Hazbin Hotel / Helluva Boss Thread - Now a Griefing Thread

  • Want to keep track of this thread?
    Accounts can bookmark posts, watch threads for updates, and jump back to where you stopped reading.
    Create account

Do you believe that this series will turn to shit?

  • Total voters
    3,162
Smity Werbenjagermanjensen said:
Viv apparently mentioned somewhere that Baxter would have had more focus on serving as the red herring on being the spy for Vox if they got more episodes, but the final result is he has a grand total of one scene of relevance before the final few minutes of penultimate episode, and the only sign of there being a spy in the first place is Vox knowing Lucifer can't hurt Sinners in the same pair of episodes where it's revealed Angel was the spy, so that whole plotline is pretty vestigial.
Click to expand...
Baxter always felt like he would have fit better back in season 1 before redemption was known to be possible, since his whole reason for joining the hotel in the first place was to study redemption and prove that it was impossible. Would have been a nice contrast to Charlie's total emotional based faith to his logical reasoning. The whole concept of someone who has been sentenced to Hell for an eternity being redeemed should have been challenged earlier on; not after when the chatacters know that it is possible.

Then again, this was when the show was going to be a more episodic slow-burn that had at least one episode focused on each of the main cast instead of speed running to a Heaven vs Hell war-plot, but I digress.
 
InJailOutSoon said:
Baxter always felt like he would have fit better back in season 1 before redemption was known to be possible, since his whole reason for joining the hotel in the first place was to study redemption and prove that it was impossible. Would have been a nice contrast to Charlie's total emotional based faith to his logical reasoning. The whole concept of someone who has been sentenced to Hell for an eternity being redeemed should have been challenged earlier on; not after when the chatacters know that it is possible.

Then again, this was when the show was going to be a more episodic slow-burn that had at least one episode focused on each of the main cast instead of speed running to a Heaven vs Hell war-plot, but I digress.
Click to expand...
Thanks partly due to his lack of screentime, his reason of being there doesn't affect his development at all, which is piss poor anyways, as it's never brought up again. Ideally while the rest of the hotel will believe or at most only show minor skepticism towards Charlie's claim that Pentious got redeemed, Baxter is extremely vocal in his belief that Charlie is lying, perhaps only tempering his criticism by theorizing that she hallucinated the whole encounter with Emily in the midst of an emotional breakdown so it's not a lie of malice. This vocal disbelief will be used to Vox's advantage, providing more focus on the whole red herring spy plotline, and Baxter only turns a corner when Emily shows up at the end of episode 7 and he shows a significant reaction when Pentious finally gets the broadcast working.

I will give that these sorts of issues are more the fault of the restrictive runtime than they were in S1, which was obviously two seasons worth of material haphazardly crammed together which should have been kept as such, instead of feeling like it needed an extra episode or two here.
 
Smity Werbenjagermanjensen said:
Thanks partly due to his lack of screentime, his reason of being there doesn't affect his development at all, which is piss poor anyways, as it's never brought up again. Ideally while the rest of the hotel will believe or at most only show minor skepticism towards Charlie's claim that Pentious got redeemed, Baxter is extremely vocal in his belief that Charlie is lying, perhaps only tempering his criticism by theorizing that she hallucinated the whole encounter with Emily in the midst of an emotional breakdown so it's not a lie of malice. This vocal disbelief will be used to Vox's advantage, providing more focus on the whole red herring spy plotline, and Baxter only turns a corner when Emily shows up at the end of episode 7 and he shows a significant reaction when Pentious finally gets the broadcast working.

I will give that these sorts of issues are more the fault of the restrictive runtime than they were in S1, which was obviously two seasons worth of material haphazardly crammed together which should have been kept as such, instead of feeling like it needed an extra episode or two here.
Click to expand...
They could have cut out some of the more unnecessary parts though; like the news reporter bit of him killing his wife. Wasn't really that funny the first time he said it, so I doubt it will be funnier the fourth time. But that's with a lot of scenes this season, where I feel like that drag on just a bit too long and a whole bunch of nothing happens.
 
HexagonalSonOfYakub said:
Wasn't the ''''official'''' (read: said on either the podcast or on Viv's twitter) explanation of 'why there are no nazis in pride ring' that the evil heckin' chud souls were simply vanished from existence after death?
Click to expand...
Like with power scaling, some author statements are so retarded (Goes against what's shown in the story proper before and after the statement was made) you can ignore them and act like they don't exist. I think the idea of anyone being too evil to go to hell goes against the show's entire thesis statement of redeeming sinners to begin with. Because for that to be true that means every sinner in hell is the same amount of evil. Which is just not the case at all.
 
HexagonalSonOfYakub said:
Wasn't the ''''official'''' (read: said on either the podcast or on Viv's twitter) explanation of 'why there are no nazis in pride ring' that the evil heckin' chud souls were simply vanished from existence after death?
Click to expand...
It's so easy to come up with a less retarded explanation too; maybe the other Sinners just merced the nazis as they spawned into Pride – I'm sure there were plenty of Soviets landing in Hell that were eager to keep fucking up the krauts in the afterlife.
or hell, maybe Alastor went on a little power trip and it's the Reich's leadership whose screams he plays on his broadcast – I mean, even without the Exterminations, the implication is that there are clearly other ways to keep a Sinner permanently out of commission!
but no, magical forcefield that disintegrates your very soul if you're a bit too chuddy for Hell.
 
Kid Named Rocket said:
It's so easy to come up with a less retarded explanation too; maybe the other Sinners just merced the nazis as they spawned into Pride – I'm sure there were plenty of Soviets landing in Hell that were eager to keep fucking up the krauts in the afterlife.
or hell, maybe Alastor went on a little power trip and it's the Reich's leadership whose screams he plays on his broadcast – I mean, even without the Exterminations, the implication is that there are clearly other ways to keep a Sinner permanently out of commission!
but no, magical forcefield that disintegrates your very soul if you're a bit too chuddy for Hell.
Click to expand...
We still don't know what happens to sinners who get killed by other sinners, I'd wager they get reincarnated somewhere else in Hell as it would make the most sense for a place of suffering, an endless cycle of violence.
 
make_it_so said:
Yep. But cannibals and serial killers are okay.
Click to expand...

FK009 said:
And rapists and sex traffickers, can’t forget the rapists and sex traffickers being okay (so long as it’s guy on guy.)
Click to expand...

Kid Named Rocket said:
It's so easy to come up with a less retarded explanation too; maybe the other Sinners just merced the nazis as they spawned into Pride – I'm sure there were plenty of Soviets landing in Hell that were eager to keep fucking up the krauts in the afterlife.
or hell, maybe Alastor went on a little power trip and it's the Reich's leadership whose screams he plays on his broadcast – I mean, even without the Exterminations, the implication is that there are clearly other ways to keep a Sinner permanently out of commission!
but no, magical forcefield that disintegrates your very soul if you're a bit too chuddy for Hell.
Click to expand...
I find it amusing that if this statement is canon at all, it implies that in universe it is objectively 'less evil' to be a bigot since you skip out on eternal damnation. You can go to hell for the simple crime of passion of murdering your blatantly cheating husband and feeling guilt for doing so, making you viable to get stuck with the scum of the earth in the afterlife but ruh-roh, little Ernst conscripted to the german army during WW2, some /pol/sperg with an AR15 on his crusade to ethnically cleance his nearest Walmart or the single most vile person in the history of humanity thought badly of jews, minorities, commies and/or trannies when they croaked and poof. They're gone, they get lifted of all consequence of mortal life while you toil away with all other queers, rapists and all matter of degenerates and sodomites in Pride Ring for all eternity.
Again, what did Viv mean by this??? :thinking:
 
I finally watched S2, it was notably worse than S1 imo.

  • The fight between Alastor and Vox was pretty cool
  • Seeing the pre-mortem backgrounds of some of the characters was neat, despite Alastor being a literal dead gay nigga
  • There was more screentime for Emily, though unfortunately not much character development

This is of course ignoring the baseline cringe that comes with a series written by an OG tumblrette and produced by A24.
  • Vox isn't my favorite character (he's cringe and cliché imo), and him being the focal point of this season was a major red flag from the outset
  • The new characters all sucked (Abel was annoying and uninteresting, Baxter was "literally who" up until he was suddenly incredibly important for some reason, the Speaker was cool but wasn't explored enough)
  • The songs were markedly worse (Gravity and Don't You Forget (part 1) were the only highlights for me) and very few of them actually progressed the story. I wanted to like Niffty's song because I like her character but I think I'm just allergic to anime, and way too many songs were sung by Vox
  • The concept of Vox twisting words to manipulate people was explained to the audience like five different times, it's not a difficult concept to understand
  • Alastor was basically absent for the first half of the season despite being one of the most interesting characters
  • I wish they hadn't written Alastor to be beholden to Rosie, it didn't add to the plot and felt out of place for her character
  • Lucifer was cringe and useless for the ENTIRE season despite being one of the other most interesting characters
  • Charlie's big arc was that she... had a fight with her girlfriend, which was resolved like ten minutes later with a mediocre musical number
  • Husk's arc where he randomly ragequit the Hotel was just an excuse to shoehorn in two bad songs
  • Husk had no reaction to Alastor being enslaved by Vox, and it's ambiguous as to whether he's independent now? He said he's free to leave the Hotel and go back to being a degenerate gambler now that Alastor is gone, but there's no actual explanation as to why that would be the case
  • Alastor being free of Rosie due to Charlie calling Vox the most powerful demon in Hell makes no sense to me..? The deal wasn't that he'd only be indebted to her as long as he remains the most powerful demon, just that she'd make him the most powerful demon when he died, which she did. Sloppy writing imo, the whole soul ownership thing in general isn't explained well considering how important it is to the plot
  • Angel is said to be freed from Val during the finale... again, why??
  • Lute's season-long revenge side-plot being stopped in its place by Abel saying "fall back" one single time was retarded
  • The whole thing with broadcasting to/from Heaven was convoluted and poorly explained, there's literally no reason Pentious couldn't have just gone through a portal like Emily did. Seemed to just exist to give Baxter a reason for being in the show, which... why did he even need to be in it in the first place?
  • The "wordplay" plot point with Alastor's agreement with Vox was extremely predictable, but I was holding out hope that they weren't going to actually go that route
  • The entire finale felt rushed and sloppy
  • Was the awkward conversation between Pentious and Cherri broadcasted to everyone??
  • There was zero reason for Rosie to sell her soul to Alastor, it felt like that was added just so they had another plot point for S3
  • There was zero worldbuilding this season (this is a big one to me personally)
  • The animation was noticeably worse at times, like it randomly reverted to the jankiness of the pilot

So ya, if S1 was a B+ then S2 was probably a C or C+.
 
Niggerphobe said:
What’s the longest a Viv production has gone without any swears
Click to expand...

Kid Named Rocket said:
It's so easy to come up with a less retarded explanation too; maybe the other Sinners just merced the nazis as they spawned into Pride – I'm sure there were plenty of Soviets landing in Hell that were eager to keep fucking up the krauts in the afterlife.
or hell, maybe Alastor went on a little power trip and it's the Reich's leadership whose screams he plays on his broadcast – I mean, even without the Exterminations, the implication is that there are clearly other ways to keep a Sinner permanently out of commission!
but no, magical forcefield that disintegrates your very soul if you're a bit too chuddy for Hell.
Click to expand...
Hitler, Stalin, etc., could have been the first targets of the exterminations.

Or Viv could have simply said, "They're in Hell, but I don't want to write about them."

"Too evil for Hell" is simply stupid and childish. More proof neither Vivziepop nor the other writers know how to write adult themes and issues.
 
Kid Named Rocket said:
It's so easy to come up with a less retarded explanation too; maybe the other Sinners just merced the nazis as they spawned into Pride – I'm sure there were plenty of Soviets landing in Hell that were eager to keep fucking up the krauts in the afterlife.
or hell, maybe Alastor went on a little power trip and it's the Reich's leadership whose screams he plays on his broadcast – I mean, even without the Exterminations, the implication is that there are clearly other ways to keep a Sinner permanently out of commission!
but no, magical forcefield that disintegrates your very soul if you're a bit too chuddy for Hell.
Click to expand...
HexagonalSonOfYakub said:
I find it amusing that if this statement is canon at all, it implies that in universe it is objectively 'less evil' to be a bigot since you skip out on eternal damnation. You can go to hell for the simple crime of passion of murdering your blatantly cheating husband and feeling guilt for doing so, making you viable to get stuck with the scum of the earth in the afterlife but ruh-roh, little Ernst conscripted to the german army during WW2, some /pol/sperg with an AR15 on his crusade to ethnically cleance his nearest Walmart or the single most vile person in the history of humanity thought badly of jews, minorities, commies and/or trannies when they croaked and poof. They're gone, they get lifted of all consequence of mortal life while you toil away with all other queers, rapists and all matter of degenerates and sodomites in Pride Ring for all eternity.
Again, what did Viv mean by this??? :thinking:
Click to expand...
When it was believed that the exterminations has been going for a long time, most people believed that many of those Sinners died from them. Hence why we don't see many people in Hell before the 19th century. But then it's revealed that no, the exterminations have been going on for only 7 years, so there goes that reasonable theory.

The whole 7 year timeline just recontextualizes so many things in this show. Lute killing around 200 Sinners in the last extermination is considered a big number, and Vox even confirms that the exorcists have only killed thousands of Sinners, not millions. And now we can kind of see why, because the exorcists are not doing quick kills like we saw and were led to believe in Season 1; they're apparently doing slow executions, or at least that is what the pictures that Vox are showing in season 2.

But then Carmilla, who somehow was able to collect enough angelic steel to manufacture different angelic weapons to sell to other Sinners in the 7 years this has been happening, stated that there has been a 16% decrease of population back in season 1 and that it will affect the overlords in the room as they own millions of souls. But that brings up how the exorcists have caused such a decrease if they only killed thousands of Sinners and many more people come down to Hell when the die. Unless the count of people ending up in Hell is a lot less than what we originally thought. And this of course brings up the question of if Carmilla is so worried about the population of hell decreasing, why is she selling weapons that can permanently kill to people who are constantly killing each other? If anything, the Sinners are the main cause for why their are less of them.

And since the exterminations have been going on for 7 years, what has Lilith been protesting against? She seemingly dissappeared around the same time the exterminations have started. What is she inspiring the citizens of Hell to resist against? Heaven hasn't done shit to them. They aren't even sentencing people who have died to Hell to begin with, since they don't even know what gets someone into Heaven in the first place.
 
InJailOutSoon said:
But then it's revealed that no, the exterminations have been going on for only 7 years, so there goes that reasonable theory.
Click to expand...
InJailOutSoon said:
Lute killing around 200 Sinners in the last extermination is considered a big number, and Vox even confirms that the exorcists have only killed thousands of Sinners, not millions. And now we can kind of see why, because the exorcists are not doing quick kills like we saw and were led to believe in Season 1; they're apparently doing slow executions, or at least that is what the pictures that Vox are showing in season 2.
Click to expand...
InJailOutSoon said:
But that brings up how the exorcists have caused such a decrease if they only killed thousands of Sinners and many more people come down to Hell when the die. Unless the count of people ending up in Hell is a lot less than what we originally thought. And this of course brings up the question of if Carmilla is so worried about the population of hell decreasing, why is she selling weapons that can permanently kill to people who are constantly killing each other? If anything, the Sinners are the main cause for why their are less of them.
Click to expand...
InJailOutSoon said:
And since the exterminations have been going on for 7 years, what has Lilith been protesting against? She seemingly dissappeared around the same time the exterminations have started. What is she inspiring the citizens of Hell to resist against? Heaven hasn't done shit to them. They aren't even sentencing people who have died to Hell to begin with, since they don't even know what gets someone into Heaven in the first place.
Click to expand...
Are you fucking kidding me? :stress:
Why would you retcon so much like this? And when it breaks your story this way?:lossmanjack:
I don’t believe it.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom