Hazbin Hotel / Helluva Boss Thread - Now a Griefing Thread

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Do you believe that this series will turn to shit?


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Okay, so I finally got to see all the leaked storyboards. I will give my honest thoughts:

Pros: I liked the fight scene between Blitzø and Alessio. It will probably be cool looking when it's animated. That is all.

Cons: Crimson getting away, AGAIN. Why can't they just kill off a villain? For good? And I'm not talking about background or one off characters. It's especially annoying when by all means, they should have died. You had all the intent to murder him. So do it. Don't just leave so he has a chance to escape.

-Blitzø's and Vassagio's conversation. I know I don't have the full context of everything that happened before, but their whole exchange seems forced and unrealistic for some reason. Then again, this show's dialogue has never been written that well to begin with.

-Vassagio in general. Again, I don't have the full context, but he just feels like a very unnecessary character. His entire existence seems to be "good guy who likes Stolas" making him a nothing burger in the whole thing. Also, I don't like his random Spanish words added into every other sentence. This is not how bilingual people are. Hell, Vassago shouldn't be Hispanic in the first place. He's an ars goetia demon. They don't have human ethnicities.

-Repeating character moment. I get it. Blitzø really does appreciate Moxxie as a person, but doesn't want to show it. I GET IT. This has been addressed in season 1 and was supposedly fixed then as well. But whatever. We can't have our characters actually grow in a serialized story show because it's still trying but failing to be an episodic dark comedy.
I just saw the story board today and fully agree with everything you have said.

If this is a legit leak of what’s to come, I’m sure the fans will be disappointed because this is just repetition. Also, I saw someone mention that there is likely going to be a love triangle between the two birds and Blitz. I just can’t roll my eyes hard enough.
 
Also, I saw someone mention that there is likely going to be a love triangle between the two birds and Blitz. I just can’t roll my eyes hard enough.
God, I hope this happens because the fandom's reaction will be out of this world. They got upset when Blitzø slept with Chaz. They got upset when Stolas made out with a random incubus. Now after getting some sort of closure with these two, shoving Vassagio in the middle of it for more drama will cause all the Stolitz shippers to flip. This will be even better than the Miraculous' love square.
 
Second, how can angels even differentiate species like Hellborn and Sinners? There's no visual indication at all in the show of any kind of differentiation. Do they have thermal optics in their visors that let them see? Why wasn't that established?
I feel weird for defending this but there has been fairly decent visual indicators for most of it.

Imps, hell hounds, and the owls are all hellborn. The princes are the closest that straddle the line visually but each has a fairly unique appearance.

The only thing I'm unsure of with this are succubus. They are shown on multiple rings so in theory that should have them be hell born.
 
@InJailOutSoon

He's also apparently influenced by Viv's only ex, so that explains why this man who has been here since the beginning of existence acts like a frat boy caricature

To paraphrase Charlie when she meets with Adam&Lute for the first time: You're my mom's ex...ohhhh that makes soooo much sense.

Indeed.

You bring up a lot of good points here.

Tbh, I think the problem is narrative density,due to Amazon/VivziePop really "needing" these uber-talented Broadway singers (I have posted some fan covers in an earlier comment, Polish and Dutch, which I find to be just as good, vocally) who cost a fortune.
Leading to a season having just 8 episodes instead of i.e twice as much. Enough to tell a more detailed, fleshed out story. If I was in charge, I would also just forgo Helluvaboss and concentrate on HH.

Then again, the merch sells so who cares, right?
 
God, I hope this happens because the fandom's reaction will be out of this world. They got upset when Blitzø slept with Chaz. They got upset when Stolas made out with a random incubus. Now after getting some sort of closure with these two, shoving Vassagio in the middle of it for more drama will cause all the Stolitz shippers to flip. This will be even better than the Miraculous' love square.
The drama will definitely be entertaining and funny! But the love triangle is just so cliche. I wouldn’t be surprised if it does happen, though.
 
I’m 99.9% sure none of these people have actually had a real friendship, so those types of concepts just don’t compute.
To be fair creating a real friendship takes hard work and time. That's something people in Viv's age range avoid like the plague.
 
First of all, why would Heaven even care what Lucifer wants?
Later in the show it is revealed a vague "deal" had been made with his wife, Lilith. She disappeared from Hell at the same time the exterminations started.

Nobody knows what it is yet, but it has been the closing teaser two seasons running now. Something happened with Lilith, and now she's in Heaven and refuses to speak to Lucifer or her daughter, Charlie. Season 2 ends with her calling Charlie's cell phone so it'll probably be revealed in S3.

Second, how can angels even differentiate species like Hellborn and Sinners? There's no visual indication at all in the show of any kind of differentiation.
This is one of those weird things where if you don't watch both shows, you're right, you'll never know this. This happens a lot in HH, where the full explanation is only learned if you watch HB and also read the wiki/Viv tweets.

Hellborn species are all clearly defined in HB. Imps are all red with horns, succubi all have a distinct succubi appearance, etc. It is actually very easy to tell the difference, because sinners all look different except for them not looking like Hellborn. You'd never know this in HH because all the world building takes place in HB. The only hellborn ever seen in HH is imps like... two or three times in the background, otherwise entirely contained in HB. Pretty much every character in HH is a sinner other than Lucifer, Charlie, and Vaggie.

Also, hellborn can travel to other rings of Hell, while sinners can't, so presumably all the hellborn that live/work in Pride just fuck off to other rings for the day.

Third, why wouldn't you go after the hellborn species and overlords?
Overlords and hellborn are completely separate. Overlords are just powerful sinners. It is implied they do target overlords, that's why they hide in fortified buildings during the extermination. It isn't that they ignore overlords, they just can't get to them, and it is much easier to just kill huge swaths undefended, un-barricaded regular sinners instead. You'll see in the S1 finale that overlords have powers that can rival the exorcists, which is another reason.

As for why not target hellborn: why would they? Exterminations happen because of sinner overpopulation in Pride, so they only target Pride (Lucifer's ring), and he lets them do it. No need/reason to pick a fight with the other rings of Hell.
 
"....and also read the wiki/Viv tweets."

Sperg: So it's like with the hadiths in islam where you need them to understand the cryptic verses of the Quran? I need to comb through VivziePop drama/autism to understand the story?


Sorry if late and gay and OT but: what is your opinion on the HH on Broadway show?
 
Third, why wouldn't you go after the hellborn species and overlords? Wouldn't that make strategic sense to eliminate the higher powers that could potentially form rebellions if that's what Heaven really fears from Hell? The solution is so fucking simple, just make them immortal. Just make them kill the sinners because they don't want the overlords to accrue an army or whatever.
Setting aside why hellborn were spared (that's due to Lucifer wanting to protect Charlie, though you've already questioned the reason why Heaven cares about Lucifer's opinion at all) the only explanation for not targeting the overlords I can really give is that Adam is in it for the thrill of killing sinners en masse, not for actually protecting Heaven and Sera left the actual decision making to him despite a five minute conversation with the man showing anyone why that's a terrible idea. Targeting overlords makes much more sense from both a practical (the overlords are way more powerful than the normal sinners, if anyone was going to actually pose a threat to Heaven it'd be them), moral (all overlords are by definition active slave owners, and most of them have numerous other evils that they're actively engaging in; they also aren't really suffering much in Hell), and propagandistic (if you specifically targeted overlords most of Hell would probably support the exterminations too; at the very least there'd be no reason whatsoever to bother hiding the whole thing from the rest of Heaven) perspective.
 
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"....and also read the wiki/Viv tweets."

Sperg: So it's like with the hadiths in islam where you need them to understand the cryptic verses of the Quran? I need to comb through VivziePop drama/autism to understand the story?
Oh God yes, absolutely. Viv is absolutely terrible about this. Major plot points come out in Tweets/interviews all the time.

One of the most prominent examples: in HB's "Mastermind" episode, Satan himself makes a comment about how he "ruled the endless dark since long before [Lucifer's] fall". Of course, this is a major shake-up of the lore because it implies there was a Hell before Lucifer, which at the time, contradicted the lore in HH.

...And then Viv Tweets out after the episode airs that nah, actually, Lucifer is absent at that moment so Satan just wants to stroke his own ego and make shit up. That's a lie Satan told just for the lols.

Even better: Viv later set her Twitter to private and moved to fucking Bluesky, so that Tweet isn't even live now and you have to rely on the fan wiki to even know this happened at all.

Sorry if late and gay and OT but: what is your opinion on the HH on Broadway show?
Personally haven't watched it other than clips. Fun if you're into that sort of thing, I guess.
 
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This is one of those weird things where if you don't watch both shows, you're right, you'll never know this. This happens a lot in HH, where the full explanation is only learned if you watch HB and also read the wiki/Viv tweets.

Hellborn species are all clearly defined in HB. Imps are all red with horns, succubi all have a distinct succubi appearance, etc. It is actually very easy to tell the difference, because sinners all look different except for them not looking like Hellborn. You'd never know this in HH because all the world building takes place in HB. The only hellborn ever seen in HH is imps like... two or three times in the background, otherwise entirely contained in HB. Pretty much every character in HH is a sinner other than Lucifer, Charlie, and Vaggie.

Also, hellborn can travel to other rings of Hell, while sinners can't, so presumably all the hellborn that live/work in Pride just fuck off to other rings for the day.
Yeah I didn't watch Helluva Boss so unfortunately the different appearances alluded.

I think also applying biblical logic is the wrong way to go about it because I'm going off of what I know from the bible and the bible's attitude towards Hell and sinners. My interpretation was that the overlords were like mega-demons that Lucifer appointed to help run his little shithole, but I guess that's not how it works in Vivienne's mythos. Hence why I was so confused.
 
Yeah I didn't watch Helluva Boss so unfortunately the different appearances alluded.

I think also applying biblical logic is the wrong way to go about it because I'm going off of what I know from the bible and the bible's attitude towards Hell and sinners. My interpretation was that the overlords were like mega-demons that Lucifer appointed to help run his little shithole, but I guess that's not how it works in Vivienne's mythos. Hence why I was so confused.
The Deadly Sins (Satan for Wrath, Lucifer himself for Pride, Asmodeus for Lust, Mammon for Greed, I don't remember the others) are basically that. Overlords are sinners who managed to get a bunch of people (anyone? the numbers required aren't clear) to sell their souls to them and this gives them a bunch of demonic power in addition to all the advantages offered by having people who you can order to do literally anything you want within the limits of the contract you both signed and they genuinely are magically compelled to obey you. They basically run the Pride Ring like mob bosses because Lucifer can't be assed to do it because he thinks sinners are a bunch of losers who suck too much to bother with (which while I have issues with some of Lucifer's characterization, I actually like; it fits with him embodying pride while being different from how pride usually gets portrayed).
 
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I think also applying biblical logic is the wrong way to go about it because I'm going off of what I know from the bible and the bible's attitude towards Hell and sinners.
Yeah, can't do that. Viv has been very open that this is a different, open, version of biblical lore and is not tied to any particular religion. In fact, she intentionally avoids any specific religious interpretation of anything.

The Deadly Sins (Satan for Wrath, Lucifer himself for Pride, Asmodeus for Lust, Mammon for Greed, I don't remember the others)
  • Pride: Lucifer
  • Wrath: Satan
  • Lust: Asmodeus
  • Greed: Mammon
  • Gluttony: Beelzebub
  • Envy: Leviathan
  • Sloth: Belphegor
The last two haven't had any lines yet, but had an appearance in Mastermind. I strongly suspect we'll see both in an active role in S3 to round out the cast.

Fan theory is that the other sins are also fallen angels (because why else would they exist?), but there is absolutely nothing that currently supports that in show/Viv/Twitter/wiki lore.
 
I'm just gonna start posting these without comment, because I'm running out of witty remarks and :story: emotes.
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The only hellborn ever seen in HH is imps
Charlie's pet KeeKee (she's the key in the intro), Charlie's minions Razzle and Dazzle (Lute killed Dazzle in the season 1 finale), Angel Dust's pet Fat Nuggets, probably Rosie, Vox's pet Shok.wav, and Sir Pentious' minions The Egg Boiz. And that's all the HH hellborn I can think of off the top of my head.
 
Charlie's pet KeeKee (she's the key in the intro), Charlie's minions Razzle and Dazzle (Lute killed Dazzle in the season 1 finale), Angel Dust's pet Fat Nuggets, probably Rosie, Vox's pet Shok.wav, and Sir Pentious' minions The Egg Boiz. And that's all the HH hellborn I can think of off the top of my head.
Oh true, I suppose the pets all count. Forgot about those.
 
People here are saying that you can tell the difference between all hellborn and Sinners, but then you have the shark demons who you can only really differentiate who's what by their eyes.
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What I'm getting at is that it sucks to be a shark down here.
 
Later in the show it is revealed a vague "deal" had been made with his wife, Lilith. She disappeared from Hell at the same time the exterminations started.

Nobody knows what it is yet, but it has been the closing teaser two seasons running now. Something happened with Lilith, and now she's in Heaven and refuses to speak to Lucifer or her daughter, Charlie. Season 2 ends with her calling Charlie's cell phone so it'll probably be revealed in S3.
Yet, why is she calling the shots? Adam was simping? Gay, if so.
This is one of those weird things where if you don't watch both shows, you're right, you'll never know this. This happens a lot in HH, where the full explanation is only learned if you watch HB and also read the wiki/Viv tweets.

Hellborn species are all clearly defined in HB. Imps are all red with horns, succubi all have a distinct succubi appearance, etc. It is actually very easy to tell the difference, because sinners all look different except for them not looking like Hellborn. You'd never know this in HH because all the world building takes place in HB. The only hellborn ever seen in HH is imps like... two or three times in the background, otherwise entirely contained in HB. Pretty much every character in HH is a sinner other than Lucifer, Charlie, and Vaggie.

Also, hellborn can travel to other rings of Hell, while sinners can't, so presumably all the hellborn that live/work in Pride just fuck off to other rings for the day.
It's so strange, to handicap the Overlords to Pride, while hellborn can go everywhere. It would be as if Elites are stuck to a particular city or country while commoners can go to whichever country they please. Also, why can the GeishaGoetia & Deadly Sins suddenly do the same?
Oh God yes, absolutely. Viv is absolutely terrible about this. Major plot points come out in Tweets/interviews all the time.

One of the most prominent examples: in HB's "Mastermind" episode, Satan himself makes a comment about how he "ruled the endless dark since long before [Lucifer's] fall". Of course, this is a major shake-up of the lore because it implies there was a Hell before Lucifer, which at the time, contradicted the lore in HH.

...And then Viv Tweets out after the episode airs that nah, actually, Lucifer is absent at that moment so Satan just wants to stroke his own ego and make shit up. That's a lie Satan told just for the lols.

Even better: Viv later set her Twitter to private and moved to fucking Bluesky, so that Tweet isn't even live now and you have to rely on the fan wiki to even know this happened at all.
I guess in her defense: this could have been much better executed, and thus rendered Satanley a liar. Thus, worked in the team's favour.
 
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