Teela, you know, fought side-by-side with He-Man definitely [like] more of his equal. Evil-Lyn, though, was always Skeletor’s subservient.”

Every time an IP has an update where a female character gets more prominent, the writers always treat it like the male characters were 'stealing' the female character's spotlight all along. Because female characters always have to have been retroactively held back or underestimated in some way. Just because they weren't the leading characters doesn't mean they were in the shadow of the leading character.
 
TheAmbiguousLurker said:
“You’re talking about two women who have been in the shadows of very powerful male characters since the inception of the franchise,” Smith continued. “And Teela, you know, fought side-by-side with He-Man definitely [like] more of his equal. Evil-Lyn, though, was always Skeletor’s subservient.”

Every time an IP has an update where a female character gets more prominent, the writers always treat it like the male characters were 'stealing' the female character's spotlight all along. Because female characters always have to have been retroactively held back or underestimated in some way. Just because they weren't the leading characters doesn't mean they were in the shadow of the leading character.
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It's stupid regardless. Some stories are just meant to spotlight either a certain male character or a certain female character. That's just the way stories are written.
 
TheAmbiguousLurker said:
Every time an IP has an update where a female character gets more prominent, the writers always treat it like the male characters were 'stealing' the female character's spotlight all along. Because female characters always have to have been retroactively held back or underestimated in some way. Just because they weren't the leading characters doesn't mean they were in the shadow of the leading character.
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Exactly.

And like I said, Evil Lyn was never held back by Skeletor. She was always plotting to over throw him, and the fact that this angle has been dropped in the new show feels like Evil Lyn is being dragged down rather than prepped up.
 
So reading this thread made me go and think of good orginal properties and AVATAR came to mind.

then I looked up this scene

www.youtube.com

Zuko + Katara vs. Azula 🔥FULL Agni Kai | Avatar

In one of the most anticipated battles of the series, Zuko and Azula finally go head to head in the Agni Kai to end all Agni Kai. Now, watch this infamous s...
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com

The hero makes a sacrifice for a girl, who then goes on to best the vilian by being clever and lucky and it fucking works.

Mostly because peoples actions are in line with their characters and there is no fucking dialog about what happens you just see it.
 
Evil Lyn was perhaps the most memorable sidekick of Skeletor, so this "in the shadows" bs is just that: bs. I mean, she is a sidekick after all, an ally, minion, whatever. She's supposed to be less prominent than the actual villain, but she's still the one people remember the most. I think even more than Teela.

This "upgrade" is making me fear for another "Catradora", with all the bad things that would involve. And in context, it's funny that these so-called feminist producers end up reducing female characters to be romantic interests. The only difference is that they aren't romantic interests for men, only for each other. But that's it: they are still reduced to be only that.
 
northstar747 said:
The hero makes a sacrifice for a girl, who then goes on to best the vilian by being clever and lucky and it fucking works.
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That has been my thesis from the start. Yet in the own fandom they will complain that Azula should have won...despite that even Iroh stated if two family member fought, it would be just a power grab (or something Ike that).
But I digress.
Woke or at least Western media now just want women to be facsimile of men and vice versa.
 
Akumaten said:
That has been my thesis from the start. Yet in the own fandom they will complain that Azula should have won...despite that even Iroh stated if two family member fought, it would be just a power grab (or something Ike that).
But I digress.
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The fight was rigged with Katara being present there from the beginning and later her active involvement in it.
 
There's endless critique of the reboot to the point it's become a political talking point from people who don't even like or care for He-Man (which is understandable since Kevin Smith himself didn't even like it, but it's still a fucking drain). I will say Skeletor overall was the best part even with the weird decision to recast his VA to play Moss-Man out of anyone, and the visuals not being insultingly simplified and cheap like most of the shit Cartoon Network pumps out now was great. Everything else, though? Fucking awful. Teela's crippling character flaws don't get challenged or develop into anything, and killing off characters is treated like a good thing in and of itself instead of something you need to write well for it to be good, if that makes sense. Kevin Smith hasn't made anything good since Clerks got a cartoon, but even he's only a symptom of the "updating reboots to better reflect the era" thing being complete shit in current year. It's been ages since I saw the original, but after watching that I'll be going back to rewatch it. Also, finally watching the 2002 show since I neglected to give it a chance when it came out.

This is more of a general complaint springing off of this show's mistakes, but I'm plain tired of shows getting continued, rebooted or newly created and being "fixed" or used as soapboxes first and foremost instead of opportunities to tell good stories, even wonderful stories. It feels like a lot of creatives just can't help themselves and would rather preach to their own choir and get imaginary points to own the people they hate so much than making something actually memorable and good. Thank god Venture Bros is the only (technical) reimagining Jonny Quest will ever get.
 
The Lawgiver said:
I knew something was gonnna be up with this when they got the original guy famous for voicing skeletor and cast him as fucking moss man instead of skeletor when he can still do the voice. People I've brought that shit up to were like "oh he's like 80 or 90 years old how do you expect them to have him voice skeletor" but they don't know about the fact he's fucking cast as mossman and doing a voice there too or the countless times he's done the skeletor voice at appearances or on social media shit. Instead we got mark hamill doing the joker voice when they could have more than likely gotten him to do the skeletor voice considering he's clearly got more range than just "joker" It's like they just were like "ok mark do the joker voice that's how everyone knows it's you" or some shit lmao.
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I agree Alan Oppenheimer despite his age can surprisingly still do a good Skeletor I remember seeing a video from like two years ago of him doing the skeletor voice and he clearly could still do it good. The fact that he is 90 something and can do Mossman. Shows he can still do voice work. Say what you want, but Star Wars Rebels actually got James Earl Jones to voice Darth Vader in season 2 who was in his mid 80s at the time. So yeah there is no excuse.
 
Tasty Tatty said:
Evil Lyn was perhaps the most memorable sidekick of Skeletor, so this "in the shadows" bs is just that: bs. I mean, she is a sidekick after all, an ally, minion, whatever. She's supposed to be less prominent than the actual villain, but she's still the one people remember the most. I think even more than Teela.

This "upgrade" is making me fear for another "Catradora", with all the bad things that would involve. And in context, it's funny that these so-called feminist producers end up reducing female characters to be romantic interests. The only difference is that they aren't romantic interests for men, only for each other. But that's it: they are still reduced to be only that.
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Why can’t female characters just be independent?
 
FreedomMussel said:
Why can’t female characters just be independent?
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This is what happens when write to inject ideologies and identity politics rather than for quality. You get ham fisted preaching that reduces the characters to being glorified soapboxes for the writers rather than fully fleshed out personalities.

To use the earlier example with Avatar, Zuko, Katara, and Azula were darn near PERFECTLY built up to that last fight and confrontation and it played out in a way that was true to the characters that had been built up to that point. The change in Zuko, the fall of Azula, and Katara displaying her skills and intelligence while also confirming she had fully forgiven Zuko...and it was all great.

And guess what? By doing it the way they did, three people of color, two of them women, were well written and memorable. Not a while male in sight, and yet everything played out beautifully. Imagine that.
 
FreedomMussel said:
Why can’t female characters just be independent?
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Because, to be honest, most people like their characters to have any romantic pair. And there is nothing wrong with that on itself.

The problem is that, first, He-Man isn't a show for grownups but for kids, specially boys. Kids that young are not remotely interested on He-Man having a girlfriend, they want him to defeat villains, save the day, and being heroic. Girls, being a bit more emotionally mature than boys that age, are more accepting of romance in story, that's why She-Ra had that one pirate as a love interest that only showed up once in a while.

Now, when a story doesn't have romantic pairing, shipping starts. We know that shipping shows up even if you have a canonical pair, but not having any encourages them even more. And we know shippers are obsessive people who bully others until they get their way. And that they are also very mediocre because writing romance is as basic as writing can be: there is really not a big plot, no mystery, no adventure... only cringe words told from one character to each other that lead to mediocre sex scenes.

So, what happens when all of these shippers grow up? They get hired by mainstream media to write actual TV. People who grew up writing about Hermione and Draco being a perfect couple (despite he wanted to killed her because he hated her that much) are now in charge of media that's even for kids, bringing with them all their toxic ideas about sex and romance. And because they likely attended liberal-progressive college, the characters are now gay.
 
I find that classic Sword and Sorcery stories and characters in particular are a general target for the progressive crowd. It's usually a simple enough premise, half naked chad swings a big weapon and kills a monster or a bunch of savages to save a half naked woman and then he claims her as his own and they ride off together. Alternatively you just look at most of Frank Frazetta's works since majority of this paintings capture the essence of the genre.

Problem is from that premise alone these types of people can find about a dozen different "problematic" themes ranging from toxic masculinity, male gaze, outdated gender roles, etc. So they take it upon themselves to "fix" it and well the results speak for themselves. Like when Leah Williams decided on her own that Dejah Thoris a character created in the early 1900s who is the main love interest and eventual wife of John Carter apparently likes women too even though nothing in her 100+ year history as a character even remotely suggested this. Because as we all know, changing an established character's sexuality is perfectly okay as long as the character is straight.

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I read “Iron Lords of Jupiter” in a Dungeon magazine from twenty years ago and it stated that you can easily update planetary romance to (then) modern times by having a heroine rescuing princes.

Again, this was written twenty years ago as a love letter to planetary romance. Fans of the genre have known for decades that the original stories were behind the times and wrote new stories updated for the times thru small tweaks. They didn’t despise the genre and desire to tear down the foundations.
 
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