Hazbin Hotel / Helluva Boss Thread - Now a Griefing Thread

  • Want to keep track of this thread?
    Accounts can bookmark posts, watch threads for updates, and jump back to where you stopped reading.
    Create account

Do you believe that this series will turn to shit?


  • Total voters
    3,162
I’ll admit, this got me.
1762347689352.png
"Look, Em, I know it's our job to help this guy and everything, but I think this guy's a lost cause."
>Katie reveals that the Exterminations have only been going on for seven years
...What? What? Fucking what?

If this has only been going on for seven years, why was it part of that children's storybook opening "The Story of Hell" that Charlie was reading to herself in episode 1 that implied it had been going on for ages? What was the point of that whole sequence (aside from bad exposition)? Why would Charlie ever think that the extermination was about curbing overpopulation if it only started within the last decade? And most importantly of all: Doesn't this contradict Lute's statement that an Exorcist being killed isn't something that's happened in over 2000 years?

This is once again a case where the fan authors are far smarter and more interesting than Vivzie herself, where it's often implied or stated that the annual purge is the result of a peace treaty following an ancient war between Heaven and Hell (which one might even find evidence for/reference to in passages of the Bible or in the various epics and creation myths of other religions), or something that was forced upon Hell in response to Charlie's birth.

Making it something that only started within the last decade for apparently no reason and with zero pushback from Hell - and coincidentally happening at the exact same time that Lilith disappeared - only serves to make Lucifer look like a weak-ass cuck of a leader, and Charlie to look like a complete and total imbecile.
So all the sex and drugs didn't send him to Hell?
Substance abuse and meaningless sex probably don't count as sins in the eyes of a Millennial like Vivzie.
 
This show seems to treat it like everyone has one big moment of sin they're centered on. Probably because its less abstract, than years of chemical dependence and meaningless sex.
Substance abuse and meaningless sex probably don't count as sins in the eyes of a Millennial like Vivzie.
He started doing drugs and sex IN HELL tho
Just seems odd that the character known for loving sex and drugs wasn't sent to Hell for loving sex and drugs.

For fuck's sake, even Futurama understands that all of your sins are judged in Hell.
 
only serves to make Lucifer look like a weak-ass cuck of a leader
The opening storybook made it clear that Lilith was the gaslight, gatekeep, girlboss of Hell who stuck Lucifer in the cuck chair the entire time she was in charge. Combined with her not even letting Charlie spend time with him, it's no wonder he's such a depressed bitchboi.
 
>Katie reveals that the Exterminations have only been going on for seven years
I don’t know why, but this really does take the bite out of exterminations and the urgency of the hotel. I don’t know why though. It’s like, that’s it? I’m out here thinking that this shit’s been going on for centuries if not millennia, that Charlie was born into it and witnessed it her entire life. While I think it’s stupid the hotel made sense as a sort of hope spot. But seven years? That seems like if I’m over 200, seven years is like a drop in the bucket, I probably wouldn’t even notice the change until year 4 and have just assumed someone in hell was causing slightly more grisly deaths than usual. BTW are exterminations on hold, if so, why is the hotel needed? Because the problem it was trying to solve was sinners dying, If the thing killing them isn’t a problem anymore, then the hotel is redundant.
>Angel's sin turns out to be that he killed his father
O-ok. And? I already assumed he killed people for the mob, I assumed his bodycount was above 0. Can it at least be actually bad? Like if his dad was like Nacho’s dad in BCS, that would be somewhat shocking, and horrible, choosing his gang affiliation over his family. Not that bad when there’s a town filled with people who eat other people, but I can suspend disbelief. My one worry is that this will be the pattern that the sin damning the guys we’re supposed to like are relatively minor or extremely excusable. It really does fly in the face of the whole redemption theme where redemption is more or less saying my bad. I get it the audience for this show are tweens and stupid people on twitter that don’t really think too much about things other than who’s fucking who, and they eat this shit up. They’re acting so shocked that the guy that murdered angels without a second thought murdered his dad. Can people just not think anymore?
>Alastor agrees to be Vox's prisoner in exchange for letting Niffty and Husk go as well as not harming Charlie
Here’s some free sage advice: if you hate a ship that a decent chunk of yours fans love, don’t add shit like this, they will be swarming like flies and sharks. But also, let me know if this entire scene was poorly done btw I would love specifics, how is it that if they thread the needle, fucking Alastor would be more in line with the theme of redemption? I know I’ve sperged about this before, but if these writers could just lock in, limit the cast, and use the episodes wisely, they can have something good here. While it’s far from good, Alastor is having a better redemption story than Angel or Pentious. And it’s because of one thing, He’s struggling. He is confronted that with good after embracing evil. He likes, well his slaves for one, but also his new friend. He knows that he can’t keep doing what he’s been doing and keep her around, so he fights it, a gnashes his teeth, quits his job like a druggy would when it gets in the way of him getting high, and tries to call in favors to get his shit back, and get beaten up by a rival gang, and when he’s at his lowest point and is more than able to likely sell his slaves down the River and leave Charlie to fend for herself, he choses to make a sacrifice. It’s extremely sloppy don’t get me wrong, and making such a weak loser takes out some of the gravitas, but there’s some logical order of events that makes sense that their just isn’t for the others. Its better than Pentious’s “One Big Gesture” after all we learn about him is that he’s a simp loser and then seeing him essentially loot Heaven, and Angel’s “Trauma”.
Just seems odd that the character known for loving sex and drugs wasn't sent to Hell for loving sex and drugs.
That’s because, to the writers, those sins aren’t sins. It’s normal to be a sex addict as sex feels good and it must be good. And the drugs is more because of society, so we need to be sympathetic towards his addiction, and not hold him to any sort of standard at all. It’s the main issue of writing redemption when there is no objective morality.
Edit: (Source: Atheistic and Liberal family members. To answer my one query from before. Catholic. As some of the other denominations may say, Papist. Born to a catholic and an atheist. No it does not work. You get to compare and contrast the two family sides. Atheist side is morally worse no contest.)
I’ll admit, this got me.
View attachment 8128417
"Look, Em, I know it's our job to help this guy and everything, but I think this guy's a lost cause."
Ironically this would exactly be why Pentious wouldn’t be let into Heaven. The thing about Heaven, it’s not a gilded cage. You are free to choose it or Hell. If Pentious doesn’t want to be there, why make him stay? Then again this assumes that when you use the bible as the basis of your world, God is real Good and Evil aren’t characters but definable concepts, and the devil is actually evil. If you're going to fanfic a religion, specifically Christianity, can you at least make it like Darksiders, Devil May Cry, or Doom where I get to kill demons or make the majority of them evil, with like 5 anomalies out of billions?
 
Last edited:
What? What? Fucking what?

If this has only been going on for seven years, why was it part of that children's storybook opening "The Story of Hell" that Charlie was reading to herself in episode 1 that implied it had been going on for ages? What was the point of that whole sequence (aside from bad exposition)? Why would Charlie ever think that the extermination was about curbing overpopulation if it only started within the last decade? And most importantly of all: Doesn't this contradict Lute's statement that an Exorcist being killed isn't something that's happened in over 2000 years?

This is once again a case where the fan authors are far smarter and more interesting than Vivzie herself, where it's often implied or stated that the annual purge is the result of a peace treaty following an ancient war between Heaven and Hell (which one might even find evidence for/reference to in passages of the Bible or in the various epics and creation myths of other religions), or something that was forced upon Hell in response to Charlie's birth.

Making it something that only started within the last decade for apparently no reason and with zero pushback from Hell - and coincidentally happening at the exact same time that Lilith disappeared - only serves to make Lucifer look like a weak-ass cuck of a leader, and Charlie to look like a complete and total imbecile.
This is what happens when you get rid of your script coordinator.

But yeah, I mentioned earlier that I did theorize that "Lilith" disappearing was the reason for why the exterminations started. But I didn't think it was ACTUALLY going to be canon. At the very least, I thought Charlie being born would have been the reason.

Sure, it does explain some things like how the exterminations were kept a secret from other angels, how no Sinner was able to kill a exorcist until recently, and the exorcists not being well-trained. But those answers don't cover the full "what-the-fuck-is-going-on" from this revelation. While I do think Sera should have put up the barrier around Heaven in the first place, her reasoning for starting the exterminations now doesn't come from pure paranoia, but a genuine response. Supposedly "Lilith", the woman who has been empowering Sinners, has somehow gotten into Heaven. She has a very legitimate reason for thinking an uprising is coming to Heaven and wants to nip that in the bud. She's not really in the wrong here. Yeah, I know the rest of Hell doesn't know this, but "Lilith" is to blame here. Which also makes me wonder how Lucifer wasn't able to put two-and-two together; his wife disappears and then Heaven comes down wanting him to sign a contract for the exterminations to start happening. Whatever. I guess he's depressed or something.

And Sera crying over all those "souls that could have been redeemed" is meaningless. It hasn't been centuries that Sinners have been getting slaughtered. It's only been 7 years. Do you really think that anything would have changed in those 7 years? If anything, the exterminations happening was why Sir Pentious was able to redeem himself in the first place, so it kind of made the exterminations a good thing. Though I don't think that is the lesson that Viv wants us to be taking from this.

And this also undermines Charlie too. In the season premiere she states that if redemption doesn't work, than her whole life has been a joke. If her age is still 200 in this timeline, than no; 7 years is so tiny and it makes me question what she was doing for the other 193 years. Of course, maybe Charlie here is way younger since we do see her as a child with what looks to be Eve who has replaced Lilith if this is to be the case....which then means that when Vaggie was created as some 20s age angel, Charlie was still a minor. Which...wow, this canon ship became really weird quick, no matter which way you put it.

Edit: This also means that Lute is technically 7 years old as well which...maybe I'm overthinking this all, but you tell me how you feel about this.
 
Last edited:
>Katie reveals that the Exterminations have only been going on for seven years

If this has only been going on for seven years, why was it part of that children's storybook opening "The Story of Hell" that Charlie was reading to herself in episode 1 that implied it had been going on for ages? What was the point of that whole sequence (aside from bad exposition)? Why would Charlie ever think that the extermination was about curbing overpopulation if it only started within the last decade? And most importantly of all: Doesn't this contradict Lute's statement that an Exorcist being killed isn't something that's happened in over 2000 years?
You can't even defend this retcon with "Katie is just lying because she works for Vox," not that it won't stop the rabid fanbase from trying.
 
let me know if this entire scene was poorly done btw I would love specifics, how is it that if they thread the needle, fucking Alastor would be more in line with the theme of redemption?
It's not portrayed as if he made the deal because he actually cares about them. Rather, he wants out of his deal with Rosie, as she promised to make him the strongest Sinner in Hell, but refuses to fix his staff. He likely wants to help Vox surpass him in strength, rendering his deal with her void, then use his deal with Charlie to cancel out his deal with Vox.
 
It's not portrayed as if he made the deal because he actually cares about them. Rather, he wants out of his deal with Rosie, as she promised to make him the strongest Sinner in Hell, but refuses to fix his staff. He likely wants to help Vox surpass him in strength, rendering his deal with her void, then use his deal with Charlie to cancel out his deal with Vox.
Okay this is more in line with the shit writing I’ve come to expect. Shame on me for expecting something relevant to the pitched theme of the show, but I’ll hold judgement until we get some form of reveal for his motives, because you never know with a show like this.
Edit: When I say you never know, I mean this in a way that is more “there’s no real logic here, so who knows what the motives and reasons are, and at this point, who cares?” Or as @Vyse Inglebard put it, the writers ain’t even trying to hide it at this point.
 
Okay this is more in line with the shit writing I’ve come to expect. Shame on me for expecting something relevant to the pitched theme of the show, but I’ll hold judgement until we get some form of reveal for his motives, because you never know with a show like this.
Vivzie probably doesn't give a shit about redemption. Like with Helluva, she's probably gonna drop the core concept in favor of gay ship drama and strawmanning against the evil fucking Rethuglican Christchuds.
 
strawmanning against the evil fucking Rethuglican Christchuds.
She can’t even do that right, because she won’t touch the cornerstones of the faith. Instead we get personified Good and Evil. then again, maybe it is about the straw man, it doesn’t need to be accurate logical or the thing that their straw-manning even existing, it just needs to reach enough kids and terminally online people to mess them up.
 
Another thing I don't believe. Why does a chick as hot as Stella not have a boyfriend?

What the fuck? Is she just so busy being totally evil every day that nobody is attracted to her?

She's literally one of the most attractive characters in the show, and somehow, does nothing but evil.
 
Another thing I don't believe. Why does a chick as hot as Stella not have a boyfriend?

What the fuck? Is she just so busy being totally evil every day that nobody is attracted to her?

She's literally one of the most attractive characters in the show, and somehow, does nothing but evil.
Vivziepop hates straight women. Hence why they're (almost) always villains.
 
Another thing I don't believe. Why does a chick as hot as Stella not have a boyfriend?

What the fuck? Is she just so busy being totally evil every day that nobody is attracted to her?

She's literally one of the most attractive characters in the show, and somehow, does nothing but evil.
I wouldn’t say attractive, more aesthetically pleasing because cartoon bird, but I get what you’re trying to say.

A competent writer would cover that early on and say because she has the actual oven for the bun to go into, she cannot have external marital affairs because her one duty is to sire Stolas’s children specifically. The one with the power and the throne is stolas, and because blood is what matters above all else, the kids need to be his. A boyfriend, lover, or concubine would muddy those waters and cause issues for succession as far as Stella is concerned. While stolas doing the same would also cause issues, any bastards produced are at least his, and have sense of ‘incase bomb kills entire goetia line, break glass’ use case that Stella’s bastards just wouldn’t.

As for reality. No one thought that far ahead, because her existence revolves around tormenting Stolas.
 
Last edited:
Saw the new episodes

Unintentionally Hilarious bits:

Charlie basically being a lolcow for Hell and acting mega retarded

Alastor getting his shit kicked in while doing his best to act tough

Actual Pros:

- Liked the songs in Episode 4

- Pacing continues to be much better than season 1

- Vox, Rosie, and Nifty are the most enjoyable characters

- Alastor backstory is pretty good

- Viv continues to show that she really should stick to action because the fights are surprisingly good.

Cons:

- Revelation that the exterminations lasted seven years while it addresses some plot holes only opens up other questions

- Charlie is honestly pretty annoying sometimes

- The Katie Killjoy scenes were cringe, Brandon Rogers really is better off playing a different character

- Valentino continues to be a pretty tone deaf character because the show still can't really balance his serious and funny side well.

Overall the show is honestly a guilty pleasure of mine but it's heavily flawed.
 
Back
Top Bottom